In this episode of Fearless Females, host Lorie Jones sits down with Sarah Goodman, the trailblazer president and managing partner of Eminence M&A Strategies, to uncover the secrets of her success in a male-dominated industry.
From conquering stereotypes to mastering the elusive work–life balance, Sarah’s story is a must-hear for any woman ready to shatter glass ceilings and claim her seat at the table. Discover how embracing the twists and turns of your career path can lead to extraordinary growth, and learn why betting on yourself is always a winning strategy.
Tune in now and let Sarah’s journey ignite the fearless female leader within you!
Show Highlights:
- Discover this fearless non-traditional career in finance. [00:04:27]
- A shocking truth about Fortune 100 C-suite execs. [00:09:49]
- The power of executive coaching to unlock careers. [00:13:36]
- How to find the right coach for yourself. [00:16:26]
- Tips to persist with intent in novel approaches to work. [00:19:41]
- Strategies to create work–life balance as a mother. [00:24:06]
- The absolute skill primer for young professionals. [00:32:11]
- Why bet on yourself to kill unproductive fear? [00:35:16]
- Explore the challenges women in investment banking face. [00:41:32]
Learn about Sarah Goodman at https://www.eminencestrategies.com/about.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to http://fearless-females.com/
00:00.16
loriejones7
So thanks so much for joining us this morning I'm so excited. We're talking to Sarah Goodman Today she is the president and managing partner of eminence m and a strategies and I've been looking forward to speaking to her. For weeks. So I'm excited to chat with you today. Sarah thank you so much for spending some time with us.
00:20.79
Sarah Goodman
Thank you so much for having me I'm super excited to be in the the roster of fearless females.
00:28.29
loriejones7
Yeah I'm and I'm excited to get to know you just a little bit better. My very first question always is I'm ah I actually have um I ask this question all the time. So my book list on the side of my desk has gotten even bigger than it was before. But. What is your favorite book. Tell me what I should be reading.
00:48.86
Sarah Goodman
Oh my goodness Such a hard question. Um I am gonna I had a go to that. Um is a new go to for me I've got some favorites that but I feel like lots of people say those. So as part of a professional group. We did this kind of interesting.
01:05.50
loriejones7
You.
01:06.50
Sarah Goodman
Book swap and I think something you and I were talking about before we started recording was you know this idea of sort of the um introverted Extrovert. You know you love talking and meeting with people. Um, so this is a book that was um I obtained. It's called Potluck culture. As part of um, a sort of professional white elephant book exchange and um, it's very different. Um from the perspective it. It kind of provides a new lens about engaging in the workplace and I really enjoyed it and so much of the like. Um, I feel like a lot of these books that are out there about kind of professional networking also are all about like never eat lunch Alone. You know I think some of those are great. Books. Um, but they also kind of play into this never stop working kind of mentality.
02:01.39
loriejones7
Ah ha.
02:01.96
Sarah Goodman
And so I really I really enjoyed um this book that I accidentally was get was accidentally given to me. So yeah.
02:08.79
loriejones7
I have never heard of it that sounds so interesting I I like the idea. Um I I am kind of a workaholic but I always tell my admins I'm like don't turn into me, you set some boundaries you make sure that you you know you go take a walk I can't in fact I kick him out. The offices to go take a walk every once in a while but I don't do the same thing. So.
02:31.98
Sarah Goodman
Yeah, it's um, it is ah it is a millennial ah trait I think that we all just work and work and work and work and I am working on putting some balance back into my life I Also just um on Boarded. Ah, full time Ea and I am working on letting go of some things and delegating but it is a work in progress.
02:54.40
loriejones7
It always is and I loved I always love to hear how other successful women navigate that because it's it's such a hard thing and I think especially for women as we as we just give and give and give you know to our work to our to our families to our lives. And sometimes we forget that we need to take care of ourselves as well. So it'll be interesting to delve into that. Thank you for that suggestion. So Sarah tell me a little bit about your journey. How did you? How did you get where you're at today. What brought you along this path and and. A little bit about what you do.
03:33.55
Sarah Goodman
Yeah, So it's an interesting story. Um I did not have a traditional path to M and a which is mergers and acquisitions. Um I never would have pictured myself as someone working you know? um. Some days nose deepep some days chest deep in financial services. Um, but I started my career really legal. Um, when I was in in college I had kind of an internship. Um, you know part-time work opportunity with ah a law firm.
04:00.10
loriejones7
She.
04:05.86
Sarah Goodman
Thought I was going to go to law school I mean I took the lsats I did the whole thing. Um, and for whatever reason just in you know, somewhere inside I just knew that that was not going I mean I adored all the people I'd love to that. The funny joke is I work with lawyers for 4 years and I decided not to be a lawyer. Um, but that's not true. They were all wonderful. Delightful people who I still have the opportunity to cross paths and work with um, it just wasn't for me and so I had this kind of postgraduate. Um period of um, doing some different things. And kind of figuring out what I was good at and honestly failing. Um, one of my favorite stories to tell is I I got hired as a sort of middle manager in my early 20 s at a pretty large company which was. A terrible decision on everyone's part I did not have the emotional intelligence to be a people leader at that stage in my life. Um, and I was I got fired I was fired from that job which was which was at the time very difficult.
05:02.57
loriejones7
And.
05:11.94
loriejones7
Yes.
05:14.74
Sarah Goodman
But you know it it. It really did teach me a lot. Um, and so in the subsequent years I worked an agency and really hit my stride being a people leader um, growing and mentoring a sales team.
05:20.12
loriejones7
Um.
