In this inspiring conversation, host Lorie Jones sits down with Lori Frasier, founder and CEO of BrightPath Workforce Strategies, to explore the challenges, breakthroughs, and lessons that have shaped her extraordinary career in corporate America—from her unconventional start from a clerical role at American Express to discovering her calling in HR and leadership, steadily rising to executive roles at Western Union and KeyBank, to founding her business.
You’ll hear her discuss the power of personal investment, vulnerability in leaders, the importance of professional networks, and the realities of being a woman at the executive table in male-dominated industries, revealing how to navigate the workplace “boys’ club.”
Tune in for Lori’s raw, relatable insights packed with actionable wisdom for young women carving fearless paths. She reminds us that while good intentions matter, it’s the impact we have on others that truly defines our legacy!
Show Highlights:
- The value of testing the corporate waters early with curiosity. [04:58]
- Assimilation and rule-learning at work as a path to influence. [09:16]
- Why coaching matters from early career to the C-suite. [11:06]
- How to find women’s professional groups and mentor circles. [14:51]
- The value of vulnerable leadership over command and control. [18:16]
- What can be done to make work cultures work for everyone? [25:14]
- Are great leaders born or made with ongoing improvement? [28:21]
- Learning to speak less and listen more as a leader. [32:32]
- The power of reframing impostor syndrome as humility. [34:04]
- How deliberate mutual inclusion can break ingrained gender barriers at work. [38:06]
- Key “intent vs. impact” advice for young career women. [45:32]
Connect with Lori through LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lori-frasier/ and her email lori@brightpathecc.com
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
Transcription errors on the first 8 minutes of the podcast, so those are not shown
00:00.37
Lorie Jones
Lori, if you could look back on your journey and you think of like the best investment that you made in yourself, other than apparently going into finance, which I personally think is a great investment, say if if that wasn’t it, what would be um the the thing that you could look at and say, oh my gosh, I’m so glad I did that. I just wouldn’t be where I’m at today without that.
00:25.29
Lori Frasier
Oh, so um can I pick two um Okay, so I was, again, i was just so blessed to grow up at a ah company like American Express, which then became First Data Corp, and then became Western Union all while I was there.
00:40.92
Lori Frasier
um And they were investing in leadership development for high potentials pretty young. I had my first executive coach when I was probably 30 years old.
00:53.82
Lori Frasier
um and he was a PhD level. um And, ah you know, they did this big assessment on me. Like I look back at that and the self-awareness that that experience gave me at an age that I think a lot of people are still trying to figure it out. And they’re still very focused on how other people view them versus being self-aware and having a sense of, of,
01:21.81
Lori Frasier
you know, what makes you tick and how you impact others, maybe.
01:24.03
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
01:26.17
Lori Frasier
um That was definitely one. And I’ve been very, again, very blessed throughout my career that I’ve had companies invest in coaches for me. And of course, right now, having gone through the coaching certification and being a coach myself, I still maintain a coach for myself that I invest in um because I found it to be so valuable.
01:46.42
Lori Frasier
I think the other um big piece was that i was able to participate in an executive women’s, what we were were called a ah mentor circle. And these were women outside of my company. So I think I was in this circle with about 10 women, probably in my mid to late 30s at this point.
02:06.41
Lori Frasier
um And um it was it was just such a great opportunity because it’s a safe place. You know, you can talk to you can’t talk to a lot of people when you’re an executive woman um within your company. A lot of times you’re the only, right?
02:21.79
Lori Frasier
um And so it was just such a great experience to have that that place of not just a safe place, but a place of wisdom and a place where we were you we were willing to kind of challenge each other.
02:35.29
Lori Frasier
and that was the first experience I had like that. I will say that I’ve continued to invest in myself in that way. I’m currently part um of um a potential professional development group, which is made up of um executive level women from across a variety of types of industries, not-for-profit, self-employed, corporate, you know, so um that that maintains, that’s probably something that I think is still one of the biggest development opportunities that I get. And thankfully I’m still getting.
03:06.52
Lori Frasier
ah We meet once a month and and those conversations leave me moved every time. i learned something deep every time.
03:14.91
Lorie Jones
I think that’s so interesting, Laurie, because I saw an article just recently about how lonely it is at the top for C-suite executive women um still today. Like the article came out last week and I was shocked because because it it it does. You do feel that as as kind of an upper level management. I can see how you would feel like there’s no one else going through what I’m going through. There are a lot of other people going through it.
