In this episode, host Lorie Jones spotlights Brooke Cozort, an ERISA attorney whose career path defies expectations. Brooke shares how she built a successful footing in finance—then bravely charted a new course back to law school in her mid-30s, all while balancing motherhood.
Brooke’s story is a refreshing testament to the power of reinvention, resilience, and trusting your instincts over the typical timeline. She candidly shares her reflections on imposter syndrome, leadership missteps, and what it looks like to start over when you’re already professionally established, bringing you her hard-won wisdom about investing in yourself, staying flexible, and recognizing when to find a new “horse.”
Professional women seeking inspiration and practical encouragement will find Brooke’s journey both relatable and energizing. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone ready to rewrite their definition of success!
Show Highlights:
- Brooke Cozort’s career homecoming, pivoting beyond certification. [05:10]
- Is it challenging to practice ERISA law outside of big firms? [09:44]
- The lasting security of investing early even $20 in a Roth IRA. [12:31]
- Should you go to law school without a clear life direction? [14:56]
- Lifting others at work, even if it’s not a management focus. [18:52]
- Why your best career move might be to step past self-doubt. [22:23]
- Navigating a leap of faith in a mid-career return to school. [27:34]
- A story of supportive advice on working motherhood. [30:23]
- The path of resilience with stress of liability risk and criticisms. [34:34]
- Advice for young women on confidence and the power to choose your “horse.” [38:40]
Connect with Brooke through email at BrookeCozort@gmail.com
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.62
Lorie Jones
Good morning, fearless females. So we are here with Brooke Kozart. Let me try that again because I think I said Kozart.
00:10.49
Brooke Cozort
Sure. Thank you.
00:11.95
Lorie Jones
Okay.
00:15.52
Lorie Jones
Good morning, fearless females. We are here with Brooke Kozart. She’s an ERISA attorney. I’m so excited. I had the chance to sit down and get to know Brooke just a little bit, and I think she’s got an amazing story. So I’m so excited that you decided to join us today.
00:30.04
Lorie Jones
Thank you so much, Brooke.
00:31.67
Brooke Cozort
sure thank you
00:33.38
Lorie Jones
So my first question is always the same and it’s my favorite. I love reading. I’m a reader. What is your favorite book?
00:40.65
Brooke Cozort
So I’m a huge reader as well. In fact, I’ve got about 12 books stacked on my bedside table right now, but mostly my genre is ah historical fiction. But there was a book that really hit home to me recently. i don’t know if you’ve read All the Light We Cannot See, but it’s the same author who wrote Cloud Cuckoo Land. And I loved that book.
01:01.78
Brooke Cozort
And I think what hit me the most about that book, the time I read it, which was just maybe five months ago, but just we’re sort of in a time of chaos and sad. And what I loved about that book was just basically the sort of emphasis on you cannot have the light without the dark. And so that there are dark times, but there but with with light comes dark and vice versa. So it just kind of made me feel a little little better about the world, I guess. But that’s been one of my favorites outside of historical fiction. Although he does throw in history in there.
01:36.77
Lorie Jones
Yeah, he does. And do you know, they’ve they’ve got a Netflix series on it now, I think.
01:41.51
Brooke Cozort
On that one or all the light we cannot see?
01:43.53
Lorie Jones
All the light you cannot see. Yeah.
01:45.02
Brooke Cozort
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not cloud cuckoo land, but yes, I did know about the all the light. but But I haven’t seen it yet, but I did hear that.
01:52.02
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah. I didn’t know he had the cloud cuckoo land. I didn’t know that he had another one.
01:57.06
Brooke Cozort
It’s amazing. It spans from, I want to say like, oh, Anyway, it it it is it its it goes all the way, way into the future and all the way into the past and then current day.
02:11.92
Brooke Cozort
So he intertwines the story into history, current and and future. And it’s amazing.
02:18.00
Lorie Jones
That sounds like a really good beach read. I love that idea.
02:21.41
Brooke Cozort
It’s pretty heavy, um but yes, it might be a little heavy for Beach, but it’s good.
02:28.50
Lorie Jones
Well, that I actually do a lot of heavy reading at the beach because I don’t get to do anything but finance and you know and return on investment and all that sort of stuff during my daily day-to-day sort of thing.
02:40.55
Lorie Jones
So like even if it’s fiction, if it’s heavy fiction, I’m good with it.
02:44.74
Brooke Cozort
Right. Yeah, I’m kind of like you. I actually don’t like to waste my time on just true, true, true fiction, because I just feel like I could be learning something. So I i tend not to be too light of a reader either.
02:55.79
Lorie Jones
yeah So tell me a little bit about your journey, Brooke. um Talk to us about how you got started and where you’re at now and kind of what you do.
03:05.91
Brooke Cozort
So i it’s funny because I kind of have to tell you what I did when I was in high school in order to get to where we are today, because I had a mentor in high school and she owned a travel agency and I delivered airline tickets to corporations all throughout Amarillo, Texas, which is where I grew up. and then when I went to college, I was, I worked at Merrill Lynch.
