In this week’s episode, Lorie Jones is spotlighting Barbara Pawar, managing director at Avanade, known for her remarkable career pivots and intentional approach to building success.
Barbara shares why real human connection is becoming even more valuable in today’s AI-driven world, offering practical networking strategies for professional women who want their relationships to propel both business and personal growth. She opens up about her decision to leave politics for business, the lessons learned from charting her own course, and the game-changing impact of finding the right partner—professionally and
personally.
The episode explores how women can champion each other in the workplace, serve as catalysts for change, and actively shape their own leadership journeys. Filled with relatable stories and actionable insights, this conversation will inspire you if you’re ready to own your next move.
Show Highlights:
- Making big pivots at the top, at the right time. [06:04]
- What’s the role of political values in our comfort in a career? [10:19]
- Why the right life partner will help shape your career. [17:59]
- Assessing the motive behind advice, the advisor, and your situation. [24:57]
- The critical importance of networking as professional women. [31:55]
- Lessons from Amazon’s Women’s Advocacy Circle from its co-founder. [34:23]
- The value of fostering top performers when leading teams. [40:39]
- Advice to participate in investment and saving vehicles early. [45:19]
- Ensuring that you network with men, and icebreaker ideas. [48:09]
- How can step-parenting make you a better executive? [52:17]
- The critical need for stronger collaboration in the age of AI. [57:01]
To connect with Barbara Pawar on LinkedIn, go to https://www.linkedin.com/in/barbaramerolapawar/.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:02.04
Lorie Jones
Good morning, fearless females. So today we are here with Barbara melo Marola Pavar. She is the managing director of Avanade. And I am so excited. I had the chance to chat with Barbara a couple of weeks ago, and I’m really excited for you to share your story. So thank you so much for joining us.
00:19.42
Barbara Pawar
Thanks so much for having me, Laurie. I’m really excited to be here.
00:23.48
Lorie Jones
So my first question is always the same. I’m a reader. i love reading. What is your favorite book?
00:30.74
Barbara Pawar
I love reading as well. my favorite book is a Tree Grows in Brooklyn. And it’s my favorite book because Growing up, I loved going to my grandmother’s house in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, and she was the second youngest of 14, and her older siblings all were born in Italy or on the trip over to New York. And so her and her younger brother were born in New York, and so reading that book,
01:04.41
Barbara Pawar
and Francie Nolan, the protagonist, is a very similar age to my grandmother. And it just makes me think of her. And even though I only had my grandmother for a very short time in my life before she passed, that book just reminds me of listening to stories that my grandmother told and learning a little bit about old New York and different stories from immigrant families and those that you may not see portrayed like in books like The Great Gatsby.
01:39.93
Barbara Pawar
So it’s a really great story and I reread it every few years.
01:46.33
Lorie Jones
Oh, do you? i love I love this story. I just lot love the thought of that that plucky little tree kind of growing up in the middle of this cement world, right?
01:59.48
Barbara Pawar
Exactly. And it really is a ah nice metaphor for the girl, Francie, who just came of age during the book and all of the things that she learned and grew and a tree that you don’t really see a lot of in the city, especially then. um It was it just a great metaphor and a great book.
02:23.96
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that one. I’m glad you suggested it. i It bears rereading, I think. so
02:29.82
Barbara Pawar
Agree.
02:31.54
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about your journey, Barbara. Tell me kind of how you got started. When you when did you know what you wanted to do? Did you know really young or did it take a while to get there? Kind of where you’re at now and what you’re doing. Just tell us a little bit about you.
02:49.40
Barbara Pawar
And I think I’m very similar to most people that when I was younger, I thought I had figured out and that I knew what my career journey was and my passions changed.
03:03.06
Barbara Pawar
When i was a lot younger, I wanted to be an accountant and I loved numbers and systems and processes. My parents were accountants. It was just exciting and interesting to me. And I also had a passion for politics and I really loved politics and I volunteered on political campaigns and i interned for my congressman and my state representative and I did this in high school and college and then when I got to college in the middle of my freshman year I realized politics really is a passion for me and I should focus on this as my major and as my career and i studied political science I worked in the White House
03:53.98
Barbara Pawar
I worked as a lobbyist and in political campaigns. And then after nine years of doing that in DC, I realized this isn’t something that I want to do for the rest of my life.
04:07.13
Barbara Pawar
It was a career that was extremely rewarding, but very focused on living in DC. And I knew that my life may take me to other cities and I wanted a career that was easily transferable.
04:21.11
Barbara Pawar
And it’s very easy to get disillusioned with politics, no matter what party you’re part of. And I really wanted to work in business and I really loved sales and I wanted to see if I could be a seller and and try sales.
04:39.68
Barbara Pawar
And so nine years into my career, I completely changed careers and went to Bloomberg and
04:47.29
Lorie Jones
Okay.
04:48.44
Barbara Pawar
and They took a chance on me. There was a new product that was selling proprietary cleanse data to lobbyists and people that are influencing government and selling to government.
