In this episode of Fearless Females, host Lorie Jones presents Cate Hollowitsch, the dynamic chief marketing officer of Nesnah Ventures, who transcended her introverted beginnings to become a powerhouse in the marketing world.
Cate recounts the pivotal moments that shaped her career, from the life-changing move to Honolulu at 18 to overcoming the challenges of being told she was “too much” in a male-dominated workplace. Discover how she embraced her authenticity, learned never to play small, and found a workplace that celebrated her vibrant energy and ideas. Plus, she offers valuable advice for young women starting their careers, encouraging them to be fearless in shining their light.
Tune in for an inspiring narrative of perseverance and the pursuit of personal truth in professional spaces, a must-listen for those ready to chart their fearless path.
Show Highlights:
- How tragedies can be your greatest teachers. [05:33]
- What’s your response to your talent being discouraged? [15:27]
- The importance of situational awareness with feedback. [20:17]
- Do workplaces lack bold change-making voices? [25:00]
- Why it’s better to value your past rather than regret it. [28:42]
- Find courage to align work and life later in your career. [31:54]
- The power of minimalism and letting go. [33:28]
- Tips to help your children become strong adults. [36:44]
- The “What am I choosing today?” dilemma of working mothers. [38:45]
- The No. 1 piece of advice for every early-career woman. [47:03]
00:01.15
Lorie Jones
Good morning. We are here today with Kate Hollowich. Sorry, I'm going to start that again. Hollowich. Okay, I'm going to start that again. Good morning. We're here today with Kate Hollowich. She is the Chief Marketing Officer of Nesna Ventures, and I am excited to hear what you do and all about your story. Kate, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:28.06
Cate
Thanks for having me, Laurie. I'm really excited to be here.
00:31.51
Lorie Jones
So I love reading. It's my favorite thing. So I always start out with an easy. Oh, I don't know. Some people think it's kind of a hard question picking just one, but I allow two or three answers.
00:43.92
Lorie Jones
There's no wrong answer here. What is your favorite book?
00:47.06
Cate
Oh, that is a hard question, isn't it?
00:48.35
Lorie Jones
I know.
00:50.11
Cate
I have two and they're not I mean, they're not business related at all. um Honestly, one of my beloved books is the Anne of Green Gables series.
01:01.72
Cate
They were the first chapter books that my grandmother gave me when I was a little girl and I reread them every year I just I just love them.
01:09.15
Lorie Jones
I know, I love it. And it brings back good memories and happy joys.
01:10.48
Cate
Yeah, so It does. And they're so wholesome and sweet. And she's such a little sassy stinker. And I just love it.
01:16.04
Lorie Jones
Oh, yeah.
01:16.40
Cate
I love girls that have a little sass.
01:18.35
Lorie Jones
Yeah, me too.
01:19.76
Cate
So I really love that one. And then I have another series of books that I love that are out of print now. It's called Wild Swan. And it was about a woman who created a horse racing um empire in the US in the late 1700s, 1800s.
01:35.60
Cate
And it's kind of an epic saga. I even named my daughter after one of the characters in the book. So that's my second favorite set of books, yeah.
01:41.77
Lorie Jones
Oh, really?
01:44.87
Lorie Jones
Oh, I love that. So are they still available? They're just not or something like that.
01:49.05
Cate
You know, that's a good question. You might be able to find them. i I know you could find them at a library. I don't know how many people are checking books out of a library these days, but they might be on a version of Amazon or Kindle or something.
02:00.77
Cate
I have like the like the original books that I found at a used bookstore years ago, and I refuse to get rid of them in case I ever want to reread them.
02:07.11
Lorie Jones
Oh, wow. Well, that sounds interesting.
02:10.39
Cate
It's very good.
02:10.43
Lorie Jones
I love history. And I like I just like the idea of saga. So well, those are great suggestions.
02:15.86
Cate
Wow.
02:16.35
Lorie Jones
Thank you. Let's start with telling me just a little bit about your journey. Like how did you get started? um You know, tell me a little bit about how you got where you're at today and kind of what you do.
02:27.97
Cate
Oh gosh, um, kind of a I don't it's not emotional that much anymore, but it used to be um I was very introverted as a child, I was, you know, kind of a very introverted I didn't like sleepovers I didn't want to be anywhere that my parents were not. I was really terribly shy I wanted to be a librarian.
02:49.50
Cate
or maybe a nun when I was a little girl. um But my mother passed away when I was a teenager. And ah my dad and my brothers kind of didn't handle it. Well, not that any of us handled things like this well in the 80s, but um somebody had to get stuff done. And I just suddenly wasn't introverted anymore. I figured out how to forge my dad's name and signed checks and paid the mortgage and the electric bill. and signed all the doctor's appointments for my brothers to get them out of school and nobody was the wiser even now as an adult people are like what like yeah I did all that my dad was like completely you know freaking out about it so I became very extroverted and very outgoing because I had to I had to figure out how to get stuff done and I grew up watching 80s business movies working girl secret of my success and I just thought oh
03:28.58
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
03:42.11
Cate
I want to live in a big city near an eight-story bank and I want to have this big business career and I took a marketing class in high school and I loved it and I've never looked back and it's just been it's been my path ever since and everything I've done since those days were designed to kind of get me on this path that I'm on right now and I've just always kind of been in this this industry. And of course, I've you know taken jobs that I shouldn't have done or moved halfway across the country in both directions, pursuing a promotion or another aspect of my career that I thought would get me further down the path and ah just kind of systemically chipped away at my career to get where I'm at.
04:29.23
Lorie Jones
So were you the oldest? um
04:31.79
Cate
No, I'm a middle, but I masquerade as the oldest.