03:29.34
Brooke Cozort
Um, and I loved being in the financial industry. And by the time I had graduated, my mentor that was at the travel agency had transitioned to her own life change and became a financial consultant herself. And so I went around with her. I worked with her for a summer between moving from Austin, Texas to Denver.
03:48.49
Brooke Cozort
And so she was a financial consultant that handled mostly group retirement plans. And so I went with her to a 401k meeting and really just liked like dealing with more than just one individual. And then also she introduced me to somebody from Denver that worked at Nationwide Financial. And she said, you know, Brooke’s about to move to Denver. Do you know of anybody who’s looking for for an employee that just came out of Merrill Lynch? And they introduced me to this third party administration firm here in Denver. And kind of the rest is history with that. So I worked with them for 14 years, became and um became an owner of that company after about, let’s say,
04:29.07
Brooke Cozort
maybe seven years. And when I became an owner, I’d already taken all these tests to become what’s called a certified pension consultant. and And then what was called an enrolled retirement plan agent through the IRS, which has sort of gone by the wayside now. But what those designations allowed me to do was to represent clients in front of the IRS for their retirement plan issues that they had. And I kept having clients say, well, we’d we’d rather work with an ERISA attorney, so I would have to refer them to an ERISA attorney. So after a while, I just said, do you know what? I love what i do i
05:03.19
Brooke Cozort
i i could do almost everything an ERISA attorney can do except really practice law. So I decided after 14 years of work in the industry after undergrad to go back to law school. And so I went to law school to become an ERISA attorney.
05:18.79
Brooke Cozort
All my law school professors thought I was just a crazy person for, they were just like, really, you’re coming to law school to become an ERISA attorney and that’s it? And I said, yeah, that’s it. That’s all I want to do.
05:29.37
Brooke Cozort
But at the same time, my son started kindergarten the same year I started law school. So it made for a tough time at law school, um both balancing my kids and life. And I did quit work for the three years that I went to law school, but I still worked odd jobs just to keep money in the door. And since then,
05:48.58
Brooke Cozort
You know, I worked for my TPA firm for 14 years and i I, just, I kept, I kept running into just dislikes of the legal profession, just being in big law firms. And it just, it wasn’t a fit for me. And I just kept thinking, did i do there’ something wrong? Should I have done this? And I now work with a partnership out of Tacoma, Washington, ah small law firm of 11 partners. We’re all partners and it’s home. I mean, it’s the best place. We all support each other. one’s,
06:18.19
Brooke Cozort
No one’s just sort of a pompous attorney that thinks that they’re better than he. They’re just, it’s a great group of partners that just everybody has their back and it’s home. It’s where I’ll be forever, but I actually still live in Denver, but I work, my office is in Tacoma, Washington.
06:31.88
Lorie Jones
I love that. So I have so many questions. So did you, did you, do you have to go to like full attorney school, even if all you want to do is like practice, you have to pass the bar and go to.
06:43.34
Brooke Cozort
You have to pass the bar. Yep. Yep. You have to know about, what’s funny is so, I mean, I never ever thought I would be an attorney. There’s very few people. I think there’s one other attorney in my family.
06:54.61
Brooke Cozort
Um, but I had to Google what a tort was. Cause my first, one of my first class was, was torts. And I was like, what is a tort? So I Googled it and it’s just, uh, an action against another person that could be a claim for a lawsuit.
07:10.63
Brooke Cozort
So yeah, it’s just hitting somebody.
07:11.25
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
07:13.11
Brooke Cozort
saying something wrong about something, somebody that’s all a tort. So, but yeah, you did, you had to take three full years and they don’t really specialize in ERISA in law school. So really I just learned how to be a lawyer, really, not really.
07:28.63
Brooke Cozort
um But yeah, you you’re required to take the bar with all the topics. So yeah, i nothing pertained to ERISA on the bar, I guarantee it, nor tax.
07:39.03
Lorie Jones
And then when you got finished, how did you end up with this practice up in Washington? is there Are there specific practices that just work with ERISA attorneys or how does that work?
07:48.51
Brooke Cozort
Well, lot times you find ERISA attorneys in big law because ERISA is such a niche practice that, I mean, for some people it’s hard to gain clients if you don’t have the big support around you of of the big law firms. And so ERISA attorneys work with the tax group and the business group. And um I became an in-house counsel for a third party administration firm for a couple of years.
08:17.53
Brooke Cozort
And I had outside counsel that did whatever work I couldn’t do because technically you’re not allowed to practice law unless you’re in a law firm. So you can’t give opinions. you You can only provide guidance and say, well, we can’t really give you a full legal opinion. You’ll have to go seek advice from true ERISA attorney.