05:05.08
Barbara Pawar
And so that was a perfect natural fit for me because I had a strong network to sell to. And it was a really exciting time in the business and our economy.
05:17.56
Barbara Pawar
This was, I think in 2010, maybe, um or even earlier.
05:23.34
Lorie Jones
Yeah,
05:25.14
Barbara Pawar
And so it was a great time to start a new career. And I never looked back.
05:33.30
Lorie Jones
yeah that is interesting that, first of all, I haven’t met very many people who were like, yes, accounting sounds exciting and I love the numbers.
05:45.11
Barbara Pawar
I know.
05:45.14
Lorie Jones
Like, yeah.
05:45.39
Barbara Pawar
It was so funny in high school. i I think because it was what I knew and my parents were accountants and they had such a passion for it.
05:56.34
Barbara Pawar
And I liked… both sides balancing and it was logic and it was a process and there was a right or wrong.
06:07.06
Barbara Pawar
And I really liked when I would overhear my dad talking to clients and they would talk about their business problems and get advice. And I just found that so interesting. um But then I quickly realized, you know, maybe i don’t want to make a career of it.
06:26.68
Lorie Jones
Yeah, it’s it’s nice and fun sometimes. But yeah, I know i I do love numbers and I love all those things that you’re talking about. So the the idea of of finance is exciting to me. And I love that someone else thought it was exciting to at one point. Maybe not full-time career forever, but but it is kind of fun. and then so And then you went into politics for a little while, but it sounds like…
06:52.66
Lorie Jones
um you made a ah real conscious decision to make a career pivot ah at that point. Like, um was there any, were you just bored with it? Was there any underlying like reason that you were feeling called in one direction rather than the other?
07:12.09
Barbara Pawar
Yeah, I think it was two things. One, having a career that was transferable to other cities, because when you work in politics, it’s very focused on living in D.C. and working in D.C.
07:26.20
Barbara Pawar
And I loved living and working in D.C. I did it for nine years, but I wanted to expand and move to New York. I knew that eventually i was going to probably live in a different city.
07:39.64
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
07:39.86
Barbara Pawar
And so I needed a career that was going to enable me to do that. And then also i i wasn’t bored with politics. I think there’s always something interesting and new going on, but I got disillusioned and i felt like no matter what party you’re part of, if you don’t have that passion for it anymore, and it’s not something that feels like,
08:10.95
Barbara Pawar
you’re giving back and you don’t feel connected to it, then it’s hard to really make a difference.
08:18.77
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
08:18.81
Barbara Pawar
And so i i found it challenging in that way. And I commend people that dedicate their lives to working in politics, because it really is a hard career trajectory. It’s a lot of work and it’s very rewarding, but I wanted something, like I said, transferable and something that I could feel like wasn’t so focused on so many different
08:55.62
Barbara Pawar
personalities and people that are forwarding an agenda that may or may not agree with my agenda. And so that’s what makes it challenging to to work in politics.
09:09.37
Barbara Pawar
And i really wanted to have a career in sales where I can influence outcomes.
09:09.69
Lorie Jones
I can see that.
09:18.53
Barbara Pawar
I can see results of my work. I can make a real contribution to a business. And in politics, especially lobbying, you can make a significant contribution to a business and help lawmakers shape legislation and really educate lawmakers on how bills they’re passing is going to affect their constituents. So it can be extremely rewarding. But you have to make sure that
09:52.28
Barbara Pawar
What you’re lobbying for, the company you’re working for, or the industry you’re working for, is something that you truly believe in And we can’t say 100% of the time that we agree with 100% of what every politician that we come in contact with that we agree with.
10:14.90
Lorie Jones
I think that’s, I think that’s, I think you touched on something really important there. And it’s not just in politics. I don’t think that the fact that you need to align your values need to align with your career and what you’re doing.
10:29.46
Barbara Pawar
Yes, 100%.
10:30.78
Lorie Jones
You know, yeah i I just i I don’t think that is and especially for this, the younger generation coming up, they really need to see that they are making a difference in this world and that they’re they’re doing something that they believe in.
10:31.03
Barbara Pawar
and percent
10:48.83
Lorie Jones
And and I found that more and more people. You know, women that I talk to feel kind of the same way, like, we need to feel like we are giving back, like we are doing something important.
11:01.69
Lorie Jones
um And if we don’t feel like that in our careers, then, then there’s that, that piece of us that wants to find that place where we will make a difference, right?
11:11.45
Barbara Pawar
Exactly. And I will say that making a difference and having a career that aligns with your values doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to find a career where you’re in service to others. There’s many ways to make a difference and align your values to your career. i just learned that my values were that I wanted to make more of an impact on a business. I wanted to sell products and services and really move the needle in growing a business. I wanted to work for people that I really believed in and I was inspired by.
11:58.70
Barbara Pawar
And I saw the power of that working in politics and I’ve worked for so many people that were just so inspiring. And I realized that that’s a value of mine that’s really important And I think it’s also important for younger generations to understand. And, you know, my kids are 19, 17. They’re figuring out what they want to do in their next step. And it’s okay to change careers. It’s okay to change your major.
