Today, host Lorie Jones welcomes the phenomenal Dr. Natalie Curcio, CEO and founder of Curcio Dermatology. Dr. Natalie will share her gripping story of switching gears mid-career to get an MBA, facing entrepreneurial hurdles head-on, and building a thriving medical practice.
Tune in as we discuss her secret to balancing business with medicine, the role of mentorship, and the unstoppable power of self-belief. Whether it’s her multilingual proficiency or her passion for patient-centered care, Dr. Natalie’s journey is a testament to the power of resilience.
Don’t miss this empowering episode packed with insights that will inspire and equip you to chase your dreams fearlessly!
Show Highlights:
- Discover a must-read book on the truth about healthcare. [00:02:57]
- Follow the brilliant Dr. Natalie Curcio’s inspiring journey. [00:05:24]
- The true power of championing childhood passions. [00:08:50]
- Why pursuing education, training and certification matters. [00:14:24]
- Advice to successfully follow goals in the face of doubters. [00:15:27]
- How to tell your story backwards while living forward. [00:21:01]
- Reasons to get an MBA as a woman at any age. [00:22:51]
- Tips to overcome challenges of entrepreneurship. [00:25:46]
- Is the “overqualified woman” bias the new glass ceiling? [00:31:39]
- Five success keys Dr. Natalie Curcio prescribes to early-career women. [00:41:51]
Contact Dr. Natalie Curcio at https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-m-curcio/. Visit her website at https://www.curciodermatology.com/.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to http://fearless-females.com/
00:02.10
loriejones7
Good morning. So we're here with Natalie Curcio. She is the CEO and founder of Curcio Dermatology. And I'm so excited to get to hear about your journey today. um Thank you so much for doing this and being on our podcast.
00:18.35
natalie_curcio
Well, thank you so much for having me.
00:21.31
loriejones7
Well, let's jump in, Natalie. My very first question is always the same. And my my stack of books keeps getting higher that I want to read. But what is your favorite book?
00:33.00
natalie_curcio
Well, I have to say my favorite book is The Price We Pay by Dr. Marty McCarry.
00:40.10
loriejones7
Okay, what's ah what's it about? Tell me in a little bit.
00:44.21
natalie_curcio
So the price we pay um paints a vivid picture of the business of medicine, the real issues driving up the price of health care, and how we can all take action to fix what's broken. Dr. McCary shows how much of health care spending has nothing actually to do with health and what we all can do about it. And what's great is the book is a must read for everyone, in my opinion. um You know, at the end, we're all consumers of health care. And um we all can fall victim to some of health care's problems.
01:20.62
natalie_curcio
And he's a great thought leader and storyteller so he makes these issues really attainable to the reader. And um he's actually a colleague and a friend of mine, and getting to meet him after reading the book has really been, you know, life changing for me. And when you meet him as a human being you see that in the book, um When he challenges the medical establishment to remember medical's noble heritage, which is a call to care for people at their most vulnerable point, you see that as a human being and as a doctor, he does this in his own practice, and that's really refreshing.
01:48.88
loriejones7
hu
01:55.10
loriejones7
Oh, I love that. That's a really great idea too, Natalie. The idea that Um, like, you know, if I were to recommend a book on finance, I'm sure everyone in the whole world would go, Oh, so that's kind of like, you know, recommending a book on healthcare. You're like, Oh, is this going to be way above? Am I not going to understand? Is it going to be hard? It just seems really personable and like applicable to everybody.
02:20.46
natalie_curcio
Yeah, I mean, the year I read it in the fall of 21 and I literally bought it for everybody knew I knew that year for Christmas. I mean, whether they were just friends, whether it was family members, whether it was some of my own physicians. And I think everybody had the same reaction to me was not only was it extremely illuminating, but some of the things going on were quite shocking. And someone that's been, I feel like is in a medical family, grew up in the healthcare care system, pursued lifelong dream of becoming a doctor right now and working the system.
02:41.63
loriejones7
Bye.