05:33.46
Sarah Goodman
And sort of accidentally happened into a pretty large role. Um managing you know about you know, considerable hundreds and millions of dollars in P And L Responsibility a very large team and really found a passion in. Um, helping people be their best and really helping clients and people achieve their goals and it was a switch that sort of flipped um around the pandemic I think for a lot of people that I kind of decided that corporate life. Even though again, it was.
05:53.16
loriejones7
I said.
06:00.37
loriejones7
Ah.
06:10.61
Sarah Goodman
It was my proving ground it was where I found what I was good at um, a switch sort of flipped around the pandemic certainly becoming a woman of a certain age and small children. You sort of take stock of how you're spending your time and it.
06:23.52
loriejones7
Here.
06:27.93
Sarah Goodman
The the idea of entrepreneurship through acquisition um got on my radar and I started really going through that process. Um my husband and I had always been in real estate. We'd um, done some you know increasingly larger projects. And then we did acquire a business. Um, and so my experience through that entire thing was Wow This is a big wide world I'm really interested in this and also there's not very many people that look like.
06:57.29
loriejones7
Yeah.
07:03.74
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
07:03.85
Sarah Goodman
Me in that space. Um, there are not a lot of um, there's some technology that seems to be missing There's some processes that seem to be missing and so with um, a couple of transactions under my belt. Um. A lot of operational experience and honestly a whole lot of audacity. Yes I do not have an Mba I did not work at Morgan Stanley or Goldman um, these are not things in my pedigree. Um, but I decided to open my own boutique.
07:23.87
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
07:30.99
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah.
07:39.73
Sarah Goodman
Investment bank m and a firm and have really um, enjoyed and enjoyed it but a very nontraditional path from potentially going to law school getting fired from my first management job. Um on up to being you know manager of a pretty large. Huge team to now being a team of less less than fingers I have on my hands. Um and and managing some really interesting transactions. It's been a nontraditional and very fun. Journey.
08:04.24
loriejones7
Yeah.
08:10.46
loriejones7
Yeah I Love it when we find whether on accident or purpose. But when we find those things that we were like oh this is where it was always meant to be you know, even though it it It may have been a. Ah, Curvy path rather than a straight path there I I'm I'm always in awe of people that know exactly what they want to do at 20 I didn't know I still I'm not sure what I wanted I know it's finance but I'm not exactly sure which direction we go in right.
08:36.33
Sarah Goodman
Um, nice.
08:42.98
Sarah Goodman
Yeah, and I think what I think the reality is I do something I really enjoy is I um I've had the opportunity to mentors from school I'm I'm and I'm based in Austin Texas and fortunately here we have the macombs business school through the university of Texas um, hookham. Um, but I've a had the opportunity to um to mentor some young women in that organization and I've tried to explain to them and I think someone tried to explain it to me. Everyone's path is a little curvy. Um.
09:12.78
loriejones7
And.
09:15.55
Sarah Goodman
People kind of show you on social media and on Linkedin you know these Cds everyone has ah and then you know they have ah an external facing storyline but everybody's path is a little curvy and most people don't have it figured out.
09:29.78
loriejones7
And I.
09:34.73
Sarah Goodman
People who are c-suite executives at fortune 100 companies I've worked with them. They are winging it sometimes they also don't have all the answers their path wasn't straight and there's so many opportunities to be found in those curves. Um, embrace them. Don't try to straighten everything out. It's the curves are good.
09:57.12
loriejones7
Yeah, teaches you something along the way I thought it was really interesting and you talked about um you know that position that you were in where things didn't work out and you and you got fired out of that position but it sounds like your your next position you were in charge of a team and in fact, a larger team. Um, so why didn't the first one work out but the second one really hit your sweetzepoth.
10:21.50
Sarah Goodman
Well I think that the first one they the company. So here's here's ah, here's some corporate one I one here right? Um, if you don't have a lot of youth in your middle management team. Don't just pluck a bunch of inexperienced people right out of school and stuff them in jobs.
10:27.65
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
10:36.42
Sarah Goodman
Managing people with not a lot of coaching or training that I know it seems like maybe that's a good idea of course I'm being facetious but it's a terrible one. So the big difference. Um, that was an initiative where they were really trying to introduce. You know they they kind of saw what we're still seeing play out now. Um.
10:37.49
loriejones7
Yes.
10:56.21
Sarah Goodman
Kind of Boomer you know, baby boomers. Um, they realized that due to a number of circumstances their middle management team. There wasn't a lot of layers from an experience and age standpoint. So I actually applaud them for recognizing it and trying to put something in place.
10:56.64
loriejones7
I.
11:15.67
Sarah Goodman
But the execution the training the mentorship was just not there and so um, the second time around I rose organically through the ranks. Um I started that position cutting purchase orders you know, basically um, truthfully this company.
11:26.11
loriejones7
Ah, hurt.
11:34.85
Sarah Goodman
Had a dos based computer system If anyone here is there are people who are listening to this podcast I'm sure who are going to have no idea what that I mean that even is but um, it is kind of a dos based order I started you know, really like tabbing through order pages.
11:43.30
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
11:51.73
Sarah Goodman
Um, and really worked my way up through the ranks to be a director of client services. You know managing you know portfolio accounts from major like fortune 10 companies which was so I think there was a lot of learning along the way I had to kind of.
12:01.45
loriejones7
And have.
12:11.23
Sarah Goodman
Stepwise you know instead of instantly being in charge of a bunch of people that were you know older and more experienced than me. Um I had to kind of earn it a little bit along the way and I had a lot I mean I scraped my knees along the way I made mistakes I'm sure there's I'm.
12:18.40
loriejones7
I think.
