In today’s episode, host Lorie Jones sits down with Irene Barnett, a powerhouse senior business consultant whose journey from the film industry to tech entrepreneurship will leave you both enlightened and motivated.
Discover how Irene conquered financial uncertainties, tackled gender biases, and balanced career and family life. Hear her inspiring thoughts on self-compassion, positive affirmations, and the value of authenticity, and uncover her career philosophy of learning without regrets.
Whether you’re just starting your career or looking to make a courageous leap, packed with wisdom, this conversation promises to ignite your inner courage and drive. Tune in to hear how embracing risks and learning from every experience can pave the way for remarkable success!
Show Highlights:
- Discover the power of spontaneity and flexibility for rewarding new strides. [00:07:32]
- Why planning and support are essential when taking career risks. [00:14:18]
- Is creativity a destination or an unlimited everyday skill? [00:19:16]
- How to consider the “alternate you” with lessons without regrets. [00:25:12]
- Explore the all-encompassing value of authenticity. [00:29:48]
- Learn how to unleash your fearlessness and live in its reality. [00:35:16]
- How working mothers’ experience has positively shifted over time. [00:39:00]
- Unlock compassionate advice for young women to launch and thrive in male-dominated fields. [00:49:21]
To connect with Irene Barnett, visit https://www.linkedin.com/in/irenebarnett/.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review! For more information about Lorie Jones, go to http://fearless-females.com/.
00:01.30
Lorie Jones
Good morning. So we're here today with ari Irene Barnet. She is a senior business consultant, and I'm so excited to listen to what you do, Irene, and have this conversation with you. I'm thrilled about your journey. you You say all the right words as geeks and nerds who are so interested in and maybe the people side and building the business and making things a little more efficient. I love that.
00:26.01
Irene Barnett
Great, thanks, I'm so happy to be here.
00:28.75
Lorie Jones
So my first question is always the same. I'm a reader. I love reading. I can't think of a book I haven't liked. What is your favorite book?
00:37.40
Irene Barnett
I have way too many to go into at this time because with you I love to read, but I always, um I always go back to this one book that I have read I'm not sure how many times over the decades honestly since I first read it and that's bird by bird by Anne Lamott.
00:52.47
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh.
00:57.41
Irene Barnett
um I cut my background is in writing, actually, um and film production, um strangely. So big morphing happens there. But um and she's a phenomenal writer, a wonderful writer, but the The book is about creativity and her journey with creativity. And one of the things and the title kind of speaks to and it is this idea that in creative in creative endeavors or anywhere really in our life when we feel overwhelmed, we just need to take things one thing at a time and look at the smaller picture sometimes in order to um achieve the bigger goal. So bird by bird refers to her brother
01:44.43
Irene Barnett
when they were little, had to do a paper for school about something like all the the birds of of Northern America, you know, do a do a report on the birds of Northern America.
01:52.40
Lorie Jones
Uh huh.
01:54.54
Irene Barnett
And he was completely overwhelmed by the idea of, well, there's just a gazillion birds that I could write about and everything.
02:00.17
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
02:02.11
Irene Barnett
And she heard her father, who was also a writer, by the way, tell him just take it bird by bird. And so that you can you can just sort of bring it down to these smaller bite-sized chunks.
02:14.28
Irene Barnett
And I've used that thinking in writing a ton, because that can be very overwhelming. But also just throughout life, when things feel like it's too big of a thing, just bring it down to these like manageable pieces.
02:30.55
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
02:30.80
Irene Barnett
so and And it's also a very funny, incredibly vulnerable and heartfelt book and she's just a beautiful writer. And it's really, really one of my favorites.
02:38.80
Lorie Jones
Oh.
02:40.89
Irene Barnett
My other favorite that I have read over again, it makes me laugh because I was going through and listening to some of your previous podcasts, another one of your guests set on writing by Stephen King.
02:51.63
Lorie Jones
huh?
02:52.16
Irene Barnett
another remarkable book just about a creative somebody's creative process, you know, and how, how he kind of overcame a lot of stuff to become the writer that he is another one that I have read a couple times over the years.
02:57.74
Lorie Jones
Oh.
03:06.98
Irene Barnett
Those two are my favorites.
03:07.25
Lorie Jones
I love that. I like the second recommendation for a book that I already, you know, that it was already on my list. i I go through and like order all of them at once and they come and they get in the stack and then I kind of go through them and then I'm ready for another batch.
03:14.28
Irene Barnett
Oh, yes, for sure.
03:23.88
Irene Barnett
There's nothing better.
03:23.98
Lorie Jones
i So kind of feel a little selfish because this book list is, it should be titled Lori's books that she wants to read. and And I only want to read the good ones.
03:31.57
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
03:32.91
Lorie Jones
So I ask everyone what their favorite is.
03:35.34
Irene Barnett
That's the way to do it. It's like Christmas every time you get a batch of books too. Always feels like it's Christmas morning.
03:39.03
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. So great. Well, that sounds really interesting and it kind of sounds like ah a little bit of a like be present in the moment kind of thing, like focus on one thing, focus on the thing that's happening now or or the little pieces.
03:46.30
Irene Barnett
and so
03:51.05
Lorie Jones
And then eventually you'll be able to make the whole, but but if you, I do know that in life, if you start looking at like all the many, many things that you have to do and the many roles that you have to to fulfill, it gets overwhelming and you just don't even want to try anything.
04:06.49
Irene Barnett
Absolutely. And to your point, that keeps you from being present in the journey because you just keep looking at the end of the journey. You're not looking at how to get there and what's happening along the way.
04:18.33
Irene Barnett
And and that you can miss so much and so many opportunities that you you know you think you have an end point that's down the road there, but that can be very limiting.
04:21.54
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
04:28.06
Irene Barnett
And if that's all you're looking at, you're not seeing all these other possible side tracks that you'd be going on that could take you in a different direction.
04:28.03
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
04:35.38
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that's so interesting. And it sounds like your journey has been a little bit of a winding path as well.
04:40.29
Irene Barnett
ah Oh my gosh, so much.
04:42.58
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about yourself, Irene.
04:42.65
Irene Barnett
I mean, seriously.
04:45.03
Lorie Jones
Tell me how you got started on your journey. What do you do now? like Just talk a little bit about that.
04:50.14
Irene Barnett
Sure. I got to say out of the gate, I have never had a grand plan. That is not how I operate in life. It's not how I travel. It's not how I just am. you know I kind of look at my life the way I do like to do international travels.
05:01.00
Lorie Jones
Hello.
05:04.73
Irene Barnett
I kind of know where I'm going to land and where I'll stay the first night. And I know where I'm leaving from and where I'm staying the night before I leave. I have a very, very loose plan between those two dates.
05:12.12
Lorie Jones
Oh wow.
05:15.63
Lorie Jones
Like you don't, you don't, I have motel rooms booked, you're giving me anxiety.
05:18.71
Irene Barnett
No, I know. See, it doesn't work for everybody. I'm not necessarily saying this is the end all. But what I have found in all my years of traveling kind of applies to how I have actually lived my life.
05:31.55
Irene Barnett
It's sort of funny in that I do have a general idea of direction, a general idea of what I think I want.