03:44.76
Lorie Jones
But all of them don’t look like you, don’t act like you. don’t it so So finding that group of women that that is not only supportive, but actually useful and helpful in the things that you specifically are dealing with.
04:00.68
Lori Frasier
Yeah, it has been a it’s been a commitment I’ve, I’ve made, again, for the last 20 plus years in my career, um is to have that kind of a safe group.
04:12.48
Lori Frasier
um And um yeah, so it is, it’s,
04:14.82
Lorie Jones
where Where do you find it? Because um it’s the you know b there’s ah typically you are the only woman in the room or maybe one of two and and kind of not at that level. So where do you where did you find your group?
04:29.48
Lori Frasier
Yeah. So originally it was actually through Colorado Thought Leaders Forum, the one that I’m in now. um it was and um And then now that group is called Civico and they have these professional development groups called
04:35.24
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
04:44.81
Lori Frasier
pdgs professional development groups. And that’s, um, that’s how I found this group. Um, since then we’ve actually kind of forged off on our own, um, to keep it going. Um, but, um, but I know that, uh, Civico for Coloradans, Civico still offers these professional development groups.
05:03.12
Lori Frasier
I think, you know, some more, um, opportunities that have become available because of the virtual opportunities that we have now is I’ve heard good things about chief.
05:13.76
Lori Frasier
Um,
05:13.89
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
05:14.51
Lori Frasier
for executive women. And it does have a, you know, I think for some people, a pretty pricey um investment. However, it’s like anything else you are going to get out of it, what you put into it.
05:28.10
Lori Frasier
And I have heard people talk about the investment point and then say, well, you know, I don’t have time to go to this or I don’t have time to go to that. and I’m like, well, we make time for what is really important to us.
05:39.80
Lori Frasier
Right. At the end of the day, um You know, I tell people this, I just had a networking meeting with a young professional ah last week, and I said to this person, when I left my first corporation, i had been there 16 years.
05:54.31
Lori Frasier
I was 30 years old, let’s say, ah early 30s. um And I left there and realized that my entire network was either at that company still or used to be at that company.
06:09.48
Lori Frasier
Because what we tend to do is we get very insular and our business is like pull us to be insular, right?
06:16.02
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
06:16.76
Lori Frasier
Pull us to be internally focused. So I made a commitment to myself then, even as a mom with young kids, I said, I will never be in this situation again. I will never sacrifice my network for my company.
06:32.77
Lori Frasier
um And so, yes, that meant that I got babysitters. That meant that my husband had to step up maybe more than some others. It meant that I had to feel guilty, right? Because I was like, oh, you know, not spending all this time. But it that network today is still paying off in huge ways on a daily basis. So I think you have to work at it. So with any of these things, Chief or Civico or, you know, whatever you can find,
07:01.55
Lori Frasier
You’re not going to get anything out of it if you won’t sacrifice.
07:05.73
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. I really think that it’s so valuable too.
07:07.74
Lori Frasier
but
07:09.56
Lorie Jones
It’s such valuable information. and And I hear where you’re coming at from the networking aspect. Like um I spent a lot of years just doing the things and getting really, really good at it. but But I was in this little teeny tiny place where no one you know no one knew me. No one knew I was doing great things. And that and that idea of networking And getting out there and kind of growing, besides the fact that it sort of fills your bucket, it also really, really lends to your life and your experience.
07:42.00
Lori Frasier
yeah
07:42.47
Lorie Jones
I just don’t think you can have as full of an experience if you don’t have people around you that help you to grow and be better and show you examples of ah what what you could be.
07:55.30
Lori Frasier
Absolutely. Totally agree.
07:58.53
Lorie Jones
What about some bad advice, Lori? Did you ever get some really bad advice and did you take it? did you not take it?
08:05.19
Lori Frasier
um The worst advice, I think, and this stands out for me, um Because I remember hearing it and just sitting with it and then deciding not to take it. But it was and I know you’ve probably heard this because this was a very common thing starting in the 80s and in the 90s.
08:21.32
Lori Frasier
um Senior leaders were telling managers and people leaders never get too close to your team because you might have to fire them someday.