12:29.80
Sarah Goodman
Have acknowledged that for every person that tells me I'm the best boss they ever had I'm sure there are people out there that feel like I'm the worst boss they ever had um because I definitely had to learn but instead of instant the second time around it took me almost ten years to get to that role.
12:38.99
loriejones7
Aha.
12:47.62
loriejones7
Aha.
12:48.18
Sarah Goodman
And that was 10 really valuable years of experience incremental growth and some great wins and some hard lessons.
12:55.90
loriejones7
Oh that's really interesting the idea of just learning learning along the way and learning from your mistakes and and how that piece it just you can't really skip it I find that interesting.
13:09.65
Sarah Goodman
Maybe some people can but this person could not So yeah.
13:12.80
loriejones7
Ah, so I know that if I went back to when I was twenty years old and and saw the way I did things I have changed quite dramatically since then. So what if you could look back Sarah on on your journey and and the way it's gone. What. Is the best investment you made in yourself. Can you think of 1 thing that you're like I'm so glad I did that.
13:38.85
Sarah Goodman
Oh my gosh. Um, one of the best investments I made in myself was professional coaching. Um I think a lot about I don't remember exactly who who who said this? Um, but I'm I'm.
13:43.70
loriejones7
Who.
13:55.50
Sarah Goodman
It might have been Kristen Bell I mean I don't know if that makes my advice any better or worse. But I think some there was some famous person I was probably you know doom scrolling mindlessly scrolling and something kind of caught my eye about um, just like the the diet we consume for our food. Um, are we intake a lot through our eyes and ears as well and so just like you know, potentially the idea of having an expert. You know, kind of dietician help you with your physical wellness. Um having an electrician who's an expert help you with your home. Having a person who's a financial planner you know to having an expert help you with these very specific areas of their expertise I hired an executive coach. Um.
14:46.63
loriejones7
You.
14:49.52
Sarah Goodman
While I rose through the ranks This is something that women experience another great book I know you didn't ask me. But um, how women Rise is another favorite and um I I kind of obtained this really great goal of being in a leadership position. Um, but I was miserable.
14:54.74
loriejones7
And.
15:05.71
loriejones7
Is.
15:07.50
Sarah Goodman
And I thought it was something I was doing wrong. Um and executive coaching really helped me understand that I just hadn't let go of some old roles. The company I was working when with I don't think that they were intentionally asking me to do 3 jobs I find that hard to believe. But they were certainly accustomed to me doing 3 jobs and so um, it was kind of through executive coaching I learned more about executive presence about how to really map and have difficult conversations about how to set Boundaries. Um.
15:29.86
loriejones7
Um.
15:44.43
Sarah Goodman
About how to really understand what what pushes my buttons I'm a achievement oriented person and so I get a lot of serotonin and um satisfaction from completing things.
15:51.62
loriejones7
M.
15:59.98
Sarah Goodman
Um, and so sometimes that leads me to work on the wrong things or causes me to take on things that are um, quick quick. You know, quick achievements rather than you know, really dedicating myself to the task of something that's going to take longer and it's going to be rewarding. You know so those were some things that I needed to unpack about myself and get some tools and I'd strongly recommend if you know there are a wide range of coaches out there for a wide range of reasons that you might need some tuneup I'd highly highly. Recommend it.
16:32.35
loriejones7
Yeah, so how did you find a ah good coach because there are lots of coaches out there and lots of people that are willing to coach you. How do you find the ones that work for you.
16:45.62
Sarah Goodman
My suggestion is always to work. Um, for most things my suggestion is to work backwards from what success looks like Um, what are you trying to accomplish what is your pain point. Um, and then kind of identify a coach that has a specific practice.
16:50.63
loriejones7
E.
17:03.80
Sarah Goodman
Resolving that pain point and if you don't really know what success looks like many coaching firms the firm here in Austin that I worked with they're national. Um, it's a firm called work werq um, led by an an incredible woman owned. It's incredible woman own business. Um, they have a number of assessments. You know there are some leadership um tools where you can start to really understand maybe the areas that are going to be the most impactful for you. So I'd I'd recommend starting with the end in mind and if you're not quite sure what that is.
17:22.30
loriejones7
Um.
17:33.81
loriejones7
Then.
17:40.16
Sarah Goodman
Um, focus first on some assessments before you just run out and hire somebody.
17:43.90
loriejones7
Yeah,, that's a really good idea and I think that um that idea I I read a steady diet of leadership and and you know entrepreneurship and and things like that and. That idea of kind of knowing who you are and knowing where your weaknesses are that's sort of important to to have a really good understanding of you know the good and the bad about yourself.
18:06.68
Sarah Goodman
Um, yeah, and what what drives and what really motivates you what? what brings you a lot of satisfaction. Um, and what kind of drains you what? what drains you let's not do those things. Let's find a way around the things that really drain you.
18:14.91
loriejones7
The.
18:21.24
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, exactly what is the worst advice someone gave you um and did you take it did you not take it did you learn from it.
18:31.83
Sarah Goodman
Oh my gosh worst advice I've I've been given um I have been told in the past few years of doing this role so many times that um i'm. I'm not going to be successful which is so wild to me like that someone would say like in real time they would make that assertion is so insane to me. Um, or that I'm I'm not going you know basically.
18:56.52
loriejones7
Li.
19:05.96
Sarah Goodman
The way that I do things in our industry is quite different and I think it it upsets um some parties that are used to the way that they do things um and so often they're like well you know that worked for a little while but that's not going to work for you in the long run you're You're really gonna need to do things this way. Um.
19:07.38
loriejones7
Listen.
