In today’s episode, Lorie Jones is spotlighting Saly Fayez, director of Victim Services at Fairfax County Police Department, whose story exemplifies bold leadership, unwavering empathy, and a powerful choice to never shrink in the face of challenge.
From being voluntold into an unexpected path to building and nurturing high-performing teams that now carry her legacy, Saly’s journey is a testament to letting your voice be heard. With over two decades in law-enforcement advocacy, she reveals hard-earned insights about loyalty and confidence, and the importance of leading with purpose and heart.
Tune in for a conversation beyond procedural advice. Saly shares vulnerable career lessons and discusses the high stakes of advocating for victims of violent crime. She offers actionable strategies for young women to claim their seat and lead unapologetically, with a reminder that your place at the table is not just deserved, but needed.
Show Highlights:
- Lorie’s family experience with trauma and victim advocacy. [01:06]
- Choosing careers that choose us that arise outside plans. [07:25]
- What leadership and a leadership legacy really means. [10:12]
- The power of refusing to shrink your voice and expectations. [14:55]
- Are direct victim advocacy roles suited for everyone? [17:07]
- Surprising work text misreading to beware of with Gen-Zers. [19:05]
- How to build better teams—and why female collegiality matters. [20:36]
- Navigating loyalty in professional relationships with wisdom. [24:14]
- Why a well-earned, guaranteed retirement package is a win. [30:30]
- Learn about the weight and reality of victim advocacy. [34:43]
- Gender bias in the police, and confidence tips for all fields. [38:29]
- Wisdom for handling gossip and unwarranted people issues. [42:09]
- Strong advice for young women to grow and pick their battles. [46:49]
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.30
Lorie Jones
Good morning, Fearless Females. today So today we have Sally Fayez. She is the Director of Victim Services. And I had a chance to just chat with Sally a little bit. And I’m so excited about your interview.
00:12.78
Lorie Jones
I really think this is going to be neat. Thank you for giving us the time, Sally.
00:16.22
Saly Fayez
Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited. And sorry, I know I’ve i’ve postponed it a ah few times. So thanks for bearing with me.
00:23.43
Lorie Jones
We’re just excited to listen to your story. So my very first question is always the same.
00:25.76
Saly Fayez
Thanks.
00:28.71
Lorie Jones
i love books. I am a ah voracious reader. What is your favorite book?
00:34.55
Saly Fayez
So I have two, which kind of falls in line with what I do. Catcher in the Rye. is one of them. And then To Kill a Mockingbird is another one of my favorites. And I actually just recently, and those i read back in wow, I think high school and college, but I just recently purchased Capture in the Rye again. um It’s sitting on my nightstand, which is funny you asked the question and I’m waiting to read it again.
00:57.21
Lorie Jones
but I know I have a whole stack of books on my light nightstand. In fact, I just had to put new bookcases in my house because yeah because I had too many books and I’m like, where else can we stash some books in this house?
01:05.05
Saly Fayez
wow.
01:11.03
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
01:11.87
Saly Fayez
Yeah, I have them like on my, in my nightstand in my, like everywhere else I have a guest bedroom. That’s probably not the guest bedroom anymore. It’s like my hoarding room. So there’s some books in there, but, but I’m excited to read it again.
01:20.95
Lorie Jones
yeah
01:22.95
Saly Fayez
I just, you know, there’s certain books that just resonate with you and like you remember them. And those are two of the ones that I remember the most.
01:28.98
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I think I read To Kill a Mockingbird. I mean, I’ve read it through the years, but I think I read it first when I was back in like grade school or something, not grade school, maybe middle school. But it just really it’s that story sticks with you, doesn’t it?
01:38.49
Saly Fayez
Yeah.
01:42.82
Lorie Jones
It just doesn’t leave.
01:43.04
Saly Fayez
Yes, it does.
01:43.90
Lorie Jones
Yeah. So tell me a little bit about your journey, Sally. How did you get where you’re at today? Did you always did you like know your path? You went straight there, or was it a little bit curvy. Like, tell me about who you how you got here and what you do.
01:58.78
Saly Fayez
So I thought I knew my path until I went to get my master’s degree. And so I was actually voluntold to be in this career, literally voluntold. um So I was in grad school at the University of Pittsburgh. And all my work prior to that had been with working with juvenile offenders. And that’s where all my experience was the little few months between undergrad and going to grad school. I had worked in a juvenile offending home and I was hoping to do my internship. And so when you get your master’s of social work, you have to do a year internship. And so I was all prepared to do my internship working either at the public defender’s office or something with juvenile offenders.
02:36.66
Saly Fayez
And so my advisor, told me that I needed to see how the other half lives. And so she told me, or Valen told me, that I’m going to be working at the Center for Victims of Violent Crime.
02:42.84
Lorie Jones
Okay.
02:48.25
Saly Fayez
And so not only was I going to be working at the Center for Victims of Violent Crime, but I was going to be working with victims of juvenile offenders. So the exact opposite of what I wanted to do. So I didn’t choose it. My journey kind of chose me and it changed everything. It it changed the trajectory of my career. 25 years, I’ve been working with victims of violent crime. So, you know, and people ask me and and I take on interns here and I tell them about my own experience with my internship and I say, you know, the internship didn’t just change my career path, that it it kind of changed how I understood the criminal justice system and justice entirely. and I never looked back, which is kind of why I go back to the two books, because both of those books, especially To Kill a Mockingbird, is about an unjust system.
03:34.01
Lorie Jones
it
03:34.55
Saly Fayez
And so I had just spent so much time figuring out and understanding offenders that I just didn’t even think about the other side. And so, like I said, I didn’t choose it, it chose me, but I wouldn’t do anything else.
