This week, host Lorie Jones sits down with Hannah Clark, a trailblazing family law attorney and founder of the Reputation Law Group. Hannah didn’t grow up dreaming of practicing law—in fact, she started in financial planning—but found her passion in helping women and families through some of life’s toughest transitions.
In this candid conversation, Hannah shares how she and three other women set out to build a collaborative, intentionally women-centered law practice. She opens up about what it means to lead with empathy in a male-dominated industry and the importance of lifting the next generation through mentorship and honest conversations about confidence, setbacks, and success.
You’ll also hear about overcoming self-doubt, the unique challenges of being a woman in law, and why sometimes the best decisions come from stepping outside your comfort zone, plus a practical piece of wisdom every woman should hear before tying the knot. Stay tuned till the end—Hannah Clark’s final piece of advice is pure gold.
Show Highlights:
- The impact of a women-led, women-centered family law firm. [07:56]
- How is managerial experience useful in entrepreneurship? [12:21]
- The value of listening to your talent and forging your own role. [13:32]
- Bad advice and misconceptions about attending law school. [16:12]
- The pivotal upsides of buying a home as a financial move. [22:11]
- Confidence-building steps for new attorneys in family law. [23:49]
- The importance of mentoring and training in law firms. [28:35]
- Navigating male condescension toward female attorneys. [32:05]
- Normalize honest conversations in partnerships and teams. [39:25.6]
- Why every woman must protect financial interests with a prenup. [44:55]
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.53
Lorie Jones
Good morning, Fearless Females. So we are here today with Hannah Clark. She is founder and managing attorney of the Reputation Law Group. And I’m really excited. Hannah and I have a lot in common. like we We got together and kind of started chatting, and I’m like, oh my gosh, I just need to i need to talk to you and have you share your story. So thank you so much for doing this for us, Hannah. appreciate it.
00:25.74
Hannah Clark
Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here. and yeah, when we first met, it was just like thing after thing. we You know, it was proving that we were so like minded, which I loved.
00:33.94
Lorie Jones
Yeah, it’s just there’s a lot of places we connect with empowering women and kind of helping them. So I love that. I’m i’m sure our listeners are going to really enjoy our conversation today. So my first question is always my favorite. And they say it’s the hardest one. and And I think it probably would be for me too. But I love books. I love reading. What is your favorite book?
00:57.14
Hannah Clark
Yeah, let’s start off with the tough question. um I read a lot. I have a goal every year. so it was actually just really hard to choose my favorite book. um My favorite personal book, so not professional, would be Lessons in Chemistry. Have you read that?
01:12.46
Lorie Jones
ah
01:13.60
Hannah Clark
Oh, it’s so good. It’s got a um female main character who’s trying to make it in a a man’s world truly. And so it’s really, really empowering. And then it also has a narrator. Her pet dog is one of the narrators you hear from. And I had never seen an animal as a narrator and I’m a dog person. So it was, it’s hilarious. It’s empowering.
01:35.51
Hannah Clark
um Highly recommend.
01:37.11
Lorie Jones
It doesn’t have anything to do with chemistry though, does it?
01:38.57
Hannah Clark
Yeah.
01:39.63
Lorie Jones
Because I really don’t even understand chemistry.
01:42.68
Hannah Clark
Luckily, you don’t have to. So she’s a scientist she kind of is teaching women how to cook, but the chemistry behind And I think it’s set in like the 60s.
01:54.16
Hannah Clark
So again, nobody thinks she can make it in chemistry or anything else for that matter, really. And she builds a career. It’s really cool. I love that book. And it’s a TV show now too.
02:01.86
Lorie Jones
ok
02:03.16
Hannah Clark
So for you listeners who don’t want to read, watch the show. Yeah.
02:07.89
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. I love it when they make it into both. and then i And then I’ve got like books and shows to binge for a while. So that’s always great.
02:16.71
Hannah Clark
eight
02:17.72
Lorie Jones
So
02:17.82
Hannah Clark
I wanted go into my my favorite professional book, if you don’t mind. I mean, it’s five dysfunctions of a team. um You know, I feel like a lot of books in the business realm are sometimes they just seem so obvious, sort of like common sense.
02:33.11
Hannah Clark
um And I have never learned as much from any other book as that one. And I think it’s especially important for women who own businesses. I think it’s really helpful. Yeah.
02:44.95
Lorie Jones
Yeah, i that was one of my must reads when when we started you know building out a team. I love that book. I think it’s great. And I think it’s ah it’s a nice, easy, quick read, but it it teaches you a lot. And I’ve read it several times. like You go back through it and write down your ideas of things like, oh, I need to remember this. So it if you haven’t read it recently, it bears repeating even.
03:10.09
Hannah Clark
Yeah, and it is a quick read. I read it on a plane ride um and I learned so much. And I found it interesting that the author is a man, but he actually has the leader in the book as a female. And I think it works really, really well. So yeah, that’s another recommendation of mine.
03:25.34
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love it. So tell me a little bit about your journey, Hannah. How did you get started? did you know what you wanted to be early on How did that journey take you? And and what do you do today? Just a little bit about you.
03:38.84
Hannah Clark
Yeah, I mean, so I am a family law attorney, and now I also own my own family law firm along with three other female partners. um We actually just started this firm in February, and it’s been quite the journey to get here, I will say.
03:54.29
Hannah Clark
i didn’t always know I wanted to be an attorney. I think some attorneys sort of have a family full of them, right? And so the writing’s on the wall. um I didn’t really even know any growing up.
04:04.76
Hannah Clark
um I was a financial planning major in undergrad, hence one of ah the overlaps for me and Lori. um And I didn’t know what to do with that, to be honest. And so some of my professors mentioned possibly going to law school.
