Get ready for another fearless episode with Cindy Grove, a titan in the banking industry. Discover how Cindy climbed the ranks from a fresh graduate in tough economic times to a revered senior vice president, all while overcoming the systemic challenges of gender bias and unequal pay.
Tune in to absorb her secrets on building lasting relationships in business, mastering the art of networking, and why picking up horse jumping at 50 reflects the spirit every ambitious woman should carry.
Don’t miss out on these vital lessons and inspiring stories. Join us on Fearless Females and fuel your journey to the top!
Show Highlights:
- Follow fearless Cindy Grove’s incredible story in banking. [00:05:22]
- Discover how relevant mentors break ground for women. [00:09:40]
- Insights into the staffing and skill gap in banking. [00:13:30]
- The power of early adoption of new tech and skills. [00:16:47]
- Delve into the wisdom of critically evaluating advice. [00:19:04]
- Assertive Communication 101 for your savvy uptake. [00:21:50]
- Tips on impostor syndrome for young professionals. [00:28:12]
- Lessons in the virtue of embracing good discomfort. [00:30:09]
- Is it better to have children fearlessly despite a career? [00:40:04]
- Unlock clear guidance for financial career aspirants. [00:44:39]
For more information or to connect with Cindy Grove: https://www.mvbofc.com/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/cindygrove/
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review! For more information about Lorie Jones, go to http://fearless-females.com/.
00:02.10
loriejones7
Good morning so we are here today with ah Cindy Grove she is the senior vice president and relationship manager for Mountain View Bank of commerce and I am super excited to have you on the show with us today. Sandy thank you so much for joining.
00:16.50
Cindy Grove
Well thank you for having me Laurie I appreciate it cited to to answer any questions I possibly can. We'll see what we come up with.
00:25.40
loriejones7
Ah I'm I'm sure. Well we got it figured out. So ah, so my first question is always um, what's your favorite book I love reading I've got a ton of books that and now as I ask this question I've got my stack is just ginormous. But.
00:30.64
Cindy Grove
Um, okay.
00:42.67
Cindy Grove
Um, favorite books are hard and and I love asking that of people because I I actually I'm in a book club. It is hard to find time to read and.
00:44.12
loriejones7
What do you love.
00:55.85
Cindy Grove
And no matter where you are in your career what time in life. So if you make a commitment to it. That's great I can't but I am in love with Audiobook books because I drive all the time and so audiobooks are a great way for me to enjoy.
00:56.20
loriejones7
Um.
01:13.19
Cindy Grove
Things that I wouldn't normally listen to so within the business community people are always recommending business books. Um, but 1 that um I like is Malcolm call calledwell outliers that was a very interesting book. It's very different perspective. Um.
01:23.19
loriejones7
Oh.
01:30.52
Cindy Grove
The the other one are anything Simon Sinek and there are books their podcasts that he puts out and and I'm speaking to an audience that I assume are professional women who are building upon their careers. There are many books to do and work with there. Um, give and take. Great! Great book and I'm missing the author Adam and it's on the top of tip of my tongue and I didn't write it down but the other one I've read recently is the alchemist and it's kind of interesting. It's an old book that popped back up in the book club wanted to read that it's a short quick read.
01:57.51
loriejones7
Um, and yeah.
02:10.11
Cindy Grove
I've enjoyed that one I think there are many out there to continuously look for the book that fits that moment. Um during the pandemic my family and I were stuck ah for 2 years at home for various reasons. And didn't travel or didn't do anything had the opportunity to go on a beach vacation reached out to a friend I said I want the the book that's going to make me laugh the most and be nothing about business and it was.
02:39.36
loriejones7
Um, and.
02:40.28
Cindy Grove
It was a crazy title but it was um, erotic stories by punjami with punjabi widows but it's a whole book about the indian culture in London and these widows learning to read and write in english.
02:50.13
loriejones7
It.
02:56.92
Cindy Grove
The title is catchy but it's a very fascinating who done it at the same time.. It's also this a very endearing story but it was very culturally telling of how these women live in a subculture. Within a culture that we're probably all used to living it. It was the perfect book I enjoyed it. She was a great recommendation.
03:18.35
loriejones7
That's good. Those are great suggestions I've read I kind of feel like we're sharing the same brain with the outliers and the simon sinnic I always am trying to channel ah Simon Sinnic and almost you know everything I do with leadership and and the outliers is one that I've read recently. So i'll.
03:24.81
Cindy Grove
Um, ah.
03:30.32
Cindy Grove
Please.
03:35.61
loriejones7
Second the recommendation of both of those. Thank you.
03:38.54
Cindy Grove
It's it's fascinating the 10000 hours to get good at something and when you start counting up the hours you've worked it. Maybe the 1 thing you go I just can't break through and you realize I'm not even near 10000 hours yet so it's like. Okay I got more to go I can set that goal.
03:54.34
loriejones7
Yeah, and if my hobbies are anything to go by I I I deep dive into whatever it is I'm doing and then I change my mind about three months later so as far as hobbies go like my career is set but my hobbies I'm all over the place. So so tell me a little bit about.
04:08.25
Cindy Grove
There you go.
04:13.56
loriejones7
Your journey. How did you get where you are today and um, you know what kind of what do you do give me like an abbreviated version. What? how'd you get there.