08:35.29
Brooke Cozort
So I would have to refer some of our clients to this ERISA attorney out of Washington. And one day he just said, you know, I’m getting close to retirement. Any chance you would want to come join us? And kind work with me until I retire. And ah he is still with us. He’s still working with us and probably will for a little while longer, but, but yeah, so I joined their practice and then we actually, they were a small Risa boutique firm of four Risa attorneys. And then when I joined them, we joined a bigger firm, seven more people that, that they practice, they specialize in tax and business. And so, so you have the bigger law firm where you can have,
09:15.35
Brooke Cozort
refer clients back and forth to each other for, you know, tax will need some ERISA help. Mergers and acquisitions will need ERISA help. So we all sort of push clients back and forth to each other. So it’s a great relationship.
09:30.78
Lorie Jones
Yeah. um And just for the listeners out there that are curious, because we keep talking about ERISA, because it is something that it’s just like everyday language to both of us, but it it’s an attorney that kind of works with those 401k plans or those structured.
09:40.59
Brooke Cozort
Right. Right.
09:46.59
Brooke Cozort
Group retirement plan. yeahp Yep, yep, yep. So yeah, we work with group retirement plans and keep them in compliance. But yeah, I guess to summarize, my my husband would say I work in nerd law.
09:52.18
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
09:56.65
Brooke Cozort
It’s a very nerdy practice, but I love it. shop
10:01.39
Lorie Jones
I love that. So or we’re not the the Wall Street guys that are late like, what is it, John Grisham that writes about lawyers all the time or something like that.
10:10.48
Brooke Cozort
Oh, right, yes, no. And I always have to preface that I am a transactional attorney, which means I don’t ever step foot in a courtroom.
10:11.62
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
10:17.89
Brooke Cozort
If somebody says they wanna sue somebody, I will say you need to find somebody else. I really just do transactional work, not not litigation. So yes, not gra John Grisham whatsoever.
10:29.70
Lorie Jones
So Brooke, think on ah back on your journey. Is there an investment that you’ve made in yourself that you feel like really made you who you are today? Like you could go back and you’re like, oh, I’m so glad I did that.
10:41.33
Brooke Cozort
Right. Well, there’s a couple of things. and And by investment, you can say your investment in your job, but but also from a financial standpoint. And I have to say, so when I worked at Merrill Lynch in college, our secretary, or I guess she was more of an administrative assistant to the the two financial consultants that I worked under, but she, within my first week of working at Merrill Lynch, and this is back when you actually had a little register, like you had a a booth, you would go in and deposit checks.
11:09.77
Brooke Cozort
And she said, I want you to walk up to the front office. She goes, take 20 bucks. I don’t care what you do, but go open a Roth IRA right now. And she said, and I don’t care what you do, whether you, you know, put $10 in $20 and you will thank me one day. And I truly do because I, it’s just to, to start somebody on the path of investing at such a young age and just to get in that habit. And it really, I mean, it’s, it’s definitely been, unfortunately my husband and I have both have a similar saving mindset, but it’s, that’s the best investment really from a financial standpoint. But I mean, I think you’d have to imagine that going to law school is a huge investment. I mean, just, I went to law school when I was 30, I think 35 and I graduated at 38. And so I just kind wanted to say is like, life doesn’t stop at 40. I mean, even like I’ve even debated going back and getting my
12:04.15
Brooke Cozort
specialization, LLM and tax, but it’s just like, okay, now, now it’s, I’ve had enough education, but I would say absolutely my best investment was going to law school and was huge investment.
12:12.67
Lorie Jones
I love that. Yeah. and i And I love that you mentioned the Roth IRA. I mean, it’s near and dear to my heart to get people started early in saving and investing in themselves.
12:21.03
Brooke Cozort
Yeah.
12:25.05
Lorie Jones
And and you’re right. like There’s an idea of investing in yourself as a person with your law school education, but there’s also you also cannot forget that actual investing piece, that actual putting money in an account to save for your future.
12:36.41
Brooke Cozort
right
12:39.91
Lorie Jones
And Future You is so grateful that you did that, right?
12:43.94
Brooke Cozort
Exactly. I mean, the the idea of compounded interest is it’s it is it is baffling and amazing. So, yes, start saving.
12:51.30
Lorie Jones
ah Yeah.
12:53.03
Brooke Cozort
It is magic.
12:53.05
Lorie Jones
Magic. It’s magic.
12:54.84
Brooke Cozort
is not
12:55.87
Lorie Jones
um So tell me, did you ever get some really bad advice? was Did anyone ever give you some, like the worst advice you’ve gotten? And did you take it? Did you not take it? Did you learn from it?
13:07.65
Brooke Cozort
Well, one of the biggest things, so one day my office was closed. We were always closed on Good Friday at my former third party administration firm. And so I took that day actually with nobody in the office. And I just said, I’m just going to call as many ERISA attorneys that i I’ve met throughout my career just to say, is this really worth it?
13:26.71
Brooke Cozort
Because it it was, I mean, as as I mentioned, I was a parent of two kids. i had a longstanding career. I was an owner, a part owner of a company. And I was just like,
13:37.33
Brooke Cozort
i really is it worth me taking this leap? And it was interesting. So I talked to some non-ERISA attorneys and some general, I mean, and a lot of attorneys are very negative about the work that they do.