04:34.58
Lorie Jones
Oh, do ya? Okay. And did you ever get your your big, your little apartment in the big city?
04:44.73
Cate
I did, I lived in a little rinky dink apartment in Honolulu near an eight story bank and it was horrifying.
04:54.97
Cate
It was awful. The cockroaches and the, I mean, it was just like, what the heck? You know, a small town, Midwestern Wisconsin girl, an 18 Johnsoft Honolulu. And I lived in the, it was just, so yeah, it was weird, but, but I did it. I lived in the big city and got that out of my system real fast.
05:18.41
Lorie Jones
I know, it always looks so glamorous on television. I guess they don't really show you the cockroaches, right?
05:24.38
Cate
No. No, everyone's like, you lived in Honolulu? I'm like, yeah, why?
05:31.13
Cate
Clearly, you've never been there for more than two weeks at a time.
05:33.92
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
05:34.02
Cate
Yeah, I love it. It's a lovely place for anybody in Honolulu, but it it's ah it takes some getting used to if you are from the Midwest.
05:40.18
Lorie Jones
Yeah, my My sister-in-laws lived there. Well, it was on the big island that they lived, but they used to tell stories about, like, you left a chip bag open, which my boys did, like, every other day, and you had, like, like cockroaches inside of it.
05:57.79
Lorie Jones
Bad.
05:57.95
Cate
Yes, everything was in the refrigerator.
05:58.91
Lorie Jones
The bug.
06:00.67
Cate
Peanut butter, cereal. We put everything in the refrigerator just because what they got in they figured out how to get into Tupperware. You could not keep cockroaches out of things.
06:11.99
Cate
So yeah, no.
06:12.90
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm out on the big bugs. I'll just go visit Honolulu.
06:17.40
Cate
Yeah, it's a lovely place to visit. Just go spend your money and then go back. Yeah.
06:21.23
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
06:22.14
Cate
Yeah.
06:22.41
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about, is there a time that you can look back or something that you can look back on and you can say, Oh my goodness, I'm so glad I made that investment in myself. Um, because if I hadn't have done that, I probably wouldn't be where I'm at today.
06:38.45
Cate
Honestly, I was packing up and moving to Honolulu. I mean, I was 18 and 19, I guess. I did one year of college in the Midwest. But the boy I was in love with at the time was living there. And so I decided, oh, I can go to school anywhere. So I packed up and off I went. And of course, my dad was like, are you nuts? And like I mentioned, it was horrifying. And it was magical all at the same time.
07:08.24
Cate
And I hated every minute of it. But in hindsight, you know now looking back, I can say that it was pivotal for me.
07:18.73
Cate
it And this was in the 90s before internets and cell phones. So I could only call home at midnight and I couldn't just reach out when I needed something. I knew nobody.
07:29.48
Cate
There was no social media to be connected to anybody. I had to figure it out. I had to get to know people. I had to find a job.
07:35.42
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
07:37.05
Cate
I had to get myself registered for school. I had to figure out how to live. The cost of living difference existed back then.
07:43.60
Lorie Jones
um yeah
07:45.29
Cate
That little apartment I'm joking about was in the 90s, $900 a month. I mean, that it was crazy money. It was just like, ah you know, unheard of.
07:56.94
Cate
And I learned a lot about myself and what I can tolerate and what I can't tolerate and how to be resilient. And it wasn't like I could go, Oh, well, this sucked. I'm going home.
08:06.31
Lorie Jones
Oh, yeah.
08:06.54
Cate
Like that wasn't, that's not how that worked.
08:08.01
Lorie Jones
Uh huh.
08:09.11
Cate
So I made the decision and I had to kind of make it work. So it, and I learned a lot in those years. It was pivotal.
08:16.98
Lorie Jones
So did you graduate from school there in Hawaii?
08:19.49
Cate
I did.
08:21.22
Lorie Jones
And and just as ah I'll date myself, i was in I was going to college in the 90s as well.
08:21.67
Cate
Yep.
08:27.08
Lorie Jones
And my rent was about $300 a month. So yeah.
08:31.49
Cate
Yeah, on a college student, non-income.
08:32.47
Lorie Jones
nine
08:36.31
Cate
I mean, it was and the it it it was just crazy town. I mean, I look back at it now and I'm like, what the hell was I thinking? But it ah if that kind of the power of being young
08:46.31
Lorie Jones
but
08:49.65
Cate
And you just don't have, you don't see obstacles or hurdles and you really do think you can take on the world and conquer anything. Because if I had to do it now with the wisdom I have now, I would do the same thing my dad did and be like, what? No, this is the worst mistake you could be making. So it it it was, I really kind of needed that, that inexperience and that overconfidence I had at that age.
09:15.96
Cate
in order to figure it out, but it it was pivotal to both my personal development and my career because it really did coming back then to the Midwest and I lived on the East Coast for a while too, seeing, you know, Hawaii Pacific University as my college really did get me indoors. Now, of course, people don't, it's not such a a thing of where you went to college and because there's online abilities, it isn't this it isn't this talking point anymore that it was for me. And it really it really did give me a leg up in a lot of interview situations because people were like, what? How did you end up there? And and it allowed me to kind of take the next, get the next jump. so
09:59.00
Lorie Jones
huh That's cool. That's neat. I didn't realize that it would open up so many doors just being, you know, being in a college in Hawaii, being a little bit
10:08.64
Cate
I didn't either. That was not my intention. It was total side effect. And afterwards, I was like, oh, well, that was pretty smart of me. But in the moment, I had no idea that it was going to create some opportunities for me that I wouldn't have had otherwise.
10:23.70
Lorie Jones
And and that just the act of like learning how to get things accomplished, the grit to kind of stay and do it, that's the kind of investment that you needed to make it through some of those later hurdles.
