In today’s episode, Lorie Jones sits down with the trailblazing Shelby Nicholl, a powerhouse in wealth management and founder of the Muriel Network.
Shelby’s journey is a masterclass in maintaining your authenticity while climbing the corporate ladder. From defying gender biases to mastering work–life harmony, Shelby’s strategies and stories will ignite your ambition. Discover how affirmation and manifestation fueled her success and learn the art of effective negotiation.
Buckle up for this dynamic conversation that’s sure to inspire your next big move!
Show Highlights:
- Discover the Muriel Network and how it can help you. [00:05:29]
- The power of women’s support networks and executive coaching. [00:09:24]
- How gender-bias awareness builds women’s resilience. [00:14:26]
- Do you prioritize and manage this intangible wealth? [00:20:11]
- Tips to leverage a collaborative approach to negotiation. [00:21:39]
- Learn how to unlock your strengths early in your career. [00:27:59]
- Uncover resources to overcome impostor syndrome. [00:32:08]
- Marathon vs. sprint philosophy to find work–life balance. [00:35:59]
- Pivotal career advice for women in male-dominated fields. [00:37:35]
- Three key tips for young women starting their careers. [00:45:05]
To contact Shelby Nicholl, go to https://www.murielnetwork.com/.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review! For more information about Lorie Jones, go to http://fearless-females.com/
00:01.71
loriejones7
Good morning. So thanks again for joining us on Fearless Females. I am here today with Shelby Nickel and she is the founder of Muriel Network. I'm excited to get to hear about your journey and thanks so much for doing this for us.
00:16.38
Shelby Nicholl
Oh, thank you for having me. It's fun to be on this side of the table.
00:20.63
loriejones7
So I always start out with my favorite question Shelby and it is, I'm a reader. I love reading. What's your favorite book?
00:28.87
Shelby Nicholl
Oh my gosh, I loved that you started with this question because I'm also a reader. I've been setting my goals each year on Goodreads and the whole thing. um So I have two two books that I recommend. One of them though is like my childhood favorite book, which is called The Outsiders by Essie Hinton. And I think so many of us feel sometimes a little on the outside.
00:47.10
loriejones7
you
00:52.36
Shelby Nicholl
I know I did as a young adult and still sometimes do, so that book really always has resonated with me. And then the second favorite book I have is, this will surprise you or anyone listening, is that it's a Stephen King book, but it's his memoir called On Writing. I am not a Stephen King fiction fan. I don't like horror. I don't like such big suspense as what he writes. But his memoir about on writing is like the craft of being a writer, which I just adore. um He writes 10 pages a day every day. That's how he's so prolific. So just think there's so much that we can learn from that type of hard work.
01:36.62
loriejones7
I like that one of our our ah values here at Fidelis is discipline and the idea of like being consistent and doing it every single day. So that idea is, it resonates with me kind of, I really like the idea of being consistent and always writing and trying even when kind of what you put out, maybe not so great that day. but doing it anyway. And um i I was shocked. I almost, my jaw almost dropped when you said Stephen King because I'm the same way.
02:06.84
Shelby Nicholl
I know.
02:08.59
loriejones7
I'm like, he's scary. He scares me.
02:10.67
Shelby Nicholl
Yes, exactly. Totally agree. he is It is a scary writer. I cannot watch the movies. I canno cannot read the books. But this book was so beautiful. but And to your point about just doing it every day, that's his his his thing was like, some days it's good writing. Some days it's crap. But I write every day, at least 10 pages a day. If it's flowing, I can keep going. If it's not flowing, I just have to do my 10 pages.
02:37.56
loriejones7
Yeah, I like that. I love that idea. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself. Shelby, tell us about your journey, how you got where you are, and kind of a little bit about what you do.
02:49.18
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, sure. So um I am a career corporate person. I spent 25 years in corporate America. I call myself now a corporate refugee or a corporate escapee um at times. And most of my career has been around financial services and specifically wealth management. So I started my career at AG Edwards back when it was still AG Edwards before it was acquired by Wachovia and Wells Fargo. um I then went on to spend some time at a market research consultancy, um where I learned really around asking questions of consumers. um And I took those learnings into Edward Jones, where I spent about a decade um with some of the most fun work I've ever done in my career, was definitely at Edward Jones, as we talked with advisors and investors about what did they want in the wealth management industry.