04:22.66
Cindy Grove
Well first of all so as you mentioned I'm with mountain view bank of commerce I'm a commercial lender. Um, and for those not in the banking world. The first lenders. We usually think of or we come in touch with or. They either helped us with our auto loan at a credit union or a personal loan. Oh gosh I am so sorry um, didn't think about that phone being on personal loan. Um, but ah, a big one is mortgage lenders that do personal residential loans.
04:42.69
loriejones7
Ah, that's all right.
04:53.18
Cindy Grove
They're certainly commercial real estate loans what I work on are with small to midsized businesses on business loans for business owners either. They're acquiring. They're getting started. They're emerging these are operating lines of credit that help them with accounts receivable inventory. And equipment along with buying their buildings but pretty much not ah 1 off by a car I don't talk to you again until you buy a car in 5 years this is a cradle to grave where I help businesses that are. Growing and going through a life cycle and I've had clients for over twenty years that were going through different iterations of that business and helping them manage kind of a financial planner on the banking side.
05:38.15
loriejones7
Yeah, that's so interesting I Love that you talk about like that relationship that you're building you know, being like kind of an ongoing one. So how did you did you know when you were little that you wanted to be a banker.
05:46.00
Cindy Grove
Um, from here.
05:51.54
Cindy Grove
I don't think anybody goes even to high school. Let alone grade school and says I want to be a banker I was probably not even a thought in my mind I had a roommate in college that actually became a bank teller. And and my standard was not fast. Food. It was working in retail. Um, my career was a different path at the time but I graduated in a period in a recession very similar to what maybe some here have gone through in 2009 you're coming fresh out of college. There are no jobs wages have declined. We're not in a strong economy and nobody wants to hire you without experience. Nobody wants to pay you. Um and it's a tough place to be in. Um, so that's kind of. While I had been through some training programs in my field and I thought it was going to be in retail with large department stores. Um in the buying offices and that was something I was very interested in in San Francisco California but it was the comment of well you know nobody was going to take that that was all. Drifting companies were moving out of California into Arizona and we came to Colorado and we came to Colorado to ski I was looking for something with good days off if I'm going to not make a lot of money. Let's at least have fun. So banks had great days off they talk about bankers hours which are not.
07:20.59
Cindy Grove
Not nine to 3 they're 7 is 8 ight at night but at the same time it was something that gave me the opportunity to enjoy everything colorado had to offer and never intended that that was going to be the longstanding career. However, once I got into it. There were mentors along the way there were things that I really enjoyed about the customer service aspect of it. Um, it would be too long for here. Um I think we'll touch on it and some of the other questions but it's just teach yourself learn everything try and take advantage of all that's offered to you. And I had a wonderful person who saw something in me and she mentored mentored me into the world that I ultimately ended up in but at the time interest rates for a new home were nineteen and a half percent I know we freak out over 7 and eight percent right now. But. It was 19.5% for a new home and you had to come up with 20% down. So the mortgage desk was a little bit empty and but a savings and loan then had to take applications so they sat me at a desk so I could take applications and I just sat there and I taught myself about it. So. Wave is fun.
08:34.59
loriejones7
Oh Wow Oh yeah I That's my point Finance is fun, finance is fun. So I love that I I hope we touch. We're going to touch later on I think about ah you mentioned that you had a.
08:41.33
Cindy Grove
Um, yes.
08:50.26
Cindy Grove
Um, was there.
08:50.85
loriejones7
Tour or someone that kind of helped you through that and you said she and you know back in if she was working in finance back then she must have been one of the the you know the there weren't very many others. Let's say that.
09:04.37
Cindy Grove
She was there were there were not um and banking's always been an interesting industry and there are a lot of corporate positions that have been 2 tears. There's what in the old old days of the. 70 s and eighty s the secretarial pool and then the Ceo csuite offices and that was the glass ceiling. My men were not breaking through that but I was hired by a woman who was in ahhr at the time and she was a vice president in the bank and worked. For a branch manager who'd gone the same career path I had she had been in retail large department stores ran large departments and ultimately ended up running this branch of this bank and that was fascinating so she saw that I was kind of going down the same road but retail is another. Another career path that had demands on it at the time that were not family oriented were not It was a very difficult cutthroat you changed jobs quite often and moved around um gypsy type lifestyle back then. And that was not something I wanted. It wasn't something she wanted either but she just impressed me. Um, she was smart. She was sharp. She was having fun and she was just very self-confident and casual at a time where women were.
10:28.71
Cindy Grove
That that was hard to find because they weren't finding those positions and I just remember just really watching her like you know like a young person might and learned a lot from her. She was great. Um, having a mentor in your life having a mentor around you in your career. Don't necessarily mentor you on everything you do, but they're important and it's not just one. You'll have many throughout but I find them find those confidants who are not a direct.. You're not a direct report to but people that are outside looking in. And they're great. Their perspectives are very very helpful but you're correct it was. It was not an easy time for women in any job back then.
11:12.50
loriejones7
Yeah, that's so interesting. So Cindy as you look back and you kind of look back over your trajectory and where you came from. Is there an investment that you made in yourself that you were like oh I'm so glad I did that that just really made the difference in where I ended up.