05:32.89
Lorie Jones
but
05:39.09
Irene Barnett
But i I personally have always felt like the missed train or, um you know, the deciding to stay in some small village longer has always had the biggest rewards for me.
05:50.58
Irene Barnett
And I kind of honestly my career has kind of followed a similar tract that I'm just always very open to
05:55.79
Lorie Jones
-huh uh-huh
05:58.96
Irene Barnett
um other opportunities that I may not be thinking about because I'm not paying attention. And so, you know, I mean, very quickly, because I've kind of been doing this for a really long time. But I started out wanting to be in film production, um love film, love the writing of film, love it. It's my favorite, probably art form, I think.
06:22.99
Irene Barnett
So that's what I studied and that's what I did for probably the first 10 years out of college um in a variety of ways, like, I mean, a little bit of film a little bit of television music videos I mean just everything you think of you kind of really pay dues for quite a while in the film industry just pulling cable and doing all sorts of things.
06:27.37
Lorie Jones
ah
06:42.02
Irene Barnett
um And so I did that for about 10 years when i I kind of had a realization that it just wasn't a kind of spiritual fit for me.
06:49.68
Lorie Jones
Uh huh.
06:50.62
Irene Barnett
I loved the art form, but I wasn't nuts about the business and the lifestyle um and the culture of the creation of that particular art form.
06:58.40
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
07:01.84
Irene Barnett
So um honestly, I just needed to you know kind of find a different job, honestly.
07:09.47
Lorie Jones
Okay.
07:09.54
Irene Barnett
I mean, it was really just, you know, at the very beginning, um I was much younger too. So I didn't have a lot of responsibilities and everything. So you could kind of experiment a little bit. And I um had had done a couple of like extra little jobs here and there between shoots, for instance, where I would do sort of desktop publishing sort of work, just really simplistic stuff.
07:29.34
Lorie Jones
Okay.
07:30.76
Irene Barnett
Well, I ended up moving to Seattle, Washington. um And I got on at Microsoft.
07:39.02
Lorie Jones
Oh,
07:39.22
Irene Barnett
as a desktop publisher, and it launched a whole career in tech that I never would have thought that I would either enjoy or be good at.
07:43.45
Lorie Jones
wow.
07:47.66
Irene Barnett
And it turned out that i but both of those things were true, that I sort of had a natural affinity for tech.
07:50.99
Lorie Jones
yeah
07:54.26
Irene Barnett
and could learn and pick up everything that I needed to very quickly, had no idea that I had that skill set at all, um and that I enjoyed it.
08:00.60
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
08:03.14
Irene Barnett
So that kind of launched where I am today, really.
08:06.52
Lorie Jones
Ah.
08:07.00
Irene Barnett
um from like From working at Microsoft as an employee early on, um after that, I actually left and started my own consulting business um with Microsoft being my main client.
08:21.24
Lorie Jones
Ah.
08:21.82
Irene Barnett
And it just grew and expanded from there um to where I am today, which is I am a business consultant that focuses on the people side of business, like I had mentioned. It's organizational effectiveness and change management, learning and development, and all the stuff that makes the human the humans in an organization ready for whatever the business is throwing at them, either a big change or transformation that might be happening, um leadership leadership change.
08:51.58
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
08:54.20
Irene Barnett
There's a lot of leadership coaching in what I do as well.
08:56.85
Lorie Jones
ah I love that.
08:56.91
Irene Barnett
um And it just honestly morphed into that as I just kept doing it. Yeah. So it's kind of an interesting journey in that I stumbled upon in some ways, and it just turned out great.
09:04.09
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
09:14.23
Lorie Jones
Well, that's, it's interesting though, because it feels like you were open to those kinds of things coming into your life the same way you're open to, to traveling and, and having those experiences come into your life.
09:19.28
Irene Barnett
Yes. Yes.
09:26.43
Lorie Jones
I bet you, you have very few regrets about not trying something because you seem very open to, you know, but taking a new path.
09:35.16
Irene Barnett
Yeah. Yeah, I would say in general, I in general, my kind of philosophy has always been that I don't I don't really consider, I don't really think that I have regrets, nor do I feel like I've made huge mistakes. I kind of don't look at it that way. I certainly have moments of, oh, I wonder if I had chosen A instead of B, I wonder where I'd be today. But I don't know that I would call that a regret.
10:04.87
Irene Barnett
um And the same with mistakes, for sure. I kind of feel like we make choices based on the toolkit we have at that moment in time.
10:10.28
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
10:14.46
Irene Barnett
And as long as your heart's in the right place, sure, maybe the outcome isn't exactly what you would want it to be, but I don't know that I would call it a mistake.
10:23.69
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
10:24.34
Irene Barnett
It all kind of adds to the learning, you know?
10:26.59
Lorie Jones
Learning experience. Yeah, I love her.
10:27.97
Irene Barnett
Yeah. Yeah.
10:29.58
Lorie Jones
So it's so interesting, too, that you were that sounds like you were in tech, as a woman, in the early days of tech and like, like when, when they were they were doing the coding and like they were bringing these big companies that turned into behemoths and you were there kind of at the ground floor.
10:36.12
Irene Barnett
Mm hmm. Yes.
10:43.76
Irene Barnett
Yes.
10:47.72
Irene Barnett
yes true. Yes. And it was very interesting. And I think that is kind of funny walking into it. Let me just really just tripping into this career at a particular time in that industry and a particular company, the you know, Microsoft, I didn't have expectations of any particular thing.
11:06.85
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
11:10.39
Lorie Jones
Uh huh.
11:11.13
Irene Barnett
Right. So I look back at it and Yeah, it was interesting. And certainly, as a woman, it was it was sort of interesting. um But I didn't have any expectations going in.
11:28.44
Irene Barnett
you know so So I don't know that I can say that it was a struggle necessarily. I mean, I had things.
11:34.10
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
11:35.02
Irene Barnett
I mean, I don't know that there's a woman alive that hasn't come across something that was uncomfortable or just unfortunate in a business setting.
11:39.09
Lorie Jones
something. Yeah.
11:43.01
Irene Barnett
you know um But yeah, I do think that the lack of expectation set me up to potentially have, a in some ways, maybe a better experience.
11:52.93
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that's so cool.
11:54.59
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
11:54.82
Lorie Jones
Well, tell me a little bit about the best investment you've made in yourself along your professional journey. Is there something that you can point to and you're like, Oh, I'm so glad I did that.
12:05.46
Lorie Jones
Because if I didn't, I just wouldn't be where I'm at today.
12:08.62
Irene Barnett
Oh, absolutely. And that would be leaving Microsoft. That that was ah a huge investment and a big risk um because i had um I made the choice to leave
12:11.59
Lorie Jones
hu
12:21.72
Irene Barnett
ah For a couple of reasons, it was way back, like to your point, early on um with Microsoft, and there was a ah big shift happening with ah Bill Gates kind of backing off of his daily you know work there and some of that ah that leadership being handed over to other people. and I kind of saw the company changing a little bit.