02:49.33
natalie_curcio
I thought I knew a lot about what was going on and I knew a lot, but I didn't know everything. And so that was the really great part about reading this book.
02:57.55
loriejones7
Well, I love it. You've, you've convinced me. I'll add it to my pie. So Natalie, tell me just a little bit about your journey. Can you tell me about how you got where you're at today? What you do? That's just kind of a abbreviated version of of who you are.
03:15.59
natalie_curcio
Well, so, um, I, I grew up in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Um, my dad was an OB joint and my mom was a nurse. So I think when you're exposed to medicine early, it can kind of peak an interest for you. Um, my father was my inspiration for everything that I wanted to be as a physician. Um, and I really, you know, for some people medicine is a job, but for me, it was a true calling. And I believe I inherited that from him.
03:39.91
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
03:40.16
natalie_curcio
Unfortunately, he was killed in a car wreck on August 4th, 1991. I was 13 and he was 38. And um my whole family was in that car wreck and my mom, my brother and I walked out of it and really nobody should have lived. So that really instilled in me that I had a purpose here on earth that I had to fulfill. And so I made a conscious decision not just to survive, but to follow my passions and dreams that were inspired by my father. And so prevailing through adversity, through self-reliance and perseverance was a way that I could honor my father's legacy, but also to really start the foundation for my dreams.
04:19.80
natalie_curcio
And so soon after that, um I actually decided to start studying Spanish.
04:20.11
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
04:26.35
natalie_curcio
And that opportunity led me to be able to start spending summers in Madrid. and developing near native fluency in Castellano. And so I realized um I was better able to connect with all different types of people, think in different ways, and become more of a global citizen. And this really ignited a second passion for me in life, which was the study of languages. and um Later on, I'll talk about I went to Vanderbilt, but it was there that I studied five romance languages and realized I had another special gift besides the sciences and medicine.
05:02.01
natalie_curcio
And um being multilingual has opened many doors for me in life that I wouldn't have had, both through medicine and otherwise, um and allowed me to practice medicine on a global stage.
05:02.72
loriejones7
Yeah.
05:14.53
natalie_curcio
So after that experience, I decided to go to Vanderbilt University, which is how I ended up in Nashville in 1996. And, you know, it has been a thriving city that I've called home now for over 25 years. I ended up really loving Vanderbilt. I'm a quadruple door and I got my bachelor's, my doctor of medicine, my MPH and my healthcare MBA all at Vanderbilt. And I continue to support Vanderbilt by serving as an assistant adjunct professor in health policy in the medical school and by serving as a mentor to many students who are looking to pursue medicine in many different facets.
05:38.08
loriejones7
Wow.
05:51.93
natalie_curcio
And so after completing all of my medical training, um I opened up my dermatology practice, Curcio Dermatology, here in the heart of Music City. And um my vision was for a boutique style private practice. in a retail space that's beautiful, calming, and engaging, but that's focused on doctor-driven, patient-centered, and scientifically approached to care.
06:08.92
loriejones7
Mmhmm.
06:17.41
natalie_curcio
So um that's what I've done, and we've been open now for over 11 years.
06:23.87
loriejones7
Wow, that is just an amazing story. I don't even know where to start. I have so many questions.
06:28.70
natalie_curcio
yeah
06:29.16
loriejones7
But tell me just a little bit, Natalie, about like you said that your dad sort of inspired you and it feels like from listening to you, like the accident kind of made you want to live live more, live bigger um to kind of make up for maybe some of what he couldn't do. Is that?
06:52.53
natalie_curcio
Yeah, and no, I agree. I always was very, I mean, you know, my dad said he wanted to become a doctor at seven. um I decided I wanted to be a doctor at three and a dermatologist at five. You know, the guy who interviewed me for medical said I was, school said in 20 years I was the only person who ever did the specialty they said at their interview. So I'm a pretty determined person. I mean, I'm not inflexible, but when I decided on something and set my mind, I follow through with it. And so, yeah, I would say it set me from a very driven to an extremely focused person, and I wasn't going to let anyone or anything get in my way from achieving my goals.