04:20.89
Hannah Clark
At the time, they thought it might make sense to match the the law with financial planning and become an estate planning attorney. But I went to law school. That’s what brought me to Colorado. I went to CU Boulder.
04:33.16
Hannah Clark
Um, and to be honest, estate planning which was just a little too boring for me.
04:37.49
Lorie Jones
ah Yeah.
04:39.98
Hannah Clark
have And here I am divorcing people, which is really juicy. So no happy medium. Um, I took a clinic in law school, um, in family law, and I just fell in love with it because you are working with people,
04:45.88
Lorie Jones
yeah
04:53.76
Hannah Clark
um all the time, right? Non-stop. um Almost like people’s therapists, of course, not that I am a therapist and don’t hold myself out to be, but um it’s just, it’s awesome to be involved in people’s lives and and and truly feel like you’re making a difference.
05:09.53
Hannah Clark
um So that’s all I’ve ever done. I graduated law school and I stuck with family law. um I worked at two firms before starting my own. And like I said, we just started the reputation law group in February.
05:21.40
Hannah Clark
um which it’s time has flown. It’s been so fun. So excited. We’re busy. um Yeah. So that’s sort of what, what brought me here.
05:32.43
Lorie Jones
And when you set up a reputation law group, you you did you decided deliberately to keep it women-based, women-owned. what’s What’s that like? Is that different?
05:45.37
Lorie Jones
Is it a different vibe than you’re used to? Is it something? Just tell me about that. I’ve never…
05:50.54
Hannah Clark
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in a lot of ways, the law is mostly male driven. um Both of my previous firms, the owners were men.
06:02.61
Hannah Clark
in both of those firms, um the owner wasn’t actually practicing law anymore. They just owned the law firm, but they weren’t sort of boots on the ground, if you will. And so I actually forged my way into being a managing attorney at both of those firms.
06:17.57
Hannah Clark
So not only did I continue to practice the law, but I got to manage employees and train people um and be a mentor. And so at my last firm, two of the women that i ultimately trained and mentored um are now two of my partners.
06:33.38
Hannah Clark
And I think the four of us, the other one being my other managing attorney, the four of us just knew we could do something different and that we could make a bigger difference in the lives of our employees and the lives of ourselves, as well as the lives of our clients.
06:51.58
Hannah Clark
um Not necessarily just by being women-owned, of course, um but sort of having that empathy um and that that insight into what it’s like. you know I think a lot of clients actually, both male and and female, tend to do better by having a female divorce attorney.
07:09.90
Hannah Clark
um I think men can do better because we can have sort of that soft touch that is sometimes needed. And I think women can do better because we get it. so We get them. um And sometimes I would say male attorneys can’t necessarily empathize as much.
07:25.36
Hannah Clark
um So it was intentional. The four of us left our last firm and started this one. um and i and I think it makes a difference every day in in, again, the lives of the clients and the lives of our employees.
07:38.00
Lorie Jones
How do you, I’m just curious because this is is so interesting to me. How do you, how did you set it up differently? um or Or where do you feel, is it just like, you know, you understand moms need time off to pick up kids from school or is there a deliberate like processes and procedures that you’ve put into place to be more friendly towards ah um women?
08:03.61
Hannah Clark
Yeah, I think sort of knowing how much they’ve got on their plate, not only women with kids, right, but even women without kids just tend to carry a bigger mental load. I think we all have heard a lot about mental load lately.
08:16.96
Hannah Clark
I also find that being a divorce attorney um right now is a really interesting time to do it. When I started my career, a lot of women didn’t have their hands in the finances. They had never paid a bill. They maybe were a stay-at-home, not the breadwinner.
08:33.51
Hannah Clark
And that takes a certain level of care as a divorce attorney for a for a wife or a mom that’s never done the financials, right? But what we also have is we’re seeing obviously a giant increase in women who are the breadwinner, women who are the financial planners and the investors, which is amazing.
08:52.12
Hannah Clark
But that also takes a special um type of care from
08:52.33
Lorie Jones
um
08:56.44
Hannah Clark
um a divorce attorney. And so I just don’t think we’ve seen as much change amongst men going through divorces as we have for women. um And because it’s changing so much, you know, at the same time, i can be representing the stay at home mom while also I’m representing a female CEO making millions of dollars.
09:15.56
Hannah Clark
um And so, yeah, I just, I believe both types of women fare better with that, with that woman attorney. Yeah.
09:22.78
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And that is so interesting.
09:23.52
Hannah Clark
yeah
09:24.50
Lorie Jones
We’re seeing that in finance as well. Just um this this upsurge and upswell of women who are taking control of their financial future because they are the primary bedwinners.
09:35.58
Lorie Jones
we we The generation before us kind of broke a lot of those glass ceilings and and we’re we’re now fully entrenched in some of those those places.
09:47.55
Lorie Jones
And so it it does take It’s a different way of navigating the world when you’ve got when you’re not in this traditional nineteen fifty s family with the guy goes out and makes the money, the woman stays home and doesn’t ask you know how he’s investing or how he’s spending or anything like that. So I find that interesting that we’re both dealing with that in different aspects of women’s lives. And it does take a ah ah different kind of energy to kind of navigate and help.
10:19.14
Lorie Jones
with that transition for them. So tell me, Anna, what is the best investment you’ve made in yourself?
10:21.65
Hannah Clark
Absolutely.
10:26.43
Lorie Jones
As you kind of look back over your journey, are you thinking, can you think of something where you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m so glad I did that because it’s made just all the difference in my life.
10:36.99
Hannah Clark
Yeah. I mean, like I mentioned, forging my way into a management role um at both of the law firms I previously worked at was the best thing I’ve ever done. It set me up to be able to start this business and run this business.