12:43.10
Irene Barnett
um and thought this would be a good time to to try something new. and And somebody at Microsoft had said, you know if you went and started your own consulting or your own vendor kind of work,
12:54.70
Irene Barnett
I would hire you tomorrow to to help me with these projects. And I went, OK, well, let's give it six months. I'm going to go ahead and leave Microsoft. This was before kids and before a lot of responsibility. I'm going to leave Microsoft, and I'm going to give this a try for six months and see what happens. And I you know i did my budget spreadsheet, and I'm like, OK, here's the worst case scenario. I'm making very little money, and how do I get by? And kind of had a plan in place for that, you know sort of a risk and mitigation plan, if you will.
13:22.52
Irene Barnett
and um i And left and i then years later, I was still going strong and made way more money than I anticipated and was constantly busy and expanded and brought other people in to help me. and And so that was a bit of a leap of faith. And I am absolutely thrilled that I took that risk because otherwise, yeah, there's no way that I would be where I am today.
13:50.52
Irene Barnett
um in having built other firms up and work in leadership within other consulting firms as well, having run it myself, I can go in, not just as a consultant, but as somebody who has kind of seen how the sausage is made.
13:53.35
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
14:05.83
Irene Barnett
You know what I mean?
14:06.13
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
14:06.39
Irene Barnett
So I understand all the layers that need to be considered when doing stuff in business.
14:10.51
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
14:11.96
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
14:12.40
Lorie Jones
Yeah. how um What gave you the courage? was it Was it the spreadsheet that said, oh, worst case scenario isn't so bad? Was it the confidence of the person who's like, I'd hire you the next minute?
14:24.05
Lorie Jones
like How did you get that fearless, that courage to take the step?
14:28.57
Irene Barnett
I want to say there's an element of just pure stupidity that just decided, just kind of went, what's the worst that can happen? I mean, I've not ever been a very risk averse person.
14:39.09
Irene Barnett
I actually, am i i i become the older I get, obviously the more risk averse I do get in some ways, which I never thought would be me, but it maybe it's just a thing that you can't control.
14:44.94
Lorie Jones
do Yeah.
14:50.09
Irene Barnett
i don't know But at that time in particular, um I kind of, I get a lot of energy out of taking a little bit of a leap of faith. um i And I know that's not true for everybody, but for my personality, that definitely has been part of it.
14:58.37
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
15:05.24
Irene Barnett
um And the background in film production and like, you don't know, you know, what's your next shoot going to be. And so I was sort of used to a little uncertainty. And so I think that that,
15:18.16
Irene Barnett
played very heavily in me making that decision. But absolutely from just a pragmatic perspective, having somebody say, I'm starting, you know, ah you're starting this business and I will actually hire you immediately. So I went into this with a client. So that definitely makes you feel a little bit better because you go well worst case scenario is that this person just hires me and this is all that we're doing and I know exactly what my billable rate will be and I so you really kind of know. um But then what happened in that six months is by the time that six months was up, I had
15:55.74
Irene Barnett
eight subcontractors that were partnering with me. And we had been then, um you know, I had been introduced to a bunch of other people who wanted to hire us to do work. And it just took off.
16:06.60
Irene Barnett
It was crazy. It was sort of the heyday of vendors and consultants at Microsoft. Honestly, it was when little old me couldn't get a master contract at Microsoft um that no longer would ever be possible.
16:20.98
Lorie Jones
Now they've got infrastructure around that sort of stuff, huh?
16:21.16
Irene Barnett
So
16:23.77
Irene Barnett
Well, they got dinged pretty badly around um you know from the federal government and tax and everything else to make sure that they um they that associated or worked with vendors and consultants in a very specific way.
16:40.13
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh.
16:40.26
Irene Barnett
um This was kind of in the Wild West still.
16:43.46
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
16:44.28
Irene Barnett
When anybody could work with them, it was great.
16:47.22
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
16:47.38
Irene Barnett
um Yeah, so the timing also worked for that to work out well as also. So I didn't have to share, you know, I didn't have to give a piece of the profits to another, you know, some vendor company that was going to be my, you know, billing turnstile or whatever.
17:00.59
Irene Barnett
So, yeah.
17:02.42
Lorie Jones
That's kind of cool. That's, and and you do find those industry, and you know, like no matter what profession you're in, you find those startup industries where it feels like, like Bitcoin kind of feels like the wild, wild West right now in finance, right?
17:12.91
Irene Barnett
Right. Yeah, absolutely.
17:14.66
Lorie Jones
like
17:15.33
Irene Barnett
Absolutely. Yeah, before regulations get in there, you know, you can kind of slip in and and get a foothold.
17:18.61
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
17:21.23
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
17:21.32
Lorie Jones
Yeah. What about the worst advice someone gave you? Can you think of a time when someone gave you really bad advice and did you take the advice or did you go ahead and leave it?
17:31.47
Irene Barnett
Um, you know, I'm not very good at taking advice in general. So I will say that, um,
17:43.48
Irene Barnett
The only, you know, I don't know that I've really gotten bad advice from anyone. Again, I don't necessarily go after advice. Not that I'm, but you know, I've gotten a lot of great advice. I would say that the only bad advice I've honestly ever gotten, and and I actually went against it anyway, ah was from my dad.
18:08.83
Irene Barnett
to be frank, he was not into the idea of me going to school to learn film production. Or even before that, when I was high school, I was really interested in and going into theater and acting. um Because i've just always been and the arts were always like a big deal in my life. and And he really just was thoroughly against me going into any kind of an industry like that where It would be a struggle financially. And i mean he's not incorrect at all. um But when you're young, that's the time to do that. right And sometimes you do hit pay dirt, and it's not a struggle anymore. And sometimes you go, no, I think I'll go work at Microsoft as a desktop publisher. It just depends. So I would say that that's the worst advice I've ever gotten. And it's something that has actually really
19:02.03
Irene Barnett
really informed me as a parent with my kids to not poo-poo anything they want to do if it brings them joy.
19:10.79
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. So do you think even though you went to Microsoft and you left the film industry, the 10 years that you spent there um were, ah they they filled your bucket, so to speak, or they were worth it?
19:24.46
Lorie Jones
Like you didn't, you don't wish them away.
19:24.53
Irene Barnett
um they No, no way. No. um There's very little I wish away in my life, honestly, very little.
19:31.24
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
19:32.51
Irene Barnett
um Whether it turned out well or not is beside the point almost in some ways. I think that what happened at that time, I did write a lot, which was very gratifying and really good.
19:44.86
Irene Barnett
So I think the that the fact that I wrote for myself and I like I wrote a screenplay and I tried to go out there and hustle the screenplay and do all the things. That was a good experience to understand that.
19:55.74
Irene Barnett
um The area in film that I was kind of drawn towards was assistant directing and really in a big way that's sort of a PM for a set. So I did learn a lot of super good organizational kind of project manager stuff from doing that that I could apply way outside of that industry.
20:06.35
Lorie Jones
Oh, yeah.
20:12.06
Lorie Jones
That's
20:15.04
Irene Barnett
um I think that
20:15.22
Lorie Jones
so cool.
