In this inspiring episode, host Lorie Jones welcomes Natalie Levy, a trailblazer in the world of finance and the founder of She’s Independent. Once told that women don’t belong in finance, Natalie defied the odds by carving her own path on Wall Street and now leads an angel investment group aimed at empowering women to make significant money moves.
Throughout their conversation, Natalie shares her remarkable journey, highlighting her transition from a lone woman in derivatives trading to a powerful advocate for diversity in financial decision-making. Full of heart and humor, Natalie reveals the trials she faced, the triumphs she achieved, and the crucial importance of raising one’s voice—even in spaces that feel exclusive.
Tune in to explore how Natalie is not just advocating for change but embodying it, and learn valuable lessons on authenticity and self-trust for women looking to lead fearlessly.
Show Highlights:
- The power of an early habit of defying the odds to become a Natalie Levy. [04:06]
- The uncomfortable irony for women who successfully break into Wall Street. [06:25]
- Why girls should be encouraged to find their voice to catalyze meaningful life paths. [11:58]
- Discover how understanding neurodiversity can empower you. [13:56]
- Are you afraid to show up authentically at the office? [20:40]
- Finding strength to stand on merit despite the MRS degree prejudice. [21:38]
- The muscle test to know when to listen to or discard advice. [27:43]
- The art of the interview to face a phenomenal interviewer. [30:47]
- How Natalie Levy has honored and healed from significant loss. [32:06]
- Advice for young women on keeping femininity and gaining financial literacy. [41:08]
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.34
Lorie Jones
Good morning. So today we're here with Natalie Levy. She is the founder and managing partner of She's Independent. And I've just had a minute or two to kind of get to know Natalie. And I'm so excited for you guys to hear her story. I can hardly wait. In fact, I said, I said afterwards, just stay around for a minute so I can ah ask all the questions that are bubbling up. So Natalie, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:28.15
Natalie Levy
And thanks so much for having me, excited to be here.
00:31.43
Lorie Jones
So the first question that I always ask is my very favorite, honestly, it's what is your favorite book?
00:38.97
Natalie Levy
Great, so this is the only question I looked at just briefly a minute ago. And I don't have one, so I'm gonna quickly mention a few or several.
00:48.62
Lorie Jones
Okay.
00:49.62
Natalie Levy
um i I'm a good reader.
00:50.52
Lorie Jones
Okay. Two or three. Like, Oh yeah.
00:52.44
Natalie Levy
i you think reader okay Okay, so i'll just do I'll just do a few, and I think for the nature of this conversation, one, the soul of money, which I feel like you'd appreciate if you don't know it.
00:53.93
Lorie Jones
like Okay. Okay.
01:03.07
Lorie Jones
I don't, and I love that idea.
01:03.16
Natalie Levy
um I'm also going to mention 10% happier, and I read that years ago, but my first kind of introduction into kind of mindfulness and meditation, and then This is a fun one.
01:16.22
Natalie Levy
And we're here we are, two women. I'm going to say, come as you are. So there you go.
01:20.48
Lorie Jones
Okay. All right.
01:22.34
Natalie Levy
That's basically a a sex book. But yeah, it's all about the women. So i those are a few. Of course, I could mention others. I'm going to stop right there.
01:30.75
Lorie Jones
All right. Well, I love it. I love that you love reading as much as I do. And, um, I, I haven't read any of those three, so they get added to my list, but my stack is about that big so So tell me a little bit about your journey and Natalie, how did you get started?
01:43.55
Natalie Levy
Got it.
01:49.83
Lorie Jones
How did you get where you're at now? Kind of what do you do now? This is sort of the, the who you are and what you do portion.
01:58.23
Natalie Levy
Yeah, my dog's excited. So she's going to start barking in the background. She loves this question. She's part of the journey, of course. um So I would say, you know from a young age, I was you know in advanced math classes. I went to engineering school, went to Wall Street. And a lot of my story was you know fighting to get in the rooms, whether it was myself fighting or my mom fighting to get me in. And it was, I want to do this and some pushback. Oh, you know women don't do this.
02:26.47
Natalie Levy
And even from my you know Wall Street days, which I know life and the world is supposed to change, but when I graduated ah full time in 2006, the HR team said, no, you know derivatives traders, we don't really have women in that department. So why don't you try sales? But I became a derivatives trader. And so the story again and again, whether it was harassment, me too, I continued to do the hard thing. And I spent years in finance and numerous financial roles.
02:55.78
Natalie Levy
Um, left kicking and screaming, but ultimately have now gotten back into it in a really rewarding way. Um, never thought I wanted to again. And you know, my finance days spend all different types of, you know, roles from institutional finance derivatives, trading on wall street to.
03:13.17
Natalie Levy
um private equity out in San Francisco and also angel investing for more than a decade myself. But um when I left those environments, I said, nope, I'm done. And the reason I'm doing it again and the reason I'm back is a number of women who heard about my investment track record had interest and you know wanted to partake. And for me to be able to step into impact that marries my skills and you know my successes and say, I can bring you with me and you can learn these things and you can become um whether it's a bit of an expert or you know step into a portfolio, it's something that's that's really rewarding.
03:49.38
Natalie Levy
And so today I run a women first angel investment group.
03:52.51
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
03:53.79
Natalie Levy
Women first, meaning we love investing in women and we recognize the gaps of funding flows and you know there are not enough women who are allocating capital.