12:28.79
Barbara Pawar
And I don’t know too many people that haven’t done that. And it’s okay to… figure out what it is that you feel passionate about every morning.
12:43.10
Barbara Pawar
And I know now I’m passionate about making businesses successful because when businesses are successful and they’re making money and they have healthy margins, they’re able to hire, they’re able to invest in their employees.
12:43.21
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
12:59.62
Barbara Pawar
And it helps our economy and it just enables so much of what we do. And that is something that’s really important to me.
13:10.58
Barbara Pawar
And so i think going through that when I was younger enabled me to get to that point and realize that, yes, these are my values and it’s totally okay that those are my values.
13:24.66
Barbara Pawar
Yeah.
13:25.85
Lorie Jones
I love that. I love the way you frame that. I, I’m, I’m just resonating so much with you as I like, am listening to where your passions lay because mine lay in empowering women. and empowering women financially, empowering women to have a voice in their career, empowering women to grow in all different ways. And I found a place that really fits well for me to create that environment. And i I love that you talked about your journey from, you know, something that you wanted
13:56.57
Lorie Jones
really did think politics was like your forever job sort of thing. You really did think that was where you were going to spend the rest of your life. But then finding that things change, you know, along the route and that, and that your, your path lie, lie in a different direction.
14:08.18
Barbara Pawar
Yeah, ah it’s fun and it can be scary, but it’s important to be able to take those calculated risks, especially when you’re younger, if you know it’s going to lead you to a better place and you know you’re going to be happier.
14:11.60
Lorie Jones
And I love that, that sense of change and that sense of purpose. So I think that’s really neat.
14:33.90
Barbara Pawar
And I think that’s really important, especially for women.
14:38.20
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, exactly. um Barbara, what is the best investment you’ve made in yourself? As you kind of look back over your whole journey, is there one thing that you can say, oh my gosh, I’m just, I’m really glad i invested time, money, energy, myself in this in this one thing because it made all the difference?
14:58.98
Barbara Pawar
Yes, if I have to say one thing, my answer is gonna sound very controversial.
15:03.64
Lorie Jones
Okay. Okay.
15:04.12
Barbara Pawar
I would say the most important thing, if a woman wants a partner, and if you want a partner in life, spouse or just a life partner, I think who you choose as your partner is so critically important because you want someone that’s going to help foster your goals, your goals are aligned, they’re going to support you in wanting to grow in your career, if that’s something that you want as a woman.
15:39.93
Barbara Pawar
And so I think if someone, and this goes for men too, if you want a partner, i think the best investment I made is making sure that I found the right partner.
15:55.61
Barbara Pawar
And I’m so grateful for that. I didn’t get married until I was 37. And i think who you choose as a partner can absolutely affect your success in life, financially, in your career.
16:10.26
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
16:12.82
Barbara Pawar
and i think it’s important for women to be empowered financially. And I think it’s really important the work that you’re doing educate women on financial independence, empowerment, because you want to have that regardless of whether you have a partner or not. And it’s important to start that as soon as you start working. i mean, we started um accounts for our kids, so they start their retirement now before they even started working. I think that’s really important.
16:44.60
Barbara Pawar
And all women should have that financial plan and and independence and have that regardless of a partner. But the best investment I made is making sure that I knew that i I wanted to have a partner in life and I chose someone that just really aligns with my goals and helps support me in in my career and I do the same for him. And I think that’s really important and something that we
17:18.33
Barbara Pawar
don’t talk enough about when we’re talking about careers and women elevating in their careers, we don’t talk enough about the importance of, if you want a partner, making sure that you find the right partner because it does affect your success.
17:37.83
Lorie Jones
Yeah, it does. That is, and it’s so interesting, Barbara. I’ve actually have never heard that answer before. And I’ve done like 130 podcasts or something like that. And it really, if you, it doesn’t take more than three seconds to think about it and know that what you said is true. You need somebody who is supporting and helping and understanding and, and pushing a little bit you to be better and do more.
18:07.13
Barbara Pawar
Exactly. Because there’s so many things I think about myself. I like to think that I am a confident independent, successful woman. With that being said, there’s so many things that I’ve learned in my career that has gotten me to this point. So many things that I wish I could have done differently, things that i didn’t know at the time and and wish I did.
18:35.83
Barbara Pawar
And just having someone that has a different perspective sometimes to help give you some guidance, example,
18:47.70
Barbara Pawar
There was a role that I really wanted and it would have been a promotion. it was based in Austin. i live in New York and I wasn’t able to relocate to Austin.
19:04.28
Barbara Pawar
And I was telling my husband about this opportunity that, oh, I really wish that I could go for this promotion. And he said, well, just be upfront, let them know that you’ll travel to Austin every week, but apply and interview for it. But just be upfront about what the limitations are.
19:24.79
Barbara Pawar
So I did, i interviewed. It never would have occurred to me because we always hear the statistic, women do not apply for jobs unless they meet most, if not all of the criteria.