07:19.30
loriejones7
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
07:30.94
loriejones7
Nah. Um, why dermatology at age five? I do not know. I'm, I'm like the, I don't know anyone that decides what they're going to be at age five. I love it.
07:41.05
natalie_curcio
that's it That's a great question. um So a couple of things. Well, first of all, my godparents were medical school classmates, my dad, and my godmother is a dermatologist in Naples, Florida, and her late husband was an endocrinologist. So I had a very early exposure to dermatology when I was younger. um I spent time, of course, catching babies with my dad, but I also spent time working with her in a clinic, so I had an early exposure to it. And then everybody in my family had severe acne that I don't accutate many, many times.
08:11.87
natalie_curcio
And so I think when you have an early exposure to something, you either hate it and want nothing to do with it, or you think, wow, that doctor changed my life, and I'd like to do that for somebody else, which was my experience.
08:15.87
loriejones7
Uh huh.
08:24.95
natalie_curcio
um Dermatology is unique in that you can treat medical problems, skin cancer, surgery, and cosmetic and aesthetic.
08:25.93
loriejones7
Uh huh.
08:33.32
natalie_curcio
And so my dad was a surgeon being an OB-GYN. I always say, I think you either have surgeon's hands or you don't. So I was always dissecting fetal pigs and frogs and things like that. And I always knew I wanted to do surgery. So I did a fellowship in Mohs Micrographic Surgery. And so I treat high-risk skin cancer patients. um on the medical side, and then I did another fellowship in cosmetic and laser surgery.
08:51.99
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
08:54.71
natalie_curcio
So I do injection of toxins, ah fillers, and I do a lot of laser work. So I'm a proceduralist at heart.
09:01.83
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
09:02.52
natalie_curcio
I'm not your rash lady. um And so dermatology was the perfect specialty where I could combine the care of cancer patients, treat them with surgical technique, and then treat aesthetic patients where you like to have an artistic eye and help people feel better about the way they look.
09:19.61
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
09:21.35
natalie_curcio
um all in one specialty.
09:22.41
loriejones7
Yeah.
09:25.01
loriejones7
That's huge. That's so amazing. And then you said also that you know a whole bunch of languages and I'm so impressed because quite frankly, I love traveling so much and I can't speak English partly, you know, like I am, I can speak English, but I took six years of French and I can say, you know, au revoir or something like that.
09:43.34
natalie_curcio
Right.
09:43.46
loriejones7
So, so talk to me about how your language is like, how did that um work into your career?
09:50.61
natalie_curcio
You know, and it was funny, you know, so Spanish, I spent a lot of time in in Madrid. And so that's how I became bilingual. And then I went to Vanderbilt with the intent of being a Spanish literature major and studying abroad in Madrid. And that's part of the reason why I chose Vanderbilt because they had such a strong romance language program and was very good for pre-medical studies. And so um they offered Portuguese with a Spanish major. And so I started taking Portuguese and I thought I was good at Portuguese because I was good in Spanish. And then at the end of my fall abroad, I went and spent a month with a family friend in Normandy, France, and they had said that their father spoke Spanish, so I'd i'd be okay, because I had never taken French, and I got there, and there was zero English, and it was sink or swoon.
10:37.84
natalie_curcio
And I'm a kind of person, I like to learn a language, then apply it. Well, there was no learning and applying it was go for it. And so I just started repeating and saying, you know, like, I'm cold gif wa or I'm so hot, you know, j show and just learning it.
10:45.91
loriejones7
Yeah.
10:52.58
natalie_curcio
And so I came back to Vanderbilt and they had a program where you could take a year of intense language within a semester. So I went to the first French class and the TA threw me out because she said I was a native speaker. And I went to the Dean and I was like, I don't know how to speak French. It's going to all come out in Spanish. So she had me take a dictation and she's like, you're right. You don't know French, but boy, you speak it very well. And so I started taking French and then my family's background is from Italy. So I added Italian and I thought, what the heck, I might as well add on Catalan.