03:46.81
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And I guess you probably wouldn’t have stuck with it if it didn’t speak to you. Right.
03:51.18
Saly Fayez
No, no, not at all. And I even and kind of had my little graduate school attitude. I was like, that’s fine, but I’m just gonna go back to working with juvenile offenders. And I remember my supervisor at my internship, um I still keep in touch with her.
04:04.20
Saly Fayez
And she told me I’ll never go back. And I challenged her and I said, I’ll go back when this is over. And they actually ended up hiring me after I graduated. And then the center for victims of violent crime hired me.
04:16.55
Saly Fayez
I worked in their prevention education department and then crazy enough, I then became the supervisor over the juvenile court unit. So yeah.
04:23.30
Lorie Jones
Oh, well. It was just meant to be. You just had to find your way there. so ah Well, voluntold to find your way there, I guess.
04:29.21
Saly Fayez
Yes. Yes. Yeah, definitely, definitely a volunteer, told but I wouldn’t have done it any other way. So I’m i’m grateful to those people.
04:38.23
Lorie Jones
So as you kind of think along your journey, um what is the best, is there ah a really good investment you’ve made in yourself, something that you’ve done that you’re like, oh my goodness, I just would not be as successful as I am today if I hadn’t done that thing?
04:54.80
Saly Fayez
Um, I think for me, it was learning how to be a leader, learning what the definition of leader really meant. you know I was a supervisor in Pittsburgh. I’ve been a supervisor here in Fairfax County for 16 years now.
05:08.38
Saly Fayez
And so I had to learn to lead people, not just manage them.
05:12.67
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
05:13.33
Saly Fayez
And that was an investment in myself, even though people sometimes question, like, how is that an investment in yourself? Because it allowed me to then grow other people when I started investing in my team.
05:26.71
Saly Fayez
So to me, that was really, really valuable. You know, I was once told i was too emotionally invested to be effective. um i had to decide right then who I was going to be, and I chose not to change that for anybody.
05:38.74
Lorie Jones
I love that. So you said lead, not just manage. Tell me what the difference is there.
05:42.49
Saly Fayez
Yes.
05:45.21
Saly Fayez
You know, there’s, you always say there’s a difference between a leader and a boss, right? a leader is, for me personally, where I lead with empathy, I lead with purpose. That’s not necessarily everyone’s style.
05:56.82
Saly Fayez
Some people want to be a boss, directing people what to do, telling them what to do, but not explaining why you’re asking them to do things, not leading by example. I’ve never asked my people to do something that I i myself haven’t done.
06:09.51
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
06:10.24
Saly Fayez
And I think it’s it’s important to not lead for approval, not lead for the titles, to lead with purpose. And like I said, I don’t think that’s for everyone and I’m okay with that. I do believe that my impact is measured by the people that I develop, not the fact that I’m called a director.
06:27.79
Saly Fayez
And an example of that is, you know, one of, one of my employees that worked for me for almost 10 years recently left to go become a director of her own victim services unit at a newly created department division. And so to me,
06:45.37
Saly Fayez
when I retire here, I know that that will continue with other people.
06:49.91
Lorie Jones
and And what made you so passionate about that? There must have been a ah spot where you’re like, ah this this idea of growing people and and leaving a legacy is more, is is one of the most important things to me. Like when when did that happen?
07:08.07
Saly Fayez
I don’t know if I can tell you when, I think it’s just, I think it’s the work that we do. You know, we work with people at the worst time of their life.
07:12.85
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
07:15.22
Saly Fayez
You know, we meet people. or always say we meet the best people the worst time of their life and they let us in. And I think that’s an honor for them to let us in. And so for me, I want to carry that on.
07:26.44
Saly Fayez
You know, I can, I can retire in a few years, but I don’t want this to end with me. I’ve been with this department. I’m in my 23rd year. So I’ve been doing victim services for,
07:37.20
Saly Fayez
25 years, maybe 26. And I wanted to continue because it doesn’t end here. It just keeps getting better. And so when I leave, I want to know that I’ve left a group of people that can carry what I’ve started on and continue it.
07:50.65
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. And I love the idea of investing in that too. Like there are a lot of it’s it’s really hard. Usually when you become a manager, what happens is you’re good at what you do. And so they promote you. And now you’re in charge of people doing what you do. And a lot of times you don’t get any training, you don’t get any direction. um and And some people aren’t good at it. Yeah.
08:17.30
Saly Fayez
You know, and and am I perfect? Absolutely not. If you ask the 20 people that I do lead, they may tell you some different things, but I think what they will tell you, they know I care about them. I care about their future. And I’ve always said to people, I said, if you leave here to make yourself better and to go somewhere that’s going to continue your path, whether it’s in victim services or something else, and I’ve done my job.
08:37.88
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
08:38.18
Saly Fayez
I’ve never discouraged anyone to look for another job. You know, they’re not The devotion shouldn’t be to me. It should be devoted to their passion and what they want to do. And so that’s really, really important to me. And even, you know, the work we do is advocacy, but every single person has a different strength. Every single person that I supervise has a different way of doing things, a different way of wanting to do things. Some love public speaking, some love doing grant writing, and and that’s their opportunity to come tell me, like, you know, I want to do something on top of what our normal job is, and I encourage that.
09:10.78
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. I love that. i I did. I did a similar deep dive into leadership and leadership principles and kind of trying to see how to develop people that could take those skills and move forward with them.
09:24.85
Lorie Jones
And I love that you that you’re that you’re passionate about that because it it makes a difference to those to the legacy that you leave behind, you know.
09:33.65
Saly Fayez
Yeah, agree.