10:33.43
Cate
who
10:38.51
Cate
Yes. And honestly, and I, I, I dislike talking about a part of it just because it, I don't want to offend anybody and it's not my intent, but again, small town, Midwestern white Catholic girl. It was also my first experience with discrimination and being treated differently because of certain situations. There was a, um,
11:03.70
Cate
but definitely some culture shock two to being there. And all of a sudden, I didn't have the privilege there that I had in my hometown and in the situations that I grew up in. And so that was this, you know, five step backwards moment of what it like, what do you mean? I can't do X or, you know, they, I'm not sure if it's still this way, but back then,
11:33.32
Cate
you're the first three digits of the phone number and your zip code segregated what neighborhood you lived in. So like now, if you look at somebody's phone number, you don't necessarily have any idea what neighborhood in the city they live in.
11:48.41
Cate
But in Honolulu in the 90s, you could, you could tell even without the address and to apply for a job, you had to put your phone number because email wasn't a thing. So they had my phone number. And so, and cell phones didn't exist. So it was my home phone number. So it wasn't that ability to kind of, I don't want to say hide, but you know what I mean. That that didn't exist in the 90s. And every employer knew where I lived based on those three digits in that phone number and it was an ability to discriminate by not wanting certain folks in certain roles based on a assumption about the neighborhood they were living in and it was super frustrating. It was it was really frustrating.
12:37.66
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I, ah you know, when you have your first experience with some sort of discrimination or being pigeonholed or placed kind of somewhere that that it's harder to move and get out of it, it really is kind of eye opening. I can see that.
12:57.26
Lorie Jones
What about did you ever get some really bad advice? What is the worst advice someone gave you? And did you take the advice or did you ignore the advice? Maybe it was your dad saying, are you crazy?
13:11.38
Cate
Well, that's one. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I've had so much bad advice.
13:14.82
Lorie Jones
ah
13:14.96
Cate
um Always with the best of intentions. Let's just assume everyone has good intentions.
13:17.24
Lorie Jones
Right.
13:20.00
Cate
um I had a boss that used to tell me I was too much. It was just a constant conversation between us of you are too much. You have to tone it down.
13:31.26
Cate
You are always talking in meetings. You always have an opinion. You. ah You're constantly thinking up the next big thing when we haven't finished your first idea like it was this continual battering ram of tone it down because you're making it harder for the rest of us to succeed.
13:43.12
Lorie Jones
ah
13:50.08
Cate
And you know when it's coming from a boss, you feel like you have to do what you're told. but It always felt like you're telling me to dim my light or you're telling me to not be who I am. and and it just you know you kind of it was a i don't I don't want to say I followed the advice, but it was definitely that sensation of, am I following this advice or am I doing my own thing? or you know You kind of behave a little bit, but then
14:23.02
Cate
you end up being who you are at the end of the day anyway. And then the advice would come back up again. And it just was it just was a constant struggle for years of do I do this? Am I supposed to tone it down? And there was I had a mentor in that organization and she really made a pivotal pivotal statement to me and her comment was never play small.
14:50.70
Cate
so that somebody else feels better about themselves. And it was that light bulb moment of that advice was not coming from a place of making me better. It was coming from a place of making them feel better about themselves.
15:04.86
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
15:05.28
Cate
And I instantly stopped. And I actually left that job within six months of that advice. It was like, as soon as I realized I am who I am, and I don't have to play small so that person feels better,
15:17.32
Cate
i know I'm out and i've I never looked back.
15:18.53
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
15:21.82
Cate
so it was it's It's interesting when you put a lot of stock in the words of someone who has power so to speak over you or influence over your career or your personal life or whatever the thing is and how you really struggle with is that intended to benefit me?
15:39.18
Cate
Is that how do I take this? What do I do with it? Is it worthwhile advice or is it really about them trying to benefit themselves or further their own agenda for whatever reason?
15:49.88
Lorie Jones
I think that that mentor was really wise then with what she said because it you know because you do you do kind of get a message sometimes especially from those at authority which is kind of sit down and be quiet don't make waves don't don't you know try
15:50.64
Cate
and
15:55.92
Cate
who
16:10.08
Lorie Jones
I've been in that position where they're like, you have too many ideas to tone it down.
16:16.34
Cate
Yeah.
16:17.47
Lorie Jones
Just, you're giving us too much. And, and I've been called that before too much, you know, and, and it it's really is so difficult.
16:19.88
Cate
Yes.
16:26.63
Lorie Jones
I mean, to, to hear that advice and not take it because no, the other people around you don't look like you. I mean, they don't,
16:37.77
Lorie Jones
they They don't have that, even if, yeah i'm and I'm not even talking gender, I'm talking like they just don't, most people don't, they do tone it down. It's hard to keep your authenticity.
16:53.66
Cate
Yeah, and there's a ring of truth to it because I i am self aware and I do know who I am and what I am.
16:53.82
Lorie Jones
so
16:58.52
Cate
And when somebody says to me, you're too much, there's a part of me that's like, yeah, I know. I am like, I don't disagree with you. But so there is a ring of truth to that advice, which is where that sensation of pausing and kind of taking it to heart came from of Yeah, I am.
17:15.25
Cate
I know I'm always, you know, so it wasn't wrong. It was just more about the reasons for it and the when and the why. It's different when someone says in church, you're too much, you know, versus in a brainstorm meeting. Like there's a context to when that that feedback was coming at me that I was misplacing. I was misplacing the context of it.
17:41.08
Lorie Jones
So did you just find courage? Like, as it, because after that, it sounds like you, you went in authentically in your positions and stuff like that. And kind of behaved.