19:25.53
Sarah Goodman
And I've been quite stubborn about you know, kind of doing things in a different way and being um I have a colleague who says that I I'm I'm not going to get it just just right? but he says you're you're thoughtfully Antagonistic. You know, very kind and very pensive. But. Um, you have a lightly Contrarian viewpoint that I find really refreshing and so um, that definitely ruffles some feathers in this space that is very traditionally dominated by a very singular type of person.
19:53.71
loriejones7
And when you and you try and change or do things a little bit differently that that sometimes rubs against the the grain the traditional Grain. So How do you keep your spirits up and and be like I know this isn't. The traditional way we're doing things but this is the way that I'm doing things like how do you.
20:16.45
Sarah Goodman
Persevere you know um you know I would say um I'd love to sit here and tell you that every day is sunshine. Um, entrepreneurship is hard. Um. And I think the thing that really keeps me going and this was very good advice I got way back from when I worked at that law firm a mentor um was around kind of finding your tribe you know find find a peer group find. Um. Find a place where you can you know openly share and be vulnerable. You know someone that is also kind of cheerleading for you and so I have a couple of those places for myself and because there is no straight up I mean I think that there are a handful of companies or. You know businesses that it was just overnight success. But most people that you see that are successful. Um, you're only seeing the part here at the end you haven't seen all the you know the ten or fifteen years of of kind of trials and tribulation. So find some people to be shoulder shoulder to shoulder with you during the. Good times and when there's some really big challenges.
21:28.13
loriejones7
Yeah that's really good advice and and I think that it does um, help to have those people where you can go. You know you can go to them and be like ah it's just been a rotten day and they're like you know what? you're doing great Sarah Life is going to get better and you're. Ah person and you're doing good things in the world. That's always helpful I think.
21:49.65
Sarah Goodman
It is. It's super helpful and it's um, it's also like even when bad things happen. They're really bad in that moment but some things that like you know this whole thing like I got fired you know like um, there are times that at the time a thing was happening and it ended up being the The. Branch in my path that was really a step towards much better place and so even when things are like setbacks happen. Um, the windshield is always bigger than the rearview mirror for a reason. Um, we need to be see behind us. We need to kind of know what's.
22:13.16
loriejones7
Ah.
22:24.12
Sarah Goodman
But's just there but there's a reason the windshield is so much larger The look forward you know work through you know, learn from your past but but keep marching.
22:32.90
loriejones7
Yeah I I That's a philosophy I follow as well to kind of look at where what you you know, go through it kind of learn from it that also keep your eye focused ahead because if you live in the past and in those regrets it just it. It doesn't lead to growth So What about regrets and you know speaking of that kind of thing. Can you look back and say hey there's something I I did along my journey that if I knew what I know now I would go back and do that differently.
23:09.84
Sarah Goodman
Ah, this is such a hard one for me. Um I know the answer and I I don't like it. Um I was so obsessed with um promotion and growth and attainment and um. Year I had my daughter I think I still took something like 30 work trips that year and I was things were are different now even now in that short window. Um, then I feel like we had a major paradigm shift about family during the pandemic.
23:28.34
loriejones7
Yeah.
23:40.11
loriejones7
No.
23:42.70
Sarah Goodman
And I'm I'm grateful for it in some ways. Um, but at the time I was so convinced that I had to um I couldn't let having children slowly down at all I still had to say yes to all the meetings. Um.
24:02.17
Sarah Goodman
You know I want to say famously. But um, we had like a major r of p proposal after my second daughter was born and I ended my maternity leave short and flew to Indianapolis you know, like weeks. Postparta you know and um, looking back on that that was such wasted well number one. It was very dangerous I should not have been on a plane. Both of my pregnancies I had pre-eclampsia um, and so number one it was very dangerous and short-sighted.
24:22.43
loriejones7
Ah.
24:32.99
loriejones7
Um, me.
24:38.30
Sarah Goodman
And number 2 I really missed out on a lot of recovery time and you know special time with my girls. Um I really really wish I would not have done that um I really wish I would not have done that.
24:54.70
loriejones7
Yeah, so um, taking that experience. How have you changed? Um, how has your life and your work life balance changed to make sure it doesn't happen again.
25:08.13
Sarah Goodman
Yeah I mean a conversation I have with all my clients Now. Um is I have a family I am a whole person. Um, many of the people I work with are are business owners and you know you know business hours. Is sometimes not the best time for me to speak with them because number one you know they don't really want their employees to know that they're selling their business. They don't really want. Um, it's hard for them to really speak freely while they're often what you know in the whirlwind of their day.
25:24.58
loriejones7
Is it. The who.
25:40.44
loriejones7
But.
25:42.87
Sarah Goodman
And so a conversation to have with the water clients says listen I I will meet you where you are I understand that sometimes seven p M after you've taken your boots off and you've got half a course light down is maybe the best time to kind of chat about some of these bigger life events. Um.
25:56.88
loriejones7
Um.
26:02.25
Sarah Goodman
But my kids might make cameos if my kids are sick I may not be able to keep that seven zero p m call um so we have a very real um, reckoning that if you expect an army of analysts to be at your back and call. Um every single day. Every single hour. Don't hire my firm so I try to set boundaries. Another big thing I've done is um, mom burnout is real I think we are 1 maybe 2 generations in.
26:22.96
loriejones7
The her. The.
26:38.29
Sarah Goodman
For kind of dual working parents or where women have roles that are substantive in their companies. Um, certainly lots of trailblazers before us, but like as a generation I feel like we're 1 or 2 in.
26:43.90
loriejones7
And.
26:50.80
loriejones7
Just.
26:52.71
Sarah Goodman
And so the burnout of being everything to everyone is really taxing and I've kind of decided that a few hours a week on Friday afternoon are just for me. Um I don't work I don't do anything for anyone else. It is it is sort of a recharge period for me so that.