11:32.15
Cindy Grove
Well at the time um going back and getting my masters and and that's probably my one regret though I don't any poor but it was a regret There was not the ability to take the break and not. Go to school. There weren't loans available for it at the time getting a master's degree was pretty tough. So with that. The banking world offers banking school which is the equivalent semi equivalent of it at various universities and the bank invested in me. I jumped at that opportunity. So there were several opportunities over over the years to attend university in New Mexico um University Of Oklahoma southern methodist university down in Texas any time that was offered an especially employer paid or partial paid. They were huge to my career even later in life I participated in a program with a large regional bank that for six months sent me out to California and I was out there for a week with a group of people with the credit underwriting group and it was just a fantastic opportunity. When those come your way you make it happen. It wasn't easy I had infants doing some of this so it was but it was still worth it and my family supported me in it. So I'm grateful that I did that.
12:54.75
loriejones7
So is it was it the educational piece or what you learned or was it the network that you built or a little bit of everything like what made that such an important investment.
13:02.25
Cindy Grove
And it was more what what I learned in in my industry there have been deserts where the training wasn't offered banks change quite a bit. You know they get bought by another bank. 1 fails 1 continues 1 gobbles up, not everybody has offered those credit programs while they were available in the 70 s and early eighty s by the 90 s they went away the early two thousand s they weren't around and then they started to come back. Um, so it's an evolution of what corporate will invest in it's you know they're looking at their bottom line. Do we have the money to do this What's interesting about corporate is they look out the window every few few decades and realize we don't have the next generation coming forward. That is a serious issue in many industries right now that's not just banking. There is a definite ah hole in the system where they didn't train. We didn't train people to come forward. Plus we have a lot of people staying longer in the workforce. So. Young people went and found other jobs. It's been a fascinating change but banking and and finance is an interesting area that if you get the opportunity you take it sometimes it can be networking definitely when you're doing local programs within your area.
14:31.84
Cindy Grove
Um, can't recommend enough if for those that have gone to see you boulder see you Denver? Ah, do you anybody in Colorado here they have a network immediately There are also leadership programs within the various communities. Um that I would. Strongly recommend within your community and that's a great way to network but the type of training I was doing knowledge I was trying to gain was actual understanding of the financial system economics accounting digging in deeper to risk management I wanted to understand those things. Too often in many worlds people become great networkers and business developers if they don't understand what they're selling and how it works and how to relate that then there. It's very difficult for them to be consultive to the clients that they're working with it's it's. Digging in and looking at how the sausage is made I think that is incredibly important and even to this day I watch those individuals that they don't that is not their thing and they're not going to do it and if they can sell in their business developers and that's what they want to do more power to them. My um, my sense of security is knowing I can look at financial statements I can read them I can understand what's going on in that company. That's big.
15:53.81
loriejones7
Yeah, that I think that's really an important distinction too is that is that you have to have a base knowledge like all the other skills that you need to learn on top of that like networking and mentoring and all those sorts of how to survive in business and Professions. You. Also need um, a really deep kind of knowledge or a base set of facts about what you're actually doing and sometimes and most times honestly I think that college doesn't quite prepare you for everything that you're going to be doing so some of those programs. You You do need the college as well. But some of those programs where they give you the opportunity to go and learn more about your specific industry are pretty good.
16:29.94
Cindy Grove
Um, is it.
16:38.21
Cindy Grove
The way I look at College. Um, for for my adult children for myself and for others on my team. This is the place where you get to experience a lot of different things you kind of get to talk and get different perspectives on. The area of Expertise you want to be in whether that's engineering medicine or it's in business and business encompasses Everything That's the part. It's a very broad stroke of what do you learn. But when you start to understand what you're looking at and. Kind of get a feel for I think this is interesting to me. More importantly, you walk out knowing how to learn becoming a lifelong self-learner is huge that way you as the world changes which is changing faster every day, especially with technology you're able to.
17:19.86
loriejones7
This is.
17:33.72
Cindy Grove
Word got overused during the pandemic pivot with it but adjust go in the direction you want to go and follow the thing that's Interesting. You know they talk about in technology early adopters The most fascinating for me is ah. The whole cell phone Ipad world was new to me where I know I work with people. They've never known life without email or without cell phones. Um, but at the same time the minute it hit computers hit whatever it was dig in Learn. I Watched people resist it and probably those those women listening on this podcast have family members parents that they did not want to and I get that but that was not for me. It's something I want to embrace it I want to learn because these are tools are going to help. Me and my team do a better job and better relate to our clients.
18:31.40
loriejones7
yeah yeah I agree and I think that we're seeing some of that now with Ai we're seeing that come into all different industries and and it being a new ah brand new kind of cool thing but also something that you need to learn and get familiar with because it may change change the way.
18:45.60
Cindy Grove
You want to also understand the pitfalls to it too and they're there. So yeah, yeah, you're right.
18:53.20
loriejones7
Um, Cindy what is the worst advice that someone ever gave you and did you take the advice or did you learn from it.