17:50.74
Cate
Mm hmm.
17:53.20
Lorie Jones
How did you, was it just the courage to behave authentically or did you deliberately, like, how did that happen?
18:03.67
Lorie Jones
Like, I don't know how to be that brave.
18:03.91
Cate
You know, that's honestly, wow. Okay, well, I could take a lot of credit here, but I don't know that I can because I, I had the brave moment of just putting more stock in that mentor's advice and thinking,
18:20.95
Cate
And I'm at an age, I'm middle age. you know i We all kind of get to that middle age point too, where we get to say, I don't have to be who I'm not anymore. i'm kind of I've earned my rights.
18:31.47
Cate
you know And I guess her statement to me was wasn't a permission, per se, but more of a ah nudge to
18:31.83
Lorie Jones
Okay.
18:43.27
Cate
to think about what the reason was behind the feedback. So even now, if somebody says to me, you're too much, and it's because I'm in church talking at the top of my lungs or something, legit, right?
18:54.38
Lorie Jones
ah Yeah.
18:55.14
Cate
Like now there's ah an ability for me to kind of think about the context and the situation around when someone is giving me feedback like that so that I can decide for myself, no I'm not. I'm not being too much at the office or I'm not being too much in this moment, but in that moment I am and and so being situationally aware to when I turn it on and off. But when I realized that that particular situation where that bad advice was coming from was coming from a place of that individual didn't want me to be more than they were.
19:30.45
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. Yeah.
19:32.07
Cate
Too bad, so sad.
19:33.42
Lorie Jones
yeah
19:33.55
Cate
Like, I don't care. You figure out your own junk. I got my own junk to figure out. You figure out your own junk. I'm not changing mine so that you don't have to figure out yours. Not happening. And then it became this courage to say, no, I heard you, but no, sorry.
19:49.54
Cate
And just kind of walk away from it. And then It also made me realize that I was never gonna fit in that, i the company, the organization, sure, but in that little microcosm of it within that department under that situation, no, I wasn't gonna fit.
20:04.69
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. That wasn't yours.
20:07.70
Cate
And so my choice is are either to find a different role within the same company or leave altogether.
20:08.05
Lorie Jones
and
20:13.18
Cate
And I did try to find a different role in the same place and it didn't work. And so I decided I need a new adventure.
20:20.18
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
20:20.28
Cate
It's time for me to sail my ship someplace else and I happened to have just landed in a place where that's exactly what they hired me for. They hired me because I'm too much and that's what they needed. They needed a burst of that and they've let me spread my wings and do all the things and I think If I had to list like the 10 greatest moments of my career, maybe six to seven of them have been in the new situation.
20:51.10
Lorie Jones
Uh huh.
20:51.83
Cate
like It's been this instant when when the stars align and you find that place where you can just do the things that you are really good at and do them well and with the best of intentions for yourself or the organization you're working for, whatever your employment situation is,
21:11.58
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
21:12.26
Cate
It's unlimited.
21:13.61
Lorie Jones
i think I think it's important to mention here too. like Sometimes that's a scary transition. um Sometimes when before you make that that change to the new company that lets you be who you are and let's you and they hire you because of those gifts and and that thing, you you look at it and you're like, but I'm scared.
21:36.82
Lorie Jones
you know what if What if I'm not enough?
21:36.87
Cate
Yeah.
21:38.72
Lorie Jones
What if it doesn't work out? Blah, blah, blah. But you know looking at it from the other side and going back and looking back, we're so glad you made that leap and you and you took that chance.
21:50.86
Lorie Jones
um And I think that it's hard to do, but I've never, I've done a lot of these interviews now and I've never heard a single person say, I'm so um sad that I tried something, you know?
22:07.95
Lorie Jones
They always say, they always tell me my regret is not trying something rather than trying it and failing even.
22:12.43
Cate
Yes. Yep. Yep. Yep. Because yes, I mean, lots of people start a new job and they're scared to start a new job. And sometimes it doesn't work out and they either go back or they do yet another new job.
22:24.25
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
22:24.34
Cate
Like that is an everyday occurrence. I don't know that you and I are ever going to run into anybody that has had one single job their whole entire life anymore. It's just not a thing.
22:33.09
Lorie Jones
Mm-mm.
22:33.85
Cate
And so everybody has done that. Everybody has stood on that precipice and said, i must I'm scared to make this change, but I literally have to. I have a no choice. Sometimes you literally don't.
22:44.80
Cate
It's forced upon you if you're laid off or whatever.
22:45.08
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
22:47.74
Cate
And everybody leaves a job for their own reasons. They didn't get a promotion or they got headhunted. I mean, all of those moments are scary. but And even if they don't work out, you just pivot again.
23:01.72
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
23:02.70
Cate
I mean, sometimes it really is that simple. It does not mean it's less scary or frightful or financially difficult, but we've many of us have done that same pivot several times over our lives.
23:13.23
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm and try it No No, no, they're not it and it used to be not during my career but before us it was like Long time you stayed with one company your whole career and that isn't the case So what about
23:15.11
Cate
And kids these days, right? Kids these days, nobody stays in a job for four or five years anymore.
23:31.86
Cate
Yeah. Yeah. Nope.
23:38.63
Lorie Jones
um Thinking back over your journey and your career, is there a situation where you're like, oh my goodness, if I knew then what I know now, I totally would have handled that differently.
23:51.60
Cate
oh, um yes, I probably have a lot of those moments as well. And it kind of stems from that too much problem because there have been many moments in my career where I have literally just said the thing. And I i think every company I've ever worked for, I am that person. Everybody that has a beef or a problem or a thing,
24:17.89
Cate
They all sit around and wait because they know if they wait long enough Kate will say it, and it's kind of, it's been a joke. Everywhere I've been of like, well we don't have to speak up because if we wait long enough you'll do it, and they're right. And so there's been a lot of those oh moments where I have been the mouthpiece for a group of folks.
