Today, Lorie sits down with Ivana Polonijo, a dynamic leader who gracefully balances life’s many roles. Discover how she navigated her way through career obstacles, advocated for equality in the workplace, and learned the true value of rest and self-awareness.
Ivana’s practical wisdom for personal and professional growth offers a blueprint for managing the intricate dance between work and wellness. Whether you’re climbing the corporate ladder or crafting your own path, Ivana’s insights are sure to resonate and inspire.
Tune in to explore the strategies that shaped her success and how they can empower your own journey.
Show Highlights:
- Be inspired with a fearless female owning her journey. [00:04:41]
- A powerful lesson in healthy authenticity vs. oversharing. [00:10:57]
- How to progress from personal trauma to personal victory. [00:17:52]
- Uncover the art of being your whole self at work. [00:23:54]
- Learn to calm the mental noise of imposter syndrome. [00:29:09]
- Access a goldmine of tips for effortless communication. [00:33:46]
- Why embrace rest over the glorified overwork culture? [00:36:06]
- Examples of workplace gender bias and how to tackle it. [00:42:28]
- Sage advice for young people starting their journeys. [00:48:48]
For more information or to connect Ivana Polonijo, go to:
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to http://fearless-females.com/.
00:02.61
loriejones7
Well, thanks so much. We're here with even a polonio. Um, she is the chief solutions officer and founder of courageous beings which is a courageous leadership center and I am so excited about. Our podcast today I've been looking forward to talking to you even if for weeks now. So thank you so much for joining and and helping us out with this I appreciate it.
00:27.88
Ivana Polonijo
You're most welcome and the pleasure is mine when we met in person a few weeks ago our conversation was so juicy and it really exemplified so many things that I'm passionate about and I can't wait to to talk some more.
00:40.30
loriejones7
Yeah, wait. We it's she's right about that we couldn't keep from getting excited both of us. So I'm super excited about this. So even though my first question is I it's an easy question I am a reader I love reading any. Everything? Um and I have a ah little book list that I'm starting with this podcast. What is your favorite book.
01:04.64
Ivana Polonijo
I I'm a big reader to Lari I've been reading since I was a really young kid and when I was growing up in Croatia. It was a real important pastime. It was a place to well both where I could grow. And expand my horizons. It was also a place where I learned how to disassociate so I pay attention to those 2 things when it comes to books and these days I read things mostly that really allow me to keep being more present as opposed to you know, using it to numb out which is what I I did a lot with books. Um, when I was growing up so lots of books we could talk about lots of them and very hard to pick favorites I do have a book that's right next to me so I'm going to highlight that one because I've been um, using it a lot in courageous being. So if I am if I have to recommend only 1.
01:41.50
loriejones7
Ah.
01:58.75
Ivana Polonijo
I would bring up the energy codes and it's right next to me because I do work with it. A lot with everything that I do.. It's essentially a manual of practices and principles that are. Well really useful to be aware of as a human being there is ah, there's some Quantum science in here. There's yoga. There is neuroscience and um, a real nice set of suggestions for how to breathe how to really.
02:16.87
loriejones7
Anne.
02:34.90
Ivana Polonijo
Treat your body how to be in space and place how to relate with other humans. It gets pretty granular so it's not a page starter I would not recommend anybody like sit down and think you're just going to read this from start to finish but it is like it's a compendium of these amazing principles and practices that um. I I believe you know every conscious leader should be aware of so.
02:56.62
loriejones7
I Love it. I'll have to add it to my list. Yeah,, there's I've got a ah ton of those deep books that kind of teach you something and I love those I Love the easy reads too. We put those in between the deeper ones. But definitely,. It's interesting to kind of get a. Ah, full flavor and really dive in deep in some of those. So Thank you.
03:21.44
loriejones7
So even ah, tell me a little bit about your journey. How did you get where you're at what do you do talk to us about about who you are.
03:34.16
Ivana Polonijo
Um, I you know a few. Um, it's say my well let's let's back up here because see what happens here is as soon as stuff starts to get personal and emotional and there's an invitation to be vulnerable. Our bodies start to. Glitch and it is. You know you ask that question and it seems so this can totally be part of the answer. This can seem such a easy one. But if you've been through and most of us have poignant big potentially Traumatic events.
03:59.10
loriejones7
Be here? yeah.
04:09.71
Ivana Polonijo
Growing up on this journey that you're asking about some things going to happen with your energy and and then the question is do we know how to actually be with that and keep going without necessarily abandoning the fact that something here is asking for for attention. So when you ask me that question. You know my mind. And my physiology goes back to Eastern Europe I was born and and raised in what was originally former Yugoslavia and then I was there during the civil war in the 1990 s that I know was on the news in the United States so my journey is it. It does you know include the word immigration.
04:31.96
loriejones7
Um, it is.
04:40.40
loriejones7
Yeah.
04:49.51
Ivana Polonijo
And it's something that I spent many years avoiding thinking and talking about it was really important to me to fit in here to be um american and I thought for a long time that by avoiding considering the fact.
04:51.48
loriejones7
And.
04:58.26
loriejones7
Wow.
05:07.29
Ivana Polonijo
There has been a big immigration journey that that's actually going to help me be here more authentically and that's not the case I realized relatively recently having met some really cool people who work in the dni space and mental health and well-being and the workspace space.
05:13.96
loriejones7
Ah.
05:25.30
Ivana Polonijo
That really owning and claiming that story is is good for me and and good for continuing to show up in financial services in this conscious leadership space. So yeah, so my journey started. Um. In Zagriib in Croatia in former Yugoslavia and I spent those 90 s daydreaming about emigration I didn't do that until I was finished with college because things calmed down um warwise when I started college and I wanted to experience a few years of
05:46.76
loriejones7
He.