11:23.41
natalie_curcio
you know, which is they speak um in the area around Barcelona and i'm Northeastern Spain. And so by the end of the time of my senior year, I was taking five Romance languages a day. And um I realized I wasn't just good in Spanish, but I had a gift for languages.
11:40.01
loriejones7
Yeah, that's super impressive. I would get confused though. Whenever I go to a Spanish country, I had so much French that I will think in French and try, I don't talk in Spanish, but you know, I'm gracias all the time. and And then English too. It would just, that would confuse me. Five at once. I am in awe.
11:59.16
natalie_curcio
Yeah. So it was, I was very lucky. And when I took some French classes, five years later, I definitely slowed down. But the, the one language expert said, I probably still had the ability of a five to seven year old in my early twenties, which is why I was able to do that. So like, imagine if you learned earlier in life, you could probably speak 15 languages, but who knew?
12:14.03
loriejones7
So impressive.
12:19.40
loriejones7
Oh, well, I'm gonna invite you whenever I go out of the country.
12:23.53
natalie_curcio
Yep.
12:23.76
loriejones7
I'm just gonna be like, Natalie, come on, let's go somewhere.
12:25.52
natalie_curcio
Happy to start as a translator.
12:29.02
loriejones7
Yeah, you just you learn in the language, it'll be good.
12:32.56
natalie_curcio
Yeah.
12:32.66
loriejones7
So Natalie, what is if you could look back on your journey and tell me what is the best investment that you made in yourself? Is there something that you can look back on and say, Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad I did that.
12:44.61
natalie_curcio
um I would say the best investment I made in myself is my education and training for sure. you know um all of the degrees I have, all of the fellowships, um my love of continued learning, the time I spent learning languages and living abroad and striving to continually learn and improve upon myself, that that commitment to lifelong learning. um And I told people, you can get like titles like chairman or whatever that can be taken away, but nothing can ever take away your education, your training, your sort of getting and certifications and your degrees.
13:23.39
loriejones7
I love that. I love the idea of learning. it's It's so fascinating too. We have a whole team here at Fidelis that is learning as one of their top talents. And I must hire for that because that's the way I feel too. It's like you just, I want to know all the things.
13:42.21
natalie_curcio
Yeah.
13:44.27
loriejones7
So what is, um if you can look back on what is the worst advice you've ever gotten? And did you take the advice or did you ignore it? top Tell me a little bit about that.
13:58.92
natalie_curcio
So I think throughout life, you'll meet people that I call doubters, um people who for some reason or some intrinsic bias either don't like you or don't believe in you or just cannot see all that you have to offer. And um I've encountered those people throughout my entire career. And I think you need to ignore them and disregard their negativity and trust in yourself and your abilities and what you know in your heart to be true. um I can think of two examples where it was significant. um I had a guidance high school guidance counselor who was absolutely awful. um He constantly belittled me. He told me that I was not intelligent. i' Like, have you looked at my IQ score? um He would told me I would never get into a good college.
14:46.78
natalie_curcio
And then I would never ever be able to become a doctor and I just kept looking in the sky and I'm like Do you see the same person sitting in front of you that I see because this is just crazy ridiculous advice So um I do feel that he was very old and maybe sexism played a role But he just couldn't see any of the wonderful qualities that I had to offer so
14:49.20
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
15:10.01
natalie_curcio
you know Some people may have gotten discouraged and just said, well, fine, I'm no good. I'm not going to do this. But I was determined to prove him wrong. And um you know at the end of senior year, so I applied to all the schools I wanted to apply. And I got into many top 20 schools. And I brought all those college acceptances from top institutions in to show him. And you know what? I was ah i was you know i was waiting for him to say, oh, look, I was wrong. And he had no iraq reaction.
15:34.34
loriejones7
Mmhmm.