03:44.52
Shelby Nicholl
And then I spent a couple years at LPL Financial, which was kind of the opposite of an Edward Jones in that it's built around the independent ah the independent financial advisor and wealth planner versus at Edward Jones, everybody works inside of the Edward Jones system, so to speak. So I've had quite a career. I've had a career I could never have dreamt of as a child. um I knew I wanted to be a VP someday. That's all I really knew as a child. And you know um I was able to reach those goals, which has been great. But while I've had that career that's been so amazing, I also felt, at times, overlooked and underutilized. And I really wanted to have more impact. And so that's led to this latest chapter for me, which is,
04:28.77
Shelby Nicholl
an entrepreneurship chapter, which started at the end of last year. So my business today includes really two two pieces. One side is Muriel Network, and it is all around how do we accelerate the success of women in wealth management? So both the corporate women as well as female financial advisors, how do we accelerate the success, move more of us into the top ranks, move more of us into the advisor population? And then the second side of my business is with is consulting with advisors who are transforming their practices, usually by moving firms or some type of an M and&A activity or perhaps transitioning to an ah RIA. So that's what I'm doing today.
05:11.92
loriejones7
So you guys can see now why I asked Shelby to be on the podcast because we are sisters at heart getting more women into financial services and um and more into helping other women to kind of understand finance and and grow that um that understanding. I i love that ah we're both on the same page there. So thanks, Shelby, for pushing that forward.
05:40.29
Shelby Nicholl
Well, absolutely. And I'll just say, too, like Muriel Network was created with that idea of how do we close the gaps? How do we close the gaps for women in wealth management who are in the industry? And how do we close the gaps for women as investors? Because we're not investing as much as women at as our male counterparts are. So how do you close that gap? How do you create an industry that is better serving women investors? And I think part of that is having more women in the industry.
06:10.86
loriejones7
Yeah, you're you're speaking my language. i i am i would I'm a big proponent for that as well. I just feel like if there's more people that that can speak your language and understand where you're coming from and build that relationship. And and that's not to say that there aren't great men in the industry either, but it's just we're underrepresented and I'd like to see a few more faces that that look a little or more female in here.
06:37.45
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, i I think that's right. And I would say too that even female financial advisors can sometimes be under serving the female clients. I mean, the data even says that we yeah that just women in general, are all people have some micro bias and that micro bias comes through inside of the advisor practice as well. Um, so it's definitely not just that putting more women in is like the end all objective. The end objective is just to have more women investing for them to feel more in control of their money, for them to feel more solidified in the goals of their money. And one way, one pathway towards that is that we have more women in the industry too.
07:18.30
loriejones7
Yeah, I agree. I've, I've set in so many meetings where um they look at the primary financial driver and speak only to mostly him, you know, and, and a lot of times the women's voice is kind of left out of that conversation. And I think it's so important. You you are a 50-50 partner in this you know in this relationship. you You should and need to and want to be a 50-50 partner in your finances as well.
07:48.72
loriejones7
so So thank you for doing that. I appreciate it because ah I'm a big fan. So what, Shelby, is the best investment.
07:54.44
Shelby Nicholl
Yes.
07:59.00
loriejones7
You've had a really long career going through lots of different um you know, big companies and lots of different roles. What's the best investment that you've made in yourself? Is there something you can kind of look back on and say, Oh my gosh, I'm so glad I did that because it made a huge impact on who I am now.
08:17.12
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, I think there's been a few things um along the way, right? Because your career is so long. And that's something I tell a lot of young people is that your career really is a marathon. And there's going to be these different chapters, these different miles that you're running throughout it. And so early on in my career, I did my MBA, and I did it at Washington University here in St. Louis. And I will tell you, it was such a great program. Number one, the academics were fantastic. But also it was because I created this, I ended up, and I didn't just create it alone, but we created amongst this group of women, a really tight friendship circle.
08:56.32
Shelby Nicholl
And there's still like 11 of us, 12 of us together that we've done the babies and the baby showers and the weddings. And we've been there through all of life's ups and ups and downs at this point. But we can also always talk shop with each other. And so that MBA was definitely a wonderful investment, but especially also the investment in the women friendships that came through that. So that's number one. Another one that I did more recently was I hired an executive coach in 2022, I think it was. And that person really helped me evaluate the work that had made me the happiest and gave me some really tangible frameworks that I could use to kind of level up my production, kind of my productivity, if you will. And I could level up my happiness. I got really clear about what I did enjoy and what I didn't enjoy.
09:51.97
Shelby Nicholl
And that really has led me to some of the frameworks that I went back to as I thought about creating my new business. What did I want to be doing? What were the things that I really enjoyed? It gave me the frameworks for going back and evaluating that as I move forward and kind of struck out on my own.
10:09.00
loriejones7
It's really surprising that you mention that because it was surprising to me that as I sat down and wrote down the things that I love doing and the things that I didn't love doing um and then kind of arced my career in the path that of the things that I love doing because guess what? Those are usually the things you're best at too, right?
10:32.10
Shelby Nicholl
Yes.
10:32.20
loriejones7
The things the things you love, you put your passion into and you and you show up and you excel at those sorts of things. So i it was surprising. My list was actually surprising. I thought I was a paperwork person. I thought for sure that I i liked um the the numbers and the the the paperwork sort of stuff. Turns out I didn't. So it was surprising.