24:39.78
Cate
And it's not awesome. Sometimes it's been like, oh, ah you know, but just because I said what everyone else was thinking. um I it's another one of those I just I don't know how to turn that off or if I want to because not saying it isn't okay.
24:56.59
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
24:56.62
Cate
And yeah, I took the bullet for everybody multiple times. And I don't get a thank you and I don't get a oh my gosh, we're so sorry and I don't get a I promise I'll say it next time they still don't because they don't have They don't have the spinal cord that I have, apparently. I don't know. But it's just things have to be said. And change isn't going to happen if you're going to weak knee and and you know kind of hide under the skirts of somebody else. um And if I've got to be that person that's going to say the thing that nobody else is brave enough to say, fine.
25:29.39
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I, sometimes i i I tend to be mama bear, so I will say the thing if it's for someone else. If it's for me, sometimes I sit back and take it.
25:41.76
Cate
yeah
25:42.87
Lorie Jones
But but but if there there is a group that is but is feeling the same way, sometimes you'll stick your head out there.
25:43.52
Cate
Yep.
25:50.83
Lorie Jones
And it does feel scary a little bit.
25:53.36
Cate
Yep, yep, it is. And the backlash is often not awesome. And then there's a little more scared because sometimes there's days between the backlash, or, you know, like, I'm just going to hide in my office and hope that, you know, so the it's not awesome sometimes to to be the fearless one all the time but um I can sleep at night.
26:15.33
Lorie Jones
yeah
26:15.60
Cate
That's kind of how I look at it is I feel like I go home every day fighting for everybody else or fighting for the things that are the right thing to do or saying the stuff that needs to be said because change has to happen or something has to occur and it ultimately if it if it isn't what that other group wants to hear, or it isn't the way they want me to behave, then we're back to the issue of I might not be a fit.
26:41.72
Cate
You know, if it becomes that, that's never been the case.
26:41.85
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
26:44.00
Cate
But um it just a I can't go home at night feeling like I left something unsaid that needed to be said.
26:50.59
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
26:51.59
Cate
And I I approach conflict that same way too. If I'm having it with somebody, I go right down there and I don't give them any chance. Like I'm not really good with the people that need to think and ponder.
27:03.01
Cate
It's, if something is off in a relationship, I'm on it. Like we're having a conversation right now and it's, I got to say it and we've got to, cause I can't go home feeling like we're not in agreement or alignment or um friendly compatible, whatever the situation is.
27:20.10
Lorie Jones
you
27:21.96
Cate
I have to address the icky things about relationships or moments right when they happen.
27:28.20
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I have a little bit of that too. I'm a little bit direct.
27:31.43
Cate
Yes.
27:32.60
Lorie Jones
And and that it's it's a not frictionless existence. There's some friction sometimes, so that's hard.
27:39.35
Cate
Yep.
27:41.35
Lorie Jones
If you could go back and talk to your younger self. You moved to Hawaii when you were 19. Is that what you said?
27:47.39
Cate
who
27:48.08
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
27:48.53
Cate
yep
27:48.61
Lorie Jones
So so talk to yourself at 19, 18, 19, 20. If you could tell her or something, what would it be?
27:57.77
Cate
Oh gosh, that is a hard question. Um, I think, I think people would assume that I would tell myself not to marry the boy that I chased after, but I wouldn't actually say that he's a dear friend.
28:15.28
Cate
And you know so starter husbands are like starter homes. you know They hold a warm place in your heart and you loved them and they were a perfect fit and everything was great and cozy and then you just outgrow them. And um we're very good friends, we're very good parents together. And I wouldn't tell my younger self not to do that. It's hard to say what is the thing you would say because All of those things happened for a reason and all of it led me to where I'm at.
28:44.73
Cate
I have my lovely children because of that time. there's just There isn't much that I would say to do differently because it all had to happen in order for me to have the great life I have right now.
28:58.85
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
28:59.83
Cate
So i it kind of ruins it in a way, you know, to think about what would I tell her because and wouldn't I don't want it to play out any different than it did.
29:11.30
Cate
As hard and awful as some of it was, it just needed to be the way that it would be.
29:11.32
Lorie Jones
I love Don't give her a heads up on anything because she might have changed the way she did stuff, huh?
29:20.78
Cate
No. Yeah, yeah. I mean, unless there's some way to just kind of generically say, you'll be fine.
29:31.28
Lorie Jones
yeah
29:31.48
Cate
Like, you know, like, you'll be fine. Just, it's going to suck, but you'll be fine.
29:33.36
Lorie Jones
yeah
29:35.33
Cate
I don't know something like that, but you know, some of my greatest friendships are from those early years.
29:35.43
Lorie Jones
and
29:43.04
Cate
The kind of finding of myself and that resilience that I have came from all of that. And of course my children and my friendship with my first husband. And it just, I don't know.
29:54.34
Cate
There's just a lot about it that had to be the way it had to be.
29:54.50
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
29:59.48
Lorie Jones
What scared you the most when you first started on your journey or during you know your your career path? Was there anything that scared you and does it still or did you learn how to overcome it?
30:11.85
Cate
You know, I think I've got scared as I got older, which is weird. I think, again, that like 19 year old fearless take on the world, I got this, I can do anything. like I think nature gives us that for a reason.
30:23.18
Cate
Cause otherwise we wouldn't do anything.
30:23.34
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
30:25.51
Cate
So I think there was a little bit of that. I think also because at that time in my life I was still grieving actually and hadn't dealt with it. You know, mental health therapy wasn't talked about back then the way that it is now.