13:49.76
Brooke Cozort
And so many were just like, oh, I would never go to law school. And one truly ERISA attorney who I actually, i love his educational platform.
13:59.58
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
14:00.46
Brooke Cozort
And he was just like, i’t I wouldn’t do it. and i what was interesting was just, hearing that and just thinking, and I kind of explained him who explained to him who my role model was, which is another wonderful RISA attorney named Eileen Ferenzi. But I was just like, she, she went to law school twice because her first time she got her law degree, she was in California at a night program. And you have to go to, it’s not a certified law school. I’m trying to think of the name of it, but
14:33.45
Brooke Cozort
But anyway, she had moved to Georgia. And when she moved to Georgia, they didn’t recognize her legal degree because she went to a night program that was not certified. So she was like, so you asked me if going to law school is worth it. I went to law school twice. So it was amazingly worth it.
14:46.19
Brooke Cozort
So so I guess I would just have to say the people that just said, don’t do it. And and I also when people ask me to to this day, would you do it again? Absolutely. Six times out of 10 or 10 times out of 10, I would do it.
15:00.20
Brooke Cozort
But I also would highly recommend to anybody looking into it, give life a chance for a couple, for a bit, you know, and MBA programs have a requirement that you work for two years. So you come in with some experience.
15:13.09
Brooke Cozort
I wish they did that for law school because I mean, thinking about females and and where our life changes after we have kids. And it’s just like, you put so much money and effort into law school and that if like you decide later that this wasn’t worth it,
15:26.83
Brooke Cozort
it might be a good idea to give a couple of years of life before you take that plunge because it’s not ah it’s not a cheap plunge and and it’s not for the faint of heart either.
15:36.56
Lorie Jones
And it it takes so much of your time and energy and effort.
15:39.28
Brooke Cozort
the
15:40.36
Lorie Jones
like you it’s It’s valid advice and really valuable to kind of look at that and see, is that for you? Is that right for you? and
15:50.33
Brooke Cozort
Right.
15:51.53
Lorie Jones
I like that idea. ah that And they do, so you know, with the MBA program, i know that they make you go through and you and you work in the industry for a while. So you kind of get some life experience behind you, which I feel like enriches that MBA program a little bit.
16:07.12
Brooke Cozort
Right, right. Well, there’s, there’s, I’m going to say kids because I was a grown woman when I went to law school, but there’s sort of this concept that’s called K through JD. So kindergarten through your law school degree.
16:19.18
Brooke Cozort
And these kids haven’t left school since they started kindergarten And that’s a long time to be in school. And yeah, your maturity level, I was actually impressed with a lot of the the people I went to school with, with their maturity level. i was like, I was not this mature when I was 22 years old. but But anyway, i do I do think it would be good for some students to have the requirement to take a gap couple of years and grow before going to law school.
16:46.78
Lorie Jones
What about um things that you would do differently? If you could go back um and knowing what you taking all the knowledge that you have now, but go back and redo a situation, is there something that you would do differently and and what and why and how?
17:03.38
Brooke Cozort
So this actually doesn’t have anything really to do with where I, my, my career, where I am today, but I, I was in management whenever I was at the third party administration firm. And I kind of joke, jokingly say I became an attorney so i could get out of management.
17:19.38
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
17:19.55
Brooke Cozort
I don’t like managing people, but my younger self, I wish I would have said, you know, I take for granted that some people don’t have confidence, you know, and and and it takes a long time to gain confidence. And there was a person who worked for us at the TPA firm and the person just did not have a lot of confidence. And, and instead of being ah cheerleader and instead of bringing somebody up, I really put the person down. And to this day, I still regret it. It’s just, she ended up leaving the company and it,
17:50.98
Brooke Cozort
didn’t, it didn’t bode well for us, but it is just sort like, just, know, why do we feel we have to intimidate other females and maybe not even other females, just people in general, like, you know, be positive, be be like help mentor people.
18:03.05
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
18:04.27
Brooke Cozort
And, and so I think that’s one of my biggest regrets. And, and like I said, i I don’t think I was the greatest manager in general. So I think where I am today and not managing people and just managing my workload is where I belong.
18:17.57
Brooke Cozort
But, but I do, I need to be kinder to those who don’t have so much confidence.
18:25.18
Lorie Jones
That makes sense. And that’s, and it it is hard because you don’t, you know, unless you get your MBA, you really don’t go to a management school. And even the MBA teaches you a lot more about return on investment than it does about, you know, people um helping and growing people.
18:41.42
Brooke Cozort
Well, and it’s so funny. I mean, we look at some of the people who are put in management roles and it’s because maybe because they’re great at what they do, And so therefore they should proceed upwards. But a lot of times that upward progression is means management. And many, many people in this world are not meant for management, but they are put there because because that’s the next step. But I mean, there are some companies that do such a good job at mentoring their managers and and and places, you know systems in place, education,
19:14.15
Brooke Cozort
passages in place that help these people, but a small TPA firm of 12 people doesn’t really have the luxury of that type of education.