06:01.99
Ivana Polonijo
Um, column in let's say back to normal 8 experiences with my family but I kept feeling this draw to move and to go far away and really put a couple of you know oceans that hook.
06:04.98
loriejones7
Aha.
06:18.55
Ivana Polonijo
And and in continents between me and that in that history and that's why it's so important to integrate it these days. So I First moved to Toronto Canada on a student visa to pursue a master's degree in social anthropology at york university um, then I started a long distance relationship with. A person who was a friend at the time he was a medical student from Chicago. So then that you know, um, mixing of of schooling and and romance led me to move to Chicago and get married obtain a spousal immigrant visa. And then continued that master's degree remotely so it was interesting. I was one of the first people you know, kind of doing some hybrid hybrid work stuff. Um parenting my my little one. My son was um.
07:07.95
loriejones7
Um, ifwaha.
07:08.89
Ivana Polonijo
Who is now Twenty Oh My goodness was was an infant when I was mixed and matching these things and you know being a stay at home Mom primarily while you know, conducting research then checking in with the University in Toronto I'm highlighting this because I can tell Now. Didn't know what was going on at the time but I can tell now that these experiences really prepared me for I mean if nothing else sensitivity to these kinds of topics. Um, when they come up for other people women in particular in the corporate setting. You know what is that like when it's you know it's.
07:33.42
loriejones7
Um.
07:36.54
loriejones7
Yeah.
07:43.88
Ivana Polonijo
It's truly no no exaggeration it's one o'clock in the morning and you're trying to you know finally get some quiet work done and then your baby cries and you love them and your heart you know goes out there. But you're also and you're going to go and pick them up and see what what they need and at the same time you're you know you're you're.
08:01.97
loriejones7
I asked.
08:02.38
Ivana Polonijo
Energy sinking it was like not again I'm going to have to go back and you know pick this up So I'm really grateful for for these kinds of experiences including the divorce that followed and then you know building my life in a new location in the Pacific Northwest a blended family. Um I. Handful of different jobs that led to you know, um, a career in the 4 1 K space in particular retirement plan Qualified plan Industry. So really wanted to highlight that. Um, you know these events or a string of events that seemed so.
08:38.94
Ivana Polonijo
Unrelated at the time they end up being you know what we harness that adversity in many instances you know these examples that I'm talking about they weren't pleasant. They weren't easy. They were really hard and I look back and I wouldn't change a single thing you know so.
08:41.31
loriejones7
And.
08:49.60
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
08:58.35
Ivana Polonijo
Because if you start pulling one of those you know out of the equation. All of a sudden The whole thing falls apart. So those are the things that I'm also passionate about talking about you know what really happened and how did that How did that form you and how is that infusing.
09:05.67
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
09:15.49
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
09:15.54
Ivana Polonijo
What you do today when you show up for work I talk a lot about humanizing the world of business and being sensitive to these stories and experiences that we all have I feel like and yeah.
09:24.16
loriejones7
Oh that's so interesting I agree you know, looking at the backstory where someone's come from and the experiences that they've had and I can absolutely empathize with that. Oh why can't you go back to bed I have 5 children on my own and. And I went through that phase where I was trying to get things done and raise the kids at the same time and that just feels overwhelming sometimes and and you do as women bring that experience to your job. You know, um I was I was lucky enough actually that I was staying home with my kids and working you know, part time. Not really doing career work but part time work during that time but there are so many women that are trying to balance career or education in your case. And also show up for their families and their partners and that is just it is a lot to deal with Thank you so much for being so authentic and and sharing that story with us.
10:28.40
Ivana Polonijo
Um, I think you loie so you just used the word authentic and I'd love to spend a moment um reflecting on that because I was at last year asked um there was an event. I was asked to consider the word authenticity and I know ah so many of us are talking about it these days and it's it's everywhere. It was the you know Webster dictionary word of 2023? Um I wanted to highlight an example from that personal history. We're just chatting about that really allowed me to get to understand what authenticity is not in the workplace and it was such a um mistake that I made at the time. But now again, it's a useful and powerful Lesson. So. Mentioned that at one point you know I was talking about doing my masters in the kiddo being little and trying to finish that and getting up in the middle of the night. Well those kinds of events continued as I switched into this role of you know, being in the corporate America space at the time as a single parent.
11:33.37
loriejones7
Um, and.
11:34.15
Ivana Polonijo
Because the you know the divorce happened and now all of a sudden it was like me and the kid are are trying to make it work here in the state. It's a pretty common story. Not not that unusual so I was so um, um, invested in keeping my first American job.
11:42.95
loriejones7
Um, oh yeah.
11:53.70
Ivana Polonijo
Which was good and very um, you know both engaging and challenging and it was a lovely set of you know skills that I was building while also showcasing some of my existing talents I was an office manager for a software solution company. So It was a it was a cool both new experience and it was asking a lot of my you know. Existing talents to kind of come come through and I was simultaneously managing um the divorce paperwork which included because of the spousal Visa piece Green Card. It included some in a nice like Hollywood movie moments where.
12:31.18
Ivana Polonijo
They're basically asking me to prove that I Really love this person and that you know it was. It was really intense. So So many so many activities had to happen in order for all that paperwork to finalize and be you know, solved them and resolved. It was taking a lot of time during business hours to manage all that and at the time because I didn't have any resources and I didn't really have good mentors who could advise me how to approach this situation I thought that it was really authentic and useful and helpful.
12:51.56
loriejones7
Here.