20:18.08
Irene Barnett
I wouldn't say it filled my creative bucket, and that is what I needed to learn, I think, was that it isn't while the output is very creative, a lot of the steps to get to that are not horribly creative. I'm going to actually backtrack on having said that. and The reason is is because I also believe that almost everything we do in life is creative.
20:40.31
Irene Barnett
So I guess my my understanding or my thinking about what that creative process was, I learned was not what I thought it was, but I also walked away understanding that I can apply that creativity anywhere.
20:57.87
Irene Barnett
Just being a human is super creative, right?
21:00.19
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
21:00.34
Irene Barnett
So it did broaden my idea of what creativity is, I would say.
21:05.15
Lorie Jones
That's kind of cool. I find it interesting, though, that you like left
21:06.54
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
21:10.43
Lorie Jones
filmmaking and and being in the film industry to find a more creative career in tech. like
21:16.65
Irene Barnett
Kind of, isn't that crazy? But it's really true because the part of tech that I am i'm leaning into, you know what it is.
21:20.43
Lorie Jones
ah
21:25.68
Irene Barnett
it's It's creative because there's a huge amount of psychology also behind the area of tech that I have to that i work in, which is that people side of things. And that's really creative because every person is unique, every organization is unique, every specific situation that both the organization and the people find themselves in is create is completely unique. um I find that to be constantly intriguing and interesting. You have to rethink every single time um what you're going to do, how you're going to work with these people, how you're going to get them where they need to be.
22:03.80
Lorie Jones
you
22:04.03
Irene Barnett
And you're right, though. that's And that's hugely creative.
22:08.50
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
22:08.91
Irene Barnett
It's really creative. So you're absolutely right. but in that And that you know goes back to that point of there's creative it's creative anywhere you are, even in finance. it can be an It's really creative.
22:17.40
Lorie Jones
Yeah, especially in finance finance is so much fun.
22:20.06
Irene Barnett
There you go. Yeah, see, it's true. I mean, of course, you can't get too creative with numbers. It depends on what you're working on. But, you know, it's sort of just the way that you approach a problem or a an issue or, you know, as a ah ah set of circumstances, that's the creative part.
22:28.31
Lorie Jones
how you Yeah. crazy there yeah
22:39.54
Irene Barnett
It doesn't, you know, you can think outside the box everywhere.
22:40.06
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And i I'm drawn to those problem-solving, um creative, organizational kind of maneuvers um that sort of work around, like again, with my piece, it's the people piece as well.
22:52.11
Irene Barnett
yes
22:57.36
Lorie Jones
So I'm working on client satisfaction and trying to create an experience for them that feels comfortable inside of finance.
22:58.17
Irene Barnett
Yes.
23:06.20
Lorie Jones
And a lot of times, and if finance is not considered fun as I think it is. so
23:11.84
Irene Barnett
Well, yes and no.
23:11.98
Lorie Jones
ah
23:14.22
Irene Barnett
I mean, I know a lot of people who think finance is a real kick, so I get it.
23:17.39
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:18.62
Irene Barnett
I get it.
23:19.77
Lorie Jones
mayor They're my besties, those ones.
23:19.96
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
23:22.66
Irene Barnett
Yeah, exactly.
23:24.89
Lorie Jones
What about, um, I know that you said you don't have regrets and, and I understand that I actually, you know, look at most things that I've done as like learning experiences too, but, but I would say that there are times in my life where I would like, if I knew then the same things that I know now, and I could redo that situation somehow, I would definitely do it differently.
23:34.79
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
23:41.72
Irene Barnett
here
23:48.13
Lorie Jones
Do you have something like that?
23:50.85
Irene Barnett
I do. I don't know that I would redo it differently only because of the outcomes. But I do have one of those you know sliding door moments where I made a choice to not do something.
24:02.17
Irene Barnett
and do something else instead. And I do go back to that choice. So I had an opportunity to move to Dublin, Ireland to work with Microsoft um to help them set up their, I mean, this is again years ago, but they're kind of their European um office for localization and translation for all of their products and everything. And that that is in Dublin.
24:30.25
Irene Barnett
and um And I had ah had an offer to go with my then boss with her to Dublin to help set this thing up. At the time, I happened to have just met this man and we ended up getting married and having a couple of kids. And I didn't go because that relationship was just starting. And I knew that that would probably not survive a move like that.
24:56.08
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
24:56.88
Irene Barnett
So I do sometimes wonder um now, ah lo these many years later, um whether or not you know what my life would look like had I taken that path.
25:02.76
Lorie Jones
yeah
25:10.91
Irene Barnett
I don't, in a million years would never say I regret that choice.
25:14.56
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
25:14.63
Irene Barnett
I have two of the most remarkable suns on the planet and there's not a thing I would change, absolutely. But that would be that one sort of you know fork in the road
25:25.02
Lorie Jones
yeah
25:25.11
Irene Barnett
that I do look back at now and then. But again, I also think that even at that age when I was building my career, I still had an innate understanding, and I think of it now, I didn't think of it at the time, of balance and how important my personal life was. And that I needed i knew I needed to have both of those things fed. I couldn't do one or the other.
25:50.41
Irene Barnett
And I think I knew that, like deep down inside. And that was part of the choice that I made. um and And I'm glad that I did that. I'm glad that I did that. Because it did set a tone for me to balance that ongoing in my life.
26:06.39
Lorie Jones
That's really, I, I struggle with balance, you know, i yeah, everyone does, but I, I'm, i I should be better than that now, but I'm still not.
26:09.91
Irene Barnett
Everybody does, man. Yeah.
26:20.10
Lorie Jones
And I wonder if that's so interesting thinking back on that turning point or that pivotal point and realizing that you made a choice that brought you more balance.
26:21.05
Irene Barnett
yeah
26:26.02
Irene Barnett
Mm hmm.
26:30.86
Irene Barnett
Yes, yeah.
26:31.67
Lorie Jones
rather than maybe a choice that in the long run would have been very you know lucrative and or you know you would have been much further ahead than you are today, but you made a choice that was better for your life as a whole.
26:39.15
Irene Barnett
Mm hmm.
26:48.35
Irene Barnett
Yeah, and I don't know if I would be better or further along than I am today. I think it would just be different.
26:53.98
Lorie Jones
Different, yeah.
26:55.00
Irene Barnett
Yeah, I don't think that I would have been more successful, necessarily, I think I'd be successful in a different way.
27:04.50
Lorie Jones
And so and but so you made a choice maybe that was right for you.
27:08.32
Irene Barnett
Absolutely, absolutely.
27:09.39
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
27:10.37
Irene Barnett
And, and and I i do I do think, you know i I wonder, because I have thought about this quite a bit, um just because it's interesting to look back at things like that.
27:21.33
Lorie Jones
yeah
27:22.16
Irene Barnett
you know um But i I also wonder that i I have a sense that I need balance in my life. This has always been something that has jumped out at me all through my life.
27:34.30
Irene Barnett
I'm a Libra, maybe that's why. I don't know. And the scales have to be like exactly the same.
27:41.24
Lorie Jones
There you go.
27:42.46
Irene Barnett
I know, right? But i i I wonder, had I gone to Dublin, I suspect I would have made choices that would have created that balance in the under those circumstances as well.