10:51.79
Hannah Clark
I don’t think I could have done that if I didn’t understand um you know the budgets and the employee issues and insurance and malpractice and all of those things.
11:05.02
Hannah Clark
It also made me realize my strength as a manager. um You know, I love having sort of a mixed workload, if you will, will where part of my day is as a manager, part of it as is as an owner, and part of it is just as a practicing attorney.
11:18.75
Hannah Clark
i think all of those things sort of educate the other. And so i think it’s given me confidence. I think it’s helped me understand financials even better.
11:30.79
Hannah Clark
and um And yeah it’s given me the sort of leverage to do something like this, right, to start my own firm, which is the best decision I’ve ever made.
11:42.24
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. So how did you?
11:44.80
Hannah Clark
a
11:45.95
Lorie Jones
How did you work yourself into that man? Was it just no one wanted to take that? And you’re like, Oh, sure, I’ll take it. Or is it like, did you have to, like, raise your hand more often or get be seen? Like, how do you get into that management?
11:59.68
Hannah Clark
Yeah, I mean, it’s true. A lot of people are like, I don’t want to be a middle manager. How is that your goal? um So this might not be for everyone, right? But I just found myself managing anyways, without the role or the compensation, right? Without the title, without the compensation.
12:17.18
Hannah Clark
I just can’t stand by and see an inefficient process or an unhappy employee or a lack of training. um And so I found myself managing anyways. And so I started to ask for the title. I started to ask for the compensation and the time to be able to do it, right? I couldn’t have a full caseload while also managing. And that took a lot. um and neither um And neither firm had ever had that role before.
12:46.52
Hannah Clark
So we were also sort of carving our way into that and having to convince this owner, um you need this role. And here’s why it’s vital. And here’s what I’m already doing. um And so, yeah, it’s not something I just applied for, right? It’s sort of like I had to i had to make my own way.
13:04.09
Hannah Clark
And it set me up for for what I’m able to do today.
13:08.09
Lorie Jones
Yeah, i was I was thinking that just the other day, honestly, as I was putting something together for um my business. And I’m like, oh my goodness, like things that I did five and 10 years ago, um as I was coming up through the ranks have really prepared me for things that I’m doing today.
13:27.53
Lorie Jones
and And there’s no there was no sense of I’m not good enough or I don’t know how to do this or anything like that because I’ve practiced these skills for 10 years. And so so that idea of like maybe volunteering, maybe taking on roles, and and that’s a really hard thing to manage when you’re a woman and you’re carrying a lot of the load anyway.
13:37.34
Hannah Clark
yeah
13:50.63
Lorie Jones
but But taking on roles that allow you to manage the practice really does set you up to if entrepreneurship is where you’re kind of headed. um I don’t know anyone that says, no, no, we don’t.
14:05.16
Lorie Jones
We don’t, you know, we don’t want you to do that.
14:07.77
Hannah Clark
yeah
14:07.99
Lorie Jones
We don’t need you to do that.
14:09.00
Hannah Clark
Yeah. Yeah. The help. Yeah. It’s like, you know, listening to seeing what you um are a natural at, right? Like listen to that. And then also understanding what you’re passionate about.
14:22.86
Hannah Clark
Because both of those things are really true for me when it comes to management, but I had to listen and sort of um act on that.
14:30.37
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
14:30.74
Hannah Clark
Yeah. yes
14:32.40
Lorie Jones
So Hannah, what is the worst advice someone’s ever given you? i always love this question because I get someone that I’m just like, I can’t believe you even I can’t someone even told you that.
14:43.64
Lorie Jones
But what is the worst advice you’ve ever gotten? And did you take the advice or did you ignore it? What did you learn from it?
14:50.50
Hannah Clark
I know the ah audacity of some people, right? Giving you horrible advice.
14:53.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
14:54.98
Hannah Clark
um Honestly, i think the worst advice I ever heard, which I did not take, luckily, was do not go to law school. um Somebody told me that. They said, you’re going to owe a lot of money and you’re never going to make enough money.
15:09.26
Hannah Clark
um And so all that did for me was give me anxiety, crippling anxiety, but I didn’t listen to it.
15:13.39
Lorie Jones
Thank
15:16.72
Hannah Clark
And now it’s great with hindsight to look back and um see that my career has worked out. I actually paid off all my student loans um early. i wish I could tell that person that.
15:28.67
Hannah Clark
ah some
15:28.93
Lorie Jones
yeah
15:30.31
Hannah Clark
Of course, law school is not for everyone. um But all that did for me was really, it was a negative take and it caused the anxiety. um And I didn’t need that in my life, right? And it took a while to get over, but it all worked out and I’m glad I didn’t listen.
15:44.97
Lorie Jones
Um, how did you must’ve been pretty young when you got the advice, right?
15:45.40
Hannah Clark
um
15:49.70
Hannah Clark
Yeah, yeah, I went to law school straight from college. So I was 21 years old. And, you know, I was also about to go to law school, like it was already happening. So to be told don’t go when things are already sort of set in motion, um you know, just isn’t helpful, right? I think there can be um more critical thinking advice, even if you don’t take it, but this was just sort of, um it was moot, right? It wasn’t helpful. It it really was just negative.
16:16.85
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s hard. It’s hard when um people are raining on your parade when you’re already a little bit nervous about making this big step anyway, right?
16:25.11
Hannah Clark
Yeah, yes. I’m always nervous for big steps like that. um So I was already nervous. I was already anxious. You know, law school is a whole other animal. And I was young. You know, some people go have a career before they go to law school and I was straight from college. And so I was impressionable. But again, i think I think it also comes back to listening to your gut.