10:57.15
Shelby Nicholl
super Yeah, it was surprising. But what I wonder for you, because I know it changed for me over time, did it change for you over time? At what point? At one point did that make you happier than perhaps it does today?
11:10.62
loriejones7
That's a really good point, too, because you have these ebbs and flows in your career. And sometimes, you know especially early on in your career, you're just excited to be asked to do anything. you know That any way you can help, or at least in my trajectory, I was like, yeah, let me try that thing. and And I know that the advisors that handed me that work were like, oh, thank goodness, I don't want to do it at all.
11:36.62
Shelby Nicholl
Well, and you, for you, it gave you this great foundation that then now you've been able to take into the the next parts of your career. I think for me too, i I don't enjoy repetition work. I love new work kind of all the time. And so I think for me, like I would not have described myself as a paperwork person. I would have disc described myself as, oh, I'd like to create a process, but I don't want to run it.
12:07.94
loriejones7
ah I love that.
12:08.98
Shelby Nicholl
i think we can
12:09.27
loriejones7
I really liked that idea and that's it's interesting that your executive coach kind of took you down that path and provided that value. I've heard of a lot of reasons to have an executive coach on your team, um but but getting really clear on what you love, that's a really good reason.
12:28.47
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, I think it's a good reason. I think understanding your strengths and how you're showing up, being thoughtful about that. The other thing that she worked with me on too was just a real recognition about how what's happening in other portions of our lives might be showing up in our work life. So if I am, you know, trying to press really hard towards a promotion, and at the same time, there is a, family health scare, right, those two things are probably going to be a little incongruent. And so you have to sometimes make some of those choices. But being aware that sometimes you can take things to work, just like you can take work home is an important element to that that we worked through.
13:16.95
loriejones7
I like that. I like that idea. Shelby, what about the worst advice that someone gave you? Can you think of some really bad advice? And did you take the advice or did you ignore it? Did you learn anything from it?
13:29.43
Shelby Nicholl
Oh, gosh. You know, so for me, the worst advice I received came also from the person who I consider to be my worst boss ever, also. so um And in in in my case, it was in incredibly gendered advice.
13:40.88
loriejones7
ah
13:47.59
Shelby Nicholl
So he his direction to me was that rather than coming in and stating a position on an issue, I should restate everything as a question. So I found this to be really bad advice, right? Because if I were to state everything as a question, then I am not an authority in the room. I'm not an influencer in the room, right? I think from his standpoint, he wanted to soften.
14:19.18
Shelby Nicholl
soften me in some way and that to create a world where he was more comfortable with with my methods, I guess. Now, I was never a um kind of bash in the door type of leader. That's not really who I am. um So I don't know that I needed a lot of softening, but but I think that's what where where he was at. I like to think that his heart was in the right place. um But I'm not positive. And it definitely helped me to recognize some of that micro bias.
14:50.52
loriejones7
Mm
14:52.66
Shelby Nicholl
And that recognition really led me over time to the work that I do with women now.
14:56.60
loriejones7
hmm.
14:59.08
Shelby Nicholl
Right. I think until we're really kind of aware of some of the micro bias, we don't really know how to adjust ourselves to fit. We don't know how to operate within it. We don't know how to create resilience. so that we can have the stamina um every day as as we as we experience it, um even as we get older.
15:18.73
loriejones7
So how long did you last in that role after the advice?
15:23.87
Shelby Nicholl
Probably a little over a year. um I worked with that leader for about two years. um The last nine months was a discussion about should I leave or should I go, right?
15:30.31
loriejones7
me
15:36.06
Shelby Nicholl
All of that, because I had a lot of loyalty to the firm. um And I had a lot of loyalty to the work that I was doing, the team that I was leading, et cetera. And in the end, I ended up moving on to to LPL. LPL made me ah just an offer I couldn't have refused. and um And it did give me some separation obviously from that that leader that was so difficult for me.
16:01.06
loriejones7
So how did you how did you navigate? Because you know ah you you have this person that is giving you this advice and you're not taking it for a year. So how how did you navigate those situations?
16:15.52
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, it was it was tough. I mean, i I'm sure I took his advice sometimes, right? And to to get along and to operate well. I really just stayed focused on what does my team need? What does the project need? And do I internally feel like I'm doing a good job?
16:33.21
loriejones7
Mmhmm.
16:33.56
Shelby Nicholl
I felt at the time that the leader was someone that I didn't know that I could ever really satisfy and meet what he wanted. And I didn't agree with the advice either. So I really stayed true to myself through that situation and relied on sort of my own network internally to still be able to navigate the organization, achieve the objectives that my team and I needed to achieve.