19:06.15
Cindy Grove
Um, people in a position of trust I had a high school counselor tell me you don't want to take college prep courses. You're just you're just going to get married.. You're not, You're not going to wear that is in a decade where it was stated that way but there's probably something similar. It's.. It's the coach that tells you you really can't dance. Yes, she can. So. It's ah worst advice are are things that tell you um, don't they're there's cautionary advice and you and I've talked about cautionary advice.
19:26.14
loriejones7
Is it.
19:40.38
Cindy Grove
And understand all the risks and and rewards in that. But the worst advice was you don't need college. You don't don't do this the other one was was my mother um, who was a Cpa an accountant with ah her 10 key machine. But she says don't learn to type. They'll just make you a secretary today Keyboarding is so important that was a bad piece of advice. So I had to go back and learn that anyway I think it's evaluate what everybody is throwing at you. The thing I taught my my children. Was don't take advice from someone you wouldn't trade places with that's a big if if you're not if their situation or their understanding or how they're managing things that that's not for you then don't be very wary of that advice and that's the easiest way I think to gauge some of that.
20:29.55
loriejones7
Oh.
20:34.78
Cindy Grove
Because bad advice that you're going to get it all the time.. It's always out there. There are bosses that will have judgments of you um performance appraisals and valuations from from people who are. Maybe someone, You're not thrilled about working for and then you get your employee evaluation. They didn't see you for who you really were don't take that personally just understand where did it come from how do I manage that and how do I manage myself to what do I want? What's better for me and. Bring that forward. Um, just don't take everything at face value.
21:12.35
loriejones7
Oh I Really like that I like the idea too of like if you wouldn't trade places with them. Don't take that advice because because you do ask at least I do I ask advice from just about everyone. What would you do about this. What would you do about this. But if I'm if I don't want to be in their life.
21:23.76
Cindy Grove
Um.
21:31.72
loriejones7
Or or do what they're doing or they're not on the same trajectory that I'm at then sometimes you have to kind of take that with a ah grain of salt.
21:33.21
Cindy Grove
For them. The the simplest What is marital advice from a divorce person. It's like why? Why would you do that? It's just a simple analogy but it happens relationship advice from someone who doesn't have a relationship.
21:47.73
loriejones7
Yeah, see yeah they are.
21:55.53
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, yeah I probably was willing to give parental advice when I didn't have any children think like that you don't know what you don't know at that stage. Ah the so.
22:03.97
Cindy Grove
Exactly exactly and when you're in it and and even from parent to parent when you're in it it. It's a whole different world. It's giving yourself the opportunity to take a step backwards.
22:15.50
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, that's good thing Good thinking? What? Um, do you have something that you look back on in your and you're like I wish I would have done that differently. It's it. It's not I call them learning experiences some people call them regrets but is there something that if you could go back knowing what you know now you would have handled it differently.
22:43.13
Cindy Grove
I Think the only thing that has come to mind at times are that when um I let emotions lead versus my my brain. Um I get Frustrat if who doesn't we all get frustrated. We get angry. Um.
22:52.68
loriejones7
Is.
23:01.20
Cindy Grove
I joke that I'm the hotheaded irish italian and my hands start waving. It's be careful I pull myself back. It's learning that self-restraint that email you send off right away. Don't so. Especially in emails. It's a great place to let you want to let somebody else know in the organization. This didn't work this person did this this went wrong. The customer didn't get what they needed this is something we have to fix when you're when you're in the heat of the moment write it. Don't put an address on the email write it out always write the draft whether it's verbally or it's in in an email or on paper write the draft and set it aside and give it a few hours if not overnight 24 hours it can wait. You are better off looking at it later when cooler heads prevail rewriting it and looking for the other advice I give people is look for the win-win the world today in the outer world is all about win lose its opposites. Its constant friction. And it's like you can't you you can't find the common ground if you don't look for the win-win and and the win-win's not always easy. But when you start to learn to write that way speak that way think that way slow yourself down set it aside and then come back and tell.
24:30.92
Cindy Grove
That friend I didn't like how you handled that I didn't appreciate you saying that to me to that boss I didn't appreciate you circumventing me and telling the customer it was okay to do this when I've done your bidding and told them no we can't you know you you undermined me? um.
24:46.57
loriejones7
That.
24:49.73
Cindy Grove
Those are things to definitely get it off your chest. Don't let it stew. It's really something to it. It made you react it made you feel write it down but then sit on it and then rethink it and look for the win-win. How do I How do I present this of. I Thank you for empowering the customer and you know helping them get done what they need to get done I Also want to talk about the fact that that I I felt like that potentially made me look bad. How can I do this and you and I work together. So I can find the win-win for the customer the next time and. When we're building Networks and relationships that you know we want that. But that's where you be wary of those people who don't have your best interests in place because they they set you up for that. That's the other thing to look at because sometimes it's not your fault you got set up in that one So now. How do I avoid that going for it. How do I look for what was my control in that situation but just shooting it off and letting them know you may fully be in the right and they are in the wrong. But if they're the person in power and you are not by getting Angry. You give them your power.
25:48.46
loriejones7
Is.
26:01.98
loriejones7
Yeah, that's really interesting I've done that a couple of times where I've written a long email or text or something like that and I'm definitely going to write this wrong that has been done. This is I'm hotheaded and then I'll.
26:03.72
Cindy Grove
Don't give up your power.