27:03.62
loriejones7
Ah.
27:11.39
Sarah Goodman
I'm ready to be fully present for my family on the weekend.
27:13.58
loriejones7
I love that that is a really great idea and and something that I've seen kind of coming up over and over in these interviews is that like no one's going to do it for you. Nobody is going to carve out those hours to make sure that you are whole and healthy and can give a hundred percent got to do it for yourself and you have to prioritize it too.
27:35.50
Sarah Goodman
Yeah, and I think the other part too is I've really started I mean I'm I'm married to a wonderful man who is so supportive but is also in an you know a first generation in his family of women. You know, really working and doing some of these other things. And so we're trying to kind of learn how to manage and run our household and how who's going to do what and how do we divide? and um and it sometimes I get frustrated about you know what is available or isn't available or how we're doing things and then something ah you know this.
27:56.57
loriejones7
Is it.
28:13.58
Sarah Goodman
Women have only been able to have their own credit and their own bank accounts for 50 years like I'm 40 you know like this is still kind of a new thing that I think we're so used to very rapid progress and our. Our lens in our history is so short and the big scheme of this larger role for women in the workplace. Um, so sometimes I give my sometimes I say you know we're not going to solve it all today right? But we're it is a challenge but.
28:46.00
loriejones7
Right.
28:50.61
Sarah Goodman
Finding those little ways to say okay, this is going to get outsourced someone else and like neither my husband nor I are going to be able to take this on. We're gonna have to outsource this thing. Um, so that we can have you know, spend the quality time and. I cannot just like at my old company I can't do 3 jobs being a homemaker is a full-time job being a working mom is a full-time job. It is not reasonable for any 1 person to do 2 jobs I don't diminish either of them. But i.
29:17.13
loriejones7
Um.
29:26.43
Sarah Goodman
For my weekend roll I have to have some recharge time and so I've I've protected that on my calendars.
29:32.29
loriejones7
Yeah,, that's ah, you're so you're preaching to the choir here I Absolutely 100% agree and um and and there are places that you can offload some of those responsibilities both in your work life and professional life but also in your home life. You know. Um I I Love the companies that have sprung up that will help meal prep be easier because if I never have to figure out what to have for dinner ever Again. My life would be so much better. But.
30:01.38
Sarah Goodman
Yeah I didn't know that um being a wife and a mom meant that I was going to be responsible for every calorie consumed for the next thirty years
30:09.59
loriejones7
yeah yeah I know one of my greatest things is is as um, the kids get older and my kids are leaving home I tell David I'm like I'm never ever deciding what we're having for dinner as soon as they move out I'm never deciding again. But.
30:25.23
Sarah Goodman
Yeah, it's so in and but the other part too is I think like most things like my family cares a lot like I get so stressed out off the meal planning or we having spaghetti too often. Um, my family doesn't care about those things as much as I think that they do you know? So It's um. I think I've tried to also just kind of give myself some grace in some place and also I've tried to Turn. Um I've tried to turn kind of meal prep in these types of tasks that are not fun into kind of more I mean I want this to sound like super after school special like let's make a game out of doing laundry. Um, but I do try to kind of um you know one of our rituals and like the folding of the laundry is you know we we kind of watch sort of terrible television that we don't really have time for otherwise. But.
31:12.19
loriejones7
Yeah.
31:17.43
Sarah Goodman
It's fun. We watch terrible television and we fold and we put the clothes away and it's just and it and it goes so fast rather than oh my gosh I have all of this laundry to do so.
31:24.35
loriejones7
yeah yeah I think that's funny. We actually did exactly the same thing doing I have 5 kids and so doing laundry for a family of 7 Yeah, but we we we got through whole series by the time we were finished with laundry. So what? about.
31:34.83
Sarah Goodman
Um.
31:42.16
Sarah Goodman
It's a when sorry when people tell me like now that I have to when I was I'm I'm an only child so pre-kids people would be like oh we have four kids I'd be like cool. That's awesome or um.
31:43.57
loriejones7
Oh go ahead.
31:55.70
Sarah Goodman
And now when people tell me they have like 3 4 or 5 children I'm like can I think some confetti. Do you need a sash like can I help you what kind of thing for you. Do you need a ticker tape parade because I'll thrill it. Yeah.
32:03.00
loriejones7
Ah, yeah, yeah, ah.
32:07.53
loriejones7
yeah yeah yeah I do think that that I've often said it doesn't matter whether you have 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or twenty. It takes all of your time and all of your energy to.
32:21.21
Sarah Goodman
Are.
32:21.69
loriejones7
You know to get those kids raised to adulthood Happy Healthy human beings. So I think we all we all take that journey and we all do our best with it. But yeah I I ah crazy is a word I've heard more often than but.
32:37.30
Sarah Goodman
No, it's I'm sure it's amazing. It's just a lot. It's a lot to raise exactly what you said it is a lot of work. Um and a colleague when I was having my second and I was feeling overwhelmed a colleague said something very similar to what you said you handle what you have you know? and.
32:53.73
loriejones7
Um.
32:54.85
Sarah Goodman
Your life looks different. It's always full and some things do kind of fall to the wayside but you handle what you have.
33:02.50
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, and amazing women all over the place are doing that and working full time. Really um, heavy hefty careers starting their own businesses like you so it's it's a journey. And I'm glad that there are other women going on this journey that can kind of give me a little sense of perspective or help me out in some of those ways that I need for sure. So if you could go back Sarah and talk to your 20 year old self on the beginning of your journey.
33:25.89
Sarah Goodman
Um, yeah.