08:32.56
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
08:34.66
Lori Frasier
And the profound wrongness of that um is is just, it just is astonishing to me that so many people believe that. And I, unfortunately, even in the last five years, I’ve worked with people that I can tell still believe that.
08:50.46
Lorie Jones
ah
08:51.34
Lori Frasier
um And um it’s just completely opposite of what we actually know about effective leadership. It’s completely opposite about what we know about getting the most productivity out of your team.
09:04.47
Lori Frasier
Because unless your team, as individuals and collectively, feel a true sense of
09:15.70
Lori Frasier
well-being, a true sense of being cared about, a true sense of connectedness, you will never get what you really could get out of that team from a performance standpoint. And to do that, you have to be vulnerable. I mean, this was, yeah you know, that that advice was years before the Brene Brown revolution, right?
09:33.23
Lori Frasier
That sort of then validated for us that being vulnerable and having real relationships was actually okay. um But in the 80s and 90s, you know, that was the greed is good era era, and it wasn’t about building relationships.
09:50.34
Lorie Jones
that’s I think that’s really… really insightful too, to kind of look at that because I have heard that advice a lot of times and i didn’t believe it either.
10:01.73
Lorie Jones
And, and develop those relationships. They say, um you won’t do anything for a company, but you do everything for a person. so you, you, you know, I still have really strong relationships from people that, that we’ve forged those, those growth, um,
10:10.70
Lori Frasier
Yep. so
10:20.56
Lorie Jones
and and friendships during you know times of working together to get something done. So, but how did you how did you how did you know that was bad advice?
10:31.65
Lorie Jones
How did you not pay attention to it when you’re so young?
10:36.21
Lori Frasier
Yeah, I think the reason that knew it was bad advice is that this goes to what you just said, Lori. I knew my relationship with my first boss at American Express.
10:51.16
Lori Frasier
I would have done anything for her. She that kept taking chances on me. You know, I literally, she hired me and I had to type up these cards and on a typewriter.
11:03.35
Lori Frasier
I was the worst. And so I would have to redo them again and again because they were three ply. Remember the old like zero, you know, they had the little black thing in between them.
11:10.88
Lorie Jones
I love
11:13.33
Lori Frasier
And, but she kept, she just had faith in me and I had so much trust for her. I would have walked through walls for her.
11:22.34
Lorie Jones
that.
11:22.63
Lori Frasier
And so when they told, when I heard this, I was like, okay, I can understand why like, Conceptually, you might think that’s true, but my lived experience tells me that is not true.
11:38.73
Lorie Jones
i love that And, and, and then to be able to pass that down to those that you are training and mentoring and teaching now puts so much more out into the universe of, of good high quality managers that kind of help grow their teams from, from this place of, um, I, I always like to say, I’m, I’m kind of a professional mom by profession. i want to, I want to grow my little chicks and help them do well and go out into this world. and that, and that, that tends to build these relationships and just the goodness out in the world. it
12:17.86
Lorie Jones
It just grows and grows into this almost movement sort of thing. Laurie, I love that for you. And I love that for the rest of us too, who get to and work around those people that you kind of grow and train and love into existence.
12:34.49
Lori Frasier
Agree. One of the things that I say a lot, Laurie, um is that when I first got, I got my first HR in 1992. um And again, i was working with a pretty progressive company from an HR standpoint, American Express.
12:50.39
Lori Frasier
So we were talking about leadership theories, I guess. And hey, if we do this, we believe that we’re going to get better performance. And that’s You know, it it made sense. But to be honest, I don’t think that a lot of leaders really bought into it um because in because it was still in theory. Right. It was these things were anecdotally researched and put forth. Right.
13:17.88
Lori Frasier
um And now, 30 years later, we have the data that proves actually these are the right things to do to get the most productivity,
13:28.95
Lori Frasier
the most for the best performance out of your teams. um And you know I think the biggest opportunity for us in today’s corporate life, like you said, you know a lot of people are like, not so much liking this.
13:41.75
Lori Frasier
And I think a lot of it is because so many people just modeled what they learned from the people above them, not what they were being taught in the leadership development classes, right? Because at the end of the day, you know companies spend billions on these leadership development.
14:00.23
Lori Frasier
But then when people come back to work and they don’t change anything, the way you, what you actually learn is what you see. It’s what you do. It’s not what you read. It’s not what you hear in a presentation. And so i think we still have a long way to go. the good news is now we have some data. I think that for those leaders who are a little bit more ah quantitative or analytical in their approach and want to know why They would change a behavior, change a habit.