26:18.68
loriejones7
I'll let it I will I'll let it fester in my drafts for a ah day or so and when I come back and look at it again I'm like oh that probably wouldn't have went over very well I'm so glad I waited.
26:26.79
Cindy Grove
No, it only takes sending one to the wrong person to learn but and that happens and and I have I have in my youth said something that probably was out of turn. Yes I was right.
26:34.28
loriejones7
Um, me.
26:45.40
Cindy Grove
I still think I'm right today but I had a ahs tell me it doesn't matter. You need to go fix that like okay.
26:45.10
loriejones7
Um, yeah.
26:50.49
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, and and I think that and the idea of Win-win situation. You know we're all trying to build relationships build Networks work with different people in different industries and. And that idea of how can I help them win as Well. That's really I think that's a powerful thing.
27:07.72
Cindy Grove
We have. In in banking the best 1 is the overdraft. The example nobody likes finding how they pounce to check at the bank right? and and in the days before online banking it meant that you came home from work on Friday night had. Ah, long week you're trying to get dinner on the table and you open up your mail and there's the and Nsf the overdraft notice at your bank and you have to stew on that and if you can't see it online and figure out what caused it you have to stew on that until Monday morning. Monday morning. The first person they call are the customer service representatives back then called tellers who have the least amount of control in the situation and and it's like us yelling at at the the self person or you know whoever the utility company.
28:03.18
loriejones7
And.
28:06.52
Cindy Grove
But we're talking to the lowest common denominator in that position. But what I told the staff that were in that position. Don't take it personally they're they're calling. They're upset. So if you put yourself in their position. The win is I know how upset you are let's see if we can figure out what it is. And that's when you get to kind of win it over today. It's the same thing somebody. It's their It's a business owner. It's their business. They're trying to make payroll. They're scared to death. We're just telling them. This is our rules. This is our policies that doesn't feel good. Um, let's. Let's talk it through get the right people in in the process and and try and help them. It just makes you better at customer service but it also makes you feel better because if you're able to find them that when they are loyal to you for life.
28:58.80
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, and it makes you better human like a better part of this world right? to to look for look for wins and look for ways to collaborate and help people. Ah I love that that's that's part I Love most right.
29:01.56
Cindy Grove
Um, yep, yep.
29:10.82
Cindy Grove
Um, yeah.
29:14.97
loriejones7
If You could go back and talk to yourself at the beginning of this journey. Um I think it's funny that you said that you had you know your high school counselor or whatever was telling you that you're not going to go to College. You're just going to get married Anyway. So So I think that like how would you go back and talk to that. That younger woman as she started on this Journey. What would you tell her? What would you tell your 20 year old. Love.
29:37.10
Cindy Grove
I Think the biggest thing is it it all It does is reinforce imposter syndrome which hearing a speaker talk about imposter syndrome. It's been so labeled to women but it's not. It's men too.
29:42.97
loriejones7
And.
29:52.99
Cindy Grove
Um, it just happened to be I guess the first study out of Finland or wherever it was they studied women only so that's how it got labeled us like thanks um, but imposter syndrome to anybody. Um, the thing that I look at with the 20 something is that that feeling of not being good enough. But. You are and note that you are but it's asking good questions. It's taking good notes. It goes back to the self learningarning. Um, it's just taking in everything you possibly can as a sponge and learning from it understanding of what you want to do. And move forward understand the job you're looking for if it's the high school counselor and I want to I know I want to go to college I researched the colleges by I had support at home I found the support elsewhere. It was just what I was learning to do very young was advocate for myself.
30:48.38
loriejones7
Is he.
30:50.23
Cindy Grove
I need this I need that okay, that may be what you're doing and what what you want to say but I really do need english this level I need the second level of that class and I need history I need this whatever it was that was part of the college transcripts requirement. And application requirements and just kind of blew him off. So I I did chose not to listen to him.
31:11.14
loriejones7
Um, I think the idea of advocating for yourself is really important and powerful too I had 1 of another one that I was interviewing another woman said basically nobody cares about your career your trajectory your life as much as you do so.
31:19.68
Cindy Grove
Um, the see oh.
31:28.35
loriejones7
Stand up and make sure that you're advocating for you.
31:32.11
Cindy Grove
Yep yep, exactly.
31:34.18
loriejones7
So as you started down the road. What scared you the most when you started your career and does it still scare you or did you learn how to deal with it.
31:47.18
Cindy Grove
Um, networking losing my snob not making my goals I'm failing failure is scary. Um, if you haven't experienced a lot of failure.
31:50.76
loriejones7
Um, okay.
31:56.10
loriejones7
Ah.
32:00.26
Cindy Grove
And and we all do but failure where I mean school I had been successful at school So failure was not something in that area that I was fully comfortable with um, but all of a sudden having sales goals that kind of thing that was a little nerve wracking for me would have been very. Easy to fall back into just processing paperwork. Um in my World. You can be a credit Analyst. You can be a loan administration person. Those are great places to be but I knew I wanted to do more for the customers and the clients. So It was.
32:21.44
loriejones7
Is it.