33:34.58
loriejones7
What would you tell her.
33:37.39
Sarah Goodman
Um, a lot of the message that I've I've I've had some practice with this question because as I said I'm working with some 20 year olds um you're going to have multiple you know, potentially you're going to go and be a pediatrician for 40 years
33:43.33
loriejones7
Oh.
33:54.86
Sarah Goodman
But maybe you're also going to have 4 kind of different lenses of a ah work life. Um, you don't have to have it all figured out and you you can um, embrace that you don't know.
33:55.70
loriejones7
Um.
34:12.30
Sarah Goodman
That you don't know exactly where you're going is actually kind of a gift because that means that everywhere is the destination and so it's really I've tried really hard to kind of give that gift of like especially you know the mccombs business school is. so competitive it's so um hard driving type a people and I've explained you know, not getting the Delo internship This year is okay, you're going to be fine. You know success is transferable I'm not sure what you're going to do. But you're gonna do something great and it's okay that you did not get that delay internship. Let's figure out what you are going so now that that's not happening. Let's mourn that I'm so sorry that was sad but let's focus on these other things I wish I could go back and give that.
34:53.34
loriejones7
Is a.
35:08.56
Sarah Goodman
Skillset and mentorship to my 20 year old self I think um, it took me until my late 30 s to kind of really ah, really embrace that um I man I'd be so much further along if I'd learned that way if I knew that at 20
35:17.65
loriejones7
And then.
35:24.42
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, um I I do have ah a twenty year old here in the office very high achieving and I had to tell her I'm like you know what? if you do this thing for a while and this doesn't end up being your thing you can pivot.
35:40.69
loriejones7
Like this you aren't deciding today what you have to do for the rest of your life. So.
35:46.79
Sarah Goodman
I know and it's so hard when you're in that moment right? like in that moment these decisions feel so big and it's really one of those. Um. Another really interesting. Ah Kernel I picked up from that Attorney I worked for a long time ago is the doppler effect um trains are a sound coming towards you things coming on the horizon they get bigger and bigger and bigger and like when a train is passing you by and the horn is.
36:16.17
loriejones7
I just.
36:16.29
Sarah Goodman
Flowing. It's just deafening you know and it's so hard to think about. But then that train is going to pass and as the doppler effect happens and the train is going away from you that horn while it's still really loud. With time it doesn't feel that way and so try to kind of consider things at the time that seemed just absolutely catascasic. You know, try to envision. How are you goingnna feel about this in 5 years How are you gonna feel about this in 10 years how are you gonna feel about this in 4 years okay well let's let's.
36:35.55
loriejones7
Um.
36:41.59
loriejones7
Are we are.
36:49.63
Sarah Goodman
React appropriately to how important this is in the Grand scheme of our lives.
36:52.71
loriejones7
Yeah, look at it in the overall viewpoint. Not just what's right smack in front of you and the blaring horn right now that's good advice. What what scared you the most when you first started down your path and does it still scare you.
37:10.98
Sarah Goodman
You know, um, when I told you I had a healthy amount of audacity. Um I've I've given this advice to some others as well. I spent a considerable amount of time personal physical sacrifice Mental sacrifice. For other success like kind of going out on my own I was really comfortable I mean and I know that this comes from a place of of incredible privilege. So I just want to acknowledge that.
37:38.50
loriejones7
And.
37:40.70
Sarah Goodman
Doing this at the stage of life that I'm at with a dual income family and some savings built up I'd certainly built a safety net that I am aware that not all others have so let me just acknowledge that little asterisk. Okay, but I'm I'm perfectly comfortable failing horribly.
37:49.80
loriejones7
Um, yeah, yeah.
37:56.98
loriejones7
Yeah.
37:59.45
Sarah Goodman
I'd rather fail horribly um, betting on myself and getting this a try in building a business with the value set that I want to have then continue to wonder if I'm always just going to be building Others success. Um, and so.
38:17.75
loriejones7
Um.
38:19.43
Sarah Goodman
I Think what scares me the most is that I'm not scared. Um that is sort of a strange thing to say but I am more kind of you know I don't know if I'm in my um I tend to be a person of science. But again maybe with my like I don't know my chakras or in a lot you know, but. Um, not um I am not if I have no fear failure I am not worried about it at all. Um I don't know that feels that feels really scary to say out loud but that's exactly the way I feel.
38:44.33
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
38:52.98
loriejones7
You're more worried about not doing it than you are about doing it. That's so interesting and that's and I think that's the idea of you. You know you're you're not dismissing or saying there aren't things to be worried about it's just that that.
38:55.40
Sarah Goodman
Yeah, yeah.
39:11.32
loriejones7
You're like if I try hard if I work it's going to work out and yeah.
39:15.82
Sarah Goodman
It's going to work out or also maybe it won't maybe it won't and then I will sort out what I'm going to do next but there is such a wide I know when a lot of people are really stressed out about artificial intelligence.
39:30.40
loriejones7
Her.
39:32.74
Sarah Goodman
Um, I think that there are some things to be stressed out about it. But I think it's going to be an absolute boon for you know, productivity and relief. Um for various sectors. Um, and I'm kind of excited I'm hopeful and excited that it's going to bring a lot of innovation and things that we just can't even really process yet and so I don't if I'm doing this ten years from now. Amazing I hope so that means I'll have helped so many people. And if I'm doing something completely different because technology has eliminated this current job. We've had technology before we've had nobody nobody makes punch cards anymore. Um, we don't have people that are standing at kiosks um, processing printed photographs.
40:04.50
loriejones7
Ah.