17:03.93
loriejones7
Yeah, it's a it that you've described a really difficult situation because I've been in places like that where the advice didn't feel authentic. um It didn't feel like me. It didn't feel right for me to take but m but you know, they're the authoritarian and they're like telling you this is the way you need to do things and And um it's really difficult to navigate the aftermath of that. you know if you If you can leave the situation, then it's not hard. But if you have to stay in the situation and navigate not taking some of that advice, that's a really difficult place to be.
17:42.72
Shelby Nicholl
It is a really difficult place. You know, one thing I would say to the listeners is that often though that situation can change over time, you can either find another role inside, you can lean into the things that do fill your bucket and sort of just get through it a little bit, because your career is a marathon. It is not a sprint. And that chapter will change also. um In that case, I left before this happened, but that leader was eventually um kind of was eventually sort of pushed out. And, you know, it was probably a year and a half later, it would have changed at some point, could I have
18:23.29
Shelby Nicholl
I don't think I could have really operated for another year and a half in that environment. It wouldn't have been good for me as a person. So I made the right choice in leaving, but just for people who do feel a little bit stuck, like other things will change around in your circumstances as well.
18:39.86
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, I find that i I think that's really interesting. And for our listeners as well, I really do think they're going to run into that situation. um You know, ah ah several times throughout your career. I know that I have run into it a couple of different times and it's interesting. I like the idea of staying true to yourself and really thinking about, you know, Who am I? What do I want to bring to this role? Should I take this advice? I think that's an interesting question for me to ask all the time because it always brings up you know when you have an authoritarian or somebody who's in charge or a boss say, hey, this is what you should do. Even somebody you really respect. Hey, this is what you should do. I think it's important that you you really look at that advice and say, is that true? Should I really be listening to this advice or should I
19:31.17
loriejones7
not. And i I think that that's an important question to ask.
19:32.33
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah.
19:35.97
Shelby Nicholl
I think it is too. And I think it's one that we get to ask more readily today than we ever have. You know, if I think about the focus on authentic leadership and being your authentic self. It gives us an opportunity to say, that is good advice. There is some bit of truth in there that I can probably apply. But I need to do it in my own way. And it needs to feel like me. I will also say, too, that this leader also did give me one piece of really good advice over over the course of working with him. And his best advice, I always describe this as the best ah advice I received from my worst boss.
20:15.54
Shelby Nicholl
um But his best advice was to own your calendar. And that above all else, we have complete control over our calendar and our calendar is how things get done. So what's on the calendar gets done. It's kind of like the what measured gets done. What's on your calendar is what you're doing.
20:32.31
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah.
20:33.33
Shelby Nicholl
So.
20:34.08
loriejones7
and And I do run into those with my team as well, those questions about, you know, how do I get this or how do I do that? There are ah time management priorities and that's always something you have to work through. So you're right. That's good advice. What about um Shelby looking back over um your career and your path and your journey? Have you had, I'm not gonna say regrets exactly, but is there a situation that you look back on and you're like, oh my goodness, if I knew then what I know now, I would have handled that much differently.
21:08.18
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, there is one. i like I'm really glad we, you know, I had these questions of ahead of time, of course, and could think about this. But there's one situation at at Edward Jones that I wish had been different, because I really didn't realize the implications that it was it would have. So I was asked by my leader at the time to go get something done with marketing. Go to marketing and get this thing done, right? That was the direction that was given to me. And so I went to marketing, I met with the right people, and somehow in the meeting, i and I think this was probably a little bit of my home life coming into work. I think I was a little short with them. It was a little snippy. And they felt a bit too demanding.
21:53.06
Shelby Nicholl
which was not my m MO, and it was not my reputation, generally. um But I came off as demanding, which was probably because my leader told me to go in there and get this thing done, right? And the person that I was demanding, though, with, they shared that event, they shared that meeting summary over and over and over through the next couple of years, whenever there was a talent review. And so it really ended up the single meeting of five people had such a long tail for me.
22:24.58
Shelby Nicholl
And now I realize that what I was doing was going in and I was negotiating something, right?
22:24.37
loriejones7
Uh
22:30.46
Shelby Nicholl
I was asking for something from them. It wasn't a yes, no, it was a negotiation, but I didn't approach it like a negotiation and I didn't approach it in a collaborative way. I approached it like how we are taught to negotiate for things. We're taught to go in with the data, go in with the request, make the request, etc.
22:48.15
loriejones7
-huh.
22:50.43
Shelby Nicholl
Well, that can work sometimes, but the more effective way for women to negotiate is a collaborative approach. And as you know, I have a podcast called kick it open. There's an episode out there on negotiation with Catherine Valentine. So, you know, this has even come up in the last few weeks for me where I've been able to recognize and realize back that that was the number one thing I did not do correctly in that meeting is I didn't collaborate in the solution making. And had I gone in and said, hey, here's what's being asked of me. Where are you guys? How can we make this work together? How can we achieve this goal collectively? It might have been a very different outcome, both for the project at the time, but potentially, too, for my own career path.