09:34.65
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
09:35.01
Saly Fayez
I hope so, but I agree.
09:35.83
Lorie Jones
yeah
09:36.30
Saly Fayez
with
09:37.78
Lorie Jones
What is the worst advice you’ve ever been given? Have you ever had some really bad advice? And I’m always interested in whether you took the advice or whether you didn’t.
09:49.45
Saly Fayez
Um, I would say to me, I think the worst I I’ve got was sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly was, was to shrink, um, was to soften my voice. Um,
10:00.70
Saly Fayez
make myself more comfortable for other people. And, and I did do that for a while. Um, and then what I ended up learning is that shrinking doesn’t necessarily make anyone more comfortable. it just makes me less effective.
10:15.29
Saly Fayez
And, and I just believe again, in the work that we do, the victims and survivors that we work with, um, they deserve my entire voice, not, not to shrink because I’m an advocate first and foremost. Um,
10:27.41
Saly Fayez
you know, I’ve been an advocate, even once I became the director, I’m still an advocate and I’m advocating not only for victims, but I’m advocating for my staff. You know, and i was also told two things i did. So that i I did for a little bit and then I learned, let’s not do that.
10:41.05
Lorie Jones
Okay.
10:42.07
Saly Fayez
But i was also told to lower my expectations when I became a director. and I remember telling somebody telling me that You know, i I assume that things should be up here, but because that’s how I work, but not everybody’s going to work that bar that you have.
10:57.43
Saly Fayez
So lower your expectations and keep my emotional distance. But I rejected both of those. I just, you know, I don’t think excellence is necessarily unkind and I don’t think empathy is weakness.
11:10.07
Saly Fayez
I think there are strengths in this work, you know, to be both. So for me,
11:15.10
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
11:16.98
Saly Fayez
not having the expectations of my unit that I would have of myself is not something that I believe would make me an effective leader because I felt that if I could do the work, then they could do the work too. So I do, I do raise my expectations. I have high expectations for the people that I hire um because I want them to have those expectations for themselves.
11:37.59
Lorie Jones
I found too that a lot of times they live up to those expectations. If you expect a lot out of people and you have really high standards, um they don’t want to disappoint you, especially if they know that you truly care about them and their journey and their life and their work and their purpose.
11:42.28
Saly Fayez
Yes.
11:53.73
Lorie Jones
And so they don’t want to disappoint. And so they’ll put forward the extra effort, which in turn makes them better people too.
12:04.89
Saly Fayez
A hundred percent, you know, I’ve, you know, and the age range is funny because the age range with my folks is anywhere between like 23 and then those of us that have been here so long, like in our fifties.
12:13.52
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
12:16.92
Saly Fayez
And so it’s even generational differences, but you know, my other job is anyone that comes into this field is going to have insecurities. I had insecurities about, am I doing the right thing?
12:28.54
Saly Fayez
Am I helping? And so, to raise their expectations is to raise their confidence and it’s to get them prepared to, to do this work and to continue to do this work because the, the burnout rate is so high and,
12:43.48
Lorie Jones
Oh, I can imagine. Okay.
12:44.66
Saly Fayez
And you have to have the ability to be resilient. And and that to me is also part of of higher expectations of if you want to do this work, and some people have done it and decided they don’t want to do this and they’ve left. And I’ve supported that as well, because on paper, it looks like a cool job, right? You’re working for the police department, you’re working with victims. Everyone thinks you’re Olivia Benson on SVU. But the reality is it’s a really tough job. And there have been people that have come and gone and there have been people that have stayed. And so it’s to build that confidence to say, you know, this is, I want to do this work and I want to be better and better at it every day.
13:22.56
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. is there something specific you use to help build that confidence? Or is there steps you take? Or is it just organic?
13:32.88
Saly Fayez
Definitely not organic. I think again, it’s, it’s having those conversations. It’s understanding that every single person that works for me,
13:44.92
Saly Fayez
comes in with different life experiences, different expectations of themselves, different competences, different anxieties. And I have to make sure that I’m looking at them as individuals and not having that group think mentality that all of them are the same.
13:52.73
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
14:00.86
Saly Fayez
Because I think everyone learns a different way and how I approach them. And I’ve had to learn that I made my mistakes where I had to remember, you know, we were just talking in a meeting earlier today with, like again, the the younger folks of, things that I have said in a text message that they have read wrong because of the tone or because of, you know, things that I never, like, I don’t know if you knew this, but if you put a period, if I put a period after a sentence in a text, they think I’m mad at them.
14:30.42
Saly Fayez
And I just laughed and I’m like, that’s just called punctuation. Like that’s what I’ve learned in English class. um Or if I write okay instead of K, then I must be mad at them.
14:40.98
Saly Fayez
I mean, things that I’ve never even would imagine was an issue, but people told me like they would go home upset. And I, so, and part of me wanted to say that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
14:52.28
Saly Fayez
Get over it. But then I had to remember and go, but this is what they’re telling you. So embrace that and respect it.
14:56.05
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
14:58.44
Saly Fayez
And, you know, and, it still pains me. So I’m always going to put a period after my sentence. I just can’t do it. But, um but I’ve had to learn to say things like, Hey, are you here?
15:05.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
15:09.41
Saly Fayez
or Can you come meet with me? And there are certain people I actually have to say, you’re not in trouble. yeah Because I think getting something from your boss, they automatically think they’re in trouble. And so I just have to be keen on that.
15:21.34
Saly Fayez
And I’ve, and I’ve tried, I make mistakes still, but I’ve tried.
15:21.66
Lorie Jones
Yeah. So do you do you do like regular but like how do you understand them at such a deep level and such a individual level?
