This week, Lorie Jones sits down with Jessica Studholme, CRO of Hello Sunshine, for a candid and empowering conversation about embracing obstacles, career pivots, and the power of authenticity.
Jessica shares her journey from dreaming of being a Rockette to climbing the corporate ladder in media and entertainment, emphasizing how every challenge became a stepping stone. The discussion pans lessons learned from mentorship, the art of self-advocacy, and the importance of showing up as your true self in male-dominated industries.
Whether you’re charting your own course, facing the messy middle, or just need a reminder to take a fearless first step, this episode will inspire you to see obstacles not as roadblocks, but as the pathway to growth and greatness. Let the journey begin!
Show Highlights:
- Reframing obstacles as the path rather than what’s in its way. [04:25]
- The power of mentorship and networking in career transitions. [11:41]
- How work–life integration can inform and enrich leadership. [15:23]
- Engaging in the “ugly work” of self-discovery with a coach. [17:19]
- Should you change who you are for a job or be masculine in business? [24:10]
- Listening to your gut and leaving earlier for your next chapter. [28:37]
- Pivotal question to ask yourself to negotiate your worth. [32:26]
- How to find everyday fearlessness in the messy middle. [39:30]
- Facing bias due to gender and motherhood in the workplace. [46:02]
- Modeling ambition for kids with lessons from Jessica’s mom. [49:53]
- Why young women must network and embrace “burnt toast.” [54:19]
Find Jessica Studholme on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-jones-studholme-7b57b94/.
You can also contact her via email at jessicajstudholme@gmail.com.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:00.95
Lorie Jones
Good morning, Fearless Females. So today we are here with Jessica Studholm. She is CRO of Hello Sunshine, and I’m so excited to get to chat with you, Jessica. Thank you so much for taking the time with us today.
00:12.98
jessica
um Thank you for having me. i’m such I’m so honored to be here with you.
00:16.89
Lorie Jones
So um you told me that you go by JJ or Jessica Jones. So so i’m i love that.
00:25.34
jessica
ah yeah.
00:26.01
Lorie Jones
i might use that. My son is actually Joshua Jones. And so he goes by JJ or J squared too. So I think that’s great.
00:32.47
jessica
I love it. Well, I fell in love with your site the minute that I saw it because it was all of these gorgeous like imagery of like superheroes. And my joke all the time is Marvel made a program about Jessica Jones, right, a couple of couple of years ago. And I was always like, God, I want to be that version of Jessica Jones.
00:51.80
Lorie Jones
Yeah, powerful, amazing. Exactly. You probably already are that version.
00:54.14
jessica
Yes.
00:56.08
Lorie Jones
You just don’t know it.
00:59.04
jessica
Let’s hope, right?
01:02.04
Lorie Jones
So sorry. Well, my first question is always my favorite. um And it is what is your favorite book?
01:09.27
jessica
I love this question. I love this question for so many reasons, partly because I spent last Saturday in Pasadena at this female authors festival and reading is a huge, huge part of my life. And I could give you a million fictional books that I love, but I felt like the better choice for this podcast is a book that I read and I go back to frequently and it’s called The Obstacle is the Way and it’s by Ryan Holiday.
01:36.31
jessica
and The thing that i love about this book so much is the idea that the obstacle isn’t something that’s in your path, it’s the path itself. And it has shown up in so many different moments of my life. um i started i started my career in very traditional media and between industry disruption, between becoming a mom, between dealing with a lot of unexpected, um i would say, stops on that journey to becoming a mom and navigating life, there were so many obstacles in the way. And looking back, I realized that those were part of shaping my life and shaping my path. um
02:22.74
jessica
And it just resonates with me so good, so so strongly. I’ll pause there for a second.
02:29.40
Lorie Jones
I love that. And you know what? I was just thinking the other day as i um I came up kind of through the operations piece. And so I’ve done just about every job you could do inside of financial services. Like I i have. I will say that I probably have done every job you can do at least once.
02:46.01
Lorie Jones
And um as i as I opened up my own ah firm under my own brand, i was sitting one day doing um some operations work on the backside.
02:46.11
jessica
Bye.
02:56.87
Lorie Jones
And i i was i i will i kid you not, Jessica, I almost cried. i was like, my whole career, my whole life has prepared me for this moment.
03:08.15
Lorie Jones
Like I’m sitting here doing this stuff that I have done four or five times. I know I’m doing a good job at it. I know I’m well prepared for this next step in my life.
03:19.05
Lorie Jones
And it’s because i had those, those, you know, ups and downs through my career, those, those hard things, those bumps in the road, those obstacles. And, and it’s brought me to where I am today.
03:29.46
jessica
Oh, yeah.
03:32.01
Lorie Jones
And I am so happy that, that this is where I am. i i could almost cry. And I love that that book is your suggestion.
03:41.49
jessica
Oh, well, i they’re my favorite chapter in the whole book is prepare for none of it to work. And I say it to myself all day, every day. um i love how you said that in terms of all of these chapters prepared you for that moment.
03:53.41
Lorie Jones
Thank
03:56.28
jessica
I feel like the darkest hours are the ones where you find this well of courage and this well of strength that you never knew existed. And I tell my children that all the time, like these moments in life are the ones that ultimately shape you. And you will look back, even though I know it’s so hard to do it in the moment, and you will thank them. You will thank them for the path that it put you on. You didn’t expect it. You didn’t want it, but here you are,
04:23.32
jessica
right
04:24.70
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah. And when you get to that point where you are able to look back and realize that these experiences that you didn’t want at the time and that you were just praying you could get through as quickly as possible really made you into the person you are. And and you see the beauty that that is in your life now because of those trials, of those hard times, of those obstacles.
04:49.69
Lorie Jones
it it It just, it it really does. it’s so It’s an emotional experience, at least for me. It just makes me feel like, oh, think thank goodness I wasn’t in charge of the whole path because I would have gone around or through or over or
05:04.65
jessica
One of my favorite quotes in life, and I hope this makes you chuckle is, um Wait a minute, trust in God, but lock your car. And I just, it’s one of those things that is just so, i was a Girl Scout growing up and one of the taglines and in the Girl Scouts is always be prepared.
05:21.82
jessica
And I feel like there have been so many parts of my life that I have not been prepared for, but that’s when you really show internally what you are built for and how you can find the nimble and ah the nimble way, I should say, to constantly re-prepare, if that’s even a word.
05:38.36
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. So let’s talk a little bit about your journey. um Tell me a little bit about kind of how you got started.