19:23.78
Lorie Jones
ah Yeah. And I think it’s interesting too, that you kind of, you realized like this, this isn’t, this isn’t my happy place. It’s very easy to feel like, oh, I’m not, I’m not great at this, or this isn’t working really well for me, but, ah or even sometimes it is working really well for you.
19:31.70
Brooke Cozort
Hmm.
19:42.50
Lorie Jones
You’re just, you don’t love it. It’s not, you’re You’re not, you don’t love what you do. And so having the ability to look at that and say that this isn’t my path, what would fit me better? What would work better for me?
19:55.29
Brooke Cozort
Right, right.
19:57.58
Lorie Jones
What about um if you could go back and talk to yourself at the beginning of this journey at, you know, 20, 21 years old, what would you tell yourself?
20:05.27
Brooke Cozort
Mm-hmm.
20:06.32
Lorie Jones
Would you tell yourself, I’m curious, would you tell yourself to go to go to law school earlier?
20:10.87
Brooke Cozort
No, no.
20:10.94
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
20:11.59
Brooke Cozort
And I mean, it still to this day, I mean, it’s just like, I never, always like to say i I play a lawyer on TV because I just, I don’t really feel like a lawyer because I do what I’m passionate about, the ERISA part, but now I’m an attorney that does it.
20:25.48
Brooke Cozort
But i’ it’s just, it is never, ever, ever, it was never in my game plan at all.
20:30.14
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
20:30.63
Brooke Cozort
But I’m so thankful i took the plunge. But I mean, I think what I would tell my 20 year old self is just you’re not as cool as you think you are And there’s so much more to see out there that just give, give the lemons that are given to you and to, and try and make lemonade. Like, just don’t, don’t turn stuff down. Don’t, don’t be scared to try something new. Just, just enjoy, enjoy, also enjoy life. Don’t get me wrong. um Don’t, but just,
21:04.05
Brooke Cozort
Be willing to accept changes and and accept that change can be uncomfortable, but down the line it can become rewarding. But yeah, I think that will be my biggest thing is just,
21:18.85
Brooke Cozort
yeah, yeah, I think that would have to be it is just accept challenges and be flexible.
21:24.46
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
21:25.10
Brooke Cozort
But no, I don’t think I would tell my, well, now knowing what I know, i would absolutely tell myself to go to law school, but not until later, but But yeah, I would probably laugh at myself if I told myself to go to law school because I would not have any desire to do it at that age.
21:42.94
Lorie Jones
So um did you find that then that if this is your advice to your 20 year old self, did you find that you were like not flexible enough through the career or not taking things as they come or like what, what would prompt you?
21:57.48
Brooke Cozort
You know, so there one
22:02.79
Brooke Cozort
There were times that that I looked because I was at the company for 14 years. And so there were there were times that I was just like, gosh, is this is the right place for me. And actually, at one point in time, I interviewed for a company, a really big company.
22:16.30
Brooke Cozort
And they they they were located in Houston and in Oklahoma. And i I decided to just go off on a whim. And this was actually before we even even had kids. And I decided to go off on a whim and and apply for this job. And they ended up accepting, like, like ah offering me the job. And i found out i was pregnant and I was just like, oh my gosh, like I’m literally going to uproot my family. My husband won’t have a job wherever we’re going. what if something happens with this child? Like, what if, what if, what if?
22:50.47
Brooke Cozort
And so I turned them down and I just said, like I can’t do it. And what was really crazy is two years later, they reached out to me and said, hey, you know, you turned us down before, but would you consider the person who was going to be your boss has retired?
23:04.93
Brooke Cozort
Would you want to come and interview for his position? And I was just like, wow, that’s really cool. And I mean, it was a dream job. It really was a dream job outside of being an attorney. And again, i hadn’t still being an attorney was not anywhere in my, my focal point at that point in time.
23:21.99
Brooke Cozort
But, um, I went through these interviews, they had me interview in Oklahoma and then they flew me to Texas. And I mean, I was nailing it. I had all, I mean, they were the ones who came to me and I, and I just, all of a sudden, this was right after 08, when the market tanked and lots of people didn’t have jobs out there. And there were people,
23:40.96
Brooke Cozort
that were probably much more qualified than me. And I actually told my husband, I go, I think the only reason they want me is because I’m willing to move to Oklahoma because that’s where my husband was from. But i said there are so many other more qualified people.
23:50.31
Lorie Jones
but
23:53.13
Brooke Cozort
So, I mean, I literally, I interviewed with, probably four levels up the ranks than my boss would have been. And i get to this corner office in Houston with this, and i he was he was very high up in this company.