30:35.41
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
30:36.66
Cate
And I had not received counseling until I was older. And so I just honestly think I was numb to a lot of things back then, which just allowed me to do dumb stuff. Like I, and I say dumb lightly, um,
30:50.72
Cate
not well thought out things, you know. and to do it with no plan. And just like, oh, we'll figure it out. um Because that's just what I thought I would do. i I really didn't know any better. And as I got older, I got more scared. As my life got bigger, once I had children, then it became, I can't do these crazy bonehead things like move across the country to chase a boy because I've got two children that are depending on me. And I can't go back to school because now I've got three children depending on me. And you know they just became, I have a mortgage and I have,
31:21.37
Cate
I can't go off on my own and be a consultant and not work in corporate America because I need health insurance. you know there's As I got older, there were all these reasons why um taking a chance or doing something bold.
31:36.61
Cate
Was holding me back or the people telling me you can't you're a terrible writer You can't write but you know those became the fear that said well I can't write a book because so-and-so said I'm a terrible writer and so it it I think it was later in my life that fear held me back and prevented me from doing things and that's why I say when I Came to where I'm at now If I think about the top 10 moments in my career, at least six of them have happened while I've been here. So five years or less.
32:10.85
Cate
because that fear doesn't exist here. I don't have people telling me, I can't write, I can't do this. So in the last five years, I did a TEDx talk, I wrote two books, I've been promoted. I mean, there's just been all of these great things that have happened. I've launched several keynotes. I've been speaking at conferences in a way that I never did five years ago.
32:33.66
Cate
And I'm helping other people find their their roles in organizations and their leadership development. And it's all happened at this end of my career because now I'm in a situation where I don't have something holding over me that's telling me I can't do it.
32:55.38
Lorie Jones
That's interesting. That's an interesting thought that you're a little bit braver, a little bit more fearless when you don't have a whole lot to lose. But as you get more in your life, it gets harder to face those fears.
33:11.10
Cate
It's actually the topic of my TEDx talk because my husband and I took a path of minimalism and that's what kind of encouraged me to do that is this the mortgage the the House the kids the cars the boats the vacation homes all of it now suddenly I have more to lose and so then it becomes I'm not going to take a risk at that job or putting money into the cost of publishing a book or paying for my own charges to go do a TEDx talk because I can't afford to lose or to dip into our savings in case one of us loses our job or one of us dies or you know whatever the thing is like I can't take that risk because I have all this other stuff I have to hold up.
33:53.96
Cate
But I also realized that I was making decisions at work also to support that. So I was making business decisions about how to spend marketing money or what activities to do for that organization in a way that would benefit my bonus.
34:08.79
Cate
or in a way that would ensure a promotion, or that would ensure that we hit our profit margins, or would ensure that my budget wasn't in a weird spot where I would get put in the hot seat. So I was making decisions to also further my own personal agenda, which many of us do. And so and that is self-preservation, that we're self-preserving the more we have, the more we amass, the more we have to lose.
34:34.36
Cate
And ah when our kids graduated from college, I told my husband, we if we sell their bedrooms, they can't come home. It's kind of a benefit. Love them, but you're on your own. um And we have less stuff, and I love to travel. And I never got a chance to do that either in those years because there was always the mortgage, and there was always insurance, and there was always you know all the stuff. And the car would break down just as we were getting ready to do whatever. And I just got sick of it. I just got sick of,
35:04.34
Cate
being trapped by my crap yeah you know and then all of our parents died my my mother had died when i was younger but our parents all kind of passed within six or seven years of each other after that. And so then it was just this, um you know, legacy cleaning and rice cookers and bread makers and photography, like just all this stuff. And then it all kind of ended up, and now we have even more stuff. And then we had to have a storage unit. I mean, it just suddenly became, we're living to take care of all this crap that nobody cares about. And our kids are gonna throw it away when we die anyway, cause they don't know what it is. They don't care.
35:42.94
Cate
So we just just downloaded we went from almost 5000 square feet to 900 and we just got rid of everything. We paid off all the debt and we just do whatever we want and we travel a lot and.
35:59.02
Cate
I'm not making those decisions at work anymore because I don't need to. I don't need to make ah a decision at work that furthers my own agenda or ensures that I'm going to get a bonus. I'm making a decision at work that's in the best interest of the organization and that benefits the vast majority of folks, not me personally, and and helps make sure that the whole organization moves forward in a way that's beneficial because I'm not sitting here holding on to all these things that I'm trying to
36:30.54
Lorie Jones
That makes sense.
36:30.58
Cate
to keep a hold of. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a game changer is letting hitting that age where I can just kind of let go of all that crap that I don't need. And and we still have room for the kids to come home.
36:42.07
Cate
They just, we make it uncomfortable so they don't stay. So they they stay a few days and they're like, we're going home like, okay, great. Love you. Bye. See you in a couple of weeks.
36:48.92
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, enjoy it. I know.
36:51.77
Cate
Yep.
36:54.09
Lorie Jones
I just built my um built a downstairs room for one of my kids who's who's here until he graduates from college. So I i dream of the day that they're all going to be fully supporting themselves out and and ready to take on the world.
37:10.03
Cate
Yep.
37:13.95
Lorie Jones
so and then Right.
37:14.70
Cate
Yes, and we want to be their their safe haven when something does go wrong. And they have all flocked back to us at various points. But we also ensure that we are going to give you a leg up and we're going to help.
37:24.94
Cate
But you've got to do this on your own.
37:26.47
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
37:26.79
Cate
Sometimes that means I will give you my old beater car and I'll go get another one because I can afford a car payment. Then you don't have to have one. But it's never these kind of you know move home and mooch off us and never move yourself further ahead.