15:36.04
natalie_curcio
He was like, so what?
15:37.23
loriejones7
Yeah.
15:37.59
natalie_curcio
And he was just an odd man and that I didn't let him impede me from obtaining my goals and dreams and I continued straight to the top. And so, but I can't imagine a person had let that person stop them. It could have been devastating and changed the outcome of their entire life. And then the other time.
15:54.71
loriejones7
Yeah, someone with less self-confidence or less sure.
15:57.68
natalie_curcio
Yes. And the the other time I was in college and I was very excited to major in Spanish. I was trying to, you know, you really had to plan out in the olden days, studying abroad because the MCAT was once a year, it wasn't online and things like that. And um the pre-med advisor told me, he's like, there's no way you can be a language major and get into medical school. And um now keep in mind in the late 90s and early 2000s, most medical schools wanted in biology or chemistry majors. It wasn't like now where everybody wants music and humanities majors, you know, that life has changed um and evolved.
16:26.68
loriejones7
Uh-huh.
16:32.14
natalie_curcio
I was definitely a woman before my time, but um I told him that I was going to major in Spanish literature and I was going to study abroad and I would get into medical school. And he said, well, you better have a 4.0 in that language major and almost a 4.0 on your GPA. And he said, good luck, but he's like, you're not meeting with me anymore. And I thought, well, okay, I just got to figure out how to do this another way. So I accomplished all of those things. You know, I had a 4.0 in my major. I was up for the founder's medalist. That was one of the top, you know, eight graduates in the whole university. And, um, I got into many medical schools and ended up matriculating at Vanderbilt medical school. And voila. So, you know, know where your talents are.
17:14.52
natalie_curcio
know what your dreams are, but you have to work hard and you have to know what it takes to get there. um And so I did just that, but you know, I would have definitely regretted it if I just majored in biology like everybody else and gave it my language dreams, my study abroad dreams, because that was also an intimate part of who I was and who I am.
17:34.80
loriejones7
I would have forget it too, Natalie, because you're going to be my expert in languages when we travel the world. so I think
17:40.85
natalie_curcio
Right? And learning all those languages changed my life. I mean, so, yeah.
17:47.37
loriejones7
that you said something really interesting. You said you you have those people throughout your journey or throughout your career, throughout your life. that that just don't believe in you the way you believe in yourself. And and you gave a really couple of kind of extreme examples. It's obvious that they didn't believe in you, but how do you find those more subtle examples? Do you think of people that like, how can you tell the people that don't believe in you from the people who do?
18:19.74
natalie_curcio
I think I've been very lucky that I've at times found wonderful mentors who have really changed my life. You know, and so I think when you meet people or you start to work with industry, you can tell the people who really want to promote you or use you strongly to promote their company. And then people are like, I mean, you're fine. You're a diamond dozen. We'll take you for this. We'll take five of their physicians for this. And they don't really see you as somebody special. you know And that's more of the subtle stuff.
18:50.44
loriejones7
her
18:52.12
natalie_curcio
um and um And you need to stick with the people that really see you as something truly special because it's a waste of your time and energy and that's what you end up. Realizing it's not that they don't necessarily don't like you, but they just see you as like, Oh, you can't fill in doctor. So-and-so can. And they don't even think twice where somebody else, if you're supposed to launch a live webinar and you have the flu, they'll, they're not going to say, we're going to ask somebody else to say, we're going to move it back two weeks until you feel better.
19:10.48
loriejones7
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
19:19.85
natalie_curcio
Cause we really want you to do it.
19:24.06
loriejones7
Yeah, that's so you're looking for someone who, who doesn't take a substitute. They don't think there is a substitute for you.
19:31.31
natalie_curcio
Right.
19:31.53
loriejones7
You are. Yeah, that's interesting.
19:34.50
natalie_curcio
their go- to person
19:34.61
loriejones7
That's a really good way of looking at things.