24:08.80
Brooke Cozort
And he just said, do you have any last questions for me? i mean, the interview was going great. And and i just said, i do. and I said, why me? And he goes, what? And I mean, like, literally, like I had, like I said, I was nailing these interviews. And he’s like, why me? And I said,
24:25.70
Brooke Cozort
you know there are so many other people you could be interviewing. And I said, I’m young. Cause I was only, i don’t know. Well, I guess I had my first child at 30. So I must’ve been like 33. But i mean, to me, I was a baby and like, didn’t, I didn’t belong in this huge company with all the, and so I just, I guess I just showed him my, my fear. And, and I do regret that, that I was just like, why did I do that? You know, why did why did I put myself down in an interview that I was nailing? And so, and then they just let me know,
24:55.28
Brooke Cozort
And actually the woman who came to me, she almost like didn’t want to speak to me anymore. I think like she thought that I was going to be her employee and I screwed it up with bosses, bosses, boss. and so those, that’s a big regret of mine is why, why doubt yourself when, when people do believe in you. So, you know, maybe I felt like an imposter at the time and it just wasn’t working for me, but I, I still to this day think shoulda, coulda, woulda, what, what would I have done? Where would I have been? Had do i gotten that position? And,
25:24.45
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. It probably wasn’t your life path, but that’s really an interesting way of looking at it.
25:26.95
Brooke Cozort
That’s life.
25:32.00
Lorie Jones
Like the, those self doubts or that imposter syndrome or that, what if I’m not good enough? Like, um, like maybe process that internally rather than externally, huh?
25:42.30
Brooke Cozort
Yeah, exactly. Don’t tell this CEO or whoever he was, you know, that you don’t have the confidence to have the job that he’s hiring you to take. So yeah, it was, that was, that was interesting.
25:56.09
Lorie Jones
What scared you the most when you started your career? Anything? Maybe nothing scared you.
26:01.45
Brooke Cozort
Yeah, no, because I mean, as I mentioned, you know, i was i was a partner or a part owner in this TPA firm I was with when I decided to take the plunge. and And frankly, I was going to go to the night school for law school, work during the day and be a mom and and a spouse.
26:21.26
Brooke Cozort
And so that was because I mean, I can’t say I was the breadwinner. My husband and i both definitely had great jobs, but but it was just sort of like I’m taking this huge leap of faith and I will not have it. So and I actually ended up deciding to not do the note night program, quit my job and go to law school for three years.
26:39.65
Brooke Cozort
And so it was just like, can we afford to do this? You know, we had fortunately our our little pennies we had started saving and our Roth accounts had grown nicely. And so we had savings to to help through that time. But it was just can we afford this? Is this crazy? I mean, and and also kind of whenever I was asking people, is it worth me going to to law school? You didn’t want to be like, so how much income am I really going to make when I get out of this? Because you don’t know, and you don’t want to be a jerk asking that question, but it is just like, what what is my potential here? And can I, is taking three years off and spending this much money on law school worth it? And so that was that was scary to me was just the financial,
27:23.09
Brooke Cozort
insecurity, but just sort of the, is it going to be worth it question? and and i will express the same phrase I expressed earlier that life does not stop at 40. I mean, keep pushing, like, it might be scary, but we we live longer. So if you’re not in the job you don’t want to be in like push yourself and it’s going to be scary. But at 40,
27:47.13
Brooke Cozort
We still have potentially 25 more years of working, if not longer. so So yeah, take the plunge. Go do something different.
27:53.71
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Do what you love. Yeah. I like that. I, think I always say life is too short to be stuck in a job that you dislike or the, you know, um, and so finding out what you love and, and working in that direction.
28:00.14
Brooke Cozort
Right.
28:09.09
Brooke Cozort
Yeah, exactly.
28:10.29
Lorie Jones
But my mom went to school and finished her, um, master’s when she was like 60 something, 62 or 60 years.
28:18.43
Brooke Cozort
Well, I mean, i so I always say I was not the youngest or the oldest person in law school by a long shot. I mean, there was actually a woman I went to law school with her. She had saved all this money in her 529 plan for her son.
28:29.87
Brooke Cozort
And her son ended up getting a a full ride to one of the one of the academies. I think it was maybe the Naval Academy. And so she had all this money and she goes, I’m going to law school. So, yeah, she i want to say she was in her late 50s, if not early 60s when she went to law school with me.
28:47.65
Lorie Jones
What about along your journey, Brooke? Did you run into any unique challenges because you were a woman?
28:55.14
Brooke Cozort
For sure. um Yeah, the the parenting thing was sure an issue. When I first became the part owner in my company, I was i just had our first child and i had to have i had to come in town or i had to come into the office for a meeting while I was on maternity leave. And and actually, it turns out to be one of my favorite meetings I ever had in my and my whole career.
29:20.09
Brooke Cozort
But I was also nursing my child and I didn’t bring a sweater. And so I’m here at this meeting with, as you can imagine what was happening with my shirt, interviewing somebody or talking with somebody.
29:33.19
Brooke Cozort
But um this this man, he was this man from India, lived in the United States. He was an auditor and we we were just kind of interviewing to work with him because we worked with audited clients a lot. And so it was ah yeah it’s sort of kismet that we were put together in this room on while I was on maternity leave to have him say, Brooke, never quit working.