03:54.05
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
04:01.77
Natalie Levy
And so we very much work with mentor support, um educate, you know getting more women and diverse folks into angel investing. And so that's the very quick and and dirty of where I am.
04:16.84
Lorie Jones
So you said, I left finance and said I was never coming back. Why did you leave finance? So much fun here.
04:24.50
Natalie Levy
Oh gosh, yeah, I can i can see and and feel and taste the irony. um You know, from my earliest days, I was mesmerized by the money and the influence um you know that were Wall Street circa 2006 in Manhattan.
04:36.85
Lorie Jones
you
04:41.68
Natalie Levy
But just so many awkward, uncomfortable and you know harassing moments throughout my career, um especially my young career, but just uncomfortable cultures and lack of mentorship and sponsorship. I mean, really kind of garbage. um And also, you know, sales and trading for anyone who doesn't know what it is, it's um exciting and and you know highly energetic, but it takes a lot. And if you do it for a period of time, you're not really building a career in anything else. It's kind of like you learn how to do that, but it's not necessarily fully transferable skills. And so,
05:20.77
Natalie Levy
I did that for five years and you know at some point you kind of wake up and say, well, this isn't making me happy. Maybe it's making me sick. I look around. I don't see others that are happy. I don't see women that are you know good role models.
05:32.46
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
05:32.83
Natalie Levy
And when you recognize you need to make a change, you absolutely do. And so that was probably the first time I really started listening to kind of you know Gut. um
05:42.55
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
05:43.07
Natalie Levy
Yeah, I mean the the me too moments like, you know nonstop so a lot of just inappropriate behavior in this and that and also just not feeling like You know a sense of belonging um In those in those cultures and in those rooms So again fun and you know, yeah, you can make a lot of money, but it just felt like a fight um and You know the same thing ended up happening
05:51.65
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
06:05.90
Natalie Levy
less with the me too moments you know and in private equity. But again, I didn't feel like I was getting the the growth or the support ah that I needed to be a professional um and you know get bigger in my role. And so, yeah, I kind of ran you know multiple times or got, i should I should say pushed out the second time, but um really glad that I didn't spend more time in the strictly financial you know fields.
06:32.89
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that's it's so interesting because you po ah yeah you know one of my passions is is bringing more women into finance. and um and And I know that there are a lot of times you know back in the day when you were the only woman in the room. And it seems like in that Wall Street kind of trading um sort of you know that era, you kind of still are the only woman in the room.
07:00.40
Natalie Levy
Yeah.
07:00.50
Lorie Jones
like we I always say we we have about 20% female advisors and we've had 20% for 20 years, but I don't think those are the numbers when you're getting into the derivatives trading.
07:11.77
Lorie Jones
I think you really are.
07:12.66
Natalie Levy
Yeah. And you know, you might have 50% women in the analyst class incoming, but you know, five years in, you're one of very few existing. And by the way, if we're not allowed to show up authentically as ourselves, or don't know how to, because we'd be pushed out, you look around and even if there are women,
07:30.92
Natalie Levy
It doesn't feel like there are women, you know, because you don't really have a voice.
07:34.70
Lorie Jones
um That's so interesting. i i That's one of the things that, you know, in my space that I work really hard to try and make a space for women. So they feel, I love the idea of, you know, they belong here or they feel like there's a place for them here.
07:50.90
Lorie Jones
And I i find it sad that you you you didn't have that experience um still in 2019, 2020, 2024.
07:57.47
Natalie Levy
Yeah. Well. Well, its what's nuts is now it's 2024. And I you know have recently connected with some women who were at the bank I was at. And they more recently had you know the similar or same experiences, even as managing directors.
08:13.10
Natalie Levy
And so I forget that I was an analyst associate.
08:13.59
Lorie Jones
and Yeah.
08:15.59
Natalie Levy
you know You're younger. And not that that should be a write-off, but women who become managing directors are still dealing with it today. you know It's like no matter what we do and we accomplish,
08:26.54
Natalie Levy
It's the same story. And you know I think an organization that's really, really large or has operated the same way or has um you know antiquated styles of, I don't know, communications and you know old embedded culture, you know that's not going to change unless somebody steps into those most senior roles and you know partners and say, this is absolutely you know going to change. And that just doesn't happen.
08:50.13
Lorie Jones
Yeah, well, and, and hopefully this idea of, um you know, getting more women on boards, more women in the C-suite, more women in these areas may start to see some of that change in the future, but yeah I do find it disheartening that even today, it's still
09:08.71
Natalie Levy
Yeah. And I think you know women on the board is a topic because that's how we connected. you know One woman on the board, that's just one woman. Two women, three women, you know when you start to change the numbers, and even before parity, but when you start to change the numbers, then things change. But you can't be the only woman, you can't be middle management and say, hey, this needs to change because you get managed out, HR isn't there to protect you and change culture. and so If you can't get buy-in you know from the most senior folks or if you don't have multiple voices saying this needs to change, by the way, allyship is huge.
09:41.23
Natalie Levy
So I'm not saying one woman on the board doesn't change things, but I've heard it again and again.
09:44.73
Lorie Jones
Right.
09:45.85
Natalie Levy
you know its It's tough if ah if the numbers aren't in your favor.