13:07.27
Ivana Polonijo
To let my boss know way too much about what was going on with that whole situation and I overshared on a regular basis because this was a saga as you can tell so and I and I thought that this was um.
13:12.61
loriejones7
Ah.
13:17.20
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
13:25.36
Ivana Polonijo
You know, really helpful to both of us. 1 thing I wasn't paying attention to was how I felt while I was sharing every time I would tell him about what was going on or excuse myself or explain what was happening and why I was running late I felt awful in the body. So I was actually sending myself signals. Don't do it. Don't do it like this. It's okay to orient your boss about what's happening but you're crossing lines here now I understand that that anxiety basically that I was feeling in that and that discomfort in terms of sensations had nothing to do with the challenges of the situation as a whole.
13:49.57
loriejones7
And.
14:03.10
Ivana Polonijo
It was me really nicely letting myself know hey girl ringing some internal bells like slow down with this oversharing. It's not authentic I was trying to control him had no idea that that's what I was doing at the time because it takes some you know pausing and awareness building and consciousness building.
14:08.94
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
14:22.75
Ivana Polonijo
To get that what I was really doing is making sure that he didn't fire me I kept basically running on this experience of I'm a good worker please like me my productivity won't be suffering because of this and so on.
14:28.76
loriejones7
Um, and.
14:42.70
Ivana Polonijo
Which created this really nervous energy between us. So this micro example helped me understand so much about what actually happens in the world of business and 1 thing I'm passionate about today is you know metaphorically going back in time and helping that young woman.
14:43.60
loriejones7
Okay.
15:02.50
Ivana Polonijo
Do it differently and with more grace. Nothing needed to be different about that set of circumstances. But if I had had resources and understandings and a way to you know, really practice staying poised staying on subject not dispersing not pulling on my boss.
15:19.58
loriejones7
Okay.
15:22.41
Ivana Polonijo
The whole thing would have gone so much more smoothly and our working relationship would have been better too I think our projects would have benefited I think overall my productivity would have benefited from me just handling my internal state about this differently. So yeah and it really taught me about like.
15:35.40
loriejones7
That's so interesting.
15:40.14
Ivana Polonijo
That was not authenticity. Yes I may have shared with him a bunch of true facts about my personal life but I wasn't being authentic.
15:48.52
loriejones7
Yeah I like that I like that idea that was a really good example and I think that's something that our younger listeners probably could benefit from you know and understanding that um that there there's places that you need to keep private in your life. And and share what's needed in order for your um business relationship to you know to work and to have understanding and to have empathy but you don't need to share everything in order to get to that place.
16:20.46
Ivana Polonijo
Yes, and I think that skill is you know it comes up in it comes up requirement for this or a call to do this to be really aware and attuned it comes up every single day in many moments you don't have to have a massive situation like this one that I was dealing with for this.
16:27.96
loriejones7
This I mean.
16:40.31
Ivana Polonijo
Level of attunement to be called for. It comes up on every Zoom meeting that we're on every call every email there's something in there that's going to ask for this discernment between am I saying this one sentence.
16:40.44
loriejones7
No.
16:57.44
Ivana Polonijo
From a place of authentic fullness. Even if it's something. That's you know, challenging to say or am I inserting the energy of you know control pulling protecting something avoiding something and everyone can tell the difference. Everyone can tell the Difference. We just ah, you know don't. Sometimes we don't know what it is that we can pick up on.
17:16.46
loriejones7
Yeah I think that's a good point too I You maybe think that everyone can tell the difference I might not know the difference but I do sometimes pick up on like oh this feels awkward.
17:30.76
Ivana Polonijo
Yeah, everyone can tell the difference but we are not aware that we can tell the difference So That's the so we're not so it's sort of a it's a definition of can we tell a definition of you know, being able to tell I'd love for more of us to become really aware of. What that difference is but we all feel like oh this didn't feel right something Something's off like we can tell that something's you know, something's off. So.
17:56.11
loriejones7
So what do you think is the best investment that you've made in yourself like was there a turning point or an aha moment that kind of led to your success. What do you think was the best thing you've done.
18:14.34
Ivana Polonijo
When I started investing and it really included also a lot of um, a lot of dollars that I had I had to have a lot of serious conversations with myself about you know that kind of an investment in my personal development. Even though that wasn't the messaging that I was receiving from the corporate setting that I was in at the time I felt that my personal development and my personal growth was very professional that that was professional development I was um when I joined the Broker dealer.
18:38.33
loriejones7
A.
18:45.91
Ivana Polonijo
And I here in Portland Oregon I was asked to get a lot of securities licenses and it was a great experience. Learned a lot really um, expanded my horizons in terms of you know what? even I was capable of learning I never thought that I could actually learn some of these you know financial terms and especially in a different language. You know than my native tongue.
19:02.86
loriejones7
Um, me.
19:05.83
Ivana Polonijo
But I realized simultaneously that I needed to start addressing these basically states that would come up around. Um Well you saw it here. You ask me about my history something happens with my breath something happens with my energy. Have to tend to it because of the history of personal trauma and it's still it still goes on it still happens. But now I have some tools and resources to to be with that. So The best investment I ever Made. Um, and I continue to make it was in my personal sense of self awareness.
19:26.28
loriejones7
E.
19:45.24
Ivana Polonijo
Peace Inner calm and that varied so it was um, traditional Psychotherapy yoga retreats that taught me how to breathe meditation and then very specifically. Ah really getting to be.
19:50.17
loriejones7
Here.
20:03.70
Ivana Polonijo
Very comfortable with these 2 different modalities that I facilitate now inner bonding and energy codes but it doesn't matter what that's called like the big. The big idea here is really knowing that I got to start on the inside and I have to learn it I don't have the tools.