23:38.25
loriejones7
Mm hmm. You said something interesting. You said it's the best way for women to negotiate and get things done. Do you think that collaborative approach is specifically women or do you think that that like all around it's a better approach to getting work done?
23:56.58
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, so that that statement comes out of the the work, the conversation I had with Catherine Valentine and a lot of the work that she's been doing, which she is a thought leader on women in the workplace, specifically around time management, negotiation, um and leadership. And she has studied, I think it was 13,000 pages of academic leaders ah academic literature on negotiation.
24:22.38
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
24:22.76
Shelby Nicholl
And so what she found is the collaborative approach to your point is appropriate for everyone to use, but it absolutely needs to be used by women and specifically when we are either coming off as or we are directly negotiating for ourselves.
24:39.97
loriejones7
hu That's so it. I actually find that it works really well in my position as well. We just had a situation where I had to go in and and get something accomplished on behalf of a client and it it was. i I was like, i know i'm you know I know I'm asking for a lot here. can Can you help me out? Can we get this accomplished? And I found that it does work really well. so
25:05.53
Shelby Nicholl
It does. And what you did there is you were negotiating on behalf of someone else. And the data says that women are excellent negotiators and especially when we are negotiating on someone else's behalf, which is what I love about the consulting I do with advisors now is I am often negotiating with firms or banks or whatever it might be on behalf of the advisors that I'm working with, the marketing teams, whomever it is, right? I'm always trying to to fill in the gap and get something done for the advisors that I'm that i'm working for. And because I'm negotiating on their behalf,
25:43.98
Shelby Nicholl
I mean, I don't feel any, like, pressure. It's not about me as a person if I don't get a yes, right? It's about them. And so I'm always saying, how can I get a yes? How can I get a yes for them?
25:56.61
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
25:57.00
Shelby Nicholl
And that's both fulfilling for me, but it's really effective.
25:59.96
loriejones7
Yeah, I had never thought of that before just that they if you could maybe if you could change your mindset to when you're negotiating on your own behalf to make it feel like you're negotiating and somebody else's behalf, it might be a little bit easier.
26:14.98
Shelby Nicholl
yeah Yeah, exactly. It's like, how can you kind of level that up? And sometimes when you're negotiating on your own behalf, you are negotiating for someone else. You might be really negotiating for the company that you're working for. You know, one of the ahas I had in that podcast with Catherine Valentine was She talked about negotiating for additional resources for your team. And I can remember sitting in the corporate ranks in the corporate chair and negotiating for resources and, you know, trying to justify why I needed more team members, right? And it isn't about just having the numbers on your team. It's because it's going to free you up to do something else and it's going to reduce your stress.
26:57.93
Shelby Nicholl
And the goal of the corporation should be your optimal performance at the lowest stress level. Like that's really the goal. So I think that reframe was so powerful for me when I heard it and hopefully it will be for for others.
27:12.45
loriejones7
Yeah, like a win-win. We're negotiating, but we both want the same thing. We both want this corporation or the company to succeed and do well and do better. and We want the employees and to be happy and fulfilled in what they're doing. So what about if you could go back and talk to your 20 year old self, you're young, just at the beginning of your career, you can choose 21 or 22 or 23.
27:28.96
Shelby Nicholl
That's right.
27:41.14
loriejones7
But what would you tell her?
27:45.28
Shelby Nicholl
I think I would tell her two things, and I probably have more than this, but two things that come off off the top. You're better than you think you are. And your viewpoint is unique. I think I struggled personally for a lot of years not recognizing my own innate strengths because I honestly thought that everyone had them. So one of my strengths is being able to take multiple pieces of data, multiple little comments all around and stringing them together in a way that is powerful and unique and valuable for whatever it is that I'm working on. It might be I hear a little snippet over here and a little snippet over here and now I'm gonna string those two things together and I'm gonna go negotiate a deal for an advisor in a different way.
28:39.29
Shelby Nicholl
because of those two data points that were from two very different people, but I'll string them together mentally. When I was earlier in my career, it might have been looking at five pieces of data and seeing a story in that data that other people just didn't see because they didn't put the data together in quite the same way I did.
28:57.67
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
28:59.27
Shelby Nicholl
I didn't realize that that was such that my viewpoint was so unique. So I think everyone has a unique viewpoint, right? I have a unique viewpoint on things like longevity because my great grandmother lived to be nearly 103 and her grandmother was and Like 99 lived from like 1850 to 1950. I mean, talk about seeing a lot of change in the world in that time period, right? But those personal stories, those things that we bring is just part of us. They give us this unique viewpoint. And it is unique and it should be ah regarded as such and it should be honored in that way because it's unique.
29:39.27
loriejones7
And you should be proud of it, right? You should be able to say, hey, I do something here that's kind of cool.
29:46.53
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah.