32:36.40
Cindy Grove
It was just taking the time that it takes to to learn how to do what I do and push myself into it. Um, but losing my job was ah a big one and its hit every time we hit a recession layoffs were a big part of the 80 s. And they still are we see layoffs going on now and and that was a concern. It was what it finally came back to was imagining what I would do if everything changed and that's where resilience comes from and that's where some of the books that I read which are not straight business books. It's looking at resilience what it takes to do something different. Um, when you can start to imagine doing something different and not being attached to one set of standards that you put yourself under I think you become more resilient that way. Um. If. You're really afraid of something and it's something you shouldn't be doing because it's not your strength. Why are you making yourself do it I went through a period of um I was going to challenge myself to ride roller coasters and I'm like okay I did several of those all over a summer it's like I think I'm done I don't need to do that anymore because I don't care I didn't get that much of a thrill out of it I got over the fear sorta but it's like I'm not going to do that anymore. That's not my thing so give yourself permission to quit.
33:56.55
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, but that is super important I think I I actually I I will read a book I don't like all the way through to the very end because I refuse to quit halfway through even though it doesn't add anything to my life. It doesn't.
34:05.59
Cindy Grove
Um, it is.
34:10.87
Cindy Grove
Um, yeah.
34:16.37
loriejones7
Doesn't do anything for me I still have a hard time quitting I think that's super powerful Cindy the idea that you have your permission to quit something that doesn't fit you.
34:24.36
Cindy Grove
Go do something else change your life change change everything it it sounds I'm making it sound easier than it is but some days you may not have a choice. So if you can imagine something different and it's like always got to have the backup plan. So yeah.
34:41.84
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, I think that's I I do too when I you know when I'm trying to make a ah big decision or try and um, you know we started our company here seven years ago and um, when Sam you know. Approached me about coming on I thought about it and I'm like well what's the worst that can happen you know and if you go through your worst case scenario and you've got some plan bs in place maybe take the risk maybe be just a little bit fearless. There.
35:01.40
Cindy Grove
Right.
35:14.30
Cindy Grove
But the flip side of that is it's always fascinating to watch other people and what they're afraid of and networkers that are afraid of the numbers. Um, and knew a business owner was a woman business owner and was scared to death to talk to bankers. Because they were all men and she's like I think I'm expected to know everything in my tax returns and I'm like is your business. The business of preparing tax returns. No you pay a cpa good money for that. You're not expected to know all that stuff. That's what you pay them for.
35:47.80
loriejones7
And.
35:49.25
Cindy Grove
So Please don't do that and don't worry about that. So. It's really understanding what your role is in the situation. So The same thing for networking. Um networking is something that is an interesting place for me I'm not comfortable in big rooms of people where I don't know everybody. But there are plenty of groups that I'm a part of and build relationships in and go in the room and I see people that I know and it's fun to get to know people I don't know it's learning how to make yourself and where you're comfortable in those situations and why they're important to me and taking. For me, it was taking a different perspective I'm not here to sell myself I'm here to understand what you do because what? I always love having is ah ah a list of names of trusted advisors. My clients are always looking enough who do you know, let me introduce you to this person because I've.
36:40.47
loriejones7
This is.
36:44.92
Cindy Grove
I've gotten to know them I have confidence in them I would love for you to have a chance to talk to them. Maybe they can help so I'm going to gathering Intel for my clients if you will. It's a different perspective on it.
36:49.83
loriejones7
Yeah I like that.
36:56.12
loriejones7
Yeah I like that I like that you faced your fear on the roller coasters too and and then decided you didn't really that was okay that you'd done it and you didn't need to do it again and over and over and over again. So.
37:01.35
Cindy Grove
Okay.
37:08.96
Cindy Grove
That is correct there. It's it's like watching scary I don't watch scary movies I don't need to scare myself like is scary enough I scare myself in different ways.
37:19.67
loriejones7
Um, ah so did you run into any unique challenges because you were a woman.
37:31.49
Cindy Grove
Well, um, probably all too young here. But if any of everybody have seen the movie Charlie Wilson's war. It's fascinating film. It's on on how the the situation in the middle east for this country that is still happening today but very fascinating time when um. The Middle East was an upset and the us got involved but it also talks about the 80 s and this is a congressman in his office and how he runs his office is just appalling. Um, it's young women. And he hires them for their looks not for their ability to type. He's like I can teach him how to type I can't teach him how to be pretty so he uses more crass language than that. But that was the world of 1980. It's exactly where it was. Um, they could hire you for whatever reasons they could ask you about your family planning choices. They could ask you ah about when you were planning on getting pregnant when you were getting married. It was a very different world that bet there was also.
38:21.93
loriejones7
Um, and.
38:37.66
Cindy Grove
Huge difference. Unequal pay for same same work unfair treatment. Um inappropriate behavior bad behavior and the mommy penalty. All those things were real. The 90 S worked very hard and the two thousand s have worked very hard. To bridge a lot of that and a lot of different ideas came about there was job sharing for a while there were different things and I think the world has evolved into something better family leave acts that we have now for us. The biggest thing is understanding what it is to have a family and how to coordinate that and how to coordinate your career. Um, don't convince yourself that you have that you know it was the saying of you can have it all. No, you really can't have it all neither can yours. Significant other who's in it with you. It is it is a village. Um, and it's a partnership and if everybody comes together to make that work which is not what was happening several generations before the generation was very gender specific as to who took care of what. I love watching families now I mean it just everybody jumps in and is responsible for driving the kids to whatever sports event or helping with home duties or helping with the the things you need, um, taking care of finances so it kind of goes all.