19:40.47
Barbara Pawar
but Once I had that suggestion, i thought, okay, yeah, I’ll just be up front and let them know that I can’t relocate, but I’ll be there every week and apply anyway.
19:51.32
Barbara Pawar
I didn’t get it. They absolutely wanted someone one in Austin. But three months went by, a similar role came up, and I didn’t have to interview for that role because I was already inclined for the previous role, so they didn’t have to re-interview me.
20:09.21
Barbara Pawar
and I was able to get that role, they didn’t even have to post it. And had I not interviewed and applied for that previous role, they would have never known that I was interested. And I would have had to just interview for that next role. Who knows if I would have gotten it.
20:27.16
Barbara Pawar
And so that is just one example of ways that, you know, I learned something from
20:27.25
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
20:37.82
Barbara Pawar
my husband, you know, and i I do the same for him. And we learn a lot of things from each other. And I support him in his career as well. And so I think that’s an important part of being successful because you’re going to stay at a job for a few years, but you’re going have your partner for the rest of your adult life. And so that’s going affect a lot of your success in life.
21:07.40
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And, and where you get and how far you get and and whether you feel supported and And quite frankly, if you’re raising a family, you kind’ of you you need that support in order to to do the things that you do in order to be both ah you know a wife and a mother and ah and a and successful at your career.
21:29.95
Lorie Jones
So i think that’s I think it’s so interesting that I’ve never heard that answer before.
21:30.81
Barbara Pawar
Exactly.
21:34.23
Lorie Jones
And it’s such an obvious answer. i love that. Thank you, Barbara. Yeah. So did you ever get some really bad advice? In fact, what is the worst advice you’ve ever been given? And did you take the advice or not?
21:49.08
Barbara Pawar
And I love this question because it really makes me think because I’ve gotten so much advice over the years and yes,
21:56.72
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
21:58.97
Barbara Pawar
When I was starting out in my career, I was doing a lot of networking and, you know, I was 21, nearly, newly graduated.
22:12.38
Barbara Pawar
i didn’t have an extensive network, but the network that I did have, I was leveraging. People that I met in DC through my internships, people that worked for my university. I went to UCF and UCF employ a lobbying team in DC.
22:32.38
Barbara Pawar
I met with the lobbyists there. I really leveraged the network that I had. And then I also talked to recruiters and recruiters weren’t as common back then because back then you could just apply for a job on the company’s website that you’re interested in and get the role.
22:53.82
Barbara Pawar
If the company posted jobs on their website, If not, there were different listservs that you could use to find out about roles. But I did meet with a recruiter that was posting a number of entry-level jobs.
23:08.79
Barbara Pawar
And I told her that through one of these listservs that i heard about from my network, I was interviewing for a role at the White House.
23:13.48
Lorie Jones
Thank
23:19.99
Barbara Pawar
And I was really excited about it. And I thought she would say, oh that’s great. Good luck. And she said, you don’t want work at the White House.
23:32.40
Barbara Pawar
You’re not going to get any good experience there. They have so many interns and the interns do all the work. You’re not going to learn anything working in the White House. And I was so shocked by this. And I thought, well, how could I not learn anything working in the White House? Like, if anything, it just looks cool on my resume. You know if I don’t learn anything,
23:53.59
Barbara Pawar
It doesn’t matter. I mean, I was 22 at the time. And so I did not take that advice, thankfully, but it absolutely sat with me. I mean, I’m sitting here 22 years later and still remembering this conversation very vividly in her office. And so, yes, sometimes people give advice and it taught me to figure out why the person was giving that advice because I didn’t realize that at the time, because I didn’t understand how recruiting worked.
24:31.06
Barbara Pawar
She wanted me to go on interviews for her clients so she could place me at one of her clients and get a commission and close a deal. So of course, that would be the interest in discouraging me from interviewing at the White House, but I wasn’t curious at the time. i just thought, well, I don’t care. i’m just going to do it anyway. And I’m glad that I did, but it was interesting looking back how bold and confident that advice was.
25:05.02
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s interesting. i I love that you mentioned that you it showed you how to um really look at advice and kind of decide whether that advice was right for you or wrong for you. Be very particular about that, because there are like there’s all sorts of people willing to tell you what they think.
25:26.62
Lorie Jones
um And sometimes it’s not, sometimes it’s very good advice for another person, but maybe not the best advice for you. And I think learning young how to parse out which is advice that you should be taking and which isn’t. And I actually don’t know how to do that. Like, is there a trick? Yeah.
25:47.87
Barbara Pawar
I think it all depends on who is giving the advice because I still get lot of advice even to this day because i seek out coaching and development and I’ve built my network over the years.
26:04.47
Barbara Pawar
And a lot of times, think I notice that, for example, if you are looking for a role, i had a man say to me, a CEO, oh, just wait for someone to call you in your network and you’ll get a job.
26:29.88
Barbara Pawar
And yes, that happens a lot for men. And yes, I could absolutely just sit back and wait for the phone to ring. But in this market and not having that same level experience as the CEO and being a woman where networking is just a little bit more challenging, I knew that that advice was absolutely very good advice.