30:01.24
Brooke Cozort
Like you said, you know, you said, I’ve got a wife who’s who helped raise our kids, but she was always working. and you said, it’s, it’s probably one of the best sort of, ways you can show your kid your worth, your value.
30:16.34
Brooke Cozort
it’s I mean, it has, it’s been, it’s been, it like I said, it was, it was one of the greatest meetings that I couldn’t have, I couldn’t have placed it it at a better spot because while I’m sitting there thinking, I can’t afford to send my kids to daycare. I mean, this was well before law school, but, but yeah, i mean, thinking about the cost of daycare and should I stop working? One of us needs to stop working. And and I’m so thankful because I do. I, I, I think now when my children have gotten to see me go through law school and it’s, it’s, it’s probably a great representation of how you,
30:49.44
Brooke Cozort
And not to say you have to be a workaholic. There’s there’s there’s nothing wrong with being a stay-at-home mom or to to just step out of the workforce for a while. But but I do think I’m thankful for that because it’s…
31:00.88
Brooke Cozort
It is. It’s when you see those dollar amounts for daycare costs and think, okay, is it worth me working to make this dollar amount to pay that dollar amount?
31:09.22
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
31:10.55
Brooke Cozort
It’s, it’s scary and it’s tough as a woman. And, and even just crying the first time you drop your kid off at daycare to go to work.
31:16.19
Lorie Jones
yeah
31:18.22
Brooke Cozort
But I wouldn’t change that either.
31:18.18
Lorie Jones
ah
31:20.37
Brooke Cozort
I want my kids to see me working hard and and being a good example for them.
31:25.05
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I think it’s I think it’s so interesting that as women, we have so many different opportunities. um You know, we there are challenges as well, but there are so many different opportunities for things that we can do and ways that we can show our kids that we show up in this world.
31:41.20
Brooke Cozort
Mm-hmm.
31:41.41
Lorie Jones
you know And I i love that that as women, we’re becoming kind of more supportive towards all those different avenues.
31:41.66
Brooke Cozort
Yeah.
31:48.63
Lorie Jones
There’s not just one way of doing things anymore. There’s a lot of different options. and And I think that um you know all of us, ah every person that I’ve ever talked to and interviewed has had the idea of mom guilt, including myself.
32:05.27
Brooke Cozort
Mm-hmm.
32:05.25
Lorie Jones
And I think that that coming to an understanding that we are we’re making trade-offs sometimes, but that that doesn’t have to me be less than on either side.
32:16.52
Brooke Cozort
Right, right, right.
32:17.40
Lorie Jones
Right?
32:19.09
Brooke Cozort
Well, and I think it helps to have a very supportive husband, which I do, who does take a lot of the the primary parenting roles that I probably couldn’t do without him.
32:22.75
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
32:30.16
Brooke Cozort
So yeah, ah definitely I definitely have peers that do not have such supportive spouses that makes it a little bit harder to try and do both.
32:31.28
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
32:38.63
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. I was recently talking to someone who told me that a single woman could, a single mom could run the world because, because they you I do, you know, you do rely on your spouse a lot of times for those, that back and forth.
32:52.00
Brooke Cozort
Oh yeah.
32:54.76
Brooke Cozort
Yeah. I don’t, I single moms, I applaud you a thousand percent. but
32:59.78
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. um
33:02.38
Brooke Cozort
And dad.
33:02.40
Lorie Jones
What about, yeah, exactly. What about, um Brooke, what is the thing that you are most proud of?
33:13.98
Brooke Cozort
I think there’s there’s a part of me in my law school journey where I was falling down and I just, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and just said, you know, again, life, life does not end 40, keep working hard at this. And it it worked out, but I think just, you know, falling down and and getting back up and there were, they’re not even falling down, but going through really,
33:44.14
Brooke Cozort
bad work experiences post law school and just, and not giving up. I mean, I, I’ve had more anxiety as a lawyer as than I ever had before I went to law school. And there is, there’s a lot more pressure on you in this, in this, you know, you, you can be sued. I mean, anybody can be sued, but and you know, if you provide bad advice and it is, it’s just, it is a very stressful, stressful field, but you know, just There’s people that I think tried to put me down or tried to make me believe that I wasn’t worth being in this industry. And I, I just, I kicked them. i ah
34:20.35
Brooke Cozort
kicked off the feelings and and kept moving forward. So I think just getting back up after you fall down is just really important.
34:28.09
Lorie Jones
Any um suggestions for how you find the courage and fortitude and gumption to to pick yourself up? Because it’s a discouraging place. I’ve been in those places where you’re just, you’re like, why am I even trying today?
34:43.15
Brooke Cozort
It is. And I mean, ah we kind of could go back to the the employee that I had that but definitely didn’t have the but confidence. And I mean, i there are definitely people that don’t have it. And I’m not to say that, you know, I’m so great because I have this ability to let negativity flow off my back. But it does. It takes, let’s just say it takes a lot of life experience to be able to accept negativity. And I mean, I think maybe just Well, probably a lot of it comes from just working from a young age and also working at Merrill Lynch. I mean, that’s a, as you know, as a financial advisor, I mean, we’re in a male dominated world.