14:30.41
Lori Frasier
um We now have some of that information in black and white in a way that we didn’t 30 years ago.
14:36.93
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s so true. And, and I love that, that thought too, like there’s, um, They don’t give you oh there, there is chances in bigger companies to go to leadership training and leadership development and stuff like that. But a lot of times you’re just promoted because you’re doing a good job at what you do and they don’t tell you how to lead. They don’t tell you to manage.
15:05.08
Lorie Jones
They just put you in there and they’re like, well, she was good at what she did before. So she’ll certainly be good at this now. And you’re like, ah,
15:11.78
Lori Frasier
yes
15:12.52
Lorie Jones
So I think it’s so important that that there are people like you that can go ahead and and train us on how to how to lead and how to grow a team and how to be a manager in a way that is that feels good to your team and to the world as a whole.
15:12.64
Lori Frasier
yes
15:34.62
Lori Frasier
Yeah, thank you. i hope i I hope so. I mean, i you know my whole career, my sort of my purpose, if you will, was I want to make work work for everyone, right? Like, how do we make a workplace that works for everyone?
15:49.74
Lori Frasier
um And what I mean by that is not the building you go to or anything like that. It’s the culture. Like, how do we make work cultures work? And I think we are at a very critical time right now in the, um just in the world, right? I mean, there is change coming at us at a pace and a volume that we’ve never seen before. It’s not gonna stop.
16:12.06
Lori Frasier
um We have a whole new ah home covenant that I think was built during COVID between workers in the workplace around, hey,
16:23.68
Lori Frasier
there’s I’m a whole person. you know i You need to think of me as a whole person and my wellbeing needs to matter. um And at the same time that you know that that is changing, we have AI coming on board. we have these generations that are coming in with completely different expectations.
16:43.09
Lori Frasier
And we now have sadly couple decades of, to your point, not a lot of leadership training. And so a lot of leaders just, again, by default, you learn from the way the person you report to leads.
16:57.77
Lori Frasier
And um well, again, in theory, I think people understand that there are some really good leadership theories out there. Until the habits are changed in your leadership team, starting with your executive leadership team, until those habits change, you’re not really going to see culture change.
17:17.16
Lori Frasier
um and um And I think workers are expecting a lot more of businesses. And I think we’re seeing a higher level of turnover with younger workers. And everybody’s like, you know why, why, why? And it’s like, well, it’s pretty obvious to me why.
17:32.74
Lori Frasier
right um and and again, now we have the data. and if we But we need to think about making investments differently as organizations. um And not just with our, you know, our, our dollars and our, ah but the time for people to get some, some good leadership development, but even more so that self-awareness and that ability, that desire for senior leaders to change the way they do things day to day.
18:04.46
Lori Frasier
um
18:06.59
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
18:06.81
Lori Frasier
That’s what’s really going to change this the workforce, that’s good there are the the world of work, which is something that I think we all recognize needs to happen.
18:14.54
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. um i love, I really love how you put that there. So I’m not going to add anything to it because I think it’s just beautiful. I think the way you said that was just perfect.
18:27.70
Lorie Jones
What about looking back on your career and your journey? Is there anything that you’re like, oh my gosh, I wish I could go back and do that again. And knowing what I know now, i would do it totally differently.
18:39.14
Lorie Jones
Just kind of, it’s not so much regrets or anything like that, but more along the lines of like, like that constant improvement, that continual change. Is there a situation you can think of that you wish you you could do again?
18:53.30
Lori Frasier
I, there are there is, um you know, uh, because I also was somebody who was raised in a command and control, um, you know, culture, um, that was the world I grew up in, in the eighties, nineties and, and two thousands.
19:08.89
Lori Frasier
And, um, so even I can fall into those same traps. Right. And so I had worked for two companies for most of my career and you don’t you know you’ve you’ve kind of proved yourself, right? And so you’re not um you’re not trying to, I don’t know. I guess when I when i left my second company that I’d been with for many, many years, um you know i I feel like I went into these more recent roles still trying to prove something, even though I know the Brene Brown stuff and I know the vulnerability stuff.