09:49.66
Lorie Jones
Yeah, we need more voices. I love that. So let's delve into just a little bit about um your journey, Natalie. As you've gone through um your professional experience, is there something that you can say, oh my gosh, I'm so glad that I made that investment? Like that particular thing that I did was so pivotal to where I'm showing up today.
10:14.41
Natalie Levy
Yeah, I think this started when I was younger and I think I got a lot of it from my mom, but just developing my voice and the I can mentality, I learned only in the last year that I was neurodiverse, women present differently and um there's many reasons for it, but I've always been okay with discomfort and I've been okay with kind of pushback and i've still found a way to say i can exist i can do this you know and that's something that i don't think a lot of women and a lot of folks have necessarily or i should say you know folks that that don't look like the leadership team and so having my voice you know at the end of the day has allowed me to say wait this is inappropriate
10:40.97
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
11:01.09
Natalie Levy
even though I went to HR and I didn't realize you know they're there to protect the bank, for example, you know being able to speak up and say, this is unreasonable, this is inappropriate, this is not fair. um Make a change and walk away from a company when you know something is off.
11:15.21
Natalie Levy
um Being able to say, well, sure, I don't have that MBA, but I am absolutely qualified for this role. you know Knowing my value, um because otherwise, if I just listen to people, then
11:22.53
Lorie Jones
her
11:27.35
Natalie Levy
I wouldn't be sitting here in such a position of strength and doing all these things and grown you know and and develop so much self-awareness. I would have been, not that there's anything wrong with being married, but I would have been probably married off and um you know crying in ah in in in a room full of tears because I never really figured out who I was and what I wanted.
11:45.60
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
11:46.32
Natalie Levy
But to have developed resilience and strength and to have found such a meaningful path that, by the way, honors. I didn't mention this before, but um we've lost several family members to suicide. I'm able to bring them with me. I'm able to honor them and myself. It's a really you know beautiful and powerful thing.
12:03.57
Lorie Jones
is there some Is there some way that you invested in finding that voice or was it just natural? Like, is there a ah checklist you can give the rest of us to find the voice?
12:10.38
Natalie Levy
Yeah. Yeah, it's a great point. you know I think being neurodiverse, so I'm neurodiverse can mean a number of things in terms of you know how you just present. I'm autistic and HSP, it means highly sensitive person, which is probably a a form of autism, but I've always been a bit in my head, whether you want to call it introspective, um feeling different, but I think sitting with myself, which is something you learn about in you know mindfulness practices and
12:42.95
Natalie Levy
befriending the voice in your head and saying, what do I need? And not just showing up because, oh my gosh, you're single and you need to go out because it's Friday or Saturday night, but I care about health and I want to cuddle my dog and read a book at 8 PM on a Saturday after acupuncture and a massage. I mean, do what do what serves you, right? And I think trying the things and recognizing what doesn't and recognizing what are projections or other people's expectations and values versus you know understanding your own is huge.
13:15.45
Natalie Levy
And so you can even call part of it you know a journey in understanding feminism, right? It took me probably until my 30s of digging into well what is really my voice and what do I want versus how I was raised and what I was told and you know people's judgment.
13:27.07
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
13:30.20
Natalie Levy
But the more you can unpack that, and by the way, when you go through really tough events, that can also further speed up that cycle.
13:36.67
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
13:36.61
Natalie Levy
um And I think there's meditation practices and different ways to kind of find that self-awareness. But yeah, for me, it's been, I've always had that unique thing and I'm going to call it a ah good characteristic, right?
13:47.90
Natalie Levy
That kind of autism piece, which for many years, I'm sure I kind of hated it, but it allowed me to have a voice and and be okay with discomfort. But I think, flexing that and you know like any muscle, recognizing, wait, I'm good at negotiating. I'm good at pushing back. I'm good at you know establishing these things and leaning into that. And then the self-awareness and the growth from life and lived experiences and being introspective on that, it all just further elevated that mix of the gut instinct of what are good decisions and what are my values? And then you know how do I want to show up? And when do I want to speak up?
14:23.80
Lorie Jones
you Okay.
14:24.21
Natalie Levy
and And actually, I know this is a little out of scope. I'm going to give one more example, which is, um and it'll give you a little bit of an idea of of my waking life, but I've been going to the bath house a lot for um sauna and cold plunge. And I had a conversation with ah two different psychologists there because you meet a bunch of really interesting people. And I was saying that, you know, sometimes after a first date,
14:44.89
Natalie Levy
I'm very honest and, you know, these men will blow up and be really nasty if you say you're not interested. And one of the psychologists said, you know, you don't know them honesty. I only give my close friends honesty. But then the other psychologist who was a lot more grounded, let's just say he dealt with his personal trauma and he was married.
15:02.39
Natalie Levy
with a family um and because he was in relationship psychology, he goes, actually, he said, um show up like you want to show up, you know, show up ah truthful if you are a truthful person. And it was so interesting because those conversations didn't happen in the same room, ah the same sauna, I should say, ah but I had time to reflect and I continue showing up with truth, with my truth. And even though it's hard and some people are total assholes,
15:28.86
Natalie Levy
I still am honest because that's why I'm at my core. And to recognize my value and to feel good about that, even if if it can get you in some you know hot water, I want to influence the world positively. And I choose how much energy I bring with that, but I don't want to lie and you know create an environment that makes it safer for somebody else, but not for other women. um I'd rather speak with the truth.