35:25.47
Brooke Cozort
And so I feel like all my whole life, maybe not necessarily when I was with the TPA firm, just because that actually is a lot of females that do that type of work. But I think just, ah it’s just life.
35:34.01
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
35:36.96
Brooke Cozort
I mean, getting, getting, getting through a lot of different adventures. the The boss I had at Merrill Lynch was really funny. He was, he was very militaristic. He had been to, he was in the air force, but the first time I interviewed with him, i was just going to be an intern.
35:56.47
Brooke Cozort
My dad had a good friend at Merrill Lynch in Amarillo, Texas that knew this guy and put me in touch with them, but he sat me down in his office and he goes, I don’t pay interns. And I said, okay. And he said, I don’t think you’re worth it.
36:07.69
Brooke Cozort
And so I’m not going to pay you. and We start at 8 a.m. and 8 a.m. means 7.55. And if you’re not here at 7.55, I expect donuts. And so so i were I ended up working there for three years. I loved him, but but I always say that that was probably the best person I ever worked for. And he was so mean at the first, but I mean, but but after I wanna let’s say, I don’t know, maybe it was six weeks, he brought me back into his office and he said, okay, you’ve proven yourself. I’ll start paying you now.
36:39.20
Brooke Cozort
So, you know, it’s just sort of one of those things is, a you know, gosh, how old was I must have been 19 years old and having this guy just, um don’t pay You’re not worth it. So it’s like, okay, but I just want experience. So thank you.
36:52.32
Brooke Cozort
But I do, I still, I love his name was OB and I love, he was, he was a great person to work for. Mm-hmm.
36:57.50
Lorie Jones
I love that. Any advice for young woman who’s just kind of just starting down the path that you’re already successful at? And I, I, I literally don’t know what path you would choose.
37:08.92
Lorie Jones
Like, is it the lawyer path? Is it the TPA path? Is it the mom path? Like you choose, but any advice for her?
37:14.82
Brooke Cozort
Right.
37:17.64
Brooke Cozort
Yeah. Well, it’s funny that you mentioned this. So there was a woman that I met just recently and she was very new to this industry and i was so impressed with her. I was like, you, I think you’re 22 years old and she’s sitting here just asking different women in our group, you know, what would you do if you were me? And i was just like, you’re doing all the right things. You’re sitting here asking pretty successful people in this industry. How can I,
37:44.86
Brooke Cozort
do what you’re doing. And I just, I was so impressed with her. And so i would say, you know, if you can gain the confidence and there’s, there’s places you can get confidence. You can go to, there’s places called like Toastmasters International that teach you about presenting. i mean, the more confidence you can have walking into a room. And I mean, literally you can, you can completely set the tone, whether in a positive or a negative way, when you walk into a room,
38:10.30
Brooke Cozort
whether you’re slouched or you’re standing straight up. I mean, there their body language is so much, but I mean, just being confident and being able to, like said, I was so impressed with this 22 year old, if that, you know maybe she’s 24 or whatever it was, but, but still impressed that she had that confidence. And so, yeah, I mean, the any which way you can find confidence. And if that’s just asking questions and getting a good response, hopefully then that builds her up to feel confidence the next time. But Uh, but one thing I’d like to say is if you fall off the horse, get back on.
38:45.08
Brooke Cozort
And if you and the horse don’t get along, then find a different horse.
38:48.49
Lorie Jones
laughter
38:49.70
Brooke Cozort
As you said earlier, life is too short to work in a job you don’t like. And so I guess just try it out. But it is, I mean, if you’re going to either in the financial industry or in the legal industry, we are in a male dominated universe verse in both of those industries. So you’ve just got to, got to roll with the punches. You have to have a sense of humor. If somebody is going to be a jerk, just smile and move on. But yeah, it’s, it’s, I would say either way, either path has been a very rewarding path for me.
39:22.17
Lorie Jones
I love that. I love that. And I love the idea that if you if you fall off the horse and you don’t like the horse, find a different horse.
39:29.03
Brooke Cozort
but what
39:29.13
Lorie Jones
I think that’s hilarious. I think I i definitely, I’m going to put that quote somewhere on my vision board.
39:35.09
Brooke Cozort
find a different horse. There’s plenty of horses out there.
39:37.06
Lorie Jones
ah lot.
39:39.59
Brooke Cozort
for
39:39.76
Lorie Jones
Well, thank you so much, Brooke, for your time today. I really appreciated hearing about your journey. If I have a listener who wants to get in touch with you, ask questions, pick your brain, get some advice, how does she do that?
39:51.43
Brooke Cozort
Um, feel free. You can email me. I’ll, um, my personal email is just brookcosort at gmail.com. And that’s, B-R-O-O-K-E-C-O-Z-O-R-T at gmail.com.
40:06.29
Lorie Jones
Perfect. Well, thank you so much for spending the time with us.
40:09.31
Brooke Cozort
Yep. Thank you.