19:41.80
Lori Frasier
um I think I could have gone in more vulnerable to start with, more intentionally curious to start with versus, um you know, versus really kind of thinking, oh, well, you know, I’ve seen it done this way and and maybe that would work here.
19:58.35
Lori Frasier
But really just being more curious and and being more open and vulnerable about knowing what I didn’t know.
20:07.68
Lorie Jones
Yeah, i find that so important and insightful. And I, you know, as I look, ah you know, to things that I want to do in the future, and I was like, oh, I would go in.
20:18.63
Lorie Jones
i was, you know, Monday morning quarterback, everything. That’s what you call it. But i i I would go in and i would I would step back and I would watch what they were doing and I would make you know suggestions or maybe ask a lot of questions.
20:32.38
Lorie Jones
But it’s so interesting that you say that, yeah, like you knew all the things that you you should have, would have, could have maybe made it a little easier transition. And you still did the things that were like, oh, I’ve seen this before.
20:46.22
Lorie Jones
know what you should do.
20:47.77
Lori Frasier
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I, um yeah, I think that’s been, um you know, but but I think what that proves, you know, because I’m, you know, I’m 58 years old, we never stop learning.
21:01.73
Lori Frasier
um And as long as we’re able to look at ourselves, we, we never will stop and we’ll never stop adding value, right?
21:14.01
Lori Frasier
i think when I see leaders start to kind of level out in terms of the value they’re really adding to their teams, it’s when they kind of are at that point of they think they know everything. They don’t know what they don’t know anymore, even though the world is changing. Like that’s what amazes me is when I talk to leaders today who are like, oh, you know, kind of act like they have it all figured out.
21:39.07
Lori Frasier
And I’m like, just the fact that you’re acting that way tells me that you don’t have it all figured out. you know It’s almost like the the ones that are more open and say, wow, things really are changing. What does that mean for us?
21:53.12
Lori Frasier
um Those are the leaders that I think will be you know leading the companies that have the real productivity and high performance that we’d all be seeking.
22:04.59
Lorie Jones
I like that. I like that idea. And i I just finished a leadership course at Leadership Douglas County. and And that’s something that I found too, is like as leaders, ah it’s it so pays to be curious. I love working and being around people that are that that are curious, that just want to know, they want to know everything in your head. Could you just give me all your information? Because I am so interested in what you’re doing.
22:34.06
Lorie Jones
it It makes for um a rich and rewarding life, I think, right?
22:39.27
Lori Frasier
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. um There, I mean, Yeah, any philosopher that you read will talk about the fact that, you know, that is the key. um The key to keeping your brain agile is to recognize that there’s so much that we don’t know and to be curious and to be genuinely curious about how other people do things and just how other people see things. Perspective is huge.
23:09.02
Lorie Jones
What about if you could go back and talk to yourself at when you were typing up those, you know, triplicate note cards in 2021, just right at the beginning of your career? Is there some specific advice you’d give to you or something you’d tell yourself?
23:25.83
Lori Frasier
ah Clearly, I’m still learning this, but listen more. Right. Listen more. um Even though i’m I’m, you know, I’m extroverted, I’m ah high ideas, again, see connections. So I love to blurt things out. It’s my personality.
23:44.05
Lori Frasier
um i wish I would have kept my mouth closed more and actually listened and waited, especially once I got into leadership roles. Here’s something I wish I would have done differently. Once I got into leadership roles, especially, i wish I would have waited to be the last person in the room to speak, not the first, um because I think I would have heard a lot more ideas had I done that.
24:11.14
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that, I agree with that. I, you know, as I, as I was running these leadership meetings for my team, I noticed that if I would just shut up, close my mouth and kind of listen to what they had to say, um a lot of times it also helps you be Be a little bit more creative yourself because after you’ve heard their ideas, then what you were thinking in the first place changes.
24:37.21
Lorie Jones
And it allows those younger, newer people to to to speak, to get their ideas out there. I love that. That’s a really smart idea. like I’m going to do that, Lori. going to put it down on my list. i’m going to put it down on my vision board.
24:51.51
Lorie Jones
yeah
24:51.66
Lori Frasier
and
24:53.26
Lorie Jones
um What scared you the most when you started? Was there anything maybe you weren’t scared?