20:15.78
loriejones7
And.
20:21.62
Ivana Polonijo
I Don't know where to go I don't know how to do it. So let me treat myself as a resource too and as ah, um, and invest in myself that way and it's spade off.
20:33.88
loriejones7
I see so you're you're talking about like um, learning kind of learning who you are and how you work and where your pain points are maybe where your um problem you know where your problem solving isn't the best personally.
20:51.56
loriejones7
And and then bringing that to your work is that am I understanding it.
20:57.00
Ivana Polonijo
That's exactly right? a short way to say it would be inner work so investing in my inner development across all of my faculties and different bodies so investing in knowing learning how to take care of myself.
21:05.95
loriejones7
The.
21:14.48
Ivana Polonijo
On a physical body standpoint like just breathing can be an example of that I used to be super shell over either and I didn't know that if I keep breathing like this so not even hitting my full lung capacity I was perpetuating anxiety. So if I'm in a meeting and I don't know how to take a full belly breath.
21:16.52
loriejones7
And.
21:34.32
Ivana Polonijo
I'm not going to show up as in my fullness in my authenticity and and tap into my full potential for nobody in that room I won't be able to really know what it is that I can contribute my employer is not going to get the best the best for me. So.
21:44.19
loriejones7
Who.
21:51.28
Ivana Polonijo
Investing in. Um, let's call it a course that taught me how to breathe that was then coupled with some physical movements very yoga traditional yoga like oh wow here I am on a Saturday you know learning some poses but then on a Monday I'm noticing. Okay, this is different I'm sitting and breathing differently because of the investment I made on Saturday and then I kept going with different bodies I call them all bodies. But it's emotional body all right? You know you bring up eastern europe I go ha ha panic attack so investing in therapy. That allowed me to learn some tools and really process some of those old you know old traumas move them out of the system.
22:32.63
loriejones7
And do you have some some good resources to do that it it sounds like you did a class for it and now this is what you do for other people is that right.
22:46.31
Ivana Polonijo
That's correct. Yeah, So for me, the big, the big game changers were inner bonding so exposing myself to inner bonding a particular particular process and a particular set of principles and and practices that. I I Love to the point that I decided okay I have to I have to not only do it for myself I want to teach it I want to incorporate it in what I offer with courageous being in general and then the other ah set of principles and practices is the energy codes that I mentioned.
23:21.63
Ivana Polonijo
But again I'd I'd say it doesn't you know it doesn't really matter what you do as long as you actually practice it. The thing that made the most difference and the investment that I the investment that I made would not have paid any benefit if I didn't actually do it. So.
23:37.38
loriejones7
Yeah, that's like wait you can learn all you want theoretical knowledge. But unless you actually practice. Yeah yeah, and I bet I bet you help people to make sure that they do their practicing right.
23:41.31
Ivana Polonijo
The yeah yeah yeah.
23:53.48
Ivana Polonijo
That's right because it's so easy to forget to do it. It's so easy to forget to do it. We're so we're programmed to be resistant to doing it because it means we'll change and are.
23:59.91
loriejones7
Then.
24:07.47
Ivana Polonijo
You know primordial brain is not really comfortable with that because if I am if I am staying with what I know the false belief is that I'll be able to control it and then I'll be safe so it takes some you know, real strong free will and choice.
24:20.22
loriejones7
Um, miss.
24:27.39
Ivana Polonijo
To do things differently when we're introduced to a new concept or there is a suggestion to explore a different way of operating. There'll be some resistance come first.
24:32.79
loriejones7
Um, yeah for sure we have to be open to those new experiences. What? Um, what about? what is the worst advice someone gave you and I'm always curious I follow that up by did you take the advice.
24:51.62
loriejones7
Did you not.
24:55.10
Ivana Polonijo
Yeah I was thinking about that when you were describing in reflection to what I was saying about you know, juggling the juggling motherhood especially when the child is really young with obligations that include um. You know some some kind of a work commitment and you you said something so beautifully I'm definitely going to go back and listen to how you phrased it about it not being possible to separate those out I mean you are 1 being one container of energy and experiences and you don't stop being a mom. When you show up at your desk if if you are a mom you don't show. You don't stop being a pet owner of a beloved you know dog or a cat when you show up for work. You don't stop being a daughter or a son and you know even if you're really, um, it it really doesn't matter what these examples are you are um one holistic being in all of these different settings. The worst piece of advice I ever received was when I got um I I got ah it was a different job it wasn't the it wasn't the office manager job it was a different job I landed the job already so the interviews went great I received my invitation to come to work was so happy so excited and then my first day with my new boss. This is in the financial services industry setting the person.
26:27.27
Ivana Polonijo
Wanted to have an orientation orientational conversation about what this is all going to be like now that I'm in and she said okay so I want you to keep this in mind every single day we have this building and there are many floors in the building. And we all park in the garage underneath the lobby. So by the time you get into the garage and then you'll get to the lobby and then there's the lobby elevators and then you'll get in the elevators there to come up to our floor I want you to leave all of your personal experiences. All of these you know considerations the fact that you dropped off your kid at Daycare and the fact that you're you you know you're here from craisha your parent I want you to leave all of that in the lobby and when you get into that elevator you get up and you get ah out at our floor. That's it. This is the only thing you're doing. You're here for this job as you know and then such and such title. This is it and it's only when you like exit and leave and leave the building that you get to pick all that life back again and it was said I wouldn't say it was said lovingly that was not said lovingly. But this was said as ah as a piece of like mentorship. There was a I really recommend this because if you do this, you will really succeed and that wasn't I I knew in my so the depths of my soul and with every cell of my body that this wasn't good advice.