19:35.61
natalie_curcio
yeah
19:38.73
loriejones7
What about if you look back, is there something that you, and i I hate the word regret, I use it, but um is there something that you would have done differently? That you would have said, oh gosh, if knowing what I know now, if I could go back and redo that thing, I totally would do it.
19:55.88
natalie_curcio
their So I think there are moments in life where there are things about which you may have doubt or concern, but the beauty of life is that you get to tell your story backward, but you get to live your life forward. And if you're committed to yourself and believe in yourself, things always have a way of working themselves out and usually learn something in the process. And when you're presented with a tough situation, I think you need to ask the right questions and stay fully informed so you can make an accurate in the moment decision. And I think if you do that, you're not going to be faced with like a lot of regret.
20:37.21
loriejones7
Mm-hmm. So like if you if you learn, maybe that's kind of my mantra is, what did I learn from this? And we will go through a lot of times and say, OK, we had this situation. It didn't go very well for us you know as a team here. what can we What did we do well? What could we have done differently? um And then the next time around, you handle it differently. What is it what is that quote that says, ah fail?
21:03.41
natalie_curcio
Yeah.
21:06.67
loriejones7
try again, fail better sometimes.
21:08.92
natalie_curcio
Yeah, right.
21:14.14
loriejones7
but um but that so But I still do have situations where I'd look back and I'd be like, if I know if i had known the growth that I would have, I would have gone back and and done that differently. You can't ever do it. You can't ever go back and do it differently because time moves in one direction. But there are things that I think that, gosh, and I think it helps too, because that way I feel like in the future, maybe else maybe I'll think, oh, I would have done that differently. I'm going to do this one differently.
21:55.05
loriejones7
What about if you could go back Natalie and talk to your 20 year old self, what would you tell her?
22:04.60
natalie_curcio
So this is a really easy question for me. It would be get an MBA. The funny thing is I did this in my early 40s during the pandemic, but I think the issue is the 20-year-old me wouldn't listen to the whatever it was 41 or 42-year-old me because she would not have understood yet the importance of it. I think only after working in several practices during my fellowships, only after starting and running my own practice, um in addition to working with industry, did I really see the true value of getting um a healthcare MBA because of my maturity and my experience in life, which is why a lot of time business schools won't take people straight out of college or
22:28.87
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
22:48.53
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
22:51.99
natalie_curcio
you know, very young in in their work experience because they don't have yet the work and life experience to really put it to practice. And so, you know, when I took courses like operations, I was like, oh, I do this every day. or And people were like, I don't understand understock overstock. I'm like, I do this every day. Or I don't understand overbooking, underbooking. I'm like, every day. And people just like were baffled by these concepts.
23:16.07
loriejones7
Yeah.
23:16.97
natalie_curcio
But it was so easy. um Or things in finance. you know I was like, oh my gosh, I like love finance. but you know But before you take it, you're almost afraid of it because you're a doctor who never took an econ class.
23:30.36
loriejones7
Yeah.
23:31.30
natalie_curcio
But so are leading teams and organizations, like strategy.
23:32.87
loriejones7
yeah
23:35.02
natalie_curcio
I mean, it's so important. And, but I just don't know if, when I was 22, I would have felt that way. I'd have been like, oh, I'm just taking it course, get an A, do your best, be at the top of the class, blah, blah, blah.
23:46.40
loriejones7
hi
23:46.70
natalie_curcio
You know, I wouldn't have really felt the oomph that I felt when I was taking it and just like giving it, I mean, I would have given it 110%, but not for the right reasons. Just cause that's not weird.
23:56.44
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, I think that's really valuable too.
23:59.24
natalie_curcio
Yeah. yeah
24:01.88
loriejones7
Yeah, that um i I was actually, I went back, I got my humanities, so maybe I was ahead of my time too, got humanities, went into finance, and then went back to get my MBA. um And I feel like that richness of experience that you're talking about, being able to share day-to-day experiences, and and because the book tells you one thing, and it's sometimes more valuable to hear what you're you know your fellow classmates are doing when they're dealing with it in the trenches, so to speak.