37:40.66
Cate
we've We've really navigated that balance of you guys have got to find your own way, but we're not going to let you fail.
37:42.88
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
37:47.46
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. that if That's the hardest part of parenting in my opinion.
37:48.31
Cate
Yeah.
37:51.17
Lorie Jones
It's just giving them the freedom to do what they need to do and the courage and the skills and the leg up without giving them too much. That's hard. It's just hard.
38:01.42
Cate
Right, right, right. um I don't want them to have the experience I had in my teenage years and in my 20s and my college life, but I kind of do. Because where are they getting that resilience?
38:12.61
Cate
Where are they learning to take care of themselves? Where are they learning to figure it out if everything we do is handed to them?
38:19.23
Lorie Jones
yeah it's not Yeah.
38:19.35
Cate
And we don't you know we don't want that either. So there's a little bit of, I know you're suffering, And I'm not going to help you out. You know what I mean? It's a, it's a hard, as a parent, it's hard to kind of stand back and let that happen.
38:31.46
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
38:31.73
Cate
But and also knowing that, you know, sometimes it has to, because that's where they're going to pull up that same grit and resilience that we have, that we want them to be able to function with later too.
38:41.97
Lorie Jones
Yeah. So, hmm. Kate, did find did you find any unique challenges through your career path um because you were a woman?
38:53.81
Cate
Well, yes, because that whole issue of you're too much, it's like nobody says that to men. I've never in my life heard anybody say to a man, you're too much.
38:59.87
Lorie Jones
True.
39:03.19
Cate
It doesn't happen. And the whole like, oh, you're too aggressive. Like, I know this is all kind of something you've heard a million times in other interviews you've done, but it is.
39:13.82
Cate
It is still kind of that moment of, and am I too much? Like, is this not? female like of me to behave the way I'm behaving or why you know the um the issue of like an in conversations at work while in my younger days, well, when are you going to have kids and how is that going to impact your career? Like, well, did you ask that guy that question?
39:39.48
Cate
course they didn't. They don't ask the guy that question. And like, why does having a baby have anything to do with my ability to do my job? And you and I both know it's hard. And it is a burden on us that is not necessarily a burden on other people. And it it's all It's all give and take.
39:59.65
Cate
And you and I did it in the days when there was not laptops and there was no work from home. Like if my kids got sick, I was out.
40:07.96
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
40:08.37
Cate
There was nothing I could do. I could not take work home. There was, I mean, it was just, I don't even know. I look back on it now in a blur and think, how the heck did I navigate two kids as a single mother in the late nineties when there wasn't this flexibility and functionality that we have now?
40:25.82
Cate
And wow.
40:27.67
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
40:28.38
Cate
But yeah, it was those were some I think those were probably the most the the most significant um outward facing challenges is navigating my ambition and my desire for a big career with my desire to be a kick-ass mom.
40:43.70
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
40:46.55
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Hard.
40:48.87
Cate
Hard, really, really hard.
40:49.82
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
40:52.46
Cate
Internally, same struggle. Internally, my struggle was, All right, what am I choosing today?
40:59.09
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
41:00.40
Cate
I mean, ah you and I probably have sent our kids to school with tummy aches. Like, you know what?
41:05.81
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
41:06.74
Cate
Just go and see how long you can make it.
41:06.95
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I- Call me if you throw up.
41:08.75
Cate
If you start puking, I'll come pick you up. But can you at least make it to lunch?
41:12.12
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
41:15.23
Cate
I don't even know how many times. I'm like all red in the face even thinking about how many times I sent my poor child off to school sick because I had a meeting that I couldn't get out of.
41:19.94
Lorie Jones
I know, I know, I know my big, um, but my big mom secret is that secret, not secret is that my kids were, uh, my older kids were a little bit older by the time I went to work.
41:23.88
Cate
but
41:36.64
Lorie Jones
So if I had a daughter that was sick, I would make one of the older kids stay home. ah
41:45.66
Lorie Jones
because I couldn't and so they took turns. They probably missed more school during those years.
41:51.75
Cate
Oh my gosh.
41:52.28
Lorie Jones
Yeah. is Yeah.
41:54.69
Cate
Oh, you know, the things we've done out, right? Don't you look back on the sound. You're like, what the heck was I thinking?
41:59.24
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
42:01.81
Cate
But you just kind of, it's just this opportunity cost. of we're We're making those choices literally every darn day and every minute of the day.
42:09.33
Lorie Jones
yeah
42:11.21
Cate
And you just kind of play one end against the other and hope that it all evens out over their lifetime. So.
42:18.67
Lorie Jones
and And now looking at it, like as we we get into positions that are more higher up in companies or you know entrepreneurial or stuff like that, like trying to look back and make make their jobs, you know these women that are coming up and having kids and dealing with daycare and dealing with that sort of thing.
42:38.43
Lorie Jones
like We know how we wanted it to be.
42:41.83
Cate
Mhm.
42:42.00
Lorie Jones
if is Are there ways we can change our work environment so that they can have an easier road?
42:47.24
Cate
Yeah.
42:49.86
Lorie Jones
because i I would hate for them to have to choose which kid to keep out of school. or
42:55.95
Cate
Yeah. Yeah.
42:56.92
Lorie Jones
ah
42:57.48
Cate
And it's ah it's a reality for me. My number two is coming back from maternity leave next week or the week after. And she gave birth in August. And she was really stressed out about coming back and taking three months.
43:12.46
Cate
And I said, you can take as long as you want. I mean, I am going to hold the job for you because you're awesome. and it's not The job is not at risk. It doesn't mean you get paid for it.