15:52.98
Lorie Jones
That's so interesting. I like that idea of like, you you show up the way that feels more authentic to you or that feels right to you. I think that, um you know, I've been given advice to, you know, figure out what your strengths are and then kind of lean into those strengths because I i am really analytical and I'm i'm less empathetic, more analytical. and And so I do have to kind of lean into that strength and and let my strengths kind of overcome some of my weaknesses. And and I like that idea of like showing up authentically you
16:32.46
Lorie Jones
and and being and telling your truth, not hiding.
16:36.08
Natalie Levy
Yeah, it's interesting because I think definitely lean into strengths and find roles, positions, relationships, all that that you know showcase strengths. But I would add that by building on some of the areas of weakness, we can find so much more balance and
16:54.75
Natalie Levy
Fulfillment ultimately and so it's like I wouldn't lean out from weaknesses But I'd make sure that like with our waking, you know day job and where we're spending a lot of time It is things that we enjoy that we're all so good at um But I do think that you know to your point of being analytical and maybe less on the you know um ah EQ side like that's how I used to be and then I've gone through a bunch and so I've Furthered that muscle on EQ and I saw how others showed up.
16:56.16
Lorie Jones
here
17:16.13
Lorie Jones
Mmhmm.
17:20.90
Natalie Levy
So I've developed that And I'm really glad that I leaned in to learn more there.
17:25.23
Lorie Jones
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
17:28.88
Lorie Jones
that's That's interesting because there's a great debate going around about whether or not you minimize the weaknesses or whether you try and strengthen them because they're never going to be your strengths. And it sounds like you come on the side of strengthening them because it makes you more well rounded.
17:46.22
Lorie Jones
Is that right?
17:46.48
Natalie Levy
I think it's, yeah, strengthen them enough. And I'm not saying it flips. I'm not saying our personal personality is completely 180. um But it's really been rewarding for me. And also, like I'll give you the example of I'm a type A woman who If I was just alpha all the time, like that wouldn't make me happy. It makes me sick. Um, and by finding a place where I can also soften, it's allowed me to show up in ways that are much more enjoyable and attract a different type of individual. And so I really enjoyed that work of recognizing the strengths and showing up in certain ways. You know, if I need to be a New York asshole, I will, but, um, coming from a place of, you know,
18:29.02
Natalie Levy
content and fulfillment and not just being type A and overall it feels really great. And I operate with a much healthier, better energy and less volatility.
18:41.31
Lorie Jones
Hmm. That's really, that's interesting. I like that idea. i i I like the idea of, I've never really liked the idea of completely ignoring your weaknesses.
18:52.54
Natalie Levy
Yeah.
18:53.23
Lorie Jones
and so So that's, that's been difficult for me to get behind, but I do like the idea of, of maybe that makes you more a holistic person or or a more balanced.
18:57.99
Natalie Levy
right
19:05.32
Natalie Levy
Yeah, and and determine how you want to show up. and One other thing just quickly on the topic. It took me until about the age of 30 to hear direct feedback that this is what you're great at, this is what you should be doing.
19:18.83
Natalie Levy
So again, like I don't want to shy away from what are you great at? Not just what do you think, but what do other people say you're great at?
19:24.97
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
19:25.62
Natalie Levy
So again, that's powerful to know.
19:28.52
Lorie Jones
yeah
19:28.72
Natalie Levy
And that's different than what skills do you want to work on for your personal life and how you show up outside of work, right? And again, I think this also is, you know, if we're the authentic person, like you shouldn't show up totally differently maybe in the office and you can still, you know, talk about those different skills. I love that my interpersonal skills and my empathy and, you know, all of that allows me to show up stronger, I think at work, even though I'm still a type A nature by, you know, by background. um But yeah, it's, it's something I've really enjoyed developing.
20:00.66
Lorie Jones
What is the worst advice that someone gave you? And did you take it? Did you not take it?
20:07.98
Natalie Levy
yeah I mean, it goes back to the days of she's a woman or she's a girl. And I don't know if it's advice versus judgment. But I'll give you a few examples. When I went to women in engineering camp and one of the camp counselors said, you know, to me, oh, are you, you know, going to engineering school for your MRS, AKA, like to get married, your misses, um because I made jokes. And yes, like being boy crazy when you're a teenager, like, okay, so sue me. um
20:39.85
Natalie Levy
Really she was, I'm sure, just jealous. us But ah you know on the Wall Street front, it was, oh, you should be my side piece. You should be my girlfriend. When are you going to get married? And again, it's that projection and that judgment that if I'd listened to them,
20:54.88
Natalie Levy
and that had shaped my path versus me making the decision, um that would have been really upsetting. And again, like my actual path, which was probably fighting all of that and saying, I'm going to do it no matter what, also probably wasn't the best, most healthy you know place to be.
21:12.60
Natalie Levy
But I think just waking up one day and saying, OK, I'm going to do what I need to do for me, I'm really thankful I got there and I didn't wait until, you know
21:15.79
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
21:23.53
Natalie Levy
near retirement or some really bad life event.
21:27.26
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. That's interesting. i The MRS degree is still a thing, huh?
21:33.52
Natalie Levy
i mean it Apparently so, um and that woman should not be a camp counselor for ah young, engineering-minded women.
21:41.17
Lorie Jones
Yeah. What about regrets? Is there something you can look back on in your journey and say, Ooh, if I knew then the same things I know now, like i I think that if you go through knowing the exact same things that you would have known, then you probably do it the same. But what if you had today's experience and knowledge behind you? Is there an experience or a situation that you would go back and do differently? And how and why?