16:48.06
Hannah Clark
um And if that piece of advice seems to only be um sort of negative, right, and no real critical thinking went into it, then probably ignore the advice.
16:59.23
Lorie Jones
ah Yeah, that’s ah that’s a good example to use. if you if you If it’s just negative with no critical thinking behind it, maybe don’t pay attention to that advice.
17:09.53
Hannah Clark
yeah
17:11.48
Lorie Jones
um What about regrets? And I’m not going to say regrets exactly, but like if there’s situations that you would do differently, if you could go back and do them again, like if you could go back, you’re like, oh my gosh, I know so much more now. I would handle that completely differently.
17:30.36
Hannah Clark
Um, well, would say if there’s younger listeners out there, do regret maybe not studying abroad or taking a year to, to figure life out, to really see what the real world is like, right?
17:44.61
Hannah Clark
I felt so much pressure and it was my own, I was putting the own pressure on myself. Um, but I just felt so much pressure to, get the education, do it well, get the career, do it well. You know, and I think sometimes life is short, right? So it’s okay. You don’t have to figure out what you want to do when you’re 18, when you’re 21. So that would be for the younger listeners.
18:08.86
Hannah Clark
um In terms of my own regrets professionally, i think I just wish I had been confident enough to start my own business earlier. And, you know, i like that you said maybe it’s not actually a regret because everything sort of worked out perfectly. So I can’t necessarily say that I should have done this any earlier.
18:27.20
Hannah Clark
um But because it’s gone well, because it’s been so fun, you know, and I was so scared of doing it. I look back to prior Hannah, younger Hannah, and I’m like, you could have done it.
18:39.07
Hannah Clark
um But again, everything has the has the right timing and everything’s worked out. So not necessarily a regret. But um yeah, you know, Don’t, you know, work on that confidence, i guess, is what I would tell tell prior Hannah.
18:53.58
Hannah Clark
She could do it.
18:53.63
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. It is hard because you, you come at this and you’re like, you’re looking at this big business and you’re like, but what if I fail and what if I can’t do it well?
18:58.42
Hannah Clark
Yeah.
19:04.63
Lorie Jones
And what if things go wrong? And what if, what if, what if, and, and you kind of, I think you wait until all of those questions are like 90% in the yes column before, you before you take that move.
19:17.06
Hannah Clark
yeah
19:19.04
Lorie Jones
But, but, i i too have found looking back that I’m like, why didn’t I make, why wasn’t i braver a little bit earlier? Like, why didn’t I make that move just a little bit earlier?
19:30.31
Lorie Jones
And again, yeah, I don’t know whether it would have turned out, but, but how would you and have the confidence or, or find the fearlessness to make that move just a little bit earlier?
19:30.76
Hannah Clark
Yeah, but in yeah it’s a, you know, it’s a valid question. I think I both in, in most of my major moves in my career,
19:55.18
Hannah Clark
it’s been almost like I have no other choice. You know, like it’s gotten to the point where i’m like, I just have to do this at this point, which is good because it’s really, really, really motivating.
20:06.87
Hannah Clark
um But, you know, it’s less time to plan. It’s sort of like um maybe taking an affirmative action instead of um getting to a place of like, well, at this point, and this is just what I need to do.
20:20.60
Hannah Clark
um But it worked out. So no regrets, I suppose.
20:24.60
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, that’s an interesting take on that.
20:25.17
Hannah Clark
Yeah.
20:28.02
Lorie Jones
kind of looking through and saying, could you have been a little bit more proactive instead of reactive to like getting in the situation, like you said, where there’s just, I’ve been there too, where there’s just no other option. You’re like, I have to do it because the alternative is miserable.
20:46.27
Lorie Jones
And so, but, but um like planning forth and kind of making goals and setting
20:46.61
Hannah Clark
yeah
20:54.58
Lorie Jones
you know, guidelines for not getting to the place where it just has to happen. I don’t know. I haven’t, I haven’t taken that road yet. So maybe that’s a good way of doing it. ah
21:03.76
Hannah Clark
Yeah, yeah totally.
21:06.67
Lorie Jones
What about, if you could look back on your journey and you could high five yourself for one really great financial decision that you made, what would that be?
21:17.75
Hannah Clark
I’m scared to answer this because you’re the financial planner. So you’re going to be like, no, that wasn’t good. Honestly, purchasing my first house, which is now a rental, and I have purchased a second house that I live in, it was it was a little bit of a stretch to do so. And times were different, right? Interest rates were lower. So it’s hard to even say this because other people might be in a really different situation given real estate now. But Purchasing that tiny little first house, it felt scary because it was a little bit of a stretch financially for me, but man, has it worked out.
21:55.49
Hannah Clark
And I got in when things sort of before they got worse. And so um that that’s provided some security for me. And so I think that’s one of the best financial investments I’ve made.
22:06.76
Hannah Clark
Yeah.
22:07.22
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
22:08.26
Hannah Clark
Yeah.
22:08.48
Lorie Jones
That’s a really great one and a good example.
22:08.89
Hannah Clark
it’s really
22:11.04
Lorie Jones
I do. I have some of my kids where I’m like, um they’re just barely purchasing their first house and they’re really young. Do you know that first house purchases now are on average, I think in Colorado between like 36 and 42 years old before you purchase your first house.
22:30.70
Hannah Clark
Wow.
22:32.78
Lorie Jones
I just
22:32.98
Hannah Clark
I mean, it makes sense. Things are so expensive. And, you know, we see this in our cases a lot too. Like it it really affects the divorce because nobody wants out of the house because the interest rate on the new house or refinancing this house is going to be insane. And so,
22:48.67
Hannah Clark
It puts so many people in a bind. So I’m not surprised. It’s really sad, but I’m not not surprised, I suppose. Yeah.