27:03.35
Barbara Pawar
It just didn’t necessarily apply to me. I was someone that didn’t have as much experience as he did.
27:06.73
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
27:09.66
Barbara Pawar
I didn’t have as big of a network. So I was going to have to be proactive in reaching out to my network versus just waiting for the phone to ring.
27:21.37
Barbara Pawar
And so I think my trick is realizing is the advice that the person is giving me, does it apply to me?
27:21.40
Lorie Jones
yeah
27:33.43
Barbara Pawar
Or is the person speaking from their own experience? And is my experience close enough to that person’s experience? And a lot of times it’s not, you know, because I’m seeking advice from people who are much more successful than me and seasoned.
27:55.03
Barbara Pawar
And so they’re going to have a perspective that is working for them. But I may not be at that place yet. And so there’s things that I may have to do differently.
28:06.73
Barbara Pawar
So that’s the trick that I use before deciding if someone’s advice is relevant.
28:13.04
Lorie Jones
Thank
28:13.85
Barbara Pawar
Because it doesn’t mean that the advice is bad advice. It can be absolutely very good advice. It just may not be something that’s going to work for me because our experiences are so different.
28:27.83
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I find that really insightful. And I think that’s true, is you kind of look through, well, is that i I don’t believe anyone gives advice trying to cause problems or or give you bad advice.
28:43.72
Lorie Jones
i just I have a much rosier picture of the world than that, and prefer to live in that bubble. But I do think that sometimes they they give advice that is good for them and worked for them, but may not work for you.
28:55.93
Lorie Jones
So you have to be really careful.
28:56.54
Barbara Pawar
Exactly.
28:57.94
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
28:58.04
Barbara Pawar
Yeah. And what I meant earlier when I said networking can be a little bit more challenging for women, what I’ve noticed in my career, especially in the last few years, with the job market being so challenging, relying on your network is so critically important.
29:20.54
Barbara Pawar
And with men, what they do so well is they bring people along with them. And a lot of times it’s other talented men that they’ve worked with.
29:35.67
Barbara Pawar
And a lot of male leaders do bring women along, but I’ve just noticed that sometimes it’s easier.
29:37.96
Lorie Jones
you
29:44.58
Barbara Pawar
We have that unconscious bias. When you have a female leader, a lot of times you see a lot of great female leaders on their leadership team.
29:56.54
Barbara Pawar
And I have not had the experience of someone just calling me and saying, Hey, I have a great job for you. I’m going to another company. I’m going to take you with me.
30:10.90
Barbara Pawar
Or, Hey, I’m going to, um start a new role. i think you would be a great fit for it. And so i think women, as we network more, we,
30:26.55
Barbara Pawar
become more senior in companies and take on more C-suite roles. We take on more CEO roles, more board positions. I think that’s naturally going to happen for us as well. we We’ll bring other women along with us. But That is something that I’ve noticed that men do so, so, so well, is that they are very good about taking care of their network and bringing people along with them.
30:58.17
Barbara Pawar
And a lot of times it just happens to be men because those are the leaders that they’ve been working with for so many years.
31:06.92
Lorie Jones
And working with.
31:08.50
Barbara Pawar
Yeah.
31:09.59
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I find that I find that really interesting. it it begs the subject of a um webinar or something like that as to how do you develop these networks where you bring a woman along, you know.
31:25.30
Barbara Pawar
Yeah, and it’s interesting you bring that up because when I was at Amazon, I founded the Women’s Advocacy Circle because there was in our sales organization, which was maybe 300 people, um there weren’t women sales leaders.
31:51.00
Barbara Pawar
And for roles that required certain level of leadership, there was relocation requirements.
32:02.42
Barbara Pawar
And relocation can be harder for women who have a partner that also work. um But if a man has a partner who does not work, then relocation may not be as challenging. So things like that. And I had an amazing leader, this guy, Jeff,
32:24.79
Barbara Pawar
or phenomenal sponsor for women leaders, has promoted many women and a couple of colleagues and I brought this idea to him and he was our founding executive sponsor.
32:38.94
Barbara Pawar
And it was a great opportunity for us to make a few changes. We created a system where anytime a woman interviewed for a role,
32:52.57
Barbara Pawar
She would interview with at least two women, so she wasn’t meeting six men. And we created programs where if there was leadership roles available, we would post them, we would encourage women to apply, and really got clear with what we needed to do to ensure that we have a more diverse leadership team.
33:23.90
Barbara Pawar
And a lot of that was developing skills because you don’t want to promote someone that’s not ready or doesn’t deserve that next level.
33:31.73
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
33:35.41
Barbara Pawar
You want to promote people that really should be at that level and are already operating at that level. And so we wanted to make sure that if there was any gaps in anybody’s skill level, whether male or female, that we’re addressing that. So when these roles do open up, it opens up a lot more professionals that are eligible to apply for those promotions.
34:04.60
Barbara Pawar
And now the Women’s Advocacy Circle, there’s over a thousand members and there’s monthly events. And it’s just really exciting to see the growth of that.