15:32.40
Lorie Jones
Do you do you have coaching with them or do you hang out together have like structured hangout time? How do you do it?
15:40.16
Saly Fayez
Yes, a little bit of everything. So what I do, you know, quarterly, i will have individual meetings. Again, it’s 20 of them. They’re in court so much. Like, we don’t have the type of unit that I can do once a week. Let’s do check-ins with everybody because you would just be sitting in meetings all day long. But when I have my quarterly check-ins with them, I actually give them homework to do. And there are certain things that I ask them to come to me with. And every single time it’s different.
16:05.16
Saly Fayez
You know, there was a time where I think one year i or one quarter, I i delved into Brene Brown and took some of her stuff off of her website. Yeah. you know, I’ve had them, there was that Netflix series that I had them watch the, the courage.
16:13.91
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
16:20.64
Saly Fayez
And then we got on, it was during, that was during COVID. We got on zoom and we talked about it and, you know, just today we did the strengths finder where we had somebody come in and and they had already taken the test to talk about their strengths and and what their strengths are in just conversations.
16:37.44
Saly Fayez
And when it’s time to do their annual evaluations, again, it’s, letting them come to me and telling me what they felt that they’ve worked on this year. and And when you have those conversations with your staff individually, you get to know them in a different way.
16:53.07
Saly Fayez
And then you get to know them when you’re doing team meetings.
16:53.15
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
16:56.32
Saly Fayez
So we have staff meetings once a week and we do round table and I have them bring a case to the table, of like how it’s going and things like that. But you see and learn personalities that way as well.
17:07.94
Saly Fayez
You see how people respond to things. And and we also have direct conversations. you know I’m just a firm, firm believer that women can get along. And I think a lot of people’s relationships are based on how their leaders perceive them.
17:23.74
Saly Fayez
And so if I don’t have that expectation of them, that they can work together and they can be a team, do they have to like each other every day? Absolutely not. But do they need to respect each other for the work we do?
17:34.10
Saly Fayez
Yes. And so, yes, your resume is important. yes, how many years you’ve done this or not done this is important, but it’s also how do you get along with the team?
17:44.53
Saly Fayez
And so that to me is even more important because if you’re not willing to put aside the toxicness that can happen sometimes, then what you’re doing is you’re causing an entire group of people to not be able to work together.
17:44.77
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
17:57.63
Saly Fayez
And it only takes one person. It takes one person to ruin an entirely good group of people.
17:59.32
Lorie Jones
yeah
18:03.43
Saly Fayez
And They know that about me. They know that I don’t put up with that because the work’s too hard and, and we should embrace each other and lift people up.
18:11.70
Lorie Jones
And too important to what you do is really important.
18:16.46
Saly Fayez
Definitely. And I, and I’ve said that too. I’ve said, you know if you all have time to not get along with each other, then you’re not busy, you know, and people have learned, you know, when, when a lot of people, when they first started working here and working for me, they were single, not, you know, not married, no children.
18:30.97
Saly Fayez
And, They kind of never maybe understood why I said it was so important because some of the parents saw how important that was because when you become a parent and your child is sick, you’re leaning on your team to to cover your cases and and do things like that. And so now all these people are now married with children and they’re seeing that. And you know I’m not married, I don’t have children, but I saw it within my own sister and and what she needed. and so to respect and work well with one another, then you have the comfort to text a group and say, hey, so-and-so so sick, can someone cover this case for me?
19:03.67
Saly Fayez
And that’s teamwork and that’s that’s being adhesive and working together.
19:07.99
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that. I think that’s neat. What about um do-overs? Is there a situation that you kind of look back on now and you’re like, oh gosh, you don’t necessarily have to regret it, but is there a way, is there a situation you can think of that you’re like, I would totally do that differently if I could do it again, knowing what I know now.
19:28.74
Saly Fayez
Knowing what I know now, um, I would say being loyal to the wrong people, um, tough lesson to learn, but, um, but I learned it maybe too late in the game with, you know, kind of further into my career, but definitely loyalty to the wrong people.
19:44.76
Lorie Jones
and And what does that look like or how would you have how would you have handled the situation a little differently?
19:51.80
Saly Fayez
You know, for me personally, I, I value loyalty. Um, And I think working in an environment like this, I learned not everyone in the workplace necessarily operates that way.
20:02.82
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
20:03.35
Saly Fayez
Some people will take what you give them and then they won’t have your back in return. And I say that carefully because loyalty, again, is one of my core values, but I learned the hard way that, that they’re not going to have your back. Some people are going to smile on your face and undermine you the moment you turn around. Some will take what you give your time, your trust, your energy,
20:24.31
Saly Fayez
And it’s a painful lesson, especially when for me, I lead with my whole heart. You know, but what I learned is to pay attention to who shows up in the difficult moments, right?
20:35.60
Saly Fayez
Not just the good ones. And I think that tells you everything.
20:36.99
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
20:40.79
Saly Fayez
Pay attention to who shows up when it’s hard, because that’s your circle. And protecting your energy and your integrity isn’t selfish.
20:44.95
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
20:48.43
Saly Fayez
And so Because this is such an empathetic career choice, you always try to give everybody the credit of you know the benefit of the doubt. But that can also hurt you when you do that.
20:59.14
Saly Fayez
And so that’s kind of what I wish I had learned early on in my career, that being professional doesn’t necessarily always mean you have to be loyal because you can get burned.
21:10.60
Saly Fayez
um and And it’s a lesson and it’s a hard lesson, but… But it’s a lesson that not only have i learned, um but I actually, it’s a good lesson, if that makes sense, because my circle very small now in the workplace. You know, when you are, and I tell people this all the time, when you are 25 and in your career, i think you value what a work friend is differently than when you’re where I’m at now at 51.