43:24.67
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
43:24.71
Cate
but if you And if if the health insurance isn't the issue and all the things being equal, if you want to take six months, take six months. And some people around here were like, what?
43:33.39
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
43:37.26
Cate
You can't do that. I'm like, yes, I can't. What do you mean I can't do it?
43:42.09
Cate
She can take as much time as she needs. It doesn't mean she's getting paid, but what do you mean I can't? It's crazy town.
43:48.12
Lorie Jones
yeah
43:48.63
Cate
so And even you know coming back then, it's, yeah, sometimes the kids are going to get sick and you got to leave at 3. But we also have plenty of work to do that could be done. So check your emails at 10 o'clock at night, or do this thing on a Saturday morning, or like it's all going to get done.
44:04.67
Cate
And whether that's happening while she's sitting at a desk or leaving at three o'clock to deal with those things and then doing it on a Saturday morning or something, I just, I think people have to not kind of split the hair on those details so much. If the jobs are getting done and we can provide a little bit of flexibility to make it more successful for families like that, then why wouldn't we?
44:30.99
Lorie Jones
Yeah, 100% agree.
44:33.97
Cate
The different story, if the person is a crappy employee or something, you know, would I be doing the same thing?
44:37.70
Lorie Jones
Right.
44:39.13
Cate
No. And, and, and would I trust them with the flexibility of doing it at different days or nights if they were not a rock star employee? No. But that's part of the benefit of being a rock star employee is you do get some of that grace when the chips are down.
44:57.79
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So Kate, what is the thing you're most proud of?
45:06.20
Cate
Oh, I'm gonna cry. My daughter just had a baby right before Christmas. And they named her after me.
45:12.66
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
45:14.44
Cate
So I'm very proud of that. I'm also very humbled by it because of course I feel like I don't deserve it sometimes. um So now I have to feel like do I Should I start behaving?
45:26.14
Cate
What kind of role model am I for this human?
45:27.06
Lorie Jones
ye
45:29.24
Cate
I don't know what to do with this. of Do I have to start being a better person or did they obviously named her after me knowing who I am and what I'm like? so I don't know what they're doing to this kid.
45:40.88
Cate
yeah It's a lot. And we're talking two weeks. So I get to see her tonight and go get snuggled. So I'm very excited.
45:47.96
Lorie Jones
Um, that's exciting.
45:47.96
Cate
um But I'm and very proud of that. Because obviously, I did something, right? I don't know what it is. But I did something, right, that in you know inspired my daughter to name her human after me.
45:58.83
Cate
And I'm not a middle name, like the first name.
46:01.42
Lorie Jones
oh and
46:01.45
Cate
So I hear my name coming out of all of these people's mouths when they're talking to this little baby. and it's It is something to be proud of because I must have done something pretty awesome somewhere.
46:14.27
Cate
so
46:14.60
Lorie Jones
I love that. I love that. That's so it is so funny, but it's so he just made me laugh. But you also touched my heart because that just really is to have to have them look at the example that you set and what you've done through your life and be proud enough to, ah like you said, name another human after you. How amazing. That's that's really neat.
46:39.59
Cate
Yeah, and it's still just a shock. I'm still just a little bit like, i they they must not know everything I've done.
46:48.34
Cate
clearly clearly they don't. But yeah, it's yeah, so I'm, I'm just kind of in that weird reflective mood of, you know, do I have to start being a better and even better person?
46:59.82
Cate
I don't even know. um But somebody at work, a good friend of mine here at the office said, well, they they know who you are, and they still did it. So I'm pretty sure they don't want you to be different.
47:10.90
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
47:11.06
Cate
So I probably won't.
47:12.66
Lorie Jones
You're good.
47:12.94
Cate
It's much like the you're too much kind of advice of I'm probably still just going to be exactly who I am. And The kid's going to have to deal with it.
47:21.87
Lorie Jones
Oh, I love it. I think that's so neat. And I'm so jealous. You've got a grandkid. I keep.
47:25.62
Cate
I have two. ah she's the i've She is a two-year-old brother. So I've got two little grandbabies. Yeah, and they're just delightful. it It really is the best thing ever. People say it's the it's the best thing ever. they Yeah, they're just wonderful humans. It's so much fun.
47:27.32
Lorie Jones
Oh.
47:31.99
Lorie Jones
Oh.
47:37.43
Lorie Jones
I love it.
47:42.08
Lorie Jones
So any advice for a young woman who is just starting down the path that you're so successful at, at the beginning of her career, anything you want to, any advice you want?
47:51.75
Cate
Yes, you know what? I am gonna tell that person what that mentor told me. Never play small to make somebody else feel better about themselves. Don't do it it. That is their issue, it's not your issue. So you be you, and you do your thing. And if your light doesn't fit in somebody else's basket, then find a new basket.
48:15.95
Lorie Jones
I probably could have used that advice years ago myself. So I love that.
48:21.05
Cate
Yep, it was a game changer for me, so hopefully it helps somebody else.
48:26.62
Lorie Jones
Well, Kate, thank you so much for spending some time with us today and just sharing your journey and sharing your path and your insights and and your experiences. And I really have appreciated it. If I have a listener that wants to get in touch with you and ask more questions or um how did they do that?
48:44.14
Cate
I love connecting with people. but And my name is so unique. I'm the only one on Earth. So I'm very easy to find on LinkedIn. So if you just Google my name on LinkedIn, and even if you just Google me, all of my stuff will come up because I'm the only human with this name. So I'm pretty easy to find. LinkedIn is awesome. And then you can send me a DM and we'll connect offline.
49:04.52
Lorie Jones
Well, perfect. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
49:07.34
Cate
Thank you for having me. This was so fun.