05:45.06
jessica
Okay.
05:48.23
Lorie Jones
um did you like, did you know from age three or two or five that what you were going to be? Or was it a little bit of a windy path? What are you doing now? Like, tell me about you.
05:58.46
jessica
Okay. Sure. Okay. So when I was three, i wanted to be a Ruckat. That’s what i wanted to be. That was my, that was my career goal and aspiration.
06:08.70
jessica
I grew up in a big family and I think that that’s, that that’s always ah a fun place to start.
06:09.17
Lorie Jones
you
06:13.58
jessica
I’m one of five kids. And I had an incredible stay-at-home mom who really created the foundation for everything that we did. um And my father was always in business, and he was always um either like an EVP of sales or a CRO at whatever company he worked for. And I think that watching him and interact and engage with his clients, watching him build teams probably influenced me more than i even realized at the time to go into my line of work um I would say that it was in my early 20s where I really had my first inflection point. And that was when I moved to San Francisco. And I moved to San Francisco from Columbus, Ohio.
06:55.70
jessica
Which looking back, it’s hilarious because San Francisco to me was like Japan. I mean, it was like a whole new world and in every way, shape and form it was.
07:06.17
jessica
And something I say a lot is you can take a girl out of Columbus, Ohio, but you can’t take Columbus, Ohio ohio out of the girl. And that was very true for me. I’ve been out in California now for about 30 years and it still resonates.
07:18.49
jessica
So I had never sold advertising and I absolutely knew nothing about it. And I think that there’s something really beautiful about being young and just jumping and taking a risk and believing that like you can learn anything.
07:28.64
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
07:32.00
jessica
Like just, I i can do this, right? Um, they were very, it’s, it’s interesting to look back at that because I was stumbling through life, trying to figure out a new city, a new set of friends, a new job. But that led me that experience at this tech company in San Francisco. And it was right in the middle of the boom led me to where the next chapter of my career was, which was on the brand side. And so i did, i I did my journey backward. Most people. start in print and go to digital. I started in digital and went back to print. And so my first job was at Rolling Stone and that led me to Teen People and that led me to Condé Nast at Vanity Fair and that led me to Sports Illustrated. And I fell in love with how media could shape culture and these editors who told these incredible stories that
08:31.42
jessica
would be the catalyst for global dialogue. And I felt like I was really using my left brain and my right brain. And it was just magical. I think back to that chapter and it was so much fun.
08:41.83
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
08:42.20
jessica
And then the whole world started to shift and print was changing and digital was emerging. And I found myself being drawn to the next chapter. But my next chapter, and that’s like the first, like expect the unexpected and the obstacle is the way left i left Tanya Hertz- timing at the time, which was I was I was working in the tech category there and i didn’t know what I wanted to do, i was like i’m putting i’ve put on this sweater for 20 years of my career and now.
09:16.28
jessica
I don’t have that same zest and zip and vigor that I did when I moved out to San Francisco that I felt like I could change the world. I didn’t actually even understand what I wanted to do. And that was one of the first things that I wanted to talk to you about today was the power of mentorship and the power of connections and the power of your network itself.
09:30.86
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
09:35.29
jessica
Because I was introduced to this woman who i I still talk to today and I will look at her as my guardian angel in that chapter. And she said to me, listen, I want you to take a meeting with um this gentleman and it’s going to be completely outside of advertising. And I want you to get really comfortable with that because your skills are translatable and you can do this. And I went downtown.
09:58.36
jessica
I had never spent any time in downtown Los Angeles. It’s like it’s not like downtown San Francisco. It’s probably not like downtown Denver. It’s not at that time. Even it wasn’t like the thriving metropolis it is now.
10:09.34
jessica
And I met the CEO of a company within AXIS called, or I’m sorry, AEG an a called AXIS. And that role was really, truly about leaving media altogether and selling partnerships, selling events, um really in immersing myself in a new revenue model.
10:27.97
jessica
And it was so much fun, Lori.
10:28.42
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
10:30.07
jessica
I literally woke up every day with fear in my bones. But it was the best kind of fear because you were like, I don’t have the answers. I am going into a meeting. I am like, one of these things doesn’t belong here. And it’s because it’s me. And I’m sitting in a room with engineers trying to figure out the tech stack for this venue entry software. But guess what?
10:51.79
jessica
We’re going to sell it and we’re going to have great success here and we’re going to have a lot of fun as we’re doing it. So that was this like complete diversion that I thought at the time in my career was a diversion, but it really wasn’t because it laid me it it actually set me up for the next chapter of my career, which was the next seven years at Bustle Digital Group, where We were doing events, we were doing um social, we were digging into talent, we were doing, um gosh, all sorts of new emerging media executions and platforms.
11:27.64
jessica
And I’ll be really honest with you and transparent, which was, i had no idea that that what I thought was this diversion in my career was really just bedrock to continue to build, if that makes sense at all.
11:38.39
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
11:40.70
jessica
um In the background, I was trying to start a family and i had had my first son. And then, as I mentioned at the top of the bar, our call, I went one of five, my dad’s one of seven, my mom’s one of eight.
11:54.73
jessica
Infertility was not something that was going be my problem in the world. I had a lot of problems. but that was not going to be one of them so that really put a tremendous amount into perspective for me because you realize very quickly that you can try to keep every single ball in the air but over time you realize which ones really matter to keep in the air so that’s kind of something that i try to take with me now in my leadership and in my approach to life and some days are easier than others as i’m sure you relate yeah
12:24.31
Lorie Jones
Oh, yeah. but So so like that, that experience kind of flowed through as you started having teams of your own, and the way that you interacted and the way that you showed up for them and that sort of thing.
12:33.56
jessica
Yes.
12:38.94
jessica
One hundred percent. One of my um one of my my comments, especially to my team members that are starting families, especially to my team members that you know are dealing with some serious issues outside of these you know, boxes that we find ourselves in every single day is, hey, listen, we’re trying to do the most efficient and the most powerful work in the hours that we’re together during the workday.
12:53.99
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
13:03.61
jessica
But the whole goal of doing that work is so that we can leave these boxes and go to the things that matter. And those are the things that feed our souls. Those are the things that bring us this new perspective and context that we can bring to this work every single day.
13:18.25
jessica
i can tell you that being a mom has been the most fulfilling and the most challenging job of my life. And I think about that as I think about leading teams.