27:53.64
Lorie Jones
hu
27:53.80
Irene Barnett
I don't think that, ah because it just felt authentic to who I am.
27:53.91
Lorie Jones
Huh.
27:58.38
Lorie Jones
That makes sense.
27:59.61
Irene Barnett
Yeah. I think, again, I just think it would have looked different.
28:00.59
Lorie Jones
Huh.
28:02.76
Lorie Jones
Look different.
28:03.51
Irene Barnett
But I don't know that it would have been better or worse.
28:06.21
Lorie Jones
yeah that's so interesting I hadn't thought of it that way before, but but yeah it is always interesting what the alternate reality, and I guess I always think well the alternate lori would be worse off or better off or something like that, but what if the alternate lori is exactly where she's meant to be it's just different.
28:22.89
Irene Barnett
Yep. Yeah, different surroundings. Maybe there's different people around you.
28:28.37
Lorie Jones
yeah.
28:28.51
Irene Barnett
you know I don't know. i Yeah, who knows? But i i I don't think I would have been either better or worse.
28:36.49
Lorie Jones
Hmm.
28:37.64
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
28:38.60
Lorie Jones
That's interesting. What about Irene, if you go back and and talk to yourself at the beginning of your journey when you were just starting out 2021, 22, do you have some advice for that young lady?
28:47.20
Irene Barnett
but
28:52.68
Irene Barnett
You know, I do and I thought about this because i i've had i've I've had a lot of really wonderful opportunities to mentor people along the way, um especially women, not just women though, men too.
29:02.67
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
29:07.39
Irene Barnett
um and And I think that the number one thing that I would want to tell myself to feel confident about is the fact that, because I can see it now, it's because this is feedback I've gotten in my career all along, is that I think my greatest skill is showing up authentically to every interaction that I am in. I honestly think that that above and beyond understanding of technology, understanding of, you know, the pro-sci
29:42.50
Irene Barnett
way of doing change management or any of these things right that I've accomplished, these skill sets that I have. Way beyond that is that I show up to every interaction with coworkers or clients or anyone else that I'm interacting with the same regardless of who they are. And I always am just unapologetically myself.
30:08.15
Irene Barnett
um I don't think I understood when I was in my early 20s that that actually had the value that it actually has.
30:19.50
Irene Barnett
I really don't think I understood that. So I think that I was running and chasing things that that, you know, knowledge or contacts or whatever it is, not that those things aren't worth chasing, mind you. But I think I put way more weight on that being what was going to make me successful than the simple fact that people like to work with me.
30:44.30
Irene Barnett
And I wouldn't have known that in my 20s because you just haven't had enough runway under you yet, right?
30:49.67
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
30:50.46
Irene Barnett
I mean, you don't know.
30:50.62
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
30:52.02
Irene Barnett
um Those are things that you that you go aha at years later when you have a whole proof of concept behind you on who you are and how you're showing up, right?
30:57.63
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
31:02.24
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
31:03.86
Irene Barnett
So super easy to say that now. But if I could say that to myself then, I think that I would have enjoyed the ride a little bit more. I really do.
31:15.07
Lorie Jones
Yeah, i I like that. There is something recently, I can't remember what, but, um oh, organized chaos, like making organization out of chaos. I always say that's my superpower is that I can turn chaos into organization.
31:27.07
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
31:29.55
Lorie Jones
And it never occurred to me that other people can't do that. Like that that that that that's is not their gift, that that's not the thing that they love more than anything and on earth.
31:33.34
Irene Barnett
bright Right.
31:38.09
Lorie Jones
and and And that doesn't sound like a ah super exciting thing to do, but but for me, it's it's a unique thing. And and that idea of like talking to yourself and saying, hey, lean into those things that you are that are that come naturally to you and that you're good at, that you're uniquely qualified to do, and and show up there.
32:00.38
Irene Barnett
Oh, yeah. And it's not just that you're good at that, Lori. It's that you bring your special sauce to it. That's the thing. You bring your your take, your personality, your enthusiasm. And that's only you. That's not anybody else in the world can do exactly what you do.
32:20.14
Lorie Jones
Oh.
32:20.61
Irene Barnett
And it's true. Well, it's true of everybody. It really is.
32:23.05
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
32:23.41
Irene Barnett
And I think understanding that it's so hard for us to hear those things, which is just sad in itself.
32:23.78
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
32:29.24
Irene Barnett
I'm just going to say we should be better. We should be much better to ourselves in this world.
32:33.95
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
32:34.01
Irene Barnett
But I think that it's not just that your outcomes are probably remarkable.
32:34.13
Lorie Jones
hmm.
32:38.25
Irene Barnett
Like you you hit it. Like you take that chaos. You make it structured. You make it something that people can work within.
32:43.49
Lorie Jones
Hmm.
32:44.37
Irene Barnett
But it's how you do it, specifically how you do that. Other people can probably have the outcomes, but nobody can do it exactly the way that you do. And that's a big deal.
32:59.93
Lorie Jones
and That is that feels so nice to me and I'm not sure I can believe it fully yet and and that
33:04.94
Irene Barnett
Oh, it'll take time, but just keep working on it because that's
33:10.74
Lorie Jones
ah
33:12.21
Irene Barnett
when you get to the ripe old age of me embrace that why not oh
33:22.46
Lorie Jones
so no Yeah, I could see though, I could see why you would want to, why would you, you would want your younger self to know that earlier.
33:32.06
Irene Barnett
Yeah, it's it's we need to be so much kinder to ourselves.
33:32.84
Lorie Jones
If you could.
33:35.46
Irene Barnett
And we need to be so give give ourselves so much more grace, so much more grace than we do.
33:38.42
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
33:40.94
Irene Barnett
I i do think that women are especially challenged with that. And that makes that breaks my heart.
33:45.68
Lorie Jones
yeah
33:47.83
Irene Barnett
I have throughout my life, too. I mean, believe me, I didn't come out of the womb feeling confident.
33:50.49
Lorie Jones
Right.
33:53.38
Irene Barnett
That doesn't exist. um but But I do think that it's something that that women have to work a lot harder at.
34:01.52
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
34:02.57
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
34:02.79
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. And I wish that sometimes I wish I could just like do a little tape recording of ah that, you know, that the book where she stands and she looks in the mirror and she says, you as kind, you as, you as beautiful.
34:14.84
Irene Barnett
Oh, yes, i see yes.
34:15.20
Lorie Jones
or Yeah.
34:15.80
Irene Barnett
So that little, oh, the little girl that, oh, I love that.
34:18.33
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
34:18.64
Irene Barnett
That is the cutest thing ever.
34:19.19
Lorie Jones
And i like, you know, just for every woman to just carry around that recorder. And when they're feeling not quite cool as they really are, just, you know, let me tell you some cool things.
34:23.70
Irene Barnett
It's true. Exactly. It's yes, it's exactly true. Yes.
34:31.68
Lorie Jones
What about, what scared you the most um at the beginning of your journey or or during your career? And and maybe it's nothing. You seem pretty fearless to me.
34:43.57
Irene Barnett
Well, I probably, well, if fearless or dumb, stupid, just who knows? You know, um it's, you know, that youthful ignorance, I embraced it probably more than I needed to.