27:44.76
loriejones7
Um, here.
28:00.97
Ivana Polonijo
It was never going to be possible. So even um, trying to aspire to that kind of a state would just be a big waste of time and energy I stayed with the job and I did not take the advice.
28:11.30
loriejones7
So did you stay with the job.
28:21.18
Ivana Polonijo
Ah, and I and I went deeper with so I realized I was I was starting to run some resentment when I heard that I was like this is BS okay there's no way I'm not being my kid's mom at at in my cubicle. And if the dayer calls me I'm going to pick pick up the call but I went deeper and I was wondering what is this person really trying to communicate that could be useful. They could be helpful and if when I did that then I was like okay there is something here that I can work with which is be present.
28:39.62
loriejones7
Um.
28:56.95
Ivana Polonijo
When you, it's It's not about not being a mom. But if I'm at my desk right now resolving this email situation responding talking to a client be there. Don't be you Know. Of checking checking messages unnecessarily put the phone in a mode where they can reach you if you if you're needed but the kid is now a daycare other folks got him I'm here with the work situation and I'm present so that piece of advice that did take. And that's very different than um than what you know what? and how she was communicating her message but there was a gem in there and I believe that every time we get a bad piece of advice. There's probably some good gem in there that we can that we can find and harness.
29:39.23
loriejones7
Oh um, that's so interesting I Love how you looked a little bit deeper into what she was saying to find the like you say the gem in there. The advice that is worth taking I I Thought that's really interesting. Um, my brain probably would go to? oh.
29:56.49
loriejones7
I can't stop being a mom and and stop there but you took it a little bit further to say well, what could I learn from this situation I love that. So even though there are regrets. We all have them. What is 1 situation in your career or um, you know this journey that you've taken that you wish you would have done differently and why how what did you learn.
30:27.10
Ivana Polonijo
I was afraid of asking more questions in the beginning because I was running on imposter syndrome when I first started showing up in the 4 run case space I was um, it was it was understood.
30:29.78
loriejones7
This is.
30:36.27
loriejones7
We have.
30:44.34
Ivana Polonijo
By my employer that I didn't have any past experience with four one K plans it was understood that I was going to learn that on the job. The regret that I have is that I For some internal reason I told myself that if I don't learn it. Then I don't even know what I came up with maybe like the first week or you know though I said some I said the bar super super high and that if I ask some what I was considering you know, basic questions too long.
31:15.25
loriejones7
This is.
31:20.36
Ivana Polonijo
If it was you know now we're in the second month and I still have the basic question that that's going to reveal that I don't know what I'm doing It's a classic imposter syndrome and then I'm going to be fired and then you know this is how when you do these process internal processes like in their bonding you you start to see like the lunacy of the false beliefs. So if I ask a good question about you know some nuance of a relationship between a recordkeeper and a third party administrator that I'm immediately going to get fired then if I get fired my son and I are immediately going to lose our house and then we're going to be on the streets and then there will be nothing to eat and we will both die. So it's it's really. Like there is something there that like a record starts to play and all of a sudden you are in this like that anxiety. So the the crazy thing is that then you start to prevent yourself from actually learning what could be useful to everybody and the stakes are not.
32:02.14
loriejones7
Um.
32:07.00
loriejones7
Um.
32:18.21
Ivana Polonijo
Not as high as what I'm describing it to be in my head you know in the back of my mind sometimes we don't even hear that that's what's going on. Yeah.
32:22.26
loriejones7
Yeah, you build it up in that and the story becomes this monster in your mind where it really isn't the question should be asked and you should feel comfortable asking that question. Whatever it is even if it's the dumb Question. You've asked 3 times I Tell. You know all of my admin and staff I'd rather have you ask me over and over and over again, then you know then get something Wrong. We're all here to learn right? So um, if you could go back and do that a little differently that situation. What would you? What would you have done.
32:49.97
Ivana Polonijo
Things. Yes.
33:01.34
Ivana Polonijo
Um I would have um I would have I would have spoken about what was happening for me in terms of feeling lost more authentically more clearly with more discernment and I because I did have a couple women. In particular so they and in some and some male mentors and bosses I wouldn't call them. They weren't mentors by default I made them into mentors because I basically said okay I like you you are kind you speak clearly I'm new to this.
33:37.67
loriejones7
And then.
33:37.98
Ivana Polonijo
Can I please ask you some questions The the thing I would do differently is I would have asked more questions than I would have I would have been talking to them more frequently more frequently and more in real time and what I was doing is I was spending way too much time just sitting on it and trying to figure it out.
33:48.56
loriejones7
And.
33:57.18
Ivana Polonijo
On my own and beating myself up about it. So I would I would not beat myself up about it and I would still go I would go to these people with more ease and again, no oversharing. No need to tell them that you know. Never thought I was going to be doing anything with numbers and finance and my background is in social anthrop about none of that just like okay I'm looking at this I wish it was making sense but it doesn't I remember that you said Xy and z and I that makes sense but this piece over here is what I'm I'm stumped on. Can you help me understand it and if now is not a good time when can I come back that was now that's easy. The roll was off my tongue I know how to do that that was monumentally difficult in the beginning because I was so invested in you know, making sure that I keep the job and. Show up in a certain way that they think I was helpful contributing. Yeah lots of self-pressuring in that.
34:53.36
loriejones7
Ah I love that you phrased it that way that you kind of talked through exactly the words that you would have used in order to to get the answer that you needed and and still help them to feel like okay you know not a lot of pressure. Okay. Like if if I can't do it right now I could do it. You know next week or next you know and grow three days or something along those lines I love that those are really good phrases and listeners should take notes on that because that was that was a really great way of putting it.