13:31.70
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
13:31.74
jessica
Someone told me a couple of years ago, everyone just wants to be walked home. And ah there’s just so much power in that in terms of, the ability to be that person, to be that guide, and to be that leader that sees beyond like the fact that you are Laurie Jones and you are here to do a job. You are Laurie Jones and you are a human. And that human perspective and that humanity that you bring to this job every day is what makes you so great.
13:58.07
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love that. And, and I do think that like your outside life um really does, if you, if you can integrate it into what you do, it makes it a richer experience for you and your life, but also for your company that you’re working for.
14:14.49
Lorie Jones
Because yeah, it, it just, it, it makes it into something that’s better than it would have been if you had, have you, if you had kind of kept it separate.
14:14.62
jessica
Agreed.
14:22.63
Lorie Jones
Right.
14:23.42
jessica
Agreed. 100%. one hundred percent
14:24.38
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. So Jessica, tell me about the best investment you’ve made in yourself as you kind of have gone through your journey. Is there something you can be like, oh my gosh, so glad I did that?
14:37.94
jessica
Yeah, yeah, I can. One of the best investments that I have made in myself is continuing to invest in leadership and career coaches myself.
14:50.03
jessica
I think that my father once told me to hang my diploma in my closet because it is a daily reminder that you never stop learning. And I think that when we decide in a variety of different ways that we know the answers and supposedly, you know, there’s just, there’s not much more to learn, you know, I’m like, I’ve been doing this for so long.
14:57.95
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
15:09.66
jessica
And then you bring yourself a new perspective and you really sit down and you do the oftentimes hard, and I will use this word very deliberately, ugly work.
15:21.07
jessica
It’s the ugly work where you sit there with yourself and you think about, especially what your own strengths are, what your own weaknesses are, what your intangibles are, what your what what what is it that defines who you are and how can you bring that And how can you bring those strengths to really maximize the team and the company that you work for and with? And how can you be an evangelist for those things to others? um I invested in personal coaching for the first time about 10 years ago, and it changed my life. um
15:57.98
jessica
I realized that we are all beautiful, evolving creatures and we change so much. And I also think the other thing that I love is I love working with youth. I love doing my own mentorship. And I love working with this generation, which is the millennial, gen-zenial, gen-Z, next coming alpha that so many people are scared of, but I’m not because they just they they teach me so much about who I am and they remind me of when I was younger. God, it’s so great. It’s so great to wake up every single day and feel like you can change the world.
16:35.77
jessica
You can’t. You know, um so I would say that I would say if I were to drill it down, it’s my own personal coaching and it’s giving that to the younger generation.
16:45.18
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that. And I think that that, you you know, as I as i work with my own kids that are in that I call it the baby adult stage where they’re just learning to adult.
16:56.92
Lorie Jones
and sometimes those are hard lessons to learn, but they, there’s, they have so many great ideas and they’re, you know, they’re coming out of institutions, a lot of times colleges or learning.
17:08.84
Lorie Jones
And they do have that sense of like, oh, I can do anything. I just have to, you know, I just have to be taught.
17:12.66
jessica
Yes.
17:14.88
Lorie Jones
and i I love nurturing rather than questioning that because it’s so much fun to see what they come up with. And they and they come up with such great ideas sometimes, don’t they?
17:25.47
jessica
Oh my God, 100%. You know, Kelly Corrigan is another one of my favorite authors. She’s based in the Bay Area. Really, really beautiful ability to ah tell the most gorgeous stories. And one of her books is Tell Me More.
17:39.90
jessica
And I just love those three words. Tell me more. you know i want to know more about that.
17:43.49
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
17:46.14
jessica
First, selfishly, it’s a way to buy time, especially when you’re just like flat-footed or you need a little bit more, or if you’re shocked by the question or the the line of the narrative that someone’s giving you. But it also really truly is like the ability to open up a conversation to a place that you can learn so much more about an individual, the way that they got to that decision, the way that they frame their own thinking. So i love I just love those three words.
18:14.97
Lorie Jones
And I think that you brought up a really good point about the coaching too. and i And I just want to emphasize that just a little bit is that you’re like, they can see things in me that I can’t see in myself, or they can they they can emphasize the strengths in me.
18:32.66
Lorie Jones
They also tend to be pretty honest about where you maybe have weaknesses. And I don’t like looking at my weaknesses so much.
18:40.79
jessica
No, no, it’s the worst. It’s the worst to look at yourself in the mirror, like with a very, very um clean and sober face and say, wow, this is a pattern that is definitely um that shows up that shows up throughout my career, right? But I think that the beautiful thing about a coach, and I’d love your perspective on this, is the way that they frame it is also so nurturing and beautiful.
19:09.14
jessica
um
19:09.28
Lorie Jones
Deep
19:09.88
jessica
I was talking to a friend this morning and she was complaining about the fact that you know she’s in her own transition. And she was complaining about the fact that you know she she doesn’t feel like she’s good at making a tremendous amount of contacts and asking for help and you know really leaning in to her network. And I said, listen, I’m gonna give you a pro about that.
19:31.83
jessica
The pro is that you cultivate relationships, you go deep, you go narrow, and that’s there’s nothing wrong with that. I think that like the beauty of forcing yourself to be comfortable with being uncomfortable is something that’s really important in life, but don’t underestimate what makes you so powerful, which is, go deep, you go narrow.
19:52.99
jessica
I’m sorry, you go deep, you go narrow. Yeah, you go deep, you know, and there there’s time to go wide. Like, there’s still time for that, you know?
20:00.65
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah, i I agree. I think that they do have a that’s how come I like working with coaches so much is because a lot of times that first of all, they’ll see things that you don’t see and they don’t come at you like, Laura, you’re complete screw up, give up now.
20:17.72
Lorie Jones
like hey
20:18.73
jessica
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
20:19.54
Lorie Jones
You know there’s a few things that have you thought about this or have you considered it this way? And they just have a gentle way of working year round. yeah And sometimes they can even make you like you think about yourself.
20:32.38
Lorie Jones
Oh, well, what if I did this? And they’re like, yeah, what if you did?
20:34.93
jessica
Yeah. Oh, I will tell you, there have there were many moments um over the course of my life where I’m like, you know what? I’m i’m ah i’m an avid yoga teacher.
20:46.95
jessica
Yogi, I should say, and I try my best to practice daily. And there have been many times over the course of the last couple of months, candidly, where I’m like, you know what? Yoga instruction. This is it.
20:57.56
jessica
This is my next career step. And it’s not to say that like that that doesn’t factor into maybe some of my future, but like, I think that that’s the beauty of being open with yourself and having that um freedom and that open container to say, hey, like the old adage, if you knew you weren’t going to fail, what would you do?