22:55.21
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. But I love watching um those young adults as they get into their first house, because it really is a way to kind of build wealth and and grow. um So that’s neat.
23:05.55
Lorie Jones
I think that’s great.
23:06.01
Hannah Clark
Yeah. yeah
23:07.15
Lorie Jones
um What scared you the most when you started out on your journey? And does it still scare you today? Or did you did you or does it not?
23:16.05
Hannah Clark
Yeah. I mean, i think back to when I graduated law school and took my first job um and literally being handed cases is like being handed people’s lives. They’re in your hands.
23:30.61
Hannah Clark
And, you know, I’m not a criminal defense attorney where literally somebody’s life is on the line. Right. But in in a divorce, I mean, we’re talking about parenting time and kids, you know, how do we make decisions about the kids and,
23:42.30
Hannah Clark
What, you know, is there domestic violence going on? And somebody’s entire retirement is at stake, everything they’ve worked for. So I do feel like people’s lives were in my hand. So so as a baby attorney, i just did not have the confidence.
23:56.17
Hannah Clark
Um, i I really didn’t. i was scared to give legal advice because I just hadn’t seen everything I needed to see. um and so the confidence was lacking. And so, i mean, what I did for that was I just would double check with um people who knew more than me, you know, always talk to somebody smarter than you. um And that’s what I did. And so,
24:15.86
Hannah Clark
My confidence really, really got there probably after, you know, probably a year and a half, two years in family law. That’s when I really hit that stride. um And of course, ever since then, my my confidence in my practice of the law has only grown, right? The more you see, and the more you know, the better at it you get.
24:34.22
Hannah Clark
um And as a divorce attorney, you really have to have enough confidence to um kind of tell your clients how it is. Um, you need to steer the ship.
24:44.85
Hannah Clark
Um, and so you have to be confident enough that even though they’re telling you they want a hundred percent of the parenting time, you have to be able tell them that’s not going to happen.
24:55.99
Hannah Clark
um setting expectations, steering that ship. And so when I am training baby attorneys, I tell them, I promise you, once you hit that confidence stride, your life gets so much easier.
25:08.25
Hannah Clark
um Obviously, client services get better, but also just your work-life balance, your stress level, all of that gets much better. So I’m glad i’m glad I went through that and I can use it as a, you know, sort of a training for for other younger attorneys going through it.
25:22.31
Hannah Clark
Thank you.
25:23.20
Lorie Jones
And do you tell them just to ask a bunch of questions or is there any like shortcut to getting in confidence? Because, you know, that idea of like imposter syndrome or not being good enough or that comes up over and over and over again in young people’s, you know, career journeys. Like, how do you how do you get past that stage?
25:43.28
Lorie Jones
I know you can’t necessarily skip it, but is there ways to get past it faster?
25:48.93
Hannah Clark
Yeah, and you know some people just get it faster than others. you know a lot of people burn out of family law. um you know It’s tough. it’s It’s a tough job to have. And and some of those people, I think, burn out before they’ve reached that confidence, that stride I’m talking about, um which is always sad to see because maybe they would have gotten there.
26:08.34
Hannah Clark
um you know One person I trained um wanted to read every single word of every single statute and law. And that wasn’t how I learned, but that is how she learned. And her confidence went way up after doing that, right? Because she felt like she knew the statute at any given moment, she could cite Um, other people just need to observe a lot.
26:30.28
Hannah Clark
They need to know that it’s okay to tell an opposing counsel. Absolutely not. Right. They need to tell, ah they need to be able to tell a client, um, and set those expectations. So think some people learn in different ways, um,
26:44.38
Hannah Clark
Mine was really when I when i realized i I needed to do some client control, right? And then I had the smarts to do that. And so I think that made me be able to control the case a little bit more, um which gave me even more confident and like self self-cycled, right? um Yeah, I think, and not everyone is made for family law.
27:06.13
Hannah Clark
um And so that’s okay too, right? Some people do a career change and, um you know, they never, maybe they never did get that confidence level. I think for people looking for divorce attorneys, you need to be talking to an attorney who comes across as comfortable and confident, not confident, arrogant. Any part of confidence is saying, i don’t know the answer to that, or I don’t know what a judge would do in this circumstance. It’s complicated.
27:30.93
Hannah Clark
But you’ve got to feel comfortable with your attorney and and have that confidence in them in a non-arrogant way.
27:39.09
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. And I like that. Most of the examples that you gave are are things that you can do, like there are things you have control over, you go ahead and watch, you know, go sit in on somebody else’s trials and watch how they do things, you know, you.
27:56.24
Lorie Jones
read the books, you read the statutes, you, you know, those sorts of things. Those are all things that you can do yourself. It’s not up to somebody else. It’s up to you and how much, you know, effort you put into it.
28:07.60
Hannah Clark
Right. Right. And having a good mentor or somebody good that’s training you um Again, part of forging myself into a management role was partly seeing that the new attorneys coming in you know didn’t get training. I didn’t get much training. i was kind of thrown to the wolves. And so wanting so badly to train people to get them to that confidence level faster because otherwise we’re going to lose them as a firm.
28:34.74
Hannah Clark
So not only is it in our best interest, it’s in this person’s best interest, our client’s best interest. So we, we at the reputation law group rely heavily on very in-depth training.
28:45.43
Hannah Clark
a lot of firms don’t do that, right? Because when somebody is training, um they’re not billing, but that’s not all that matters. So we invest heavily in in training and I think it can get people there quicker.
28:57.16
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I agree. And I think that, um you know, I do a ah class on Fridays and I’ve done it with like for years and years now. where I’ll take anyone that wants to learn, you know, how to pass their 65 or get those licenses.