21:41.37
Saly Fayez
you know at the beginning you want camaraderie, you know, you want people to go out with, grab drinks with, maybe complain about work a little bit, someone to get through the day, you know, nowadays it’s send memes to or TikTok videos.
21:41.31
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
21:52.29
Saly Fayez
Um, but as you get older and as, and for me, as you’ve seen the things that we’ve seen, you know, we, we sit and work homicide cases and sexual assault cases, really tough, tough cases.
22:03.02
Saly Fayez
And to me, um, you realize you want something deeper in the workplace, both professionally and personally, you know, you want people that are going to be honest with you, even when it’s really uncomfortable to hear, people that have your back, like I said earlier, when you’re not in the room.
22:14.01
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
22:17.69
Saly Fayez
um and you know, I, I read a quote and I always read quotes all the time, a big quote person, but it’s, um, you know, stick with people that defend you when you’re not in the room. And I think that that’s huge because people who are generally rooting for you,
22:32.76
Saly Fayez
um are the most important people to keep you sane and keep you grounded.
22:39.07
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that. i i I think that’s a really valid and important point to to stick with people who defend you even when you’re not there. um i’ve I’ve heard a question asked before, I can’t remember on what, but something about what do you want people to say about you when you when you’re not in the room? Like, what do you want them to to to talk? And that was that’s really, it’s an interesting question um of how you want to be perceived when you’re not there.
23:06.82
Saly Fayez
It is, you know, and again, personally, I know this, I’m not everyone’s cup of tea and that’s okay.
23:11.40
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
23:12.38
Saly Fayez
um But I think the people that, the people that are in my life that have stayed in my life are people that, that know who I am.
23:23.42
Saly Fayez
um And they generally believe that I come from a good place. And, and that’s what I want, you know, and and what I now know is,
23:35.13
Saly Fayez
For me personally, in this career, you know if you’re doing what you generally believe is right, I just feel that’s enough. And not every opinion about that deserves my energy at this point.
23:46.13
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. Yeah, because I was just gonna I was just thinking about well, how do you how do you decide, like where to put your energy? Is it just is it after you’ve been burned that you figure out that hey, I don’t I that’s not where I want to put my loyalty or energy? Or how do you do that?
24:06.81
Saly Fayez
I mean, I think it depends on the individual. For me personally, I think it’s just, it’s, you forget, you know, and I’m guilty of that too. Like I’m guilty of saying, be careful who I’m loyal to, and then I’ll make the mistake again.
24:18.22
Saly Fayez
Right.
24:18.49
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
24:18.58
Saly Fayez
And I’ll be loyal to somebody else. I probably shouldn’t. But I do believe it. I don’t know. And I don’t know how old you are. Like for me, like I’m again, like I’m 51 and there’s something truly, truly sincere when people say like, once you’re in your fifties, the game changes as far as I truly am okay that there are people I know don’t have my back and I’m okay being careful with people now.
24:44.98
Saly Fayez
And I think that unfortunately or fortunately, i have learned that the majority of people don’t have your back. not and ah I’m not talking about personally, I’m talking about in a professional manner because so when you do find those people that do hold on tight, like hold on tight because
24:56.45
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh.
25:05.21
Saly Fayez
Like for me, I just, I’ve always valued it. I got it from my parents, you know, maybe I’m loyal too much to people, you know, because when you’re in my life, I’m going to, I’m going to fight for you no matter if you’re in the room or not.
25:18.97
Saly Fayez
ah But I’m pretty sure even at 51, I will make this mistake again. But I think I will make it less than I have in the past, if that makes sense.
25:29.65
Lorie Jones
That makes sense. So just as you, as you get used to it and you see the signs, you’re, you’re better and better at putting um all of your, more of your energy to those places and people that return that loyalty and, and okay, that’s, I like that.
25:42.65
Saly Fayez
Yes, 100%. hundred
25:46.51
Lorie Jones
I think that’s an interesting, it’s interesting way of looking at things and it, it feels authentic to me. So what about if you could go back and high five yourself for one great past financial decision.
26:01.11
Lorie Jones
What would that be?
26:02.62
Saly Fayez
staying, staying here. Um, and i I’ll say why, and I know that’s not, that’s not a normal answer to the question, but, um, you know, again, being here for 23 years, I’m in law enforcement. Right. And so there were definitely times I wanted to leave. Um, the work was stressful, um, the burnout, the frustration, there’s times where I felt undervalued. Um, and when walking away at the time just felt like the only sane option, um,
26:32.86
Saly Fayez
I think that we all are lying to ourselves in any career, unless it’s just the most perfect job ever, that you didn’t have those kind of days or those kind of moments. But I didn’t leave.
26:41.16
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
26:42.30
Saly Fayez
And, you know, there were times where I looked for other jobs. I applied. I interviewed for other jobs. um But knowing that I have stayed here through the hard seasons, through the doubt, you know, through finding out people aren’t necessarily loyal is something that I am generally proud of because, you know, 25 years in public service, 23 here are,
27:02.90
Saly Fayez
you know, means a retirement package that’s going to reward the longevity of it all. And so that to me is what’s most important, the longevity and the financial piece that I know that I can retire knowing that I stayed the long haul. And that to me is ah the best financial decision I could have made because it would have been easy for me just to leave. You know, it wasn’t, you know, I was offered positions, but then I had to sit back and say, you know, take, take your anger, take your frustration, take your stress out of it. Um, you know, and what staying here really gave me was just to the chance to see that, um, that things do work out.
27:43.29
Saly Fayez
Um, and the chance to continue to see that I can build something that has lasted and then hopefully will continue to last.