21:17.98
jessica
Like if you really do, you know, and when you ask yourself that question and you really listen to the answer, sometimes it’s very different than where you find yourself showing up every day.
21:18.65
Lorie Jones
Oh, yeah. Yeah. yeah
21:31.80
Lorie Jones
What about the worst advice? Have you ever gotten some really, really bad advice and did you take it
21:40.60
jessica
No, you know what? i but But I remember it very, very clearly. It was a moment in which there was a brand that I would really, really wanted to go work for.
21:53.49
jessica
And i was gunning for a job at this brand. And I remember that I met with a gentleman who worked at the company, like not at that brand specifically, this is at Condé Nast, And he sat across from me at the breakfast table and he said, listen, there’s no way you’re ever going to get a job within that brand for X, y and Z.
22:14.76
jessica
And if you want a job within that brand, you need to be x y and Z. And I remember leaving. And again, I was probably in my still in my 20s, still feeling very emboldened, still feeling very, you know, less fearless, fearless.
22:26.94
Lorie Jones
Fearless.
22:28.66
jessica
And I remember leaving thinking, you know what? I don’t have, like, that is the most horrible advice that anyone could ever give you. Like, if you want this job, you need to change who you are. You need to be someone different.
22:40.46
jessica
You need to show up in a different way. And wouldn’t you know, two years later, I was sitting in that chair doing that job. And a friend of mine said, well, you need to call him and needed to tell him. I said, no, getting the job is enough.
22:51.29
jessica
Like, that that I made the statement that, you know, I could have done this. I did it through being JJ and not having to change myself into someone else.
23:00.56
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
23:01.08
jessica
I also think that and i I do have to say this because I think it’s shown up a lot in my career and I think it’s probably shown up for a lot of women that the advice that you need to be more like a man, the advice that you need to show up in more of a a manner that a gentleman would do in the marketplace. And that has always frustrated me. That has always been one of those things where it’s, um it falls on deaf ears with me. And I hope it falls on deaf ears with the women that are listening to your podcast, because there is such a beauty about showing up in the female form. And can’t believe we’re still a world in which that’s still a conversation. But also know it’s going be this years to come.
23:49.53
jessica
that you have to do that job and i can’t believe we’re still in a world in which that’s still a conversation but i also know that it’s going to be this way for many years to come
24:00.41
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. And I love that women in general are kind of leaning into that authenticity too, to that like, you know, a lot of professions, especially male dominated professions say, this is the way you must do this profession.
24:15.30
jessica
Great.
24:15.48
Lorie Jones
And women nowadays are kind of looking at that and saying that that isn’t me. It doesn’t feel like me. It doesn’t fit me. I’m going to do it. I’m going to try it differently. And, and they show up authentically as themselves and they find that they resonate with, you know, with people and with different, maybe it’s a different group of people. Maybe they aren’t going after the same client space, but, but they do the the, the people that understand that that’s who you are and that’s how you show up. They, they’re attracted to that and they come, they come to find you.
24:51.61
jessica
g Agreed. And it’s the energy that you bring, right? It’s the authentic, real energy. and i and And those words have always resonated with me. I feel like, you know, it’s one of the things I say to my teams a lot is, hey, I’m going to be honest going to be me because there is really no other way to be, right?
25:08.86
jessica
Yeah.
25:09.14
Lorie Jones
what you see is what you get i say that all the time i’m like i can’t be different i could try
25:15.14
jessica
Oh, yeah. and And I feel like it builds such an immediate level of trust that like, oh okay. Like she’s not like she is, she is who she says she is. Right. And I can trust her to actually have my back and to show up for me the way that she’s asking me to show up for her every day.
25:33.40
jessica
You know?
25:33.56
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like, I, i just, i I tried the, you know, dark blue suits and the, the, all the, I tried fitting into that world and it just, it just isn’t me. I, I’m a little bit pink. I am just a little bit pink.
25:50.71
jessica
I love the pink. I love the pink and I love like the softer lines. I love the the cotton versus the polyester. I love all of that, right? Yeah, yeah.
26:00.00
Lorie Jones
Yeah. What about a do-over, JJ? If you look back kind of along your path, is there like something you can say, gosh, I would do that over again. And this is how I would do it differently.
26:13.02
Lorie Jones
Knowing what you know now.
26:14.33
jessica
Yes, yes.
26:15.35
Lorie Jones
Okay.
26:15.74
jessica
And that chapter is very clear. I would have left earlier. i would have left earlier. i would have trusted my gut, which leads us every single day. We just don’t listen to it, myself included. And I would have made the decision to leave sooner.
26:34.65
jessica
I feel like there is a moment in life that we all go through. I’ve had many moments myself where, okay, it’s a good job. I love this job. I’m doing great work. I love my team.
26:49.14
jessica
It’s really, really toxic and it’s really, really bad, but I can get through it based on the other things that are going on. And if you really force yourself to step back and to sit at 10,000 feet and to say, this is my story.
27:04.31
jessica
This is my narrative. I’m going to take the jump. I’m going to take the risk. I’m going to leave and I’m going to trust that. that it might take time it might take some real deep soul searching and you know um work very very intentional work but i’m going to get to the other side versus staying in a place that was not serving me and not serving others
27:30.51
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. And it it feels it’s it’s that’s a really hard step to take when things feel comfortable and you know, you’re good at it.
27:35.64
jessica
yeah
27:38.29
Lorie Jones
Like, you know, as I as I made the leap to my own brand um and and being, you know, a financial advisor under my own brand, I could have stuck it out and just coasted through.
27:44.01
jessica
Yes. Yes.
27:53.14
Lorie Jones
And i it would have been eat it would have been easier. It would have been easier. Less growth.
27:57.37
jessica
yes yes
27:59.45
Lorie Jones
I love, love, love that I did this, but, but it’s so hard to take that step when you’re like, but I’m good at this and I’m, you know, I’m comfortable here.
28:08.50
jessica
plus
28:11.09
jessica
I’m comfortable here and I can, you know, i have a family to support. i have responsibilities. i I’m not 22 and running around the streets of San Francisco and have really like, and I look back at those days and I thought I had problems.
28:23.45
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
28:29.30
jessica
You know, I mean, it’s all relative. It’s all relative. They were real problems back then, Jessica, yes. um But I feel like it’s like, you know, it is very, very hard. And I sit in this spot right now and I say to you that it will be hard anytime you do it.