35:26.34
Ivana Polonijo
Thank you oftentimes I get questions these days from people I work with who come to the center about the formula for this So tell me something I can say how can I phrase this and while we can practice this and it really is very beneficial.
35:35.50
loriejones7
A.
35:45.75
Ivana Polonijo
To Learn some some phrases this kind of communication starts to flow out of you so easily and readily once you've learned how to self-align when you're calm on the inside and you've shushed. Those Judgments you don't know what you're talking About. You shouldn't ask them if you ask them? they'll think this or that with it when those voices are not running and you have a way of being really mature inside yourself the words that will be heard. Start to flow through you and out of you with more ease and you don't actually need the formula so there are certain things that are helpful to learn while we're getting comfortable with this new way of operating but the more you can check Am I am I here with my energy or am I.
36:28.47
loriejones7
Um, tim.
36:42.16
Ivana Polonijo
Falling on Laurri So let's say you know I come to you and I'm really invested in us in this relationship working out I'm going to really it feels like I may not need to touch you but it will feel like I'm asking something from you and when I'm keeping that in check knowing what I saying.
36:52.97
loriejones7
You.
37:00.75
Ivana Polonijo
It It doesn't really matter that much which words I choose you're going to feel free to respond as opposed to dragged dragged down and pressured. Yeah yeah.
37:07.47
loriejones7
Pressure pressure and and stress to respond. Yeah I Love that? Yeah I I those are great I'm going to go back and write that down so that I can use some of those. Thoughts and feelings when I'm asking for advice because we all do it doesn't matter whether we're starting out on our career or whether we're in the middle or even closer to the end. You always find things that you just don't know and and I found that there are so many people that are willing to teach and help and and grow. Um, ask just to ask huh. So if you could go back and talk to your younger self your person that was just starting out on this journey your 20 year old self or 21 year old self. What would you tell her.
37:42.70
Ivana Polonijo
Yes, yes.
38:00.55
Ivana Polonijo
Are.
38:09.19
Ivana Polonijo
Who That's um I would yeah it's a big question. You know there's there are sentences that come to mind but really what I would do is I'd go back and I'd hold her I'd give her an energetic hug more than anything.
38:10.31
loriejones7
It's a big.
38:23.38
loriejones7
Are.
38:27.13
Ivana Polonijo
And really ah I'd give her an attitude of reassurance and that is what I wish I I was able to give myself at the time in real time. But if I could go back out. Give her an attitude of reassurance and maybe that would have looked like words like hey you know you're doing really? well.
38:34.70
loriejones7
And.
38:45.38
Ivana Polonijo
This is really hard what you're up against is really challenging would be challenging for everyone brene brown has this quote and she says um, it takes a lot of courage to rest and to play in this culture. And I may be you know, not quoting everywhere exactly correctly, but then the notion is in this culture of exhaustion where exhaustion is a status symbol. So when I'm you know, entering the workspace in eastern europe it was the same thing in Canada it was the same thing here in the the United States same thing.
39:08.68
loriejones7
Um, yeah, you.
39:22.89
Ivana Polonijo
And was noticing you know, overworking as a status symbol showing to my boss that I can you know stay up and finish things at midnight and then next day pull in a ten night a 10 hour day no problem and juggle and jiggle and if you know multiple projects and problems like.
39:38.93
loriejones7
Um, eat.
39:42.44
Ivana Polonijo
That that was that that meant strength and and um ability so assuring myself that like that's they don't know what they're talking about when they're talking about Exhaustion. They're talking about Burnout this. This is not going to lead to any place fruitful for anyone you're doing. You're doing fine and giving myself permission to retreat rest recharge.
40:02.22
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
40:07.72
loriejones7
Yeah I find that really interesting because I do find a lot of times that I'm sitting around at family reunions or something like that and all of my siblings are talking about how much they work. You know. How with how much they're awake how many hours they put in on their job. How much they travel you know and it is sort of seen as sort of a status symbol or ah or you know, ah well I I really made it because I'm working 12 hour days or 14 hour days and I even find. Self doing it. Um I find that really interesting that that there is a place for telling yourself. You know what? you don't have to overwork to be to to show up to be a good employee to to be um, useful.
40:57.66
Ivana Polonijo
Yeah, exactly exactly because we're talking about running on fumes. We're not talking about working hard here. It's not about it or many hours you know when I was creating some things from scratch right? You know that sometimes it will take it will take a lot of hours.
40:58.86
loriejones7
And.
41:16.92
Ivana Polonijo
But our work needs to be cyclical like everything in nature. There's a time to be really, you know, abundantly showing up and there's a time to take a break because then you were making sure the next time the situation calls for a lot of activity long hours. You've got.
41:34.10
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
41:34.87
Ivana Polonijo
If you're running on that attitude 24 7 three hundred and sixty five days a year ultimately there will be depletion and um and your system will ensure that you slow down it might look like an accident. It might look like breaking an ankle and then you have to go rest.
41:53.29
loriejones7
Um, so how do you recharge? Um, so that you can meet the next challenge that comes for you.
41:53.83
Ivana Polonijo
You can't physically run around as much.
42:03.40
Ivana Polonijo
Yeah, so for me I I was for a long time running on Perfectionism and I was overworking by default it was It was normal. It was really normal. So then I realized that you know I was paying some.
42:15.32
loriejones7
Um.