40:23.19
Sarah Goodman
Um, we've had lots of of technological change. So I'm I'm excited for what the future holds and I hope I'm doing this and I hope I'm successful. But I'm prepared for it to be something different.
40:23.23
loriejones7
Um.
40:32.92
loriejones7
Yeah, that idea of things are changing embrace the change embrace the the excitement and the hope I Love that idea what about challenges because you were a woman you said when you know when we first started out, you're. Not a lot of people look like you as far as you know in your position and in your job and what have you faced any unique challenges because of your gender.
41:00.60
Sarah Goodman
Ah I think so I so I will say that I'm first going to talk about some of the advantages I'm going to say you know I'm meannna I'm going to briefly acknowledge those um I in my space I am the demographic other um there are not a lot of people sub 50 and there are not a lot of women. So um, when you know I think that that is um I am an alternative. Um I'm not for everybody but I think that that does give me. Um, if you go to an event and you're meeting.
41:29.89
loriejones7
Ah.
41:37.12
Sarah Goodman
Like let's say you're meeting with 6 or 7 firms. You're gonna be meeting with 6 people who are all effectively the same and me. So if you decide that I'm your cup of tea I'm the only one you know.
41:45.10
loriejones7
That is.
41:53.21
Sarah Goodman
So I think that that has generated a lot of opportunity for me. So let me just set aside and say that there has been some of that That's been positive I think some of the hard parts about being a woman and and certainly being younger than many in my space. Um, there really just aren't a lot of women. Um.
41:56.85
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
42:11.64
Sarah Goodman
And so sometimes that is physically scary. Um, you know while ah I would hope and tried to believe the best in people. It is very uncomfortable to go to private equity events or other. Kind of conference type events where there are 50 plus people there and there are literally 2 women so that's been a challenge and then um, the other kind of thing that I've experienced in this space and what kind of prompted me in the first place is.
42:38.00
loriejones7
Ah ha ha.
42:47.33
Sarah Goodman
And when I was going through my own acquisition projects. Um, people would ask me if my husband was going to come to the meeting they would be like well so you know I was I was buying a trucking company and people just couldn't fathom that I knew a lot about trucking and logistics and I know a lot about trucking and logistics.
43:04.54
loriejones7
This is.
43:06.59
Sarah Goodman
I've worked with um the railroads I've worked with major freight and transit companies I know a lot about innermodal and international transit and freight. Um, and and so when I was trying to buy a trucking company people were like but but your husband's Goingnna run the company though right? and I'm like. No, he doesn't know anything about this He's a software developer and they're like they just could I mean and so those kind of similar types of questions. Um I get a lot and you know I think it's um, it's rough I mean.
43:25.30
loriejones7
Yeah.
43:40.94
Sarah Goodman
Very recently you know also sort of inappropriate networking questions. Um somewhere recently someone I don't know know I don't want to call this person now because it'll be very obvious but I get asked I get asked some really strange things that I do not think that my male counterparts are asked.
43:55.78
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, that's and that also is a theme that's come up over and over again. How many how many women are in like in my industry. There's about 18% 15 to 18% female financial advisors. What's the percentage then in yours.
44:13.63
Sarah Goodman
Um, you know I The statistics vary are my industry is a little bit segmented in sort of strange way. So there's sort of the business broker and then there's like investment banking and this covers a very wide range of of the capital markets.
44:24.64
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
44:29.91
Sarah Goodman
Um, so if you think about like all women in banking you know in investment banking or what could be considered investment banking. The number is a little bit higher um, specifically in the lower middle market for primarily sell side exit. Um less than three percent of the firms are owned by women and. Very few women. Um, even in these big firms women frequently are sort of relegated to associate or more junior roles on large deals. Um like right now I'm I'm a lead on a you know seventy eighty million dollars deal and that's a little bit unusual.
44:57.47
loriejones7
And.
45:08.48
Sarah Goodman
Um, it's not that it doesn't happen. It's just um, unusual for women to be the lead advisor on a deal of that size.
45:09.19
loriejones7
Um.
45:13.29
loriejones7
Any ideas Why like why aren't women coming into that field.
45:20.68
Sarah Goodman
I Think a big part of it is um I think it kind of cut. This is just my opinion. This is not backed by any sort of data. Um I think it is very intimidating to go to some of these kind of capital events and and really be the only one there.
45:23.36
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah.
45:28.85
loriejones7
And.
45:37.67
Sarah Goodman
I Also think that the job is extremely demanding. It requires a lot of experience and it is very time intensive and so I think that we are still grappling with an infrastructure that hasn't quite figured out how to support. Um, you know, mid-career working women who have families.
45:41.23
loriejones7
Ah, the.
45:56.87
Sarah Goodman
Um, so that's a real I think that's a piece of it also typically depending on the firm size and the type of deals that you work on. Um the revenue cycles can be Peaks and Valleys a little bit feast or famine.
45:57.00
loriejones7
Ah.
46:12.77
loriejones7
Ah.
46:12.91
Sarah Goodman
And so for a lot of women that can be challenging, especially if increasingly um I read this the other day increasingly women are the breadwinner of the family and and so that sort of boom and bust type revenue Cycle is not for every family and it can be I think that can be really tough.
46:23.77
loriejones7
Um.
46:32.52
Sarah Goodman
People as well.
46:32.92
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting I think that that's ah you know, but we are in similar industries with financial planning and and the mergers and acquisitions. Um, they're at least tangential they they work kind of together and I find some of those same challenges in my. And my industry as Well. So Um I Do think though that there are people and probably you're one of them who are trying to to make that change and make it a more and inclusive environment so that so that women can come and stay and grow. In that place.