29:46.56
loriejones7
um let's let's Let's let me do it really, really well.
29:52.47
Shelby Nicholl
Yes, yes. And then the you're better than you think you are. you know Some of that is just the tropes and the things that some of us grow up with. you know I grew up in a very small rural America town and it was a fairly, you know so sort of everyone was pretty similar sort of culture. And there was a lot of conversation just the way that we were raised about not having a big ego and being humble. Well, for somebody who already maybe had a little bit lower self worth to then not be told to have an ego, etc, it can really sort of dampen how good you think you might be.
30:21.42
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
30:34.01
Shelby Nicholl
And so over time, you have to kind of realize, Oh, okay, I am I am good, I can do this. I just have to work hard and put in the effort. But I'm going to get there. Oh, and my viewpoint is unique. Wow, this is This is mind blowing and now I can go figure out what really makes me happy and do that thing really well.
30:55.91
loriejones7
yeah Yeah, I like that idea. It strikes me or it comes back around to um you know as we're talking about women and specifically like clients. you know as they A lot of times they have the impression that they don't they don't they can't learn about finance or they don't know how many works or they're just not smart enough to do this. And that impression has been reinforced over and over by people talking over them or you know not giving them their due. And I just think that that you're better than you think you are. you're so you You are smart, you are kind, you are beautiful, you can do this. you know i love that I love that point of view. just If you need someone to tell you that you're cool, you just talk to me. I'll tell you that you're cool all day long.
31:43.76
Shelby Nicholl
Well, and I'm sure your clients love that about you, right? They do. Everybody needs that little bit of that buildup. And I love it that you can do that, whether it's for me or someone else. I love that.
31:55.44
loriejones7
ah So what about when you first started out on your journey or and maybe during your journey what scared you the most and does it still scare you today or did you figure out a way to to deal with it?
32:10.44
Shelby Nicholl
Oh, gosh, I think what scared me the most was really general like not being good enough.
32:15.75
loriejones7
you
32:16.24
Shelby Nicholl
That's what scared me the most that I would be somehow found out. And I still struggle with this. I mean, you know, you and I chatted about doing this podcast episode and then I went blank for a few weeks, right? So I still struggle with it. And so many of us do. but But when you found yourself struggling with it, you just get back up on the horse and you keep going, right? You fall off, you get back on. It's all the old, all the old sayings. But that idea of not being good enough was something that really um I struggled with a lot, probably until I was in my mid 40s. I'm getting better, definitively better than it used to be. Still a struggle at times.
32:55.69
loriejones7
So how do you combat that? Like, um, yeah, you can get back on the horse. You can lift yourself in the mirror and say what, you know, positive affirmations or something like that. But do you have any great tricks for. for just building yourself up and understanding because you are, you guys are all good enough. You are all doing amazing things.
33:15.28
Shelby Nicholl
Yes.
33:17.48
loriejones7
All of the women that I've interviewed are just adding so much to this world. And to a person, every single one of them is like, oh, I'm not sure I'm doing enough.
33:27.58
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, that's interesting. So really, every person is feeling that way. i I don't know why we do, right?
33:31.42
loriejones7
ah
33:34.50
Shelby Nicholl
We need to go the opposite way. So one one trick I do have is I use an app called Think Up. And this was something my executive coach had told me about a couple of years ago. It's a free app. You can do three essentially affirmations, like you mentioned, uh, three free ones before you have to pay for the app. So don't buy the membership, just do the page or the freebie three. What you do is you record them and then you play it back to yourself, but it's recorded in your own voice. And there's something I think much more powerful about hearing yourself say things to yourself.
34:13.66
loriejones7
Mmhmm.
34:14.14
Shelby Nicholl
It is that little voice in our head is now talking actually to us in the app. And we're playing that back and listening to those a few times a day. I think another thing that I recently have started and I'm trying to do more of is what's called kind of scripting or it's kind of a ah technique again to envision the future and to then actively be working towards it. um I think about things like um some of the affirmation and manifestation science is that really what you're doing with those is you're tricking your brain into believing that.
34:53.30
Shelby Nicholl
now, ah believing that that is already real.
34:56.42
loriejones7
Mm
34:56.81
Shelby Nicholl
And so by tricking your brain into believing it already is real, then it sort of becomes real in your brain, and then it somehow becomes real in your life. It's very tricky to me, I think it's a little bit woo woo, but it actually has worked really well too, because it keeps you also very focused on your goals.
35:08.72
loriejones7
hmm. Hmm.
35:16.40
Shelby Nicholl
So if I've set a goal, if I'm now writing about it, if I'm listening to the affirmation about it, I am very focused on achieving that item and I think that is why it's effective for me.
35:27.94
loriejones7
I like that idea. You're thinking about it. You're hearing about it. You're, um, you know, you've set your goal. You've got a whiteboard. One of my other guests says, you know, put a whiteboard with your vision board on there. Um, and so, so if you're constantly working in that direction or, or thinking about that thing, then, then you can make real change, real difference. I like that.