22:07.96
Natalie Levy
I think if I could give myself advice to my younger self, it would really be about digging into the, what do I want? What are my values? What do I really want to do apart from the societal pressures and standards and projections and you know what parents tell you?
22:25.39
Natalie Levy
I wanted to be an artist when I was younger and my parents who were scientists, you know, didn't think that was practical and it was you should do something that, you know, makes a financial living and, you know, hey, I went to Wall Street and if I did it again, and if I did it my own way, maybe I.
22:43.05
Natalie Levy
would have started being an artist and done something else. Or maybe I would have decided I don't want to be an artist. But what I don't like is that they made the decision for me.
22:49.20
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
22:50.73
Natalie Levy
And I think if you can be aligned with your you know values and goals or whatever that looks like, and they can change. But the sooner you can find your voice, I think you can live better and more fully and, you know, make better decisions for yourself.
23:06.62
Natalie Levy
And so for me, that's, I guess, kind of a regret that it took so long. I'll also use that on the dating front, which is, you know, I probably dated too often these um kind of beta or softer types that didn't really challenge me.
23:20.56
Natalie Levy
And, you know, at the end of the day,
23:22.93
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
23:24.06
Natalie Levy
I wouldn't do that again. The question is, right are you learning from all these situations and relationships? And to stop um repeating a pattern, right you have to change something within yourself that I believe now I've done. And I really think now that I reflect on all that I've been through in these suicide losses and life,
23:42.45
Natalie Levy
I think that being single mostly in my life and you know not having been married, it's allowed me to grow in really beautiful ways. And so I'm not mad about it.
23:53.85
Natalie Levy
um But yeah, I think I'd probably have a different path and journey. But hey, who knows? Maybe I would end up exactly in the same place, um which is not a bad thing.
24:01.87
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
24:04.51
Lorie Jones
ah
24:06.78
Lorie Jones
Well, what if you could go back and talk to specifically talk to yourself at 20 years old, just at the start of your journey, maybe not 20, but like just when you're starting out on this journey, is there, is there something you'd want to tell her?
24:21.75
Natalie Levy
Yeah, I think I'd want to tell her that you you know the world throws things at you and you go through tough things and it's growth and that finding your voice and finding your path, you want to find what's right for you and you don't just listen to people. You do want you know mentorship and sponsorship where it's aligned, um but you want to try and create and fail and grow and not be scared of you know the pivot and and doing new things. I think that you know the most fantastic inventions or startups or launches or growth you know come from that, taking the skills and applying them elsewhere and trying things and failing right and trying and failing.
25:11.77
Natalie Levy
and so I think you know don't be super risk averse and don't think that you know that 401k plan when you're you know in your 20s is the biggest thing. Sure, we know how you know money compounds and it's great to have that 401k match, but you know you don't need the corporate job if you want to try something else. um I'd probably you know try some startups and you know some other things because at the end of the day, if you are going to work hard and if you want to learn and grow,
25:39.11
Natalie Levy
um The growth isn't going to happen because you're doing the same thing day in, day out. And if you don't listen to or establish you know what's that voice and what are your values, how are you going to find your North Star?
25:53.86
Lorie Jones
Yeah, how will you know? So is there, um is there a way because I know that when you're young, sometimes it's super hard to know what is anxiety, what is your voice inside of you, telling you what's right for you, what is, um what is, how, you know, should I listen to other people?
26:14.52
Lorie Jones
Like when do I listen to somebody else telling, giving me advice and, and that's going to be the best idea that I ever had.
26:16.68
Natalie Levy
Yeah.
26:20.76
Lorie Jones
And when do I not listen to them? Like, is there a ah test for figuring out what's
26:25.06
Natalie Levy
Yeah. All right. So I am by no means an expert in this, but I'll give you an example, which is a concept called the muscle test.
26:34.78
Lorie Jones
Okay.
26:35.88
Natalie Levy
And again, like I'm not an energy healer or energy worker, but it's ah it's an interesting thing where basically you can learn how to sit with something or meditate on something and then say, how do I respond? How does my body respond?
26:47.29
Lorie Jones
Okay.
26:47.47
Natalie Levy
So maybe it's a physical way to think about like gut instinct.
26:50.46
Lorie Jones
so okay
26:51.48
Natalie Levy
um But I think just the more time you spend with yourself, and I'm not talking about a meditation app per se, even though that might be the start of the journey. I'm not talking about a yoga class where you're just moving and trying to busy your mind, but sitting with yourself and maybe breathing or watching your thoughts kind of you know from outside of your body in a way and letting thoughts pass and recognizing what judgment is and recognizing what feels good and you know meditating with things.
27:20.43
Natalie Levy
And you can you know there's so much you can read out there and practice in terms of mindfulness, but you know quieting your mind. and And again, the more time you can spend with yourself, even if it's two minutes a day or 10 minutes a day, to be able to say this feels good, like this actually feels good.
27:37.79
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
27:37.72
Natalie Levy
um And people have different forms of it, journaling, whatever you wanna do. ah
27:40.94
Lorie Jones
ah
27:41.95
Natalie Levy
But yeah, I think that if you can figure out you know what actually feels good versus what did my therapist tell me or what did my mom or my sister tell me, um that's a beautiful thing because everybody has their own lived experience, everyone has their own body, and there's so much that you can unlock um by really listening to yourself. And even tarot cards is an example, right? It's like ask questions and that just the interpretation of it can start a conversation with yourself or with your friends.