47:09.24
Sarah Goodman
That's one of the things I'm really hoping that we get from technology right? like Healthcare child care. You know some of these things are big hard problems to solve and I'm hopeful that some of this really innovative technology is going to help us solve some of those challenges. I Don't know exactly how you know like don't ask me I'm not a technical person but my hope is that we're going to get some hour relief in some places so that we can um you know potentially adjust some of these expectations on people and families. You know people without families. You know, Um, just all across the board that will allow a greater access. But I think a lot of things have to Change. There's no unfortunately there's no Silver Bullet. There's no this one thing is going to make it better but I kind of remind myself.
47:45.74
loriejones7
Yeah.
48:04.66
Sarah Goodman
There was this event and I almost didn't go because I was like ah I'm just gonna be the only woman there again and but I I want to show up because if another I want another woman to come and to see another face and to know you know and we have so many areas I know that everybody.
48:16.64
loriejones7
This is.
48:24.20
Sarah Goodman
I don't I don't even participate in these conversations about woke or not woke or the Mod wife or the Tra wife or whatever I'm not interested in those conversations because I I think they sort of central. They the my the frustrating thing about those conversations is they center the onus on on women.
48:29.80
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah.
48:41.56
loriejones7
That.
48:43.59
Sarah Goodman
And they no matter what your position is the woman is still the villain and I just I think that that's incorrect and it's not helpful and so I am hopeful that there's going to be change I am hopeful that technology I know lots of people have very negative things to say about. Millennials and gen z and Genalpha some of the people that I'm spending time with I'm incredibly impressed by these people and I'm so excited for their kind of fresh perspectives and their tenacity and um I'm looking forward to what they bring to our workforce and to career lives.
49:03.87
loriejones7
Um, ah Aria.
49:21.58
loriejones7
Oh I agree and I think that this this ah group of women that we have now in the workforce you know taking places in the industries that we typically I mean you were the only woman in the room. But if you look back ten or fifteen years there wouldn't even have been a woman in the room. so so I think that as as we help lift and grow and I find that so many women are willing to do that. They're willing to lift and grow and help that next generation come in and share. Experience like you have today so that they might have a little bit of an easier time of it.
50:01.10
Sarah Goodman
And for people creating great spaces for us to share these stories and to have them in a way that's authentic. Um, so like you these podcasts and this continued open dialogue and conversation is so important because.
50:14.25
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
50:17.22
Sarah Goodman
I think that we've been sort of artificially forced into a binary you know butter side up butter side down and I think most people we agree a lot more than we. Um, it says this in an election year. Um, we agree so much more than I think we we disagree.
50:33.34
loriejones7
Me.
50:35.34
Sarah Goodman
But we're we're not, we're we're focused on how we've we've been tricked into focusing on the differences rather than how we are aligned and how we can grow and how we can improve and I think that these types of conversations where it's just people to people and really open.
50:45.43
loriejones7
Here.
50:53.67
Sarah Goodman
Experience Sharing is so necessary to thank you for what you're doing.
50:58.62
loriejones7
Ah, well I love it. So no thanks necessary? Yeah, but what Sarah are you most proud of.
51:08.62
Sarah Goodman
I am most proud. Oh My gosh. Um I am most proud I wish I'm so proud of my family I'm so proud of. My children I'm so proud of this life that we're building together and it makes me um, really excited about the future and I know that you know my path is different than everybody's path but it's something I'm so proud of that we've we've built together.
51:35.33
loriejones7
Um.
51:41.46
loriejones7
Yeah, that is um and they're going to be the you know the the workers of the future they are going to be the entrepreneurs they are going to be the the changemakerrs of the future and and I I completely understand that I'm I'm pretty proud of.
51:58.84
loriejones7
My family and my team as well. So what? Um, what advice would you have and it sounds like you give advice directly to young women who are looking at coming into this industry but how would you How would you talk to a woman or what advice would you give to her if she's just starting down this path that you're already so successful at that would help her get to where you're at one day
52:23.27
Sarah Goodman
Go for it bet on yourself. There are unlimited opportunities for you to bet on someone else bet on yourself. Um, if you're if you're not going to put your chips on your own card. Nobody else is going to so like bet on yourself. I. It's hard. It's I tried again I tried not to look into the rear be mirror too hard but um, or for too long, but if you bet on yourself. There's so much opportunity and part of me I know that I'm successful now because of all the things that I've done in the past and all of the things that have happened and all of that. So You can't go Back. You can't revise history and say okay if only I would have done this earlier but it's really hard for me. Not to say a man I Really wish I'd bet on myself a lot earlier I'd be so much further along um, but that's that's maybe not the best way to think about it but bet on yourself. Um, trusting yourself.
53:14.85
loriejones7
Um.
53:20.56
loriejones7
I love that I love that idea of fearless for me like be fearless take a bet try it. Thank you so much Sarah for spending some time with us today and just.
53:20.70
Sarah Goodman
And and go for it.
53:34.14
loriejones7
Um, I've I've loved our conversation I love learning from you if I have listeners that want to get in touch or ask questions where do they go.
53:43.11
Sarah Goodman
Um, if they are interested. Um, you can go to emminence strategies. Oh I mess that up. Um, eminencestraies.com um I also have e if it's for you know speaking or they just want to kind of meet one- on one with me about their personal journey. Um. Sarah Goodman with anhdotcodotcom Sarah Goodman Dot Co.
54:04.13
loriejones7
Perfect that works so great. Well thank you. Thank you? Thank you for spending this time and just letting us hear a little bit about your journey and and sharing in your success and I appreciate it so much.
54:17.41
Sarah Goodman
Thank you so much for having me. This was such a delightful conversation I Really appreciate it.