34:56.08
Lorie Jones
Oh yeah, I love that.
34:58.18
Irene Barnett
I would say that at the beginning, especially, you know, since um my particular career path was a lot more um you know being a consultant and having to kind of survive a bit on my wits and you know business sense that I was learning you know along the way as I was doing it. i It took quite a while. This is very common for many people who are trying to you know be entrepreneurs or do something on their own. It's just that knowledge that
35:32.29
Irene Barnett
financially, um it all works out. um That takes time. And again, it's sort of that proof of concept that oh, yeah, you're right. You know, I had a really low month this month, but I had way too much the next month. And then at a certain point, you start to go, okay, I've seen now all the cycles.
35:51.61
Irene Barnett
of a couple of years of doing this. And I understand that when it's down or slow, I can actually enjoy that time and not fret and freak out about whether or not it's dried up.
36:00.36
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
36:06.10
Irene Barnett
That's it. I'm done. It was only a two-year experimenter.
36:07.90
Lorie Jones
Well, it was a good two year run.
36:10.16
Irene Barnett
That's all. Yeah, woo. Obviously not for me. I'm going to have to go find a job. um so That was my biggest stress, I think, in doing it, that um i I learned after you know a couple of years of having to see you know sort of that that balance sheet up and going up and down. and um I finally went ah he finally kind of realized that that's just the way that this sort of job works. This is just how it works. um And then eventually was able to go, oh, look at me. I don't have anything for two weeks in February. I'm going to go on vacation. I'm going to go do something with that time. I'm not going to just sit here and stress out and and and get you know all freaked out about stuff. so
36:58.53
Irene Barnett
so Definitely, I think for me, the financial stress of it was the scariest part. Just, is this really going to work? um I always know I can go get a job if I have to.
37:11.30
Irene Barnett
I'm never above that basic idea of, hey, if I have to, I can be a barista. I mean, I'll make rent.
37:19.13
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
37:19.27
Irene Barnett
you know i have you know So I've never been sort of the person who thought that anything was all that below me when it came to necessity like that.
37:20.09
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
37:28.87
Irene Barnett
Um, and that was something else I kind of had to learn was sort of like, yeah, what's the worst that can happen for real? What really is the worst that can happen? And it isn't nearly as bad as you think it is.
37:39.61
Lorie Jones
Yeah. yeah
37:40.53
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
37:41.12
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that's probably that your spreadsheet when you first started out and you did your, you did your little spreadsheet you're like okay this is, this is what I need to do.
37:45.92
Irene Barnett
Yes.
37:49.65
Lorie Jones
What's the worst that that can happen. Okay, let's try it.
37:51.95
Irene Barnett
Exactly. And then we'll live in that reality until it's proven otherwise.
37:55.70
Lorie Jones
yeah I have a client I think is hilarious. He always tells me, he's like, what I really want Lori is rice and beans. I don't want to eat any bird food.
38:06.50
Lorie Jones
I want rice and beans through the entire retirement. And I'm like this, you know, high net worth individual. He's like so far beyond rice and beans, but that is his worst scenario.
38:15.52
Irene Barnett
I know, but if you have that right, you have that idea that that's the worst that can happen is that I love rice and beans.
38:20.92
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
38:22.30
Irene Barnett
It's yummy. And it's good for you. Okay, it's certainly not that bad.
38:24.48
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah, yeah and we'll make it make it better from there. I like that idea.
38:29.50
Irene Barnett
I love that.
38:31.76
Lorie Jones
What about um ah along your journey? Did you face any unique challenges because you were a woman?
38:37.50
Irene Barnett
Oh, my goodness. I would say yes. I would say, you know, I've come in, Throughout the years, I've had moments here and there of having Like havet I had one or two instances of men just not respecting me as a manager. um And really, and again, this was so long ago. I'm not even sure that they, I know that they wouldn't get away with now. They got away with then. And I found that frustrating and, um but always just try to work through it um with them and figure it out only in one time did I have to like escalate that.
39:19.38
Irene Barnett
Situation and it was dealt with and it was what it was and we all everybody moved on um But I'd say from a broader perspective It was very Hard again, you know kind of going back to that idea of balance It was impossible to actually have good balance when I was a full-time working entrepreneur and had twins and I know, I know. And God laughs. I mean, I don't even know. And I had my kids quite late in life as well. um And as much as I think we tried to, ah you know, my husband and I tried to kind of say, this is how we're this is going to be an equal partnership. This is how this is going to go. It's not going to be, you know, it just.
40:12.97
Irene Barnett
I don't know if it's just just general gender roles that just we just kind of fall into. um There's always that typical female thing is like, well, nobody else is going to do it. Therefore, I have to do it. Therefore, you kind of pile it on yourself as well.
40:31.26
Irene Barnett
And so trying to operate as a consultant, which was great in one way in that I wasn't going into an office every day. I had a very flexible schedule. That was definitely very helpful. But then you know doing time at school, helping with reading, doing all that you know being present as a parent, um just the physical toll of having, you know especially when they were like toddlers.
40:57.12
Lorie Jones
Exhaustion.
40:57.63
Irene Barnett
ah having no transition time between work and parenting. um And really at the end of the day, somewhat being um from the from the psychological or the emotional parenting perspective being kind of primary on that level.
41:13.61
Irene Barnett
um And I don't mean to diss my ex-husband in any possible way. um But but it was a lot.
41:17.80
Lorie Jones
No.
41:20.17
Irene Barnett
And I did find that one day I kind of looked up and went, Oh, our gender roles are pretty traditional right now.
41:23.10
Lorie Jones
You
41:26.91
Irene Barnett
And I other than the fact that I'm working full time.
41:27.16
Lorie Jones
know,
41:31.57
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I sometimes feel that way too.
41:32.01
Irene Barnett
On top of
41:33.70
Lorie Jones
Like I do a full-time work and then I'm a full-time mom too.
41:36.79
Irene Barnett
And then kind of everything, exactly right.
41:37.14
Lorie Jones
I'm like, where did I, how do I get my head in this?
41:41.45
Irene Barnett
And so so I found that very challenging and incredibly depleting. And of course, our wellness goes completely to the side.
41:51.99
Irene Barnett
It is non-existent. It's not a priority. Um, so this is, you know, not a unique story in the least. In fact, it's incredibly typical, um, is my experience and knowing all my friends and all the people who have been, you know, have been in the situation.
42:10.08
Irene Barnett
Um, that has always been a very specifically female ah problem, I think.
42:18.67
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
42:20.06
Irene Barnett
I don't know, I don't have any answers on how that's supposed to get fixed.
42:25.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that was my next question.
42:25.70
Irene Barnett
I would love to,
42:26.67
Lorie Jones
Is there anything that would have made that easier for you?
42:30.70
Irene Barnett
just my specific circumstances are such that it it, there wasn't a lot of leeway in changing that. I just don't think there was any, um I did end up also staying in, in jobs or,
42:46.47
Irene Barnett
um or work that I would have under different circumstances not put up with their state, but I had to because, you know, my husband was also an entrepreneur so you know there's, it you know, it was just a i i There was periods of time of feeling incredibly stuck in the situation that I was in and kind of like, when is it my turn?