42:22.14
Ivana Polonijo
Big prices for that and health was giving up. That's why I gave this example in my case, they didn't break an ink call but I had some real big indigestion issues that I had to address that as soon as I started taking better care of myself and slowing down and eating differently. They they went away so I realized that okay, if I have inside of me. Um. An attitude of um project management towards everything that I'm doing let me use that to also then learn how to rest and take breaks and recharge. So I I started then looking at. Okay if I'm if I have this week in front of me, let me book sometime. To take a break and then let me get and this is different for everybody. You have to this is where it's it's a good idea to get to know yourself and understand your tendencies tendencies in terms of meeting internal and external expectations to be able to come up with something that really works for you. So I realized that if i. Block off some time and I call saturday I call it sabater day Saturday sabbatta day that means I am resting and relaxing and digitally detoxing and it's part of the weekly plan.
43:32.30
loriejones7
Here.
43:35.47
Ivana Polonijo
Then something inside me relax here's like we have to do this I'd sort of trick myself into it. We have to rest today and then also for me I'm not a Gretchen Rubin has this model where she asks people if they're abstainers or moderators.
43:47.10
loriejones7
Who.
43:50.56
Ivana Polonijo
So I'm an abstainer. It's easier for me to give up something altogether than to have a little bit of it. So if I'm wanting to let's say make a a change in how I eat sugar. It's easier for me not to eat white sugar at all than to just have a couple bites here and there my husband is different. He's a moderator. He can have half a cookie and stop. I can't so for me, it's more of an all and nothing so with this kind of abstaining thing knowing that about myself if I say to myself on Saturdays I am really not touching any electronics that's easier than saying just you know a little bit or here and there so I plan it I book the time.
44:26.30
loriejones7
Um, um.
44:29.32
Ivana Polonijo
And I also ask other people to hold me accountable because that's another thing I know about myself I am an obliger according to Gretchen Ruben again in her tendencies and that means that it's really easy for me to meet other people's expectations of me. But if I set something up for myself i'm.
44:47.14
loriejones7
So you find people I love that. But that's a great idea I didn't even think of that. That's great. Find someone else to hold you accountable every once in a while did you really not send the email at midnight Laurie or.
44:47.24
Ivana Polonijo
Not I'm going to dismiss myself easily so then like yeah yeah, exactly.
45:02.78
Ivana Polonijo
Yeah, exactly.
45:06.32
loriejones7
So um, what about unique challenges because of ah and because you were a woman did you face anything unique because of your gender in the workplace.
45:21.38
Ivana Polonijo
The word I would use is Wow was it prevalent so it was um and that's um, it became really obvious you know pretty quickly. But at first I was um. And didn't know what I was wait. What? what's going on here. What's going on here. But yeah I you know I've experienced the some of these um, let's see how how to put it line crossing in terms of.
45:55.21
loriejones7
You.
45:56.75
Ivana Polonijo
Comments um questions so you know perhaps I I was in my in my you know earlier years perhaps I was responsible for oversharing I also experienced during that time overtures from male colleagues that were absolutely inappropriate. And something that had no place in our in our work work setting. Um in one of my work situations I was working on numerous different projects but my um end was contributing in many different ways. But my.
46:21.13
loriejones7
Ah, here.
46:35.30
Ivana Polonijo
Because of my um I don't know if I want this you know published out there but I'll just I'll just say it and so then so that we can keep going. But maybe we cut this piece out like they put me basically at the reception desk only because I was female and so then I was doing a variety of different projects.
46:42.94
loriejones7
Ok. There is.
46:54.99
Ivana Polonijo
At their reception desk and it was sort of understood that that was that that was okay, um this piece we can and there's something about that I don't know why I'm not that comfortable about you know, putting that out there but ah 1 piece that I I we can. We can definitely include is.
46:58.73
loriejones7
A.
47:05.92
loriejones7
Yeah.
47:14.96
Ivana Polonijo
Lots of meetings where my role was same title as or perhaps even ah, a higher title than several other men in the room then all of a sudden in the middle of the meeting somebody has a need for a cup of coffee. Even though would you mind going to get the coffee now this wasn't an anomaly. It wasn't a 1 time thing. You know there was a culture of that and my other female coworkers were experiencing that too. We're all sitting in a meeting together very small number of females relative to males.
47:39.32
loriejones7
Um.
47:42.56
loriejones7
A.
47:48.52
loriejones7
Yeah.
47:51.59
Ivana Polonijo
Question about note taking comes up even if you're taking notes right? micro examples like that to big examples. There's one time I had a conversation with my boss at the time where I I prepared myself for this discussion but I asked him. Okay. So please help me understand and I'm very proud of this conversation because I was very calm and um and the preparation helped with that. How come that myself and this gentleman who started at the same time I did and is doing the exact same thing.
48:15.40
loriejones7
Um, and.
48:29.87
Ivana Polonijo
And as a matter of fact I have more from background standpoint more credentials more licenses and we are technically doing the exact same thing and as a matter of fact I'm doing significantly more because I'm also you've also asked me to do this thing and this other thing and this other thing. And he was kind enough to share with me his salary. We're not making the same The difference is radical and now you are also about to promote him to a new level with an increase in salary and I've been asking you for that exact same. Increase for now, let's say a year and it's still ah come back again and ask me later and come back again and ask me later. Please help me understand this I think 1 thing I'm really proud about that conversation was the curiosity that I felt I was really curious to to get it.
49:10.60
loriejones7
Um, and.
49:26.38
loriejones7
Um.
49:26.97
Ivana Polonijo
But there wasn't too much to understand and the forces you know behind this were were much bigger than than you know my my boss in his in his little office so that was you you said the word unique. It wasn't in you unique I was noticing it across my company I was a.
49:35.18
loriejones7
Ah.
49:45.79
Ivana Polonijo
Noticing it across the industry I started you know asking other women. Hey do you? What do you think about this have you noticed and that was the beginning of you know? um what today I would consider some research that I want to be doing and that I am doing with courageous being.