28:47.29
jessica
But when you really sit with yourself and you say, What do I want this next chapter to look like? What do I want in my life? The tools that were serving me two years ago are not the tools that are serving me now.
29:00.89
jessica
And we change and evolve every single day, as does the people around us, as does the org that we work for every day. um you ever do that, by the way? Do you ever talk to your younger self?
29:14.55
Lorie Jones
yeah ha I do go back and talk to my younger self quite a bit, and but it’s in the form of like my 19 and 21 year old.
29:15.83
jessica
love that. You’re awesome.
29:21.66
jessica
Yes, totally. Fair, fair. Myself included. But somebody said that to me the other day. They were like, you know, when you talk to yourself and we all get down on ourselves, like talk to yourself the way you would talk to six-year-old Jessica. And I was like, wow, that is like, it was so mind-blowing for me. It was such a beautiful, oh, just like warm hug where you’re like, yeah, like how did why how did we change that? Like where do we along the way decide that beating ourselves up is the way to talk to ourselves, you know?
29:54.84
Lorie Jones
Yeah. It’s not motivating and it’s not nice.
29:55.50
jessica
know. No.
29:57.32
Lorie Jones
Be nice.
29:57.88
jessica
No. I know. Just be nice. Just be kind. Be kind.
30:00.63
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
30:01.50
jessica
Yeah, absolutely.
30:03.74
Lorie Jones
um What about if you could go back and high five yourself for a really great past financial decision? What would that be?
30:12.95
jessica
Oh, God. Okay. I love these questions. If I could high five myself for a great financial decision, it would be showing up for myself in negotiations.
30:15.69
Lorie Jones
Okay.
30:22.36
Lorie Jones
Okay.
30:23.16
jessica
It’s really hard. I feel like my whole world is negotiating for our clients and negotiating for whatever brand or company that I have worked for. um but negotiating for yourself.
30:34.73
jessica
And I remember I had a boss and i was stumbling my way through asking for a raise and I was doing a really horrible job. And he stopped me and he said, what do you want?
30:46.14
jessica
And I said, what do you mean? He said, just say what you want. No one is going to say it for you. And the worst answer that you could get is no.
30:56.90
jessica
So ask for what you want. And it was it was interesting in that moment because
30:59.51
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
31:04.54
jessica
It was really beautiful the way he did it because he we were we were zoning in and on what it was, but he’s like, just say it, you know? And that was, I think the first step for me in terms of really approaching my own brand and approaching my own negotiation the same way that I do with clients, partners, you know, brand development,
31:28.84
jessica
executions. um And it’s hard. It is really, really hard. It’s really hard to to to come to the table and say, this is why I’m so amazing. And this is why I deserve x Y, and Z. Right?
31:39.64
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:40.15
jessica
um Yeah.
31:41.05
Lorie Jones
Because we’re taught to be just a little bit like, oh, that’s braggy. Don’t be too braggy.
31:45.72
jessica
like I’m so sorry for asking, but, you know,
31:45.86
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
31:48.54
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
31:49.18
jessica
I would say that the other other most responsible thing I’ve ever done, and if my dad is listening to this, he will be very excited to hear it I have maxed out my four one k every single year.
32:01.18
jessica
He’s like, Jessica, if you’re making $5, you’re going to invest in in whatever the 25 cents is in 401k. And so he is always sitting on my shoulder to invest in four zero one k
32:13.38
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. From the time you’re little, I love that. That is my kind of dad and ah hallelujah, God bless the dads. i
32:22.58
jessica
Oh, yeah. totally
32:24.12
Lorie Jones
ah But i I love what you said about like negotiating for yourself. And, and you know, in my, as a financial advisor, i I work with women all the time who have kind of undervalued, they haven’t negotiated for themselves. And if you start out at a lower level,
32:41.24
Lorie Jones
And you don’t negotiate for the for what you’re worth at every step of the way. Like you you steadily get further and further behind. And that pay gap gets wider and wider.
32:52.67
Lorie Jones
And and then you end up in a different place than you would have if you didn’t. just, i i coach I coach every single one of the people that I mentor, including my own, um you know, like my daughter-in-laws and my ah my own assistants.
33:02.81
jessica
Oh,
33:09.40
jessica
I love that.
33:11.43
Lorie Jones
I’m like, you need to come to the table with, you know, comps for someone who is doing your job.
33:16.25
jessica
Oh, yeah.
33:17.79
Lorie Jones
You need to stay abreast of what sort of salary you should be getting and you need to ask for it.
33:23.38
jessica
You need to ask for it. It’s like there’s so it’s it’s such powerful advice and powerful feedback um because somewhere along the line, I think most women are trained that you don’t want to ask for too much. You don’t want to be looked at as that kind of woman. And, you know, I do believe that things are a heck of a lot different than they were. when you and I were growing up, but we still have so, so such a long, long journey to go until a woman really feels like I think that deep level of confidence that builds generationally in terms of, yes, this is who I am. This is my work.
34:02.01
jessica
This is what i deserve. Right?
34:05.02
Lorie Jones
her Yeah.
34:05.78
jessica
Yeah.
34:06.62
Lorie Jones
And, and helping and mentoring. i love that we get the opportunity to kind of mentor those that are, are coming in, whether, you know, younger people in our organizations, or i love that we get to help them with the things that we wish we had known.
34:22.57
jessica
Oh, I do too. It’s so funny. I was mentoring this woman last week who’s getting ready to graduate from college. And as we were hanging up, I said, you know, if I could go back in time, it would be to where you are right now.
34:38.38
jessica
You’re graduating. You have the world at your feet, the world at your feet to do whatever it is that you want to do. And you have this incredible education. with an MBA right out of college. And, you know, what my, my advice to you would be to really contemplate where it is that you want to go and what you want to do.
34:56.24
jessica
Don’t take the first offer that, that is, is presented to you. um
34:59.67
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
35:00.34
jessica
Really take your time and your diligence. And I’m right here next to you. If you want my advice and you want my, and my take on these, And she was so cute and just so full of life. And again, it’s like, I don’t know if I’m in the stage of life right now too, where I’m just like feeling very nostalgic at the same time that I’m feeling very forward thinking, but I’m also really grateful that I have the opportunity to do this because I didn’t have a Lori in my life. my um my My mentors that I looked to were in very different shapes and containers.
35:36.18
jessica
um My dad has always been a mentor for me and my career. And I would say that my first boss, when I moved out to San Francisco, woman by the name of Andy, has been instrumental in really changing the trajectory of who I thought I was and what my career could look like.