43:04.98
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
43:10.30
Irene Barnett
When do I get to take a risk and do something new or different? And that time kind of never came.
43:15.24
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
43:16.73
Irene Barnett
you know So so that that really was the biggest challenge I think that I've had as a woman and a parent and it augh and a business woman and all the things.
43:29.01
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
43:32.14
Irene Barnett
right um you know I have an incredibly close relationship with my kids. They're both 22 years old now and in college.
43:40.09
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
43:41.20
Irene Barnett
It was incredibly close. um you know and And they see this woman who has juggled all these, I mean, they have a front row seat. to be the best feminists on the planet, the best allies.
43:54.22
Lorie Jones
you Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
43:56.23
Irene Barnett
And they are, and they absolutely are. and they give And I look at them and their generation and everything now and other people um you know coming. And I hope that um those sorts of struggles, they won't go away.
44:08.44
Irene Barnett
I mean, these are just parts of life to some extent. But I do think there's ah probably a vast, and there will be continue to be a vast improvement in that scenario from from the that home life you know perspective.
44:15.42
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah, i watch I've got kids that age two as well, mine are 26 to 18. And I watch as they start their own relationships and the roles that they take on and the roles that they don't take on.
44:24.75
Irene Barnett
Yeah. Yes.
44:32.24
Lorie Jones
And and and that it seems to be a little bit more cooperative um and so as far as that goes.
44:32.36
Irene Barnett
Yes.
44:37.74
Irene Barnett
I agree.
44:39.71
Lorie Jones
And I will be so fascinated and interested in watching my daughter-in-laws navigate that piece because um because i i just I remember those years.
44:48.36
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
44:51.28
Lorie Jones
i I almost cry for you as I think of those bone deep exhaustion and you make cupcakes for school tomorrow or something along those lines.
44:54.83
Irene Barnett
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
45:01.35
Lorie Jones
Just want to go give every woman in the world a hug and tell her, honey, you are doing great.
45:06.31
Irene Barnett
Yes. And I do I also think another piece of that is simply the fact that um we talk about this stuff now. Like it's okay to put your hand up and go, this doesn't feel fair or this doesn't feel you know this doesn't feel good for me. I need a break. i need you know I feel like there's a lot more open dialogue amongst women too about what the reality of parenting is. um I think that you know back in the olden days,
45:37.43
Irene Barnett
um I don't know that people wanted to talk about the fact that, hey, I'm days where I absolutely ah hate being a parent.
45:43.47
Lorie Jones
yeah
45:43.67
Irene Barnett
And I'm sorry I had kids. I mean, listen, when you know what, you totally, I mean, come on, I am with you.
45:48.05
Lorie Jones
I would sell them on the corner.
45:53.72
Irene Barnett
i have had those I have had those days like crazy. And I do think that that dialogue and that being okay to talk about is way more acceptable now than it was even 20 years ago when I was doing it.
46:03.32
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree ah wholeheartedly with that. I, yeah, there are days when I just remember my husband coming home and I, I delayed my career, um, and stayed home with my kids, you know, during the first 10 or 15 years. And I just remember him showing up at the door after work and I would be like, I can't, I gotta to go.
46:27.27
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
46:29.41
Lorie Jones
and meet up Yeah.
46:29.55
Irene Barnett
I've tapped out. I'm taking a knee.
46:31.54
Lorie Jones
Yeah. yeah
46:32.89
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
46:33.12
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
46:34.03
Irene Barnett
Oh, yeah.
46:34.76
Lorie Jones
And, you know, from the different interviews that I've done, and and as I started my working career, I do remember having kids where I would take my older kids out of school to watch my younger kids because they were sick and I couldn't get out of, you know, I couldn't not go to work.
46:48.58
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
46:49.94
Lorie Jones
It just wasn't, it would have been bad.
46:54.59
Irene Barnett
Yeah, no, I know. And I i just don't man just don't have that same. They don't have that same experience.
47:03.00
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
47:03.22
Irene Barnett
They just don't.
47:03.98
Lorie Jones
Yeah, they, yeah, they don't.
47:04.22
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
47:06.31
Lorie Jones
So, well, what Irene is a thing that you are most proud of.
47:12.59
Irene Barnett
Honestly, it's those boys. It's my kids. It really is. It really is. It's another thing. I'm not going to say I stumbled into being a parent because that sounds just irresponsible. But I certainly wasn't expecting twins.
47:25.57
Irene Barnett
I will say that.
47:26.40
Lorie Jones
Oh yeah.
47:26.59
Irene Barnett
That was a total surprise. um but I do think, I'm very proud of them as is humans. I think they're just remarkable men. I think that I'm very proud that I'm adding some remarkable men to the world. I think that we need a lot of that right now, and I'm happy to contribute somebody you know some good ones. um But I think that being being that that mother, that businesswoman, the person who leaned in, who got it done,
48:02.03
Irene Barnett
all while being able to make sure that they understood that they were always the priority, has created in them this understanding of the of their privilege of that being a couple of white males in this society.
48:04.49
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
48:18.02
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
48:19.35
Irene Barnett
They're very aware of their privilege from that perspective, but also so that they can see, I don't know, kind of how fierce women are. Honestly, i think I think as difficult as those years were, where you did want to just give your children away, um that they see all of that from a very young age, they're taking all that in.
48:41.98
Irene Barnett
and i think it's um it's a It has formed how they look at women, and I think it has formed them into these incredibly empathetic and respectful men.
48:55.74
Lorie Jones
yeah
48:55.94
Irene Barnett
And I'm very proud of that. I'm very proud of them.
49:00.15
Lorie Jones
yeah
49:00.24
Irene Barnett
Yeah, that definitely trumps everything else.
49:01.19
Lorie Jones
i love
49:03.69
Lorie Jones
i I love that because I always I often think of my daughters and looking up and seeing you know yeah how I try to show up and and what I try to put out in this world and and helping them to be the best that they can be but I too have
49:16.86
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
49:21.37
Lorie Jones
eat of sons and and my three oldest are boys and watching how they have treated the women in their life and who they how they are encouraging and helping them to to grow and and develop.
49:28.07
Irene Barnett
Yes.
49:35.63
Lorie Jones
that's it is It's huge.
49:37.48
Irene Barnett
It's huge. That is not a small thing. It's bigger than anything we could possibly do, honestly.
49:40.09
Lorie Jones
No.
49:42.52
Irene Barnett
It's amazing.
49:42.70
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
49:43.71
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
49:46.49
Lorie Jones
if you If you were um talking to someone who was starting down this path that you're already so successful at, and it's a little bit of a winding path, a little different twists and turns, new adventures, but how what would you tell her, someone um that was just starting to make to help her be as successful as you are?
49:56.53
Irene Barnett
is definitely Yes, yes.
50:09.40
Irene Barnett
Well, I think there's a couple of things. I mean, one is kind of going back to that showing up authentically as yourself, right? um I think especially in business, especially if you're in a male-dominated industry.