40:04.18
Cindy Grove
All Over. It's the partnership that you create if you create that partnership outside of work. Hopefully you have the support you need inside work. Ah, the judgments within the workplace are they still there. Subtly yes, they are they always? we're We're still talking about it. You ask me the question that's because we're still dealing with it or the question wouldn't be a question. Um, but I think I think if you lower the expectations of what being the perfect person in that position is and you have partnership with your partner.
40:24.96
loriejones7
Um, ah and.
40:40.75
Cindy Grove
The employers are trying as hard as they can to work with you especially in times of low unemployment. We're experiencing that here in Colorado they're trying to make accommodations but keep in mind as this the society gives more support to the family. Family needs to come back and support society support the employer support the job because they're the ones that created the job for you in the first place and if they go away now. What do you do? So. It's not taking advantage of it which was done certainly when moms.
41:08.89
loriejones7
Okay.
41:16.60
Cindy Grove
When I was a mom I watched it happen so it's it goes back to the winwin. Um, but yes, faced faced much of it. It was difficult made it work. Um feared my kids were ruined forever I kept telling them what they could say on Oprah because sure they were going to be there.
41:36.47
Cindy Grove
Um, but it's also rearlining and lowering your standard the house didn't have to be perfect and clean all the time those kinds of things but how many how many young people still talk about their moms gathering up everything in their room and putting it a garbage bag and putting it away and they had to earn it back.
41:40.91
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:54.28
Cindy Grove
That conversation lately has been come up several times over cleaning that think it comes with cleaning desks but whatever I just laugh that it's a thing but.
42:05.70
loriejones7
Um, somebody So you you were getting messaging when you first started out like um, you know don't Bother. You know you just. Get married. Don't work. Why did you decide to not listen to that and like go to work. That's.
42:23.47
Cindy Grove
Well um I was raised by a single mom who taught me don't rely on anyone else you rely on yourself so self-reliance was a big part of what I was brought up with um.
42:32.52
loriejones7
Um, a.
42:39.55
Cindy Grove
And and divorce was prevalent latchkey kids was prevalent and so becoming self-reliant but the other side of that was personally within my own home situation I knew when I wanted kids. Um I married a wonderful man who was in the law enforcement world. And that meant ah a requirement completely different than the normal mom and dad come home at five o'clock or six o'clock at night go to work at Eight o'clock in the morning and everybody goes to school. There was nothing traditional about the household. So there are a lot of single parents out there. A lot of. Blended families. A lot of different schedule situations I went into having children kind of fearless that I can raise I can do this by myself and you know this is funny what you would tell your 20 something self and what I would tell other 20 somethings um be prepared. Be prepared to do this on your own if you want children enough be prepared to do it on your own Hopefully you never ever have to but um, that's a whole nother podcast and another hour. Ah not always by choice. Do you find yourself doing it on your own.
43:50.50
loriejones7
Um, and.
43:54.18
Cindy Grove
And that's where getting that education now but also continuing it allows your career to advance and the world is a better place that it's more supportive but the better you are at what you do the more in demand you are the more they're willing to make concessions.
44:11.11
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, that's important I Think that's a really that's powerful to think that. Yeah it may not be our own choice but there are a lot of people out there doing it by themselves.
44:11.42
Cindy Grove
So be your best self.
44:25.12
Cindy Grove
Well in a lot of you'll you'll hear talk and I still hear employers. We made the choice that we wouldn't live in the big house. So so so and so could stay home. It's like I wasn't even wasn't even in that works for us. Um public servants. Don't make a lot of money. So.
44:34.46
loriejones7
Then.
44:42.40
Cindy Grove
The financial consider if I waited financially and you've hear this all the time if I'd waited financially I never would have had kids. But interestingly enough the generation of my adult children many have made that decision financially. It's we can't pull it off.
44:47.87
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah.
44:57.65
loriejones7
Here.
44:59.36
Cindy Grove
With the student debt. So there are many many different reasons and and that I feel terrible. You know I feel terrible for them. But it's making that personal choice. It's just being prepared to to do it through see it through and do it on your own and it can be done. It can be done.
45:14.50
loriejones7
Is it.
45:17.25
Cindy Grove
And they do survive.
45:20.96
loriejones7
Cindy when you when you look at your life. What are you? the most proud of.
45:25.21
Cindy Grove
My kids My kids I mean I'm I'm proud of I'm proud of the person I've become you know I decided not to scare myself with roller coasters but I decided at the age of 50 My daughter and I are very involved in the equine world and I started jumping horses at a late place in life I had Ridden only a little during my youth I always wanted to I was able to follow my dream at a very late place in life and I'm following that dream but I have that opportunity with. Something I do with my adult daughter. Um, but both my kids I'm I'm very proud of that. But I'm also really I am very proud of the clients that I work with they are family Also their friends. They're their businesses that I help. Um. Helped some of them through some crisises and had some very tough times in making sure they made it through. Um so I'm proud that I'm able to work in an industry with banks that do that? Not all Banks. Do.