35:53.31
jessica
And i feel very grateful for that.
35:53.57
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
35:56.24
jessica
And that is why, like, I had, I just want, I want this woman to have five of me. I want her to just be surrounded with people that are like, you can do this.
36:06.36
jessica
This is why you can do this. And again, going back to like, don’t always look at your obstacles as being your, the the things that hold you back.
36:16.62
jessica
It’s really like root yourself in action, root yourself in just action and will. And um i will I will also go back to being human. Some days those things are really hard to find, you know?
36:26.97
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some days you’re like, I just want to comfort her day.
36:31.73
jessica
Yeah. Yes. I just want a heated blanket and darkness, right?
36:36.60
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
36:37.91
jessica
And no and no screaming children.
36:40.31
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Oh yeah. Five minutes to yourself. Just, just five minutes.
36:43.64
jessica
Yes, just five.
36:45.08
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
36:45.27
jessica
Oh, that was such a great book. um There was a, when I was at Time Inc., there was an editor of Real Simple and she wrote a book and it was called Just Let Me Lie Down. And I remember just reading it and I’m so embarrassed.
36:56.95
jessica
I can’t remember her name, but it was such a great book because it was, it was so rooted in like, just give me five minutes, right?
37:03.72
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
37:03.71
jessica
Just rest.
37:04.30
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Just, yeah.
37:05.17
jessica
Yeah.
37:06.24
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I love that. um Jessica, what scared you the most when you kind of started, you talked about being a little bit fearless and, and we all, I i i do think we have a little bit of that in us as we’re young, but was there anything that kind of scared you and that does it still, or do you, did you learn how to deal with it?
37:25.50
jessica
Yeah, I think that’s a great question. I think I’m scared every day. um And I think that it’s i think that there’s a there’s a level of fear that’s really healthy and positive in all of our lives. I think that the thing that that scared me the most was consistently finding success right i feel like there’s like um we go through life and we walk up like stairs and you’re in the midst of your stare and you’re like kind of what we were talking about a couple minutes ago like i’m really comfortable here like i like this stare i’m feeling like this i can see these things from this stare i can do these things from this stare and you’re constantly especially for high achievers you’re constantly pushed to move up to the next stair.
37:48.39
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
38:08.27
jessica
And when you’re climbing up to that stair, it’s really scary. And I think that for me, as much as I believe in myself, it’s also riddled with, can I do it?
38:21.91
jessica
Okay. Yes, you can do it. You can do it. Oh, can I do it? You know? So I think that that’s like the humanity of what I would probably call what most people call the imposter syndrome, right?
38:33.56
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
38:33.78
jessica
Like, am I the person that is empowered to make this decision? Yes. And this is why. And I remember walking into a job many moons ago where I was for the first time managing people.
38:46.69
jessica
And I hated the word managing. I just, I still to this day, just hate, it just like I have a visceral reaction to it. And i remember talking to my leader at the time and saying, oh gosh, I didn’t i didn’t realize this was part of the job, you know?
39:00.65
jessica
And she’s like, listen, I promise you that leading is going to change your life. And if we regroup in a year and you tell me, oh, this is not for me, I will be absolutely shocked, but I will hear you and I will listen to you and we can make changes.
39:14.64
jessica
Well, that really truly was an inflection point for me because what I realized is I probably screwed a lot of things up that first year
39:15.08
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
39:24.66
jessica
And we should go and talk to some of those people. But i also realized that leadership is so much more than checking the box on a daily basis. Leadership is really, am I empowering these people to show up at whatever this proverbial job is every day? And do they feel stronger? Do they feel more confident? Do they feel safer they’re I’m behind them at their back saying, let’s go, let’s do this.
39:54.84
jessica
Let’s a row to the shore because we’re doing this together. Right.
39:57.98
Lorie Jones
you
39:58.62
jessica
um And so I think that my fear has always come from stepping into something new. that I don’t feel like I’ve got a full grasp in terms of every single perfect way to do that.
40:11.83
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
40:12.63
jessica
Every single perfect way to do that.
40:12.82
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
40:14.31
jessica
I grew up a gymnast and you would never know by my height. I’m 5’11”. I know we’re sitting down, but I’m 5’11”. And I grew an entire foot when I was between 15 and 16 years old.
40:23.83
Lorie Jones
Oh
40:24.41
jessica
Growing up a gym gymnast and literally being a competitive gymnast in which you were practicing upwards of five hours a day, everything had to be perfect, Lori, right? And so I think that carries me now is like, okay, I’m stepping into this.
40:33.21
Lorie Jones
oh yeah.
40:37.62
jessica
I do not know how to do it perfectly yet. I am not in a position to get 10 and I need to find every single way that I can find that perfect 10. And I realized that’s what life is.
40:48.14
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
40:49.89
jessica
Like that’s the messiness of life right?
40:52.44
Lorie Jones
Yeah, the messy middle, right?
40:52.69
jessica
um
40:54.92
Lorie Jones
That’s that stage, that messy middle where you’re growing, you’re not perfect.
41:00.09
jessica
No.
41:00.25
Lorie Jones
And and it’s it’s really hard to step to deliberately step into that space, to deliberately choose to go towards something that you’re not quite good at yet, and to take that first i the first fearless step, right?
41:06.19
jessica
Yes. That’s a great word. Yes.
41:12.34
jessica
Yes.
41:15.99
jessica
Yes.
41:16.63
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
41:17.05
jessica
And not to be like running away from anything, running toward, and I love that word deliberate, like running toward the next big thing in your life, right?
41:19.69
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
41:27.82
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. So what were some of the things that you used to when you were in that messy middle part, that really scary part where there you’re like, I’m not you know, you’re not going to do it perfectly. What what what tricks, what tips, what did you do?
41:43.25
jessica
Breath.
41:44.48
Lorie Jones
OK.
41:44.60
jessica
My own breath. um Asking for help, asking for help. It’s really hard to do. It’s hard for me to do now. It’s going to be hard for me to do probably my whole life, but to ask questions and to really listen to the answers, right? Because I think that a lot of times especially when you’re going into a new situation. And I’ll use my like when I left my advertising chops for that two years of time, like I had to ask so many questions. I look back at the notebooks that I used when I started at that job and they were.
42:20.28
jessica
Oh, my gosh, I think I had like five volumes of like I had to learn this whole new SaaS-based software platform, right?