27:43.69
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
27:50.35
Saly Fayez
Um, and I wouldn’t have been able to do that if I left here or left anywhere every time that it got hard. So that discipline, For me, you know choosing a long game over like the easy exit from here has you know as a compounding value.
28:04.07
Saly Fayez
You know you can’t build anything meaningful if you leave every time it gets hard.
28:08.02
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. and and And that probably flows through to other areas of your life too, relationships and career, obviously.
28:17.79
Saly Fayez
Yeah.
28:18.94
Lorie Jones
But you know like that there are other places where you can take that same value and say, finance, for one. Am I sticking with it, even though it’s hard during these lean years where we’ve got kids that need braces and also of that sort of thing?
28:35.28
Lorie Jones
like Are we still sticking with our plan? so I like that.
28:37.98
Saly Fayez
Trust me. i I look at Instagram and I see people that are like, I gave up my such and such job. And now I live in you know Mexico and I’m like, God, I wish. but But in order for me to afford to do that, i have to i have to I have to finish what I started.
28:53.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that.
28:53.46
Saly Fayez
Because I also feel that I, not only was that a financially secure decision for me, but I also think um it’s also allowed me to see, you know, the the statement we hear all the time, what doesn’t kill you does make you stronger.
29:08.89
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
29:09.59
Saly Fayez
And so the battle, the battle wounds, all of that to me means that I, that I, that I’m pretty, so that I’m a strong female and that I can survive it and other people can too.
29:20.12
Lorie Jones
And passing that along to that strength as as you’ve reached this latter half of your career where you can pass and develop and grow that in someone else, that resilience and that stick-to-itiveness.
29:23.23
Saly Fayez
Yeah.
29:34.27
Saly Fayez
Yeah.
29:36.34
Lorie Jones
um What scared you the most when you started your career? And does it still?
29:42.83
Saly Fayez
Um, I would say, you know, early on it was probably the fear of not being enough. Um, you’re sitting with these people on the worst days of their life and you can’t fix it. Um, and that’s a hard reality. You feel like everyone always feels like they have to fix something and you have to say something and that it’s okay just to sit there and listen. i don’t have to have a solution to everything.
30:03.64
Saly Fayez
you know, so I’m not there necessarily to fix it. I learned that I was there to witness it. Um, I was there to be a steady presence for them.
30:14.94
Saly Fayez
And sometimes that is just what they need is is an ear. Is a person just sitting next to them and saying nothing? And of course, you know there’s there’s been hard seasons in this career where, like I said in the earlier question, I wanted to give up. you know Feeling unseen where I questioned it, things like that. but And i think I think it’s a disservice to pretend that they aren’t, but resilience to me isn’t the absence of those feelings. It’s what you do with them.
30:44.76
Saly Fayez
And so for me now, fear looks different. um Fear now for me, isn’t necessarily of being enough. It’s the fear now is 23 years later. It’s the weight of my responsibility at a systems level.
31:03.85
Saly Fayez
If that makes sense, you know, making sure that what I have continued to build actually works and actually is sustainable. And so I feel like that’s a healthy evolution for me from when I first started.
31:18.42
Lorie Jones
it’s It’s so interesting to me because I, you know, I interview a lot of different women over a lot of different professions. And sometimes, um you know, i get answers that are like, well, it’s not life and death.
31:30.38
Lorie Jones
You know, like you you just got to let it go and it’s not life and death. But there are other professions where it actually you are dealing with things that are life and death, you know, that are that are really weighty and really heavy and really
31:39.87
Saly Fayez
Yeah.
31:44.54
Lorie Jones
important. and and like we wouldn’t even and And you deal with these situations over over and over again. It’s not just like one life or death situation. It’s like it’s it’s several. And you know I think that that it is really important to acknowledge is that you do deal with problems that truly change people’s lives and in ways, good or bad ways, depending. And and that that can be a heavy burden to hold.
32:15.48
Saly Fayez
It can. And, you know, I even tell my folks this, I mean, you know, you worry, you worry that if I didn’t make that phone call to, to a, to a domestic violence, a victim of domestic violence at the right time, um did that cause something else to happen? i mean, you think that way, right? Like, although we tell our own victims that what someone did to you, is it your fault? Um,
32:38.23
Saly Fayez
but you have such a responsibility, but we have such a responsibility on us. And everyone that is in this career, whether it’s here in this department or anywhere across the nation, to be and to be in the field of crime victim advocacy, you know, it’s not for the weak.
32:57.02
Saly Fayez
And you constantly worry, especially like people that have been in in your caseload for years, you worry about them and you want to make sure they’re okay.
33:04.40
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
33:06.53
Saly Fayez
But you know Part of that too is you know your victims have a right to to self-determination. You can give them the information, you can give them the resources, but if they choose, you know domestic violence victims, if they choose to go back to their abuser or because of other reasons, right it’s not easy to leave an abusive situation and and we’re not there to judge it.
33:27.13
Lorie Jones
no
33:28.95
Saly Fayez
We’re there to say, i hope that never happens again, but if it does, we’re going to be there for you because I’m not dealing with the financial burden of it.
33:33.46
Lorie Jones
know
33:36.67
Saly Fayez
I’m not dealing with the immigration issue of it. I’m not dealing um with the guilt, the fear of the pets at home, the children at home, any of that, you know, I’m not, I’m not dealing with if, if my abuser leaves, then I have no groceries on the table for my children.
33:46.72
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
33:52.58
Saly Fayez
And so our job is to say, you know, I, I can’t save people. But I can give them all the tools necessarily and all the help necessary to hopefully get them out of that situation.