24:59.42
Lori Frasier
Oh, I absolutely. What scares me that what scared me the most? so um You know, I, I, this is still, it’s so funny. But I still, like everybody, I still have some of that imposter syndrome, right? And I’m the youngest of five in my family. And then I was very often um for a long time, the youngest leader at a senior table.
25:25.04
Lori Frasier
um And somehow, even though that is certainly not the case anymore, um i still feel that sometimes. Like, how how did I get here? Like, um you know, it’s interesting how some of those things never go away. So I think, you know, when I was younger, I i was worried that people wondered if what, a you know,
25:50.56
Lori Frasier
what does she have to say? Kind of that kind of thing. So I don’t know, you know,
25:53.54
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. um and It’s so interesting, though, that that that still hasn’t gone away because like um thought i genuinely you’re ruining my imagination here, Laurie, because i genuinely thought that like as accomplished as you are and as good as you are at all these things that you wouldn’t wonder whether you were good anymore, that there was at some point you just got to where you were like, OK, I can do this. I know I’m good at this.
26:20.94
Lori Frasier
Um, I, when I, again, if I, if I think into, if I think intellectually about it, I know that, but, you know, maybe, maybe that keeps me humble. Maybe that’s, that keeps me curious too. Right.
26:36.11
Lori Frasier
um
26:36.16
Lorie Jones
yeah
26:36.92
Lori Frasier
ah so, you know, if I did think that i you know, was the smartest person in the room, um, I wouldn’t be asking questions. I wouldn’t be wanting to keep my mouth shut. Right.
26:48.85
Lori Frasier
um So maybe that’s the the silver lining to it is that it has a little humility to it.
26:56.30
Lorie Jones
So imposter syndrome is your superpower.
26:59.21
Lori Frasier
Yeah, it could be.
27:00.90
Lorie Jones
I like that.
27:01.82
Lori Frasier
It could be. And I guess, you know, the other thing i I have realized more and more as I’ve gotten older, and especially once I started to coach and do executive coaching, everybody, everybody has some fear.
27:18.18
Lori Frasier
Like most of what most of us don’t walk through life thinking I got it all figured out. um and um And I think there are some people that have enough swagger to make you think that’s true.
27:32.90
Lori Frasier
um But once you really get to know those people, you find that everybody has those vulnerabilities. Everybody wonders if they know enough.
27:44.88
Lori Frasier
um And if they are smart enough and and, yeah, the right person to be leading where they’re leading. It’s it’s interesting how much i I’ve learned that over the years.
27:54.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
27:57.56
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I think that’s true. And if we can look to and speak to those vulnerabilities, both both for those probably underneath us and those ah you know above us, um that puts a little bit more kindness out there into this world and and lifts us all right just a little bit more
28:15.97
Lori Frasier
Yeah. I mean, you were saying earlier, you know, this loneliness like epidemic, it’s an epidemic. um And I hadn’t read the article you were talking about, about the, you know, women leaders. That doesn’t surprise me at all.
28:28.61
Lori Frasier
um But I oddly, you know, the as technology has supposedly made us more connected, you know, i read a lot of stuff that says people feel more isolated than ever.
28:40.47
Lori Frasier
um And so, you know, really, the way to build connections with people is to be vulnerable um and to say, yeah, I get scared. I get scared sometimes.
28:50.57
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. I worry about that too. Yeah. This world is a little crazy. I’ve got some anxiety about it too,
28:58.67
Lori Frasier
Yeah. Yeah. This world is very crazy right now.
29:03.17
Lorie Jones
so Any unique challenges because you were a woman, Laurie?
29:10.54
Lori Frasier
Yes, yes. And I’ve never been a victim about it, right? um But, you know, I mean, everybody, you know, ever anybody who grew up in corporate America in the 80s and 90s has a story, right? um But that’s not even where I think the challenges came.
29:27.01
Lori Frasier
I think that even really well-meaning men in executive leadership don’t recognize how much the boys club still exists in a lot of places.
29:43.67
Lori Frasier
Um, I had a conversation with a leader, ah my boss who I had a great relationship with. Um, and I said, well, you know, people are, you know, the women around here talk a lot about the boys club.
29:57.34
Lori Frasier
And, um, you know, after kind of an initial, well, that’s, that’s not the case. That’s not the, you know, that’s, that, that’s not true kind of. um and then And then he sort of went quiet for a minute and they got he said, well, I guess the reason I don’t see it is that I’m in it.