34:17.91
Barbara Pawar
And it started from, and what we put in our business plan was McKinsey study. And they do a study, women in work.
34:28.57
Barbara Pawar
ah And it’s a study that they do every year. And that year, and I believe it was 2021, they talked about how you need to have more women at the frontline leadership level.
34:43.10
Barbara Pawar
If you don’t have enough women at the frontline leadership level, frontline managers, junior managers, they’re not going to have a leadership pipeline for CEO.
34:53.22
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
34:54.10
Barbara Pawar
And so fostering that middle tier of managers and getting women skilled to be able to be competitive, to apply and get those roles is critically important.
35:08.25
Barbara Pawar
And so that’s what we based the business case to start the group was based on that study. And so I think that’s something I think about all the time. Like, yes, we need to have more women on boards and C-suite.
35:25.37
Barbara Pawar
We also need to have more junior leaders in those frontline manager roles so we consistently have a leadership pipeline to promote.
35:36.34
Lorie Jones
And help them teach them the skills that they need, teach them what they’re going to need to to move into those upper levels. Yeah, absolutely. 100%. I love that. And what a difference. That’s kind of neat to to actually look back and say, helped start this group. I helped make a difference in ah thousand women’s lives.
35:55.99
Lorie Jones
How neat. Yeah.
35:57.59
Barbara Pawar
It’s very rewarding, but I didn’t do it a alone.
36:01.27
Lorie Jones
ah Yeah, we we usually do tend to ah work with other really talented people too. So that’s kind of cool.
36:09.91
Barbara Pawar
Yeah, and I’m very grateful to two of my colleagues at the time, Ann Barker and Alexis Cosmar. just called them one day and said, hey, I just woke up thinking of this idea. And we ideated.
36:24.47
Barbara Pawar
They made the idea better. we put a business case together. We went to Jeff and he was all over leading it for us. And I think that’s important is that as women, no matter what we want to do, matter how fearless we may be, we can’t do things alone.
36:40.05
Barbara Pawar
We need to have a network to ask for help and accept that help because there are people that know more than us and can help make whatever idea we have that much better.
36:50.05
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
36:52.99
Barbara Pawar
And I think that’s a big lesson I learned.
36:56.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I love that. That is, and I think it’s an important lesson too, to just that, to ask a lot of times we’re reluctant to ask for the help and just, just asking, just saying, Hey, you probably, can I take you out to coffee?
37:12.26
Lorie Jones
Can I take you out to lunch? Can I just pick your brain a little bit? Um, people are willing, but we have to ask.
37:17.98
Barbara Pawar
They do want to help.
37:19.62
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
37:19.77
Barbara Pawar
Exactly.
37:22.07
Lorie Jones
What about a situation that you can think of along your path where you’re like, oh, if I could go back and do that again, i would do it totally differently. Knowing what I know now, i understand that you’re not going to do things differently if you go back with the same information. But knowing what you know now, is there a situation that you would like to have a do over?
37:42.46
Barbara Pawar
Yeah, I think about that a lot because one thing that I’m proud of is that, and keeps me at peace is that I don’t have any regrets in life, but there are things that learned a lot from and I wish I could have done differently. And I think once I got to a place where I was leading a large sales organization and I was coming in as a new leader,
38:11.29
Barbara Pawar
I think it’s very easy to feed into the pressure that you get from your leadership to move fast, make those changes. And it is important to do that.
38:24.98
Barbara Pawar
But I think it’s even more important to take a step back and really foster the top performers.
38:38.17
Barbara Pawar
And no matter… what your leadership is telling you.
38:43.11
Lorie Jones
Thank
38:46.10
Barbara Pawar
Spend time, whenever you start a new role, find out who those top performers are. And leadership may give you a very different answer than what the data tells you, or different leaders may have a different perspective.
39:03.99
Barbara Pawar
Find out who all of the top performers are and spend time with those people. and get those people on your side and get those people to help you make the changes across the entire organization and have those people really be your leaders.
39:23.34
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
39:28.82
Barbara Pawar
And they don’t need a leadership title to be a leader. The fact that they’re a top performer means that they’re a leader. And I think that’s something that I wish i did differently. The first time I came in,
39:41.02
Barbara Pawar
to leading a large org. And, you know, I felt that pressure to make those changes quickly. i was focused on executing what I was supposed to do and what I was told to do by my leadership team.
39:58.49
Barbara Pawar
And sometimes you can alienate some top performers that really worked hard even before you got there. And so that was a lesson for me and and something I wish that i could do differently. And there were a lot of things that I did to finally figure out, oh, these people are an amazing resource. I’m going to leverage them to help me as being my partner in making these changes. And now when I do,
40:36.09
Barbara Pawar
take on new teams, new orgs, new roles. That’s one of my first things that I do is really work with those top performers and have them understand, hey, I’m here working for you. I want to understand how we can work together to make this business better, not just for you, but for everyone else. And so that’s something that I’ve learned in my career that I now take with me.