42:27.27
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
42:27.48
jessica
And that was not in any shape or form of my DNA. And also to give myself grace. And I think that that’s really hard as individuals.
42:34.33
Lorie Jones
and
42:35.65
jessica
Again, i go back to high-achieving people who want to know everything now. And to say, Jessica, the adage is right. Rome wasn’t built in a day and nobody expects you to have all the answers on day one.
42:47.72
jessica
What they do expect you is to critically think and to really utilize the tools that you’ve got. And sometimes those tools are questions. um But I always go back to breath because I’m like, oh, like sometimes, honestly, 10 deep breaths in and out is all I need to kind of reset my nervous system and remind myself of why I’m there in that proverbial spot.
43:11.13
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. i do some of those too. I do deep breaths. I do um ah nice self-talk. Like, you know, there’s a reason you’re doing this.
43:20.63
jessica
Yes.
43:23.20
Lorie Jones
Think of the good things you’ve accomplished.
43:23.48
jessica
Yes.
43:24.80
Lorie Jones
You know, you do have to remind yourself you have to talk nice to yourself.
43:29.62
jessica
Yes, I know it’s so important. And I feel like um i feel like we feed ourselves. those So it’s almost like when you feed yourself vegetables, you feel better. When you feed yourself really kind, loving words, you feel better.
43:41.26
jessica
And those are the things that you start to believe about yourself. Right.
43:44.22
Lorie Jones
yeah
43:44.50
jessica
And I feel like the power of that, the power of our perception, the power of how we show up with that confidence every single day is contagious.
43:56.44
Lorie Jones
What about um along your path? Did you face any unique challenges because you were a woman?
44:03.29
jessica
Yes. um Yes. And I feel like there have been a couple of different instances where I was overlooked because of my gender, wasn’t taken seriously because of my gender.
44:21.34
jessica
um Having children is also something that I think really, truly, like whether or not whether or not people want to admit it or not, It is something that they look at they look at you differently, you know, and make assumptions about who you are and how you’re um how you’re conducting yourself.
44:37.22
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
44:43.90
jessica
um I will say, and maybe I don’t want to sound like Pollyanna positive when I say this, but I will say that those opportunities that I was looked over for, the way that I was treated in certain situations, all were really beautiful lessons for me and learning points for me. um there were There were a couple of moments earlier in my career where i um they were painful from the standpoint that i was i was I was evolving as like a human and a young woman.
45:17.06
jessica
And I didn’t realize that men can be, um especially in in that time, I think that we’ve gone through such a ah reset in in society in terms of women not being looked at as objects as much as they used to, but walking out of meetings and just feeling like,
45:31.45
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
45:34.69
jessica
yucky for lack of a better term, you know, um in terms of the way that you were being perceived, right? Like I think that women, when we show up in the workplace, we want to be taken seriously. We want to be taken seriously for what we’re saying and what we’re doing and maybe not necessarily always about the way we look. um And so that was painful, but I will say, i will say again at the end, I’m very grateful for all of those moments because they also allow me to talk really candidly to the women that I’m mentoring about.
46:07.18
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
46:07.29
jessica
And I can actually share my own situations, thoughts, feelings, experiences to say, i went through this. This is how I handled it. And this is what I think that you should do as a wonderful young professional growing up in this world.
46:22.54
jessica
um And I wish that it was different. I do. i think, you know, we we go, we’ve we’ve talked about that a couple of times in our time today, but um perseverance, I think is really, really necessary in terms of that that quote, the days are long and the years are short. Like you really feel that in those moments where you’re like, why isn’t my idea resonating? Why did I say something in terms of whatever it is in a meeting? It was completely disregarded. And the man says it two seconds later and they’re like, brilliant point. And you’re like, what?
46:56.38
Lorie Jones
I just did that.
46:56.63
jessica
How did that happen? How did that happen? um
46:59.90
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
47:00.73
jessica
And I think that that’s probably why the last couple of experiences that I’ve had, I’ve been really been looking for more of a female driven ah experience, more of a female driven opportunity.
47:10.98
jessica
um
47:11.39
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
47:12.22
jessica
so
47:13.40
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s interesting. i i I think that we do run into, we we just run into unique challenges um and and, you know, having kids is one of them and and the perception of how we should act is another.
47:27.45
Lorie Jones
And I think that um your point about you talk to your mentees about these things and kind of um explain how you dealt with it, I think that that will change things.
47:39.09
Lorie Jones
You know, things are changing anyway, but But that will that will allow them to say, okay, this is the way I dealt with it. you You might choose to do it differently or that didn’t work really well for me.
47:50.74
Lorie Jones
You might try a different method, right?
47:52.47
jessica
Yeah, absolutely.
47:53.34
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
47:53.86
jessica
Absolutely. And that’s what life is, right? it’s um It’s a series of ah beautiful opportunities and mistakes, you know, that make us who we are showing up and trying to do our best every single day.
48:10.39
Lorie Jones
What is the thing you are most proud of, Jessica?
48:14.14
jessica
I am most proud of the fact that I have three beautiful children and they are they are, they teach me so much about life every single day.
48:28.63
jessica
And I think that there is something so beautiful about children and the way that They are they they are what I think reminds us remind us of what being fearless really is. Showing up with ah authenticity, showing up with honesty, showing up with questions and not being embarrassed to ask them, and showing up with hearts full of love. And my journey to becoming a mom was not what I expected it to be. um But I believe that every children finds their parents. And I’m so glad that mine found me because they make me a better person outside of being a mother every single day.
49:05.69
Lorie Jones
I think that’s, that is true. You know, a lot of times I’ll look at my actions and I’ll be like, what I want my daughter to emulate this. Like, what I want my son to, to what, would he be proud of what I’m doing right now?
49:20.92
jessica
yes
49:21.08
Lorie Jones
And yeah. And, and,
49:22.90
jessica
but hundred smith It’s so funny, my mom worked so hard. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. She laid the most gorgeous foundation for me being someone who is vocal, who stands up for themselves, who has a voice. um
49:41.42
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
49:41.56
jessica
She started her own career like literally 15 years ago. She’s always been a seamstress by trade. And after she raised us all and we left the house, she really leaned in on that. And she has her own business now. And it’s really funny to see beautiful, I should say, to see her blooming so late in her own life, building this business and building this career.
50:03.13
jessica
And I think about modeling that for my own children. It’s such a different model than what I had growing up. But I want my daughter to look at that and to say, i can do whatever I want to do in whatever capacity is that I that I do it. And I want my boys to also say, hey, listen, like,
50:21.14
jessica
Women come in all shapes, sizes, and containers. And this is like, I’m modeling what it is like to really follow your dreams. Like not just saying that you’re following your dreams, you’re following them.