30:17.61
Lori Frasier
And i I was like, bingo. Yes, that’s right. That’s right. And you know how people get into a club? They get invited by people who are already in the club.
30:29.71
Lori Frasier
And so if you don’t even know there is a club, how can you invite people into the club? You know what I mean? But there’s a level of denial, um I think, because there’s, you know, no nobody wants to be accused of, you know, being in any way biased or, you know, exclusionary.
30:48.97
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
30:49.77
Lori Frasier
And I don’t think most of what we see is purposeful exclusion. I really don’t. I think that we naturally, I naturally gra gravitate to women. I just told you, I have a couple of women’s groups. Like I naturally gravitate to people that are a little bit more like me. um And I’m working with a couple of groups right now on some, ah you know, events that have historically been women’s events.
31:16.00
Lori Frasier
And we’re trying to get pretty intentional about saying, actually, we want our allies in the room.
31:21.15
Lorie Jones
yeah
31:21.60
Lori Frasier
We don’t want it to feel exclusionary. There’s no way they would show up without us actually inviting them.
31:27.55
Lorie Jones
I know because there is uncomfortable in groups of all women as we are in groups of all men, right?
31:29.29
Lori Frasier
yeah
31:33.57
Lori Frasier
Exactly, exactly. So we need to reach out the hand and invite them and give them a role, like explain to them why we want them there. um And, um you know, and and I think more of the boys clubs that still exist in corporate America, it would be great if they had enough awareness to reach out a hand and say, you’re invited.
31:56.46
Lorie Jones
That idea allyship or, um you know, deliberately looking for and someone that you might be able to invite in or grow or help um just get a little with your network, because because men have created these networks for years and years and years.
31:59.76
Lori Frasier
Yes.
32:16.80
Lorie Jones
They’re really robust. They do great things. um Maybe inviting someone into that network that you that you wouldn’t normally think of doing.
32:28.55
Lori Frasier
Yeah. And even into the, you know, i you know, unfortunately what it looks like to people that are not in the club is it looks like high school or middle school clicks, right? It’s like, you know, that this group of people does stuff on the weekends. You hear that, Oh, well they all wound up the same, you know, they went out after that client event, just them, you know?
32:54.04
Lori Frasier
And so whether you’re intentionally trying to do that or not, the, the message it’s sending to the rest of the organization is there’s a club and I’m not in it. And so there’s just a set, a level of conscious and intentional inclusion that doesn’t happen naturally.
33:16.90
Lori Frasier
So if executives really want it to happen, they have to be They have to be intentional because it’s not going to be organic. It’s not going to be organic. It’s going to feel ah ah like a stretch sometimes.
33:30.17
Lorie Jones
Yeah. feel a little bit awkward, a little bit
33:32.25
Lori Frasier
Yeah.
33:33.33
Lorie Jones
Yeah, like a stretch. I love the way you put that. but But so needed and so necessary on both sides, I think.
33:39.99
Lori Frasier
On both sides, on both sides. And, you know, again, I keep i keep mentioning the younger generations. um They expect it, right? They’re they’re coming in.
33:51.44
Lori Frasier
with a true perspective that there is diversity because that’s how they’ve always lived. And what’s happening is they’re coming into these organizations and they’re seeing this stuff and they’re like, wait, if those are the rules, why should I assimilate to those rules?
34:10.69
Lori Frasier
So ah again, women my age, your age, we just we there we had no choice but to assimilate, right? These folks feel they have the choice. And that’s what I think we’re seeing a big is a big part of why we’re seeing people self-select out um or why corporations are sort of rejecting them because they’re expecting a voice. They’re expecting inclusion.
34:33.82
Lori Frasier
And when that doesn’t happen, they don’t necessarily just assimilate. They continue to push.
34:40.50
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
34:44.04
Lorie Jones
What is the thing, Lori, that you are most proud of?
34:51.39
Lori Frasier
um
34:55.08
Lori Frasier
Well, within my whole life, what I’m most proud of is is my family, my children, um the family that my husband and I built. um That’s what I’m most proud of.
35:08.04
Lori Frasier
um I would say in my, if you were to ask me that in my career,
35:16.30
Lori Frasier
i think it’s knowing that I’ve really had influence in making businesses better by making cultures better.
35:29.64
Lorie Jones
Yeah, you can look back and see i’ve made a difference. Yeah.