35:54.30
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, I think it's, you know, if you can dream it, you can achieve it. It's a phrase I definitely live by.
36:03.25
loriejones7
What about any unique challenges um because you were a woman? Anything there?
36:11.34
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, I mean, I think we all have struggled with the balance of career and life at times. You know, you can't go to a women's event and not talk about work life balance or not talk about life hacks in order to free up time for both work and for family. um So everyone has has that universal um kind of challenge. I think, you know, you can find a great partner. Hopefully you have found a great partner and have a real partner in your partnership. I think that's really key. I think believing that your career is a marathon and not a sprint can help with that as well, because there's going to be times in life when
36:52.72
Shelby Nicholl
your career takes first place and there will be times in life when home life and family stuff takes first place. And that's an ebb and a flow, maybe on a daily or weekly basis, depending on what is going on for you. i
37:08.57
loriejones7
I love that food service that came out where they send you dinners, talking of life hacks and things that help. like and Just someone send me dinner so I can feed the family and do a full 10, 12 hours worth of work.
37:16.41
Shelby Nicholl
Yes.
37:25.40
Shelby Nicholl
Absolutely. And I think too, like, you know, just meal plan it for me, I think there's all those memes about how adult, the hardest part of adulting is picking out what's for dinner every night. I completely relate to that and don't have to pick out dinner every night, thankfully, because I have a really good partner in life. But you know, once we have the plan, we can execute upon it. So um make the meal plan, etc. The last thing I'd say too about struggling with, you know, kind of as a woman in the workplace is we are, we are you know, you and I are both working in wealth management. It is a male dominated industry. I mean, the the data is really clear. It's not a
38:06.24
Shelby Nicholl
It's not it's that's just the fact of it. So sometimes we do have to be really aware of the micro bias that exists and we have to work to build up our own personal resilience in that as well. um Some of it is our resilience. Some of it is our toolkit. You know, if you see if you're in a group meeting as an example inside of your office or in corporate land and you see that it's always a woman who's taking notes, you know, try to assign that to someone else if you're in a position to be able to, or talk to another one of the men leaders and ask if they can maybe take the notes, etc. Just even small actions like that can go a long way. ah Make sure that the social committee is evenly gendered. It's not just the women that are planning the outings and things like that.
38:59.92
Shelby Nicholl
And when you're thinking about career opportunity, don't assume that, you know, if a woman is pregnant, for example, or has small kids that she doesn't also want the promotion. um You know, there's a lot of women, they totally lean into their careers at those points also. um Or maybe that woman's path is to have a stay-at-home husband instead. And so we don't know what those dynamics are in the in the home world for that person. So just don't assume anything about kind of anyone.
39:36.92
loriejones7
So where's the list of micro biases that you can go down and look at and see yeah which ones you're you're doing and how to combat that?
39:47.26
Shelby Nicholl
Oh, I will say it's a little scary when you start to do the research on it, right? Because when you start researching micro bias, and you become aware of it, you do start to see it everywhere. And that can be something that is really hard for us emotionally to to deal with.
39:58.21
loriejones7
who
40:03.87
Shelby Nicholl
um It's also something to that the the data would say that white women have a harder time with this than women of color, because we haven't been taught all the same resiliency skills that an African American woman kind of grew up knowing. um And I know that was true for me, and and I've written about it a little bit in my blog too, that that that was true for me. So just if you go out and research it, do the research, become aware, but just know you might also have this emotional depression that comes with it.
40:37.18
Shelby Nicholl
I think it was ah Gloria Steinem said, um the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. You know, it's such a good line.
40:46.16
loriejones7
Oh, I love that. um
40:48.42
Shelby Nicholl
And it's really true when it comes to micro bias. Like once you start looking at it, you will see it everywhere. So just be aware of that. But then be ready to figure out what your toolkit is going to be. By taking control of it by figuring out your toolkit, ah you'll be you'll have that resilience already built.
41:04.76
loriejones7
And change a little bit of change at the micro level at my little office with my little team. done, you know, replicated across the world makes a difference. It makes a difference.
41:18.30
Shelby Nicholl
Absolutely. And you are changing at that point in your world and we can only control what we can control.
41:29.46
loriejones7
What, Shelby, is the thing that you're the most proud of?
41:35.67
Shelby Nicholl
I mean, I am, I am most proud of
41:43.65
Shelby Nicholl
I'm most proud of a couple of things. One is and the the the answer that I had written down and prepared was around the the work of for women in wealth management and how I bring women in wealth management together, both inside a Muriel network, but also I mentioned that the St. Louis area. We have founded a group called Women Leaders in Finance that is an in-person kind of quarterly gathering of women in the wealth management industry. That is something that I pulled together along with four others um to really spread across the ecosystem in St.