50:05.34
Ivana Polonijo
Storytelling sharing actual experiences you know here's I think we can all learn a lot from each other when we do that.
50:12.69
loriejones7
Ah, that well that is the entire premise behind the podcast is I feel like you can learn a lot from those who have done that been there and done it. So um, so did you get the raise.
50:25.16
Ivana Polonijo
I did but it took it took a while and the the delays so that I would say my entire career um in the 4 1 case space and the qualified plan space. Well I mean maybe financial services from the beginning like it really there was this. Delayed. Oh yeah, yeah, no problem it definitely yeah, totally makes sense. Yes, and let's wait three months six months a whole year before we make that happen that is a lot of lost income over. Let's say a 10 year span
50:51.88
loriejones7
A.
51:00.26
loriejones7
Um, so interesting. Ah what is the thing you are the most proud of.
51:02.60
Ivana Polonijo
So yeah.
51:13.75
Ivana Polonijo
Move.
51:22.60
Ivana Polonijo
You know I want to I want to I want to bring up external things I want to bring up my son I want to bring up my um, um, you know life here in the United States and it just doesn't feel. It feels like you know when it comes to my son that's his story.
51:35.50
loriejones7
This is.
51:38.55
Ivana Polonijo
And being proud of him I'm really proud of him. But really what I'm proud of is um, role modeling different way of you know, being with all the fumbles. So I think 1 thing that so where this is taking me then is.
51:46.14
loriejones7
Um, and.
51:57.75
Ivana Polonijo
I'm most proud of this resilience that I have to keep doing to keep showing up to keep doing inner work even when it's really not comfortable in role modeling than that for my kid or who I am super proud of who is showing up in this world as a conscious man.
52:04.31
loriejones7
Yeah.
52:16.61
Ivana Polonijo
And really you know talking to everyone around him differently with Grace Curiosity kindness and um and I know that has that has a lot to do with him paying attention to how I've been showing up in the world and how I've been treating myself. And I think he's learned a lot from ah from me about how not to do it. How not to treat myself and now you know? Ah hopefully I am role modeling this you know other way of of being. Yeah.
52:43.37
loriejones7
Oh I really love that answer I I talked to my eighteen or 1919 year old daughter the other day and she was talking about the women role models in her life and she said something about some of the. You know some of the things that I've done and shown her through the years and um, it was a little bit shocking to me that she was watching and paying attention and I was really proud of that too I can see that that you the thing that you want to pass down. To your children specifically and the next generation in general is that hey I maybe made some mistakes this is where I could have done better, but but um, these are things I did really well and watch them take those things that you've done really well and move them. On in their life. that's that's powerful
53:42.40
Ivana Polonijo
Thank you? yes.
53:44.00
loriejones7
So What about advice for a young lady who's just starting down her path. You are. Further along your path and and not near the end at all yet. But um, but much further along than some of them that are just starting Out. Do you have any advice for her.
54:06.11
Ivana Polonijo
Prepare enough to be present prepare enough to be present and then show up in that show up in the world and and communicate after you have taken um taken some steps to take care of your internal landscape.
54:20.55
loriejones7
Is it.
54:23.60
Ivana Polonijo
So one way to say this prepare enough to be present is like eyes on you eyes back on you and start on the inside begin within curiosity is key but again prepare enough to be present. That means you know, no um, self-bashing as you're getting ready for whatever this new adventure might be today. Ah, it's a waste of energy. It's a waste of time and it is going to be really depleting by the end by the end of that day.
54:59.28
Ivana Polonijo
And um presence you can't underestimate that. So what I mean by that is this ability to really show up strong and calm that is so needed in this world today where.
55:08.30
loriejones7
And.
55:17.80
Ivana Polonijo
It's chaotic out there. It's really chaotic so anyone of us who can find a way to demonstrate calm harmony in the face of chaotic external situations. We're contributing so much to each other and each other's well-being that way. And if you show up for any new endeavor with that internal attitude I promise you you'll have a much easier time recognizing who's an ally recognizing situations that are not a fit and then being comfortable with making mistakes. You'll recalibrate support will come suggestions will show up if you're present on the inside you'll recognize aha this yes open this is open I'm going to go through this conversation this door. Perhaps it is a new employer opportunity. This feels closed trusting yourself and um and following your intuition that is the biggest and most important resource to be investing in so prepare enough to be present and that is going to look different from 1 person to the next.
56:28.71
loriejones7
Oh I love that. That's really good. That's a really good thought prepare enough to be present. Well thank you Thank you so much even if for all your time today and for answering all the questions if people have questions about. How to find out more about you and the things that you do and some of the things that you talked about where did they go.
56:52.90
Ivana Polonijo
Our website courageousbeing.com it's a great place to explore what we do? Lots of very easy ways to contact us there and I um you know Laurie if you want in whatever way sharing my. Personal information I am available to connect I love as you can tell ah this sort of fire chat storytelling situation and if anybody wants to connect with me directly I'm happy to to talk. So I think Laurie you can probably share our.
57:25.26
loriejones7
Perfect.
57:26.17
Ivana Polonijo
Information in some fashion. But yeah, the website is a great place to start exploring the center.
57:30.20
loriejones7
Great. We'll add that link at the bottom of our podcast and again just thank you for spending this time with us today I've I've so looked forward to this and it it wasn't. It wasn't at all disappointing I came I came with a list of 3 or 4 different things to implement. So. Thank you so much.
57:51.60
Ivana Polonijo
Um, you're most welcome laie and pleasure is mine.
57:55.27
loriejones7
Okay, I'm gonna start the ah.