28:10.19
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
28:10.21
Natalie Levy
Um, but just, you know, lean into it and it could feel awkward and uncomfortable at first, but I guarantee you, you know, if you show up for it and you're looking for something, I'm not saying like you will immediately find meaning, but you're going to find something to learn from.
28:25.24
Lorie Jones
That's, yeah, that's really an interesting idea. I never thought about, you know, you have those games like get to know you games or the, you know, get to know yourself or self discovery pact. Like what if you did that with yourself?
28:36.69
Lorie Jones
Like what if you asked yourself those questions?
28:36.85
Natalie Levy
Yeah.
28:39.11
Lorie Jones
That's, that's a really interesting idea.
28:39.47
Natalie Levy
Yeah.
28:41.19
Lorie Jones
I like that.
28:41.24
Natalie Levy
And then the other thing I want to say is, so for our investment group as an example, you know, I have women all the time ask, how do I change my mindset?
28:48.77
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
28:49.26
Natalie Levy
And I'm going to, I'm going to use kind of ah a metaphor on this one, but the the thing I say to them is you're never going to be a hundred percent confident and ready to allocate or write your first handle check. But when you do the thing, it changes your mind.
29:01.19
Natalie Levy
And so similarly, right? Like you may not feel like a meditator or somebody who's into mindfulness, but if you want to. Find that power or work on that muscle do the thing and then your mindset will change, you know, and so Don't just go with the oh, you know what? I was raised this way or that way, you know If you never ask the questions and you never try to show up, you know What are you leaving on the table really? And so again the more lived experience we have the tough things we go through right like that can all help develop the You know, what is really the thing and by the way like an exercise you could do with a friend um I've never suggested this but I will
29:37.26
Natalie Levy
i I don't know if you've ever like been interviewed by you know ah somebody who's just phenomenal at interviewing, right? They're usually like a genius or they're just really good with people, but they'll keep peeling peeling back the layers of that onion with you.
29:50.28
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
29:50.27
Natalie Levy
And it's why do you want to do this? Why do you care about the money? But why you know what's the power behind that in the more you dig into the wise right not just that first question the more you can learn about. Really what's driving that person and so if it's too hard to do it yourself do it with somebody else but peel back the layers right don't just on the surface say well yeah i want to make a much money it's like okay well why. And then why.
30:14.54
Natalie Levy
And then why you know and it's when you get to that core thing, you know you learn so much more about the you know what's driving you or what you need or your goal. um And hopefully you know you can learn something through that.
30:26.60
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that. I love that idea. What scared you the most when you started on your journey, Natalie? And does it still scare you or not?
30:38.31
Natalie Levy
Gosh, I don't know what scared me the most because I did a lot of scary things. you know like Even in school, I'd show up and be the only woman doing this or you know I'd be in a grad class and I'd be the only undergrad and I'd blah, blah, blah.
30:52.00
Natalie Levy
you know I think um I'm going to move it to something else, which maybe is an uncomfortable topic, but I'm going to say the thing that scared me the most in life was losing my mom to suicide.
31:03.83
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
31:05.19
Natalie Levy
and just that experience of it was a slow motion horror film, you know, um and just recognizing what happened and saying, wow, we can't rewind and this happened. um How do you process it? And now I'm, you know, I feel like an orphan or whatever, you want you know, like I've lost my mom, which is such a pivotal relationship to so many of us as women.
31:28.40
Natalie Levy
um And I'm like, you know am I ever going to recover and you know what's going to happen now?
31:34.39
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
31:34.54
Natalie Levy
And I think it was like before that event and after that event. And I would never wish anything like that on anyone, but I'm really thankful that I processed it and dealt with it the way that I did. And I'd already invested in things like mindfulness and meditative practices and health tools, all these things, because to have found some type of footing, not steady footing, but some type of support, had and and and a network of amazing women and community, you know you know family that I was born with, family that became family over time. um
32:11.30
Natalie Levy
to be able to show up for myself, you know all these things, it didn't happen immediately. It was things that I invested in over the years. I'm so glad that I showed up the way that I did in life so that I was able to navigate that.
32:21.63
Natalie Levy
And this sounds crazy to say, I've improved my relationship with my mother since her death, since the loss.
32:28.58
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
32:28.72
Natalie Levy
That's the work that I continue to do. And you know the way that I operate this investment group, she's independent, I bring her, I bring my cousin Z that we lost, I bring you know my mom's cousin Carol Dorfman that we lost.
32:33.69
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
32:41.61
Natalie Levy
and It's amazing because it's not just about giving. It's also honoring, you know, I think myself and other women, but it's just a beautiful thing that feels so powerful. It's bigger than me. um So I'm really thankful to show up the way I do and also to have shown up the way that I did going into that so that I could handle it.
33:02.09
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that that's I'm really sorry. I know that that's a really traumatic experience, you know, to lose um a mother, especially, but to lose a loved one in your life is really difficult. And I can see that the some of the work that you did beforehand, because you when you get to those kinds of experiences, those pivotal experiences, sometimes it's simplistic to say, but there's like binary paths.
33:29.56
Lorie Jones
you can can let it make you or you can let it break you, right?