34:04.54
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah. that’s ah it’s a It’s a really important distinction, I think, and a really important piece of what you do to remember that that you carry heavy burdens and that you you can’t change other people’s free will and you wouldn’t want to.
34:23.41
Saly Fayez
No, no, no, of course not.
34:23.90
Lorie Jones
um
34:25.56
Saly Fayez
Absolutely.
34:26.52
Lorie Jones
But it’s it’s hard to live with the consequences of that sometimes.
34:29.85
Saly Fayez
Yes.
34:31.38
Lorie Jones
what about um What about any unique challenges as you went through your career because you were a woman? Did you face any of those?
34:39.30
Saly Fayez
No, no.
34:40.10
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
34:41.46
Saly Fayez
Um, absolutely. I mean, I’m in a male dominated space, you know, law enforcement is a male dominated space and, um, you know, and,
34:51.77
Saly Fayez
people roll their eyes at this, but it’s the reality that women are often interpreted differently. you know, passion gets labeled as emotional confidence gets labeled as difficult. Um, directness gets labeled as aggressive. And, um, and I see this a lot that confidence in a man is respected, but sometimes in a woman it’s questioned. Um, and what I’ve told myself is you show up anyway. Um,
35:19.81
Saly Fayez
I’m a subject matter expert in my field, but even now till today, I walk into rooms where I’m not always wanted. Um, and that’s where your confidence has to show up. You know, when you know your mission, your mission and your work, you know, when you know it, you don’t just deserve, like I truly believe I don’t just deserve a seat at that table. Um, I should be leading a lot of those conversations. And so I stopped asking for permission a long time ago. And, um,
35:49.53
Saly Fayez
And I think that’s just worth naming it. I think it’s worth being honest about it. And, um, after 25 years in this field, like I said, you know, of course you want to hope and think that people look at me and say, you know, and respect me for who I am. But, um, I said this earlier too.
36:09.51
Saly Fayez
Um, I’m not everyone’s cup of tea. There’s people that don’t want me at the table. One, maybe cause they don’t want to hear what I have to say um, um I think also, you know, women in leadership positions, you know, we have to navigate assumptions that some of the men don’t have to face.
36:25.44
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
36:27.10
Saly Fayez
And so, um but I’ll say this again, because this is, this is what I’ve learned. And again, it wasn’t learned overnight. Trust me. um Your confidence has to show up for you.
36:39.48
Saly Fayez
And I’ve made peace with that. And when you know your mission and you know your people, you just should be the one leading the conversation. And so I just stopped apologizing for how I lead and and my gender shouldn’t play a role in anything as far as the respect that I feel that I deserve.
37:02.60
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Is there any particular way that you kind of show that confidence or is it just you’ve stopped apologizing for it now?
37:15.47
Saly Fayez
Stopped apologizing for it because I think again, I think 23 years somewhere, anywhere, whether you’re in law enforcement, whether you’re working at a hospital, doesn’t matter, you’re a teacher, whatever you do, you’ve kind of earned it.
37:31.96
Saly Fayez
You’ve earned the confidence.
37:31.92
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
37:32.88
Saly Fayez
And so I’ve just stopped apologizing for it because at the end of my day, i go home and in the car, I’ll ask myself, you know,
37:48.12
Saly Fayez
Do I, did I show up for the people that I’m supposed to show up for? And the people that I’m supposed to show up for are our victims, our survivors, our family members, um, and my team.
38:00.21
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
38:00.47
Saly Fayez
And my team expands far beyond just the victim services.
38:00.49
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
38:03.59
Saly Fayez
You know, for me, my team also expands into detectives because while I may not supervise them directly, for us to make trainings and bring trainings for detectives that ultimately is helping our victims.
38:16.85
Saly Fayez
So. I’ve just learned and and, you know, and I walk in and maybe I walk in with a power suit and my hair up in a bun. I don’t know. Maybe that’s how I deal with it. But I just, again, I just, I stopped, I stopped apologizing.
38:30.26
Saly Fayez
it i stopped explaining myself. And I know, i know my worth, I guess is is what I’ve learned.
38:36.92
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
38:37.13
Saly Fayez
And I’m proud of that. And it’s taken years.
38:38.68
Lorie Jones
yeah
38:39.46
Saly Fayez
Trust me, this isn’t like, oh, I woke up this way. um It’s taken years. It’s taken blood, sweat and tears. It’s taken, Um, it’s taken people that have, and women face this a lot, right? Like people talking or gossiping or making up things about you. Um, because how could she have gotten where she is if this didn’t happen? Um, but that’s all noise. And so.
39:02.26
Saly Fayez
Someone told me a long time ago, one of my best friends from from college, and I’ll never forget this, and we were in college. And it was probably the, I know this sounds really weird, but I think it was the first time that like, I think someone didn’t like me just for me. I didn’t even really know the person. And that bothered me. And I’m like, well, I didn’t do anything to her. And I’ll never forget my friend I’m still friends with until this day was like, Sally, sometimes people just aren’t going to like you.
39:24.50
Saly Fayez
You didn’t necessarily do anything to them. They’re just not going to like you. And i I had to just say, you’re right. You know, there are times where people are going to think differently or think the worst. And I can’t do anything for you when it comes to that other than just continue to be who I am.
39:39.99
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. I still am learning that lesson. i i’ve i feel like I’m a nice person. People should like me. But you’re right. There are people out there that just, I’m not their cup of tea.
39:54.49
Lorie Jones
It’s just, that’s just the way it is. And I have to, I have to make peace with that. I’m getting better at it. It’s hard.
40:01.25
Saly Fayez
And I’ve also learned that, you know, a lot of times people’s issues with me are actually issues within themselves. And, and that’s, that’s, that’s a huge thing to remember.