50:30.73
Lorie Jones
me
50:33.63
jessica
I think that kids, while we expect our kids to show up every single day and reach for the stars, they’re looking to see what we do. They’re looking to see how we present ourselves to the world.
50:44.12
jessica
And then we model that for them. Right.
50:47.03
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. my um One of my daughters, and one time we were just sitting around chatting and she said something along the lines of, well, I have really strong um female females in my life, examples of of really strong females.
51:03.57
Lorie Jones
And she went through like my mother-in-law and my mother and me and and you know some of her aunts and stuff like that.
51:09.19
jessica
Oh,
51:12.09
Lorie Jones
And it just, it made me really reflect on the fact that that that they’re watching they’re watching what we’re doing and I think that those that we’re mentoring are watching what we’re doing and looking at those women’s examples in their lives too so I think that I think that’s really important yeah
51:28.26
jessica
I love it. It must have warmed your heart so much. It’s like, okay, I did something right today. you. You’re looking be up to me for what I’m doing. That’s so beautiful. And that doesn’t surprise me. you’re such a You’re such an authentic and articulate and smart woman.
51:45.21
jessica
like i that’s just That’s the best feeling in the world.
51:47.93
Lorie Jones
Oh, you’re making me blush.
51:47.97
jessica
There’s nothing there.
51:49.49
Lorie Jones
But i do i do think there are such good examples of strong women all over. And I love that that our daughters and those young ladies in our lives have those examples.
52:01.33
Lorie Jones
And that and i and we take that responsibility seriously, right?
52:04.74
jessica
Oh yeah. So seriously, it’s such a grave role that I feel like I play, you know, and um it’s the most beautiful privilege. It really is. And I think it allows me to be a better leader, to be honest with you too. Because I think you have a different sense of understanding and you realize that nobody is showing up every single day saying, gosh, I can’t wait to mess up today. No.
52:28.39
jessica
I’m always showing up and saying, I’m going to do my best. And I’m hoping that if I do mess up, I learn from it. You know?
52:34.90
Lorie Jones
in susan any advice for a young lady who’s kind of just starting down this path that you’re successful at that would help her turn up where you are one day
52:45.50
jessica
Yes. Two pieces of advice that have helped me tremendously. And I hope that they don’t sound cliche, but I’m going to say them anyway. And I’ll give you a little bit of context.
52:55.99
jessica
Number one is take the meeting. Take the meeting all day, every day, especially when you’re young and especially when you’re starting out. Even if you think, oh gosh, meeting with JJ, she’s in media and marketing and advertising and sponsorships. Like, I don’t necessarily know that I want to do that.
53:15.67
jessica
You never know. You never know if the person that you are going to meet with, who they can connect you with and open up your world. And the other thing I would say is to follow the process because the process can be really, really wonky sometimes. And the process is not linear and it includes a lot of dips and turns and bobs and weaves. But if you really follow it and you trust in yourself,
53:43.48
jessica
then the best things are bound to happen. um Patience is such a virtue on that journey and in that process too. And I’ve learned that more ways than I even can share with you in this podcast. But those are the two things that follow me every single day.
53:59.38
jessica
um And sometimes that process is slow and steady and sometimes it’s quick and it’s unexpected. But it’s a beautiful journey regardless. Sometimes it feels ugly, but for the most part, it’s pretty beautiful.
54:12.44
Lorie Jones
Yeah, the messy middle is hard sometimes, we’re not gonna lie, right?
54:16.26
jessica
The messy middle is like a cracked egg on the floor that you’re trying to clean up at the same time that everything else is blowing up, fire alarms are going off. You pull yourself together at the end of it and you’re like, all right. you know Have you ever heard of that theory, the burnt toast theory, Laurie?
54:32.34
Lorie Jones
No, hu tell me. Mm-hmm.
54:33.43
jessica
Okay. So the burnt toast theory is, you know, you’re getting ready for your day. You’ve got a big day ahead of you and your toast burns and you’re now delayed like five to 10 minutes on everything you do in the day.
54:45.45
jessica
And you realize that the burnt toast was actually saving you from x Y, and Z that was going to happen in your day. And so that for me recently has been something that I’ve really leaned in on, especially when i know you can relate to this.
54:59.50
jessica
you’re basically running like a Grand Central Station in your house every day. And you’re like, there’s always going to be the unexpected. So maybe those unexpected are really truly there for a bigger reason than delaying you five minutes to the next piece of your day.
55:13.94
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. I love that thought and that theory because ah because I do end up in sometimes you’ll look back and you’ll be like, thank goodness I had that that time or that moment or that hardship or that you know burnt toast.
55:25.57
jessica
All right.
55:32.12
Lorie Jones
Thank heavens.
55:32.41
jessica
I know. i know.
55:33.37
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
55:33.48
jessica
Thank heavens. I think about that, like not from the career standpoint, but from the infertility standpoint, as I think about that in terms of, you know, there are some things that you can’t see in life.
55:44.07
jessica
And there’s a reason for that. There’s a reason that you can’t see to the other side. There’s a reason sometimes it feels murky. Sometimes it feels cloudy. And if you really just stick with it and stick with your process and stick with your own belief,
55:57.56
jessica
It will come around. It’s just not it’s not always on the timeline that we want it to be, right?
56:03.88
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. i have really appreciated our conversation. um and I loved hearing about your journey. If I have a young lady who wants to ask you questions, how does she get in touch with you?
56:18.91
jessica
Oh, I love this. Okay. Well, she can get in touch with me any way she wants. I can give you my email address. I’m also very happy to give you my cell phone number, especially for these kinds of situations. And I can also provide my LinkedIn, like any, any, I, I, they’re, they’re my favorite things to do My, my line is always open and I’m also Gen X. So like you can still call me on my cell phone and I’ll pick up, you know?
56:41.97
Lorie Jones
I know. didn’t know that was a thing, but that is, huh?
56:44.95
jessica
I know a friend of mine, a client called me the other day and he goes, I just went for it. We’re both Gen X’s and we pick up the phone. I’m like, I know. I have to be like, hi, I’m texting you. Are you here? Are you here in five minutes? Yes.
56:57.01
jessica
Thank you,
56:58.26
Lorie Jones
Oh, that’s so funny. Well, thank you so, so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
57:02.67
jessica
Lori. It was the best highlight of my day.