41:05.50
Lorie Jones
Yeah, i I love the way you put that because I I have found myself in those positions where I’m new in a position and um I have kind of a ah leadership or ah move the organization forward mandate, but you’ve got to understand what is happening now.
41:27.58
Lorie Jones
And a lot of times the people that are doing the jobs, they’re the ones who know what needs to be done, right? And so if you come in and start making changes, you get a lot of pushback and a lot of friction.
41:38.54
Lorie Jones
But if you partner, yeah it it can really, it can not only move the organization forward and move it forward faster, but it makes everyone who who works in that organization kind of row in the same direction and be on the same page.
41:39.13
Barbara Pawar
Exactly.
41:55.43
Lorie Jones
It’s really, it’s transformational.
41:58.20
Barbara Pawar
Exactly. And you want to make sure when you’re doing these transformations that your top performers stay. And that’s a critical component of the success is if they’re contributing to the business and they’re well liked, they’re good colleagues, you want to retain those people.
42:17.72
Barbara Pawar
And it’s important to have them on your side.
42:24.06
Lorie Jones
Barbara, if you could go back and high five yourself for a really great financial decision in the past, what would that be?
42:31.61
Barbara Pawar
Think investing. and saving early on in my career. i started my 401k as soon as possible and outside of my 401k, started an investment account, brokerage account, and worked with my financial advisor that I’ve had almost 20 years and focused my time and my energy in making sure that I was financially independent so that no matter life throws at me, that I would be able to be okay.
43:15.80
Barbara Pawar
And I’m still carrying that on now and still investing and saving every month.
43:19.71
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
43:24.12
Barbara Pawar
And i think that’s something that’s very important to me. And I actually learned it from the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I read that book in college and realized this makes a lot of sense. This is a great personal finance book that applies no matter what your financial situation is. And so there’s a lot in that book that i i still apply today, including driving a used car.
43:53.34
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah, I know. my I think my dad was the rich dad that taught me that. But I love those.
44:01.72
Barbara Pawar
Exactly. It’s so important.
44:02.64
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. yeah I love that. Well, that’s great. What about any unique challenges as you’re coming up the path? Were there unique challenges because you were a woman?
44:15.03
Barbara Pawar
Yes. I think what we talked about a little bit earlier with the networking, I think, you know, men do a good job of bringing people along.
44:28.28
Barbara Pawar
And i think sometimes it’s just, slightly different for women. We don’t have that same network because a lot of our leaders are not, there’s not as many women CEOs and in the C-suite as there are men, at least there isn’t in technology or professional services or finance, know, where I’ve spent time in my career.
44:54.43
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
44:56.70
Barbara Pawar
And so i think other unique challenges was that There are opportunities, i think, for women to network and come together. And there’s a lot of really organizgan great organizations like Chief or Luminary, where it focuses on women executives supporting each other.
45:21.85
Barbara Pawar
Where I think women need to focus is also making sure that we don’t miss the conversation with men. And so… Since there’s men in decision-making roles and men that are hiring for roles, I think it’s important to continue to build a diverse network, including networking with men.
45:48.70
Barbara Pawar
Because if we are only talking to other women, we are missing a lot of the population and a lot of the leadership network. that we can leverage and a network that we can help.
45:59.23
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
46:03.64
Barbara Pawar
And so I think that’s something that that’s critically important. And a trick that I’ve learned when I’m with men and they’re talking about sports, and if they’re talking about specific teams, I sometimes ask them if they’re from that city And chances are they’re usually from that city if they’re a fan.
46:30.62
Barbara Pawar
And I’ve probably have been to that city. And so I start talking to them about that city and restaurants I like in that city. And that kind of helps change the conversation.
46:41.46
Barbara Pawar
So now we’re talking about restaurants and traveling and no one even noticed that I hijacked the conversation away from sports. And so that’s a trick that I’ve developed over the years.
46:54.75
Barbara Pawar
Um,
46:55.54
Lorie Jones
I love that. I have the worst time.
46:56.79
Barbara Pawar
to just contribute more.
46:59.70
Lorie Jones
i have the worst time even figuring out what’s I, my joke is like, I don’t even know what size ball they play with. Is it like the big ball that bounce on the ground or the little ball that you hit through the, so so I love that idea.
47:12.38
Barbara Pawar
And there’s a lot that I’ve learned over the years, just from my husband, for example. um But I think it’s a a good way to kind of take a conversation that may only two or three people can participate in And now the whole table is participating because everyone can relate to travel or restaurants and food and that kind of thing.
47:42.04
Barbara Pawar
um
47:42.36
Lorie Jones
absolutely.
47:43.96
Barbara Pawar
Other than that, I think it’s important if we’re women, if there’s challenges that we’re facing to
47:56.10
Barbara Pawar
Continually believe that we’re probably not the first that has experienced that. And being able to talk to other women is important.
48:08.60
Barbara Pawar
So that’s why i am grateful for organizations that focus on women executives. But I can’t stress enough the importance of having a diverse all-gender network.