40:12.93
Saly Fayez
And, you know, the same friend also told me, you know, and this is how she looks at things, because she’s probably one of the most confident people I know. she said, um what did she say to me? She said, if you should be flattered if people are talking about you behind your back.
40:27.78
Saly Fayez
And I go, how is that flattery? And she goes, because you’re not thinking about them. So for them to take, like for you to take up space in their head where they’re talking about you, you should be flattered.
40:38.02
Saly Fayez
I go, and so I’m like, okay. You know, so sometimes I try to, I try to like channel her energy into my brain.
40:44.76
Lorie Jones
ah Yeah, that way. She sounds like a smart friend.
40:47.00
Saly Fayez
Oh yeah. One of the most, one of the most for sure.
40:50.81
Lorie Jones
Sally, what are you the most proud of as you look back over your journey?
40:55.45
Saly Fayez
I’m proud of my team. So I’m proud of the people and the culture that I’ve built here. um I’ve watched advocates come in really unsure of themselves when they first start out and they’ve grown into such strong, confident leaders. And honestly, there’s nothing more rewarding than that. Like I said, I, you know, I had someone that worked with me and for me and, she started off as an intern.
41:24.98
Saly Fayez
um I didn’t even think that was going to hire her when she put in for the position and she blew it away, the interview and I hired her. And 10 years later, she’s now the new me, right?
41:35.46
Saly Fayez
Like she’s now somewhere else starting her own team. And so all those difficult chapters that tested me personally and professionally clarified who I am and and what’s important to me.
41:38.52
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
41:48.50
Saly Fayez
And so I believe, you know, on top of that, what I’m most proud of as a result of all of that is, um, I chose courage over comfort. Like Renee Brown says, I chose courage over comfort, not perfectly, trust me, um, but consistently, and I have led and continue to lead in a way, um, that is authentically mine and not everyone agrees with how I lead. And that’s okay. Because,
42:19.51
Saly Fayez
I don’t think this mission working with crime victims is necessarily people don’t care about the consensus of it all. What matters is that we’re showing up and my team is showing up and that’s what we do every single day.
42:30.58
Saly Fayez
And so I would say the people in the culture without a question.
42:35.42
Lorie Jones
I love that. i I think that it shows um a lot about a person when the thing that they’re most proud of is their contribution to like someone else, helping somebody else rise.
42:49.77
Lorie Jones
You know what I’m saying? Like their team.
42:51.88
Saly Fayez
I I do. Because, yeah, sorry.
42:52.55
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
42:54.88
Saly Fayez
Yeah, because, you know, in this field and other fields, you know, leadership isn’t about title or tenure. um I believe, like you just said, it’s about the, it’s about whether the people around you, around me are growing, whether our victims and survivors are being served and and whether the work, my work outlasts me. And so that to me is is truly, I don’t think there’s anything more rewarding than that.
43:21.69
Saly Fayez
is to see that growth and to see watching people that came in doubting themselves, find their footing, develop their own voice and to go on and continue to just become great at what they do.
43:38.01
Lorie Jones
So any advice, Sally, for a young lady who’s kind of just starting down this path that you were put on so many years ago and you’re so successful at now, any any advice to help her be successful like you?
43:51.27
Saly Fayez
I have lots of advice, but I will keep it to a minimum.
43:52.57
Lorie Jones
Okay.
43:55.51
Saly Fayez
um The first thing I would say is don’t shrink to fit a mold that wasn’t built for you. um You should not, not should not, you don’t need permission to take up space that you’ve earned. um The work that you decide to do, whatever it is,
44:15.22
Saly Fayez
Um, it needs you and easier for you, your full voice, your instincts, your perspective, your smarts and, uh, mentorship is huge. Find mentors who will tell you the truth.
44:26.26
Saly Fayez
Um, especially on the hard days, you know, I don’t, I don’t want to hear all the good stuff all the time. i want the constructive criticism and, and, and take constructive criticism. You know, when you get constructive criticism, you can even take, you either take away from that, that it was constructive or that it was criticism. Um, and.
44:45.21
Saly Fayez
take it as you’re being, you’re being told something to try to make you better at what you do. Um, I say this cause this is my thing all the time. And I’ve said this probably 17 times in this podcast alone, but you will never be everyone’s cup of tea.
44:59.90
Saly Fayez
Um, I don’t think that’s a flaw. Um, I think it’s a sign that you’re leading with conviction and my last thing would probably, well, two things I would say, um, protect your energy.
45:14.33
Saly Fayez
and be intentional of like who you are and who you invest in. And the last thing, um the last thing is, is don’t seek revenge on things. You know, I’ve learned that rotten fruit, someone told me this the other rotten fruits fall on its own.
45:27.83
Saly Fayez
So you continue to be who you are and let the other stuff go where it may.
45:34.81
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that. It takes too much, way too much energy to hold grudges and fight and all that sort of thing.
45:39.03
Saly Fayez
Yes.
45:41.15
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you, Sally, so much for your insight and for just the time that you’ve spent with us.
45:46.07
Saly Fayez
Absolutely.
45:47.44
Lorie Jones
I really appreciate it. If I have a young lady who wants to pick your brain or ask some questions, how does she get in touch with you?
45:53.40
Saly Fayez
um Email me. My first name, S-A-L-Y period or dot and Fayez, F-A-Y-E-Z at Fairfax County spelled out dot G-O-V.
46:05.18
Lorie Jones
Perfect. Well, thank you so much. I really have appreciated this and I’ve learned a lot.
46:09.91
Saly Fayez
Thank you. And thanks for having me. I love what you’re doing. So thank you.