42:18.65
Shelby Nicholl
Louis, we wanted to create connectivity ah for women across that St. Louis ecosystem, across the firms.
42:24.41
loriejones7
hu
42:26.13
Shelby Nicholl
So I'm really proud of that. And then as I reflect too on our conversation here today, Lori, I'm really proud of the fact that of the balance that I have achieved between work and life. um I have a really lovely family. I enjoy them. I love my husband. We have a great partnership. My kids are challenging at times like everyone's are and great ah like everyone's are.
42:47.75
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
42:51.85
Shelby Nicholl
And I'm really happy that I've been able to balance, you know, as ah a successful career, a career I couldn't have dreamt of as a child with also having a pretty great home life too.
43:04.75
loriejones7
Yeah, that is truly an accomplishment. I mean, I i i still struggle with ah finding that balance. And I know that so many women that do as well. And so I think that um maybe an entire blog post on the tips you use for finding balance and and how to hack your brain into actually doing it. so But i I love that that's one of your proudest accomplishments because it's huge and I'm not sure that the people in general realize how huge it is to be able to have that that balance in life.
43:43.03
Shelby Nicholl
Yeah, I'm really happy about it and I will say that my biggest hack on that is to drop the guilt, right, and decide what's really important to you. I tell people this all the time that I don't do PTA and I don't feel bad about it. I also don't go to every single sports practice, right, or music practice. I go to the performances And I have missed a couple of those, um but I have cleared that with my kids ahead of time and set the expectations.
44:14.75
Shelby Nicholl
And we've had a joint discussion about why. And then I don't feel guilty about it. I might think of them that night and go, oh, there I wonder how it's going.
44:20.38
loriejones7
isn
44:24.79
Shelby Nicholl
That's fine, but I'm not languishing in the guilt of it. i don't I don't feel bad about it. And so I picked what's really important to me. I do field day every every year at my kids' school. I love that. So you know you pick what's important and drop the rest.
44:41.39
loriejones7
I like that idea i and I like that part too, just that I found that you know through these interviews that there are there's a lot of mom guilt out there and that those that do tend to have the best balance have kind of come to terms with what they can and cannot bring and that they do understand that life is sometimes a balance, that sometimes your work is going to take precedence and sometimes your home is going to take precedence and you and you kind of work that balance out and it's not it can't always be one or the other.
45:16.58
loriejones7
you know, or else you're out of balance. So so that's good advice. I'm gonna write it down. Any advice for a young lady who's just starting down this path you're very successful at, you've had ah a long, and you know, different career in financial services, and and I personally am interested in this question because I'd love to have more women join our ranks. What advice would you give for a young lady just at the beginning of her path?
45:45.93
Shelby Nicholl
ah Well, first of all, consider joining the wealth management industry and becoming an advisor would be absolutely something I would say. We need more women in this industry, and it's such a great career path for women. I'm not personally a ah financial advisor, but you know had I ah to do it over again, perhaps I would be. I think it's just such a great career path. um The second thing I would say is find your tribe of women that you can talk shop with. Um, the data is really clear that we will make more money. We also will have more fun when we have a tight knit circle of women friends who we can share information with about work. And they are the ones that you can go to and say, what should I wear to this event? And how can I?
46:31.80
Shelby Nicholl
How can I negotiate my long-term incentives and my stock options? And how can I ah show up a little bit differently? I feel like they're viewing me as a manager and not as a leader. How can I show up differently? What advice do you have? Those are the kinds of conversations that you can have with that group of women friends.
46:46.70
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
46:51.83
Shelby Nicholl
And hopefully, you'll have that group for the course of your life like I have. But I think that group is the the key the key piece to success.
47:01.95
loriejones7
And if you ah if you don't go get your MBA, where do you find that group? Any suggestions?
47:06.93
Shelby Nicholl
yeah Yeah, it's a great, great point. um You definitely find it through your workplaces and you take the lead on scheduling those activities. Get a group of women together for lunch on a regular basis. Get a group together for happy hour. Pick people across your firm or across your industry or your city that are similar but maybe have different, slightly different work or different views so that you get a little bit of a ah diversity of thought in there as well.
47:36.81
loriejones7
I like that idea and and it's a good reminder too, I do. um I've got a team member here that is pretty introverted like me and and we encourage each other to to make friends. so
47:52.08
Shelby Nicholl
Yes, you know, scheduling the event means that you're kind of like taking lead of it, but as an introvert, it's really comfortable for you to be in that scheduling world because you're not, you're not having to like plan the party, you're just pulling the piece together and then everybody shows up and it's easy, right?
47:52.71
loriejones7
like
48:10.84
loriejones7
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for spending some time with us today, Shelby, and just lending some advice and your experience. I really appreciate it.
48:21.68
Shelby Nicholl
Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.