29:14.05
Lorie Jones
And will kind of just do tutoring because I wanted, with you know, like I was, I too was kind of thrown to the wolves.
29:14.31
Hannah Clark
Yeah.
29:22.90
Lorie Jones
Here’s your study book. Yeah, we’re not going to we’re not going to explain any of this to you, but good luck. i hope you pass, you know, and
29:29.13
Hannah Clark
Yeah.
29:31.22
Lorie Jones
You’re like, I wish someone could just explain what’s going on here, what to expect, or just help a little bit. and And I love that.
29:43.08
Lorie Jones
you emphasize that that that brings better people to the industry. It helps those people stay in the industry. And it it just rises.
29:50.30
Hannah Clark
Yes.
29:52.62
Lorie Jones
It floats all boats, right? Everybody gets a little bit better. You get a little bit better because you’re teaching these sorts of things. so
29:59.79
Hannah Clark
Yeah.
30:00.45
Lorie Jones
these questions that these um new, young, fresh you know talent are asking, those are questions that maybe you should have asked too, or that you should know the answer to.
30:10.75
Hannah Clark
Oh, for sure, yeah.
30:11.44
Lorie Jones
So I love that.
30:13.52
Hannah Clark
the the baby attorney that I mentioned earlier who loved who loved to read every single word, it was so helpful. and i don’t have to read the statute all that often anymore, right? I think I know it.
30:24.38
Hannah Clark
And so she would be like, well, but the statute actually says this. I’m like, oh, well, no attorneys are using that part of the statute. And so she literally found an angle um And, i you know, I love what you said, floats all boats, right? It then wrote, it made me get better um because she’s over here reading every word.
30:42.85
Hannah Clark
And she’s our expert now. So ah still love that she does that.
30:47.17
Lorie Jones
but Yeah. Yeah. It’s so great. And it’s great to watch them develop too, as I kind of think of it a little bit, this mentoring idea as just professional parenting, you know, because, because that’s what you’re doing. You’re kind of just helping grow um baby attorneys or baby financial planners into these amazing people that they’re going to become and watching them achieve their, their goals and dreams. That’s really empowering too.
31:16.67
Hannah Clark
It is. Yeah, it’s it’s the best. It really is. We have an associate starting in January. um So that’ll be our first non-owner attorney at at this new firm. And yeah, can’t wait. you know, she’s she’s experienced in litigation, but to train her in family law, again, will make all of us better. um And, you know, then I’m just so excited for her future here.
31:37.73
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. What did you face any unique challenges because you were a woman?
31:45.44
Hannah Clark
Of course, right? All of us. um Yeah, I mean, both in the workplace and in the practice of law, um you know, it it is historically male-dominated. I do think in family law, it’s getting better than other areas of the law where I think it still is very heavily male-dominated.
32:05.23
Hannah Clark
um But just that condescending tone towards female attorneys happens a lot. um with opposing counsels.
32:15.75
Hannah Clark
um And it’s frustrating and it’s complicated on so many levels. It’s personally frustrating. um It is also somewhat embarrassing if your client is seeing or hearing this happen, right? We want to be strong for our clients.
32:32.73
Hannah Clark
um And so I think when an opposing counsel is sort of being misogynistic, it it it’s awkward to navigate, right? Because you’re trying to be professional. You’re taking the higher road.
32:45.82
Hannah Clark
You also need to look strong for your client. So it’s just a lot to navigate. it’s It’s one of the worst parts, I’m sure, i’m sure of anyone’s job as as a female, but certainly dealing with with opposing counsels,
32:59.72
Hannah Clark
that just automatically think they know better because they are a man. it’s It’s extremely frustrating.
33:03.10
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
33:05.84
Hannah Clark
And sometimes it can have an effect on the actual case. which is heartbreaking for clients. um You know, that sort of ego, if you will, should not stand in the way of um two divorcing people reaching an agreement, for example.
33:11.59
Lorie Jones
you
33:20.65
Hannah Clark
um But it could, you know, so I don’t let that affect my side of the street. But I can sort of see how the opposing counsel maybe is interfering with an agreement that their client actually wants to make.
33:32.87
Hannah Clark
And we’re talking about real people’s lives. Again, we’ve got these people’s lives in our hands. So it’s it’s sad. it it’s It doesn’t float anyone’s boat. No.
33:42.57
Lorie Jones
It doesn’t make anybody better, right? Yeah.
33:45.29
Hannah Clark
No.
33:45.44
Lorie Jones
Yeah. um How do you deal with it? Is there is there a way that you,
33:52.26
Lorie Jones
ah i just, is there a way that you can deal with it? Is there a way that you, words that you speak or some manner that you have that you’re like, kind of put that down or?
34:05.65
Hannah Clark
Yeah, I mean, i think sometimes I’ve just got to act like, i just have to ignore it all, right? I look for the substance in their email.
34:11.84
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
34:14.55
Hannah Clark
What are they actually talking about as it relates to the case?
34:14.73
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
34:18.87
Hannah Clark
um And are they right? um And if they’re not, I’m pointing that out. You know, ah probably each of my partners would agree that there maybe has been one or two times in our career where we we have to email the attorney and say,
34:34.71
Hannah Clark
this was inappropriate. um Don’t speak to me like that. You know, it’s not helpful to the clients, um whatever the thing is. So in as professional as a way as we can, but every once while it reaches a level that is just so, so unprofessional that it needs to be called out.
34:53.27
Hannah Clark
um if this was just, if I was doing my own divorce case, I think I could say a lot more, right? But because i I’m really just a client’s agent I just try not to um meet it at all. I try not to go there at all. I just look for what will actually keep the case moving forward from this email and let me focus on that.