50:23.13
Irene Barnett
I think, and I've seen it a ton with a lot of different women, very successful women and women who are starting out, the whole spectrum. um When you show up and to, you know, I have been in conference rooms where I was the only woman amongst a dozen men more times than not in my career.
50:43.49
Irene Barnett
And I have seen other women in similar situations show up it under those circumstances. And I've seen a lot of different ways that they that they do that. So one thing that you know So it's piggybacking off of that conversation around authenticity and being just who you are, no matter who is in the room. So whether this is a boardroom and we have a bunch of CEOs and CTOs and C-level C-suite people sitting around in the room, or whether or not you're sitting with a project team and you're just trying to work out some problems, I don't ever show up or talk differently regardless of who is sitting at that table.
51:29.77
Irene Barnett
That I think is incredibly important because what I've seen over the years often is that women will show up in those circumstances trying to be a man. They're not showing up as just a strong, smart, capable, and successful woman. They're showing up trying to equate, you know, kind of to relate to the men on their level rather than just standing in who they are and showing up confidently or at least pretending, you know, fake it till you get make it.
52:02.99
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I know always.
52:04.78
Irene Barnett
You know, I mean, even if you don't feel confident, try to show up confidently.
52:09.65
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
52:09.79
Irene Barnett
um So you don't have to navigate that male-dominated environment by any, you don't have to navigate it as anything other than who you are.
52:18.51
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
52:20.75
Irene Barnett
That is going to be your best chance at success.
52:22.29
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
52:23.42
Irene Barnett
It really is. Because when you show up as somebody else, it might maybe and maybe not, but it might work for that particular moment in time, but it's not going to be a sustainable sustainable thing and it will not work long-term.
52:35.97
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
52:37.44
Irene Barnett
um So i mean i mean I think that's one, in telling a young person who's starting out in business to be confident is an absurd thing to ask of anybody.
52:49.90
Irene Barnett
It takes years to build confidence.
52:51.65
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
52:52.13
Irene Barnett
So that's not necessarily realistic.
52:54.11
Lorie Jones
Mm
52:54.33
Irene Barnett
But I do think that trying really hard to just be yourself is really important.
52:58.53
Lorie Jones
hmm.
53:00.37
Irene Barnett
I think the other piece, and again, it's kind of going back to that um you know, giving yourself a lot of grace in certain situations, know that you are gonna have missteps. You're gonna say the wrong thing or you're not gonna show up prepared or whatever it is. And owning those things is really, really important because that's how you grow. It's how you show up in a, you know, with humility,
53:31.70
Irene Barnett
and you show up with, there was a quote that I absolutely love by Dan Harris that i I literally just saw this morning. And I was like, oh, I gotta mention this to you because I thought you'd like it. It says, don't be afraid to be wrong. If you're not being humbled regularly, you're probably not paying attention. And I really like that because especially at the beginning, well, through our whole life, it's not even just in the beginning, we're constantly,
54:00.49
Irene Barnett
having missteps. Everybody is and anybody who says otherwise is absolutely lying and probably doing the worst job of all of us. I just feel like know, know that you're gonna, you know, you're gonna not do your best or not be your best on certain days.
54:17.55
Irene Barnett
And it's okay. It's okay. It's it part of the fabric. You know, don't be too hard on yourself.
54:22.45
Lorie Jones
yeah I like that idea. i do I've got a team of young ladies here and i I'm you know mentoring them and bringing them up to enter the finance realm so there'll be more by man ah you know women in finance.
54:38.07
Irene Barnett
Lovely.
54:38.47
Lorie Jones
that i know But, um, but that's, that's one thing that I'm like, there's probably not, there's probably not anything you can do that I can't fix.
54:38.71
Irene Barnett
Fantastic.
54:48.03
Irene Barnett
Right.
54:51.19
Lorie Jones
Like it doesn't, I can't think of a thing.
54:51.57
Irene Barnett
Exactly.
54:54.88
Lorie Jones
I said, if there is one thing that you could do that I can't fix, I will let you know. Don't do that thing. Like otherwise, like we can probably fix it.
55:00.36
Irene Barnett
Right.
55:03.39
Irene Barnett
Yes, exactly. We catastrophize everything.
55:06.10
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
55:06.31
Irene Barnett
And we get inside our own head. And whatever it is we did or said feels 1,000 times worse than it actually is. And there's ah half the time, I bet you, people didn't even notice that it happened, right?
55:18.52
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:20.33
Irene Barnett
We're not as important as we think we are to the outside world.
55:23.89
Lorie Jones
Yeah, A1 100%.
55:25.22
Irene Barnett
And that can be a liberating thing to realize.
55:28.81
Lorie Jones
Yeah, you probably didn't even notice, yeah, exactly.
55:31.32
Irene Barnett
like Totally. i mean the The number of times or ah after a meeting or something, when I was internally incredibly frustrated, let's say, and then I get out of the meeting and I turn to somebody, I'll go, did I did i sound just completely rude in there?
55:45.66
Irene Barnett
And they're like, what are you talking about? I'm like, oh, I see. I felt like I was being really rude because I was so frustrated. But I was all about internally what I was thinking and feeling. They're like, you're crazy.
55:55.75
Irene Barnett
I have no idea what you're talking about.
55:56.93
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I don't know what. Yeah.
55:58.41
Irene Barnett
I know. We do that to ourselves all the time.
55:59.07
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
56:00.93
Irene Barnett
Yeah.
56:01.30
Lorie Jones
That's funny. Well, thank you Irene so much for talking about your journey and just lending your insight. I've learned so much and I really am you know going to take some of these concepts and sort of think on them a little while because i that's how i process I process a little slower than the computers that you're used to.
56:18.84
Lorie Jones
And I like to think about things a little bit.
56:19.71
Irene Barnett
Well, you're in finance. This makes perfect sense, of course.
56:25.02
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
56:25.84
Irene Barnett
Most people do, yes.
56:27.30
Lorie Jones
Yeah, but I love that I just love some of the concepts that we've talked about and kind of um that idea that that you have intrinsic worth that you really are, you know, authentically who you are is there's no one else like you, I'm going to think on that a little bit Irene.
56:45.54
Irene Barnett
Oh, yes. Well, you should because it's absolutely the truth.
56:47.03
Lorie Jones
but
56:48.32
Irene Barnett
I have full confidence in this.
56:51.40
Lorie Jones
yeah
56:51.48
Irene Barnett
It's been lovely chatting.
56:51.88
Lorie Jones
but
56:53.23
Irene Barnett
I absolutely loved this. It was really fun.
56:55.67
Lorie Jones
Thank you, thank you for doing it. If I have a young lady who wants to get with you and ask some questions or um how does she do that?
57:04.30
Irene Barnett
Absolutely. um I am happy. i My email. Just shoot me an email, LinkedIn on LinkedIn. That's also a great place to get a hold of me. um Absolutely.
57:16.16
Irene Barnett
I'm always happy to talk with people, i especially younger women coming into the world and navigating all this weird stuff.
57:23.88
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
57:24.31
Irene Barnett
Absolutely. Always happy to chat.
57:26.39
Lorie Jones
Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
57:29.86
Irene Barnett
I do too. I really loved it. Thank you so much, Lori.