46:33.23
loriejones7
I Think that's neat I think that sometimes um, people don't realize what a close relationship you build with clients you know I have I have clients we've visited in the hospital I have ones that I call and make sure that their tests came back. Okay, after a cancer scare or something like that.
46:39.60
Cindy Grove
Person. Um, yeah, lovely.
46:51.10
loriejones7
And and they they do emotionally and they feel a ah lot like family and I think that I think that's important to realize we're proud of them. We're proud when they have success. We're excited.
47:01.26
Cindy Grove
Yeah, that is what? well it's community and business is a community if you're in business it depends and and you know your community of which the world you're in you know that's kind of what you look to.
47:13.93
loriejones7
So any advice for a young woman who's just starting down your path. She wants to go into banking. She wants to go into commercial lending What? what would you tell someone? who's just starting on that.
47:26.63
Cindy Grove
Um, to go to the the finance degree is huge, no accounting. Um, you can even have your bachelor's in in whatever you have it in but go to a ah Junior college and take accounting accounting's Fascinating. Um. If. That's your thing um sales there are different ways to go into banking but it is harder to promote into the loan side from the customer service side. It can be done but that's a longer trajectory if this was someone young right now who was looking at.
47:53.19
loriejones7
Is it.
48:01.37
Cindy Grove
Being an intern in a bank and and we have 1 right now. Um, start learning how to read the financials and and is it their thing that they want to do no. But if you're good at understanding what you're reading what you're looking at what they learn by reading just the financials of that business. Start to understand. Well what does this business do and I'll take it down a real quick tangent looking at a balance sheet when you're trying to figure out how they make their money what we talk about in banking follow the dollar The only thing that repays a loan is cash. Nothing else repays a loan. So when people talk about I have plenty of collateral I have real estate I have equipment none of that pays it back until you convert it to cash. That's why they're second and third sources of repayment. But if you're looking at the cash flow of that business. Understand what you're going to see and it gets very technical from there. But what? what? I watch this these young people that are becoming credit analysts what they're learning is how does laurie the financial planner make her money versus.
49:14.45
loriejones7
A.
49:18.33
Cindy Grove
Susie who is a manufacturer and she is manufacturing t-shirts. How does she make her money. There is investment in fabric and equipment and where for you, it's an investment in knowledge and database and. You know lot of technology in your world in their world. Not as much. Um, so I'm constantly giving out those analogies but for a young person doing that when they get into those positions. Anytime you can intern and or take a position where you're learning the inner workings of that area. That's a big one because that's a great way to find is this really what I want to do? Um, so I think it's take advantage this goes back to finding the mentor finding the people in the organization and what they do understanding.
49:59.25
loriejones7
Um.
50:09.96
Cindy Grove
Who is that person sitting over there and what are they doing and why do they like their their job is that something I want to do if you have a strong sense of I I know I Want to be an attorney and the type of Attorney I Want to be as an environmental um in environmental crimes or legislation. That's where I want to. Do climate change then what you're doing is you're going back to School. You're getting that law degree and taking those courses but you're looking for the right firms to intern with um if you are looking at going. But if you're looking to going into banking you're looking for the Opportunities. Of banks that have educational opportunities within the banks themselves you can ask about that in an interview. A lot of them will tell you about getting your college degree and they've got tuition reimbursement but do they go a step beyond that and certainly I have worked with people that started as simple as. Tuition reimbursement and went back got their masters and they've then went through the credit Analyst route learned how to read and put it all together and now they're out doing what I'm doing helping business owners I just had to do it a couple decades longer because I had to learn the hard way. But.
51:22.21
loriejones7
Ah, yeah I love myself a good financial sheet. So I I agree with that I think that? um although I do take issue with the fact you said it may not be fun. Finance is fun looking at the financial planning sheets.
51:29.73
Cindy Grove
Um, prevent.
51:36.23
Cindy Grove
For those of us who like it. There are others that are like me but make sure you're not in a job that requires that of your up that you have to have that skill and that knowledge because if you don't have a passion for it.
51:37.65
loriejones7
Super fun. But I do get. But yeah I do get that there are people that don't exactly.
51:55.40
Cindy Grove
And I did not walk into this job with that knowledge or skill and I didn't know I had a passion for it until somebody taught me how to build a spreadsheet I got all excited so but but anyway.
52:00.00
loriejones7
No.
52:07.80
loriejones7
Ah, yeah, that's another thing that's super fun and exciting. Yeah, but Sydney Thank you so much for your time today I really appreciate you telling us a little bit about your journey and the things that you've done if. We have listeners that want to get in touch with you or learn more How do they do that.
52:24.23
Cindy Grove
Um, they can find me on Linkedin. Ah, certainly there. They can always reach out to Mountain View Bank of commerce and find me there. Um, so I don't know if this is they're welcome to email me all of that should be either. Through the bank or on Linkedin but I am more than happy to talk to them, especially if they're looking at digging in deeper to what a career in this field looks like I'm I'm happy to talk about that.
52:50.76
loriejones7
Yeah, thank you? Well thanks Cindy I appreciate your time.
52:56.60
Cindy Grove
Lori. Thank you appreciate it have a good one.
52:58.77
loriejones7
All right? So I'm going to go ahead and push stop.