35:16.52
Lorie Jones
That’s interesting. That’s it’s, it’s a hard thing to navigate and you have to navigate it in all sorts of different industries. So it’s interesting and it’s kind of sad.
35:27.43
Lorie Jones
Isn’t it a little sad that still in 2025, we get the bad actors that, that come at us with that kind of energy. Yeah.
35:35.44
Hannah Clark
Oh yeah. And when I was, you know, first starting as an attorney, I thought was, I mean, it was extra hard cause I was younger and a female. Right. So i think it’s been a little bit better just because, you know, now I’m starting to have wrinkles and stuff.
35:44.74
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
35:49.53
Hannah Clark
Um, but, but it still exists, you know, and I don’t know if it’ll ever go away. um so i think we just have to maintain our professionalism and being reasonable.
36:01.53
Hannah Clark
and knowing what we’re talking about. Sometimes it seems like it’s coming from places they don’t know what they’re talking about. And instead of admitting that, they’re sort of doubling down. So maybe it’ll already it always exist. Maybe it’ll get better. it is, you know, part of that is just having more um female family law attorneys. That alone just, oops.
36:20.16
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, it does. Hannah, what is the thing you are most proud of?
36:25.92
Hannah Clark
you
36:28.92
Hannah Clark
oh honestly, starting this business, um it just feels like my baby. i recently went um to a wedding um and I was gone about a week and I was missing my baby. You know, i love this business.
36:43.32
Hannah Clark
I love what we stand for. And i just didn’t have, you know, despite the confidence I’ve talked about earlier today as a family law attorney, I did not have What I thought was the confidence necessary to start a business because that’s not something I always wanted to do some people um Always know that they they want to start a business. That’s their goal. That was never my goal.
37:07.95
Hannah Clark
and But I think in some ways that makes me even a better business owner um and because it it wasn’t about ego or just a goal or or money. That’s not why we started this.
37:20.34
Hannah Clark
um So best thing I’ve ever done. and And I’m so proud because we’ve done well and I’m so proud of my fellow co-founders. We’re able to be friends and have difficult conversations and be successful and listen to each other’s ideas and And I think part of that is because we are for women. um And so it’s been a journey. It’s stressful. We’re busy, but it really is so fun.
37:45.75
Hannah Clark
um And I just never thought I could do it. And here I am. And so I’m very proud of us. It’s been the best.
37:52.57
Lorie Jones
I love that. I love that you’re like, it’s fun.
37:53.08
Hannah Clark
and
37:55.75
Lorie Jones
You know, it’s ah it’s been a journey, but it’s fun because I do think that you spend weeks and hours every day and years of your life doing this thing that you call a profession.
38:08.04
Lorie Jones
Like you gotta love it just a little bit, don’t you?
38:11.56
Hannah Clark
Yeah. And we have to show it love. You know, we remind ourselves because when we do get really, really busy, it’s, you know, we don’t have time for our owners meeting or we don’t do the retreat we plan to do or we don’t read the book like five dysfunctions.
38:26.88
Hannah Clark
Um, you know, we’re investing in in a business coach. so So far, I think we’ve been good at reminding ourselves that having fun, putting love into the business, um, is all ultimately not only good for us, but good for the business and for our employees and and clients. Um, we plan to do this for the rest of our life. So if it’s not fun, don’t want to be doing it right. I mean, we can just go have a normal job and not have the stress of owning a business. So it it better be fun in my opinion. And it’s cool that we get to,
38:56.82
Hannah Clark
make it what we want. um and And that’s been the best part. You know, um we feel so empowered. And I think that had been um sort of dissipating for all of us until we made this jump. So.
39:11.75
Lorie Jones
is there Is there any tips or tricks you would say for working with a group that you, you you know, you said we’re friends as well, um but is there anything that you found where there’s some some sticky bits where you’re like, ooh,
39:12.89
Hannah Clark
and
39:28.84
Lorie Jones
you know, put this parameter in place or put these rules in place and and you can get through those kind of more hard to navigate conversations and maintain friends and fun.
39:40.98
Hannah Clark
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, part of it is, i think, giving ourselves time to make decisions, right? We will have some difficult conversations. And um we started this and in sort of a rushed way. And so we threw together a temporary operating agreement.
39:58.30
Hannah Clark
For example, we are spending a lot of time creating a new operating agreement. um We’re not rushing into that because a lot of difficult conversations come for that come from that.
40:09.27
Hannah Clark
Same thing with compensation. We, and I’m not sure everyone would do this, but for this first year, we just agreed from this from the get, we’re all dividing all the compensation equally this first year.
40:19.96
Hannah Clark
Because everyone’s just pouring their blood, sweat, and tears into this business, right?
40:23.65
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
40:24.60
Hannah Clark
And none of us can do it without the other. And so maybe one person’s billing the most, but maybe somebody else is the one maintaining our budget, right? And so or we’re coming up with new marketing ideas. So all of these things are so valuable. So figuring out compensation moving forward is a difficult conversation. We’re just giving ourselves time.
40:44.50
Hannah Clark
we are We are bringing on a ah business coach, so that should be helpful. You know, the five dysfunctions of a team, i what we found is our most difficult dysfunction is is sort of that fear of conflict and being honest, right? That book was like, you just have to be so honest.
41:04.10
Hannah Clark
And I think women in general… don’t do as good of a job as this. And it’s so sad, but it’s no true.
41:10.28
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
41:12.17
Hannah Clark
um you know We’re told that we’re ah bitch or overpowering if we in so you know instigate conflict, even in a healthy way, right?
41:22.34
Hannah Clark
But bring up an issue that’s been brewing or um we’re too honest.