33:29.92
Natalie Levy
Yeah.
33:34.30
Lorie Jones
And the the what you had put into where you were when you reached that pivotal point allowed you to go down the make you path to help it enrich your life, even though terrible.
33:49.33
Natalie Levy
yeah Yeah.
33:51.59
Lorie Jones
That's
33:51.65
Natalie Levy
And I think the skills that we can learn and and you know the new sense of spirituality that I started to show up with, I mean, when we lost my cousin a year after my mom, and he was 17 at the time, looked up to me so much in this world, I was already feeling spiritual connection to him within a week of his passing. It just sounds insane to say that. But it took about six months to find you know some semblance of peace, not that I was over it by any means, but you know after my mom, but within a week.
34:21.69
Natalie Levy
To start feeling there was a different relationship, but you start building on these skills. um By the way, if anyone's dealing with, you know, a traumatic event and processing, there are phenomenal modalities out there for media processing things like tapping. um You know, there's somatic awareness, there's breath work, there's all these beautiful things, but.
34:38.99
Natalie Levy
to build on these skills, um I really, I do feel like I have such a resilient mindset. And let me explain one other thing, which is more recently in the last six months, I had a really, really difficult physical issue.
34:51.45
Natalie Levy
I had a bad ski accident that ended up being two surgeries and 10 and a half days in the hospital.
34:57.82
Lorie Jones
Oh my gosh.
34:58.14
Natalie Levy
And the orthopedics team wouldn't believe me when I told them how much pain I was in. And they said it was a mental health issue and it was my fault. that I was in the pain. And yeah, let's all roll our eyes there for a second. And after my sister advocated for four days with the hospitalist, meaning the hospital, and they got an X-ray, the X-ray showed there was a complication in the ortho team after every day telling me I needed to leave the hospital.
35:27.03
Natalie Levy
then said, oh, we're sorry. There was a complication with the surgery. You need another operation. By the way, going into Memorial Day weekend, so wait another three and a half days. um I've always had a voice. And even when I was on all the drugs and I said, you can't talk to me like that. And you have to, you know, you have to.
35:44.40
Natalie Levy
respect the fact that I am telling you you know what I'm living. And I actually um fired the physician's assistant who said these very inappropriate things, by the way, showed up very differently with my when my boyfriend at the time stepped in the room because, hey, there's there's a witness. I mean, they just try to retell the story the way they want. And as women and you know folks that don't get represented by you know the leadership team or whatever you want to call it, our voices matter. And just because There's inherent bias and you know gaps and I'm not necessarily paying their bills, but maybe I am um Don't let that impact you showing up and don't let that stop you from you know showing up for yourself and also for those that don't have voices and
36:28.85
Lorie Jones
Hmm. Yeah. I think that's an important piece too. Like sometimes what we do in the experiences that we go through and the advocate, you know, ah advocate, we're advocating for those who are, are, are quieter.
36:41.55
Lorie Jones
Maybe they haven't found their voice yet, or maybe they're, um, you know, they're just naturally don't have that voice.
36:42.53
Natalie Levy
Absolutely.
36:47.26
Natalie Levy
Yeah. And it is the election today. So I'm just going to quickly say, I read some Instagram posts from a woman who posted about not voting and basically said, you know, everybody has a right and I'm not going to vote and blah, blah, blah. And In the comments, you know a lot of people called her out because that is a position of privilege that you can vote and you're choosing not to and think how many people can't have their voices heard. and i just I think it's such an important one to recognize. No one's perfect and no candidate is perfect, but if you actually self-educate yourself and you know you don't just listen to the damn political parties, but you say, well
37:30.58
Natalie Levy
what do I need being a woman or being a black woman or being, you know, somebody in this minority group, not just listening to the marketing, right? But you really dig into some of this stuff. How do you not vote? Um, and I know our democracy is broken and the political party is, you know, everything's a mess, but I just, it kind of stuck with me because it's like, just because you're in a position of privilege where maybe your life isn't in danger. Like what about the others?
38:04.04
Lorie Jones
So sorry, I've got a little bit of a cough. Give me just a minute.
38:07.42
Natalie Levy
No worries. You drink your egg milk.
38:11.60
Natalie Levy
We're going to switch you over um to Tea with Honey. And I know you're going to run out and vote right after this conversation.
38:17.60
Lorie Jones
I actually, yeah, exactly. I actually did vote this morning and I had my little sticker right here.
38:23.31
Natalie Levy
Oh, yeah. i My sticker, I literally looked at it right there on my jacket um in front of me as I was talking.
38:27.44
Lorie Jones
Yeah. big advocate. I agree 100%. We have the opportunity and the privilege of voting and we should definitely do it. um
38:36.82
Natalie Levy
Yeah.
38:38.56
Lorie Jones
Natalie, tell me, did you face any unique challenges because you were a woman?
38:45.85
Natalie Levy
So many challenges as a woman um from my you know early career days, my even young childhood days of you know being in advanced math. um The stories I could tell you, I mean, they're they're endless. I'll give you just some examples. Second grade Miss Skelly, I'm calling her out. ah She made the girls play with her hair during story time. I said no, by the way, she'd be arrested today. And he told my mom I needed to be in remedial class.