35:34.47
Lori Frasier
Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. And thankfully i have people that reach out to me and tell me that too. Um, cause everybody has their down days and especially starting my own business. I have a lot of self doubt and a lot of fear.
35:49.83
Lori Frasier
And when I hear from someone from my past um that, you know, that lets me know I made a difference, lets me know um that that just means the world.
36:01.01
Lorie Jones
I agree completely. i do some mentorship and I have this one particular woman that I’m mentoring and about every other time we kind of get together, she’s like, I just, so you know, i took that advice or thought about what you said and did this thing. And it just really, you’re making a difference in my life. You’re, you’re changing my life a little bit at a time because of what, what you’re saying or what you’re willing to do.
36:25.67
Lorie Jones
That means the world to me. And so just like you’re saying, like,
36:28.82
Lori Frasier
um
36:30.87
Lorie Jones
Like if somebody has impacted you, it means so much to me that i start looking around for places where people have impacted my life and sending them thank you notes.
36:41.62
Lori Frasier
And telling them, tell them, tell them that is my, that’s my, my best advice for people. If someone has made a difference for you, tell them because whether, because you probably think they’re sitting in that, at that board table,
36:51.56
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
36:56.69
Lori Frasier
feeling like they 100% belong there, like they have the answers, tell them that you’ve made a difference to them because they still need to hear it.
37:08.09
Lorie Jones
yeah Yeah. every level, every person, at every level, I’m convinced.
37:13.76
Lori Frasier
Absolutely.
37:13.96
Lorie Jones
So any advice for a young lady who’s just kind of starting down this path that you’re already so successful at? Is there anything you would tell her?
37:26.85
Lori Frasier
I think, I mean, you know, focus self-awareness, understand how you and your actions are impacting others.
37:39.43
Lori Frasier
It’s not your intent that matters. It’s your impact.
37:45.79
Lori Frasier
And i think I think it took me I think it takes most people too long to realize that, that you can have really good intentions, but if the way you’re impacting people makes them feel better,
37:56.85
Lori Frasier
beaten up or left behind, it doesn’t matter how good your intentions were. When you say, well, that’s not how I meant it, it doesn’t help the fact that that’s how they felt. um So really understand that there’s great responsibility in your impact um and your intentions don’t matter as much.
38:18.97
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s something important, I think, because i always think, well, that hasn’t isn’t the way I intended to do that. Or that wasn’t what I meant. but But you maybe need to do that second step of going back and finding out how they took that because because your intentions don’t matter.
38:29.17
Lori Frasier
Right.
38:36.47
Lorie Jones
But what you but they actually feel or how they actually experience that, that is what makes a difference in their life. so
38:45.39
Lori Frasier
Absolutely. That’s what they’ll remember you for. they won’t They don’t know what your intentions were. Even if you tell them, they’re going to remember what the impact was, not what the intentions were.
38:56.85
Lorie Jones
Oh, that’s so important. um Thank you so much, Lori, for spending some time with us and just talking us through your journey and all the different things and and the different bits of wisdom that you gave us. If I have a young woman who’s listening to this and wants to, um you know, call and get some advice or just ah ask some questions, how does she do that?
39:20.31
Lori Frasier
I think one of the best ways to get ahold of me is just LinkedIn. um i am an an avid LinkedIn user um and i’ll give yeah I’ll give you my email as well. my My website is still under construction or else I would give that to you right now.
39:34.65
Lori Frasier
But, um you know, I think LinkedIn and my email is fine. If you want to put those in the show notes, i I’d be great if somebody wanted to reach out to me.
39:42.96
Lorie Jones
Well, perfect. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
39:47.03
Lori Frasier
Thank you, Lori. What an honor to be included in your in your podcast. I really appreciate it. I love the name Fairless Females. Makes me feel good.
39:56.83
Lorie Jones
We’ve got some fearless females out there for sure.
39:59.67
Lori Frasier
That’s for sure.
39:59.90
Lorie Jones
We all are fearless females.
40:00.34
Lori Frasier
Yeah.
40:01.70
Lorie Jones
We just got to find our fearlessness sometimes it’ buried a little deeper.
40:05.98
Lori Frasier
Absolutely. Absolutely.
40:08.49
Lorie Jones
ah Thank you.
40:09.82
Lori Frasier
Thank you, Lori.