41:23.30
Lorie Jones
um
41:27.30
Hannah Clark
i mean I mean, we’ve all heard that. I’m sure all of your listeners have as well. And so It’s good to be aware of that. um And, you know, we want to overcome that. And so we actively work on it.
41:38.82
Hannah Clark
And it’s nice to read a book um or have a business coach because then you can almost rely on that, right? I can say, remember, pursuing five dysfunctions, right?
41:44.70
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
41:47.90
Hannah Clark
We have to be really honest. So I’m about to bring this thing up Um, and that gives us some foundation. Um, we also though, like we like taking personality tests and talking about our astrological signs.
42:01.29
Hannah Clark
Um, again, maybe that’s something women like more than men, but I think those personality tests are so telling. And so then when you’re dealing with one another, um you remember what somebody’s enneagram is, or are they an extrovert or introvert? There’s so much can come from that and it can help, um,
42:19.11
Hannah Clark
our sort of conflict resolution and our meetings. So yeah, those are some things we’ve done that are helpful, I think.
42:22.25
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
42:25.30
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I think that’s so interesting. I do. I like a lot of the the different personality tests or the different ways we work, the working genius, the disk profile, like all those sorts of things, because I have a um an admin assistant and
42:34.80
Hannah Clark
Yes.
42:40.42
Lorie Jones
Like if you told me a, as an assistant that I would get to go to a conference, that would be like the best, you know, i that would be a really great treat for me. I would love it for her.
42:51.02
Lorie Jones
It’s like her worst nightmare in person.
42:51.09
Hannah Clark
Right.
42:53.82
Lorie Jones
She’s like, I am never going near a conference. Do not send me to any where I have to talk to people, you know? And, and, and I think that that’s, it’s important because that way I know like, that’s not, that’s not the, the,
43:09.57
Lorie Jones
that’s not a treat for her. That’s not a positive. That’s not a, that’s not something that’s going to uplift her. It’s something that’s going to send her into anguish, you know? So, so, and, and it’s part of my job to know that about her.
43:20.52
Hannah Clark
Right.
43:24.00
Lorie Jones
And so I like that. I like that you brought that up.
43:25.30
Hannah Clark
Yeah. Yeah. Just know what really drives people. And we talked about that in the first week of starting this business was what mostly drives each of us. And you know, i think it’s easy to just project what drives you onto everyone else.
43:41.09
Hannah Clark
it seems so obvious, like, of course, that’s how what keeps me driven. And I, we all had different answers. And one person’s answer, I was like, that would be my last answer, right? it’s The thing that drives me the least.
43:52.78
Hannah Clark
And that was their number one.
43:52.82
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
43:53.78
Hannah Clark
And so knowing that about each other is super, super helpful. It also tells us what our respective strengths are. And We can divvy up responsibilities that way. So, yeah. So, I mean, owning a business with three other people does not mean it’s easy, you know, but I couldn’t do it without them. I would so much rather own this with them than on my own.
44:14.76
Hannah Clark
You know being a solo is not something would be interested in. So, I love it.
44:18.14
Lorie Jones
oh
44:20.71
Lorie Jones
so Well, thank you so much, Hannah, so much for for going through your story for us. Do you have any advice for a young lady who might be just starting out on this career that you’re already so successful at to help her be successful?
44:33.82
Hannah Clark
Yeah, I mean, I think we’ve talked about it a few times, but listen to your gut. And maybe that sounds so basic, but it’s true. um Listen to your gut in terms of, is this the workplace for you?
44:47.01
Hannah Clark
you know, I think a lot of us, it’s almost like some of my clients who stay in a relationship too long, right? They may be staying in a workplace that’s not beneficial to them, not healthy for them.
44:58.44
Hannah Clark
um Listen to your gut about what your strengths are and what your passion is, right? If I hadn’t forged my way into the management role, I wouldn’t have ever realized that that is what I love. I love it. um Maybe more than being a divorce attorney or maybe equally.
45:11.99
Lorie Jones
right.
45:13.10
Hannah Clark
So, um Yeah, and and you know hit that confidence stride and just talk to experts. um It’s okay to say you don’t know. um i think it’s I think fake it till you make it is true to a certain extent. You’ve got to sort of tell yourself to be confident, but I also think it’s okay to say you don’t know and to find out from someone smarter than you. um My advice on a personal level for for younger women or really for any women is get a prenup.
45:42.72
Hannah Clark
ah That’s the divorce attorney in me, I know, but at least talk to an attorney before you get married. i just cannot not express enough.
45:54.06
Hannah Clark
I am now seeing so many women lose some of their estate and their worth that they have invested in and worked so hard for, probably worked harder than their male counterpart for, and because they didn’t get a prenup or because they didn’t talk to an attorney before getting married,
46:11.73
Hannah Clark
they are at risk of losing it. So that is like truly my passion project is um making sure women are educated before getting married. You are entering into a legal contract. So take it seriously.
46:24.28
Hannah Clark
not
46:24.66
Lorie Jones
Amen. I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much, Hannah, for spending some time with us and just sharing it with us your journey and your story. I’ve really appreciated it.
46:36.46
Lorie Jones
If I have a young listener who wants to get in touch with you, how does she get ahold of you?
46:40.87
Hannah Clark
Oh, that would be so awesome. um They can find me at the reputationlawgroup.com. They can also email me. It’s Hannah, H-A-N-N-A-H, at the reputationlawgroup.com.
46:53.84
Hannah Clark
um Happy to mentor or to train or, again, to give legal advice. And thanks for having me, Lori. This was a blast, and you’re so good at what you do. All
47:03.33
Lorie Jones
Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Thanks so much, Hannah.
47:06.32
Hannah Clark
right, thanks.