39:15.82
Natalie Levy
i thought i i I learned differently and so we did ultimately get me a tutor. By the way, when my you know teachers complained to my mom that I was being disruptive or you know didn't belong in a certain class, it's because I needed to be in you know three, four advanced classes beyond right in terms of mathematics. and so It was this weird thing of like I didn't just want to sit there quietly and that maybe wasn't normal being a woman or a young girl.
39:42.60
Natalie Levy
And so it was kind of fighting to get into the thing that I needed, being a girl, being a woman that you know typically was all men, but also not keeping my mouth quiet or shut, um was also something that you know we we had to advocate or or navigate, I should say. um So I think the story repeats itself. There was a lot of, you know she is tough, she's combative, but it's, you're not hearing me, right? Ortho team, I'm in pain.
40:09.25
Natalie Levy
You're not hearing me. And I think maybe another thing that we didn't touch on before around lessons, but using your voice, but not necessarily having to scream it, which hopefully you learn at some point and there's more strategic and you know smarter ways to kind of get to that, which you could make somebody believe that, um, or manipulate them into something, which I don't want to do.
40:30.44
Natalie Levy
But the point is if you don't hear me, maybe there's a different way I need to speak up.
40:33.25
Lorie Jones
Yeah,
40:34.67
Natalie Levy
Right.
40:36.52
Lorie Jones
yeah maybe a different. Yeah, and and and there are a lot of ways out there that you can kind of lean into strengths or one way of communicating here and another way of communicating here.
40:50.11
Lorie Jones
um I just think that you need to make sure and be authentic and and real.
40:55.38
Natalie Levy
Yeah. let me Let me also suggest one other, well, I know I'm not supposed to say another book. I'm going to say it. Word slut, one word. Think feminism meets linguistics. And what I think is so great, I love Amanda Montel who who writes it. The idea that we don't have to show up as men and there are really powerful things in terms of even word choice as women. Let me give you an example. We say like more.
41:21.54
Natalie Levy
we're better with the interpersonal making somebody else feel comfortable or you know bridging the conversation. And so some of these you know influencers or you know people out there saying, well, this is how to show up like men. I don't want to show up like a man. I want to know what works for the men. And I want to know when I should tiptoe around that. But showing up like a woman and being strong in that positioning and maybe sometimes softening because that works for women, that's really powerful.
41:48.25
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I like that idea. Natalie, what are you most proud of?
41:57.95
Natalie Levy
I think I'm the most proud of the growth and how I show up today. And I'm going to marry that to what I do with She's Independent Investments. It's brilliant. It feels so aligned. It's influential. It's you know bringing others along the journey. And it's honoring family members that you know can't be here in this living world with us today. But I know how proud they are.
42:24.66
Lorie Jones
Yeah, you can feel that.
42:26.97
Natalie Levy
that
42:27.72
Lorie Jones
Thank you so much, Natalie, for your time. If there is a young lady and um she is just starting down on this path that you're successful at, and you've navigated so beautifully so far, you what advice would you give her?
42:38.02
Natalie Levy
right
42:41.51
Natalie Levy
yes
42:44.91
Natalie Levy
Yeah. My dog wants to give her a lot of advice if you hear her barking.
42:48.52
Lorie Jones
I know. I can tell. Wow. Your dog is ready with the answer to this question.
42:54.00
Natalie Levy
He is ready. But her advice isn't always great. It's basically usually talking about food or squirrels. um i hey I think it's
43:00.83
Lorie Jones
That was probably the squirrel right there.
43:06.83
Natalie Levy
It's recognizing you know what is feminism? What are your values? How do you show up in this world? What do you want to do? Why do you want to do it? I do think money is influential and impactful. And so when I spoke to a room full of 300 young sorority women the other day at CU or the other month, and none of them raised their hand when I said, who's thinking about finance? And I explained what angel investing was and investing and the power. And then I asked again, you know who's interested now? And a bunch of hands went up. I think it's put yourself out there and learn things that are maybe outside your comfort zone. But start learning you know from a young age and try things. um And recognizing, you know even if somebody doesn't want to learn the things around money, and this is advice for everyone,
43:57.03
Natalie Levy
Know the fundamentals, know the basics, right? So you're not taking advantage of, um you and I chatted about that a little bit before this kicked off. But yeah, I think the biggest one is know yourself and then act accordingly.
44:07.20
Lorie Jones
I love that. Great advice. Thank you so much, Natalie, for spending the time with us and sharing your journey and sharing a lot of these ideas that you've come up with. I really appreciate it.
44:19.47
Natalie Levy
Absolutely. I know you and I will continue talking about all the things, but um thanks for the work you do as well. I think what I do, what you do, different areas of wealth and money, and it's all really important stuff.
44:34.30
Lorie Jones
Yeah, it is super important and or pins your life. What um if I have a young lady who's listening to this and she wants to get in touch with you and ask a question or um needs some advice. Is there some way that she can get in touch with you?
44:49.03
Natalie Levy
Absolutely. And she doesn't need to be a young woman. She can also be a young man. We have people of all different ages um that invest with us or learn with us.
44:54.61
Lorie Jones
ah you go
44:59.40
Natalie Levy
My website is, or I should say our website is She's Independent. dot com On Instagram, it's at She's Independent underscore, and I'm reachable both those places. And we do you know regular events that include um education. We have mentorship kind of baked into you know how we operate. And so, hey, we have we have capacity. Hope to ah meet some some more folks there.
45:26.04
Lorie Jones
Thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
45:28.56
Natalie Levy
Thank you, Lori.