48:23.67
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I like that. And i I like, I mean, just to go back and highlight that the women’s organization that you you helped start at Amazon, the fact is, is that you guys saw a need, you saw some ways that you could make a difference, and you tried to make a difference in that space. I think that i think that it’s important that you you stand up and do something about it. if you know If you see a need, if you see something, you What is it they always tell you? See something, say something, sort it.
48:57.34
Barbara Pawar
Exactly. And it’s so true. And I think if you have data and you have a strong case as to why, and you have supporters in leadership that will help you make it happen, and those with influence that can help propel your ideas, absolutely do it. Because there’s other people that didn’t advance an idea And they will be grateful to you for advancing your idea.
49:31.58
Lorie Jones
What is the thing, Barbara, that you are most proud of?
49:36.89
Barbara Pawar
I think I’m most proud of, and again, this is a non-career answer. um I’ve been a stepmom almost 10 years. And I think I’m most proud of my relationship with my stepkids. I think it can be very challenging to be a step parent, especially when you have a career and you’re trying to develop in your career, but you also want to develop relationships with the little people in your lives that are going to become the most important people in your lives.
50:14.01
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
50:19.42
Barbara Pawar
I think that can be really challenging and I’m just very grateful to them for the grace they’ve given me and then also how open they were to me because there’s a lot of things about being a step parent that apply to being an executive.
50:40.89
Barbara Pawar
And there’s a lot of collaboration. There’s a lot of decisions that are not yours to make because they’re not your biological kids.
50:53.43
Barbara Pawar
And so it is a lot of application to my life as an executive. And there’s so much that I learned in being stepparent. And so um that I think is what I’m most proud of.
51:16.22
Barbara Pawar
And I am grateful for them. And I’m and grateful for how much they’ve taught me And I’ve noticed that it’s definitely helped me in my career and just the skills and being more collaborative and understanding and understanding different perspectives.
51:43.35
Barbara Pawar
And I think that that’s really important.
51:46.94
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that. I like that thought that um some of the skills that you learn in personally, you know, like, um you know, raising kids and and helping them become better human beings, successful human beings, those are some of the same things you take into your career and and one job informs and helps the other.
52:07.35
Barbara Pawar
Yeah.
52:10.71
Barbara Pawar
Exactly. And you’re always learning as a parent or as a step parent. And I think that it’s definitely enabled me to contribute in a way that I never thought that I would before.
52:31.13
Barbara Pawar
oh and it’s just really rewarding.
52:36.22
Lorie Jones
Any advice, Barbara, for a young lady who’s kind of just starting down this path that you’re so successful at to help her be successful like you?
52:45.04
Barbara Pawar
Oh, thank you for that. um Network. I think if I were to say, where have I gotten the most opportunities in life, it’s through networking.
53:03.03
Barbara Pawar
And it’s very easy, no matter what your age, career level, to network. Think about your friends. your friends’ parents, places that you’ve interned, people who work in the alumni office, the career office of where you go to school, the places where you’ve worked in the past.
53:17.59
Lorie Jones
Thank
53:27.93
Barbara Pawar
All those people are part of your network. You should be connecting with those people on LinkedIn and writing a thoughtful connection request, message, um posting.
53:42.33
Barbara Pawar
relevant topics on LinkedIn. All of that is really important in fostering your network and always finding ways to be helpful to people.
53:54.23
Barbara Pawar
If someone asks for help, give that help. There’s so many things that we could do to easily help each other. And my biggest advice for anyone young is network and help each other.
54:11.93
Barbara Pawar
And if I think about where have I found jobs, you know, where has my husband found his jobs, how I met my husband even has all been through networking.
54:26.84
Barbara Pawar
And I think networking is going to become even more critically important as we enter a world of agentic AI and agents and super agents are replicating lot of tasks that used to be more manual or not even replicating, but just completely replacing.
54:48.58
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
54:50.97
Barbara Pawar
And the future of work is going to be much more dynamic for humans. and it’s going to so different. And there’s going to more of a need for collaboration and sharing of ideas to advance technologies. And that’s all going to happen through your network.
55:11.64
Barbara Pawar
and finding those opportunities are gonna be through the people that you know. and so that’s my biggest advice.
55:18.87
Lorie Jones
I love that. Well, thank you so much, Barbara, for spending some time with us and just sharing your your thoughts and your experience. I really have appreciated it. It’s been a great conversation. I promised you it would at the beginning, and it has been a great conversation. So thank you so much.
55:34.36
Barbara Pawar
Thank you so much for having me, Laurie. It was really great talking with you and thank you so much for all you do to help women Become fearless and empower them. We all appreciate the work that you’re doing.
55:46.55
Barbara Pawar
Thanks for having me.
55:48.18
Lorie Jones
no problem um if we if you do have a young lady who wants to reach out to you how does she get in touch with you
55:55.39
Barbara Pawar
LinkedIn, I can be found by my name, Barbara Marola-Pavar on LinkedIn and send me a message and I’m happy to connect.
56:04.95
Lorie Jones
thank you thanks barbara
56:07.42
Barbara Pawar
Thanks, Lori.