24:35.72
loriejones7
so yeah I think that's really valuable, but I do like the MBA.
24:35.76
natalie_curcio
yeah
24:42.09
loriejones7
I think it's great that you love finance. I think that's amazing.
24:44.50
natalie_curcio
Yes.
24:46.24
loriejones7
It's not scary. It's fun.
24:48.64
natalie_curcio
I'm counting, not as much as many answers.
24:49.57
loriejones7
what about what
24:55.04
natalie_curcio
and
24:55.05
loriejones7
yeah yeah ah i'll I'll admit, those accounting classes were not my favorite. and
24:59.72
natalie_curcio
Yeah.
25:00.74
loriejones7
um What scared you the most when you started your career? Is there something you can think of that you were like, Oh my gosh, that's so scary. And, and did you, does it still scare you? Did you learn, you know, how to, how to face it? Tell me about that a little bit.
25:18.00
natalie_curcio
So I think at the beginning of anyone's career, most intelligent people have this fear of not being successful. And for me, I was not doubtful of my talents as a physician, but I was starting nervous about starting my own private practice because it was new to me. And I always say, for my business, my name is on the door. So if it went down and burning flames, they would be like, Oh, Curcio failed. I don't just have like Nashville dermatology, you know, on the door. And so, you know, I had worked in other practices previously, but it's different.
25:49.20
natalie_curcio
I tell people who've never owned a business when you punch in and punch out versus when you have the final and full responsibility of running the business from the top to the bottom and responsible for the livelihood of an entire team of people who rely upon you, not only for support,
26:00.76
loriejones7
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
26:05.81
natalie_curcio
before a paycheck every single week. And if that business goes down and they don't have money for an apartment or food, that falls on you. And so, you know, I tell people, everyone always asks me like, oh, how hard was it to start a business?
26:16.50
loriejones7
Mm
26:18.85
natalie_curcio
And I tell people, being an entrepreneur is hard. And I tell people, I knew it would be hard.
26:20.74
loriejones7
-hmm.
26:22.37
natalie_curcio
Some people are totally disillusioned, but I tell people it's 10 times harder than what you think it's going to be to start a business from scratch, not just by someone else's. And every year brings different challenges. And I said, heck, we survived a global pandemic. Who was ready for that? Nobody, no matter what industry you're in.
26:38.11
loriejones7
Yeah.
26:38.98
natalie_curcio
um But in health care, even so, it was like, do we open the doors? Do we treat cancer patients? You know, we never shut down. We always had cancer surgeries available for people. um Obviously, you know, the cosmetics and stuff shut down.
26:48.86
loriejones7
Hmm.
26:50.96
natalie_curcio
um But you know, the tough part about running a small business is being able to meet unique challenges on a daily basis and connect with individuals that may not be anything like you.
26:55.86
loriejones7
Hmm.
27:01.84
natalie_curcio
And in what I do, that could be An employee can be many, many different patients who come for and what I do, very different things from a huge tumor to someone who wants a little Botox who's 22, to someone who's elderly you know and has drivers and things. So and those those are the challenges and I don't find them you know scary. um They're just different. And you have to put your best foot forward.
27:27.08
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
27:27.59
natalie_curcio
And I always say, you know, when you walk in that door as a doctor, people are scared and you have to have a smile on your face and you have to put whatever's bothering you or issues you have at home and make that person feel comfortable because they're putting their lives in your hand, especially when talking about cancer surgery. And, and I believe that's your job. That's my job.
27:48.59
loriejones7
Yeah. Yeah. So i think that I think that's right. And I think that, um did you come up with anything that you learned along this path that you were like, you you talk about the weighty responsibility of a business. And and I feel that we are we're dealing with people's entire life savings. That's a huge responsibility. We're dealing with teams that we're in charge of. Did you find anything
28:17.04
natalie_curcio
yeah
28:18.54
loriejones7
that you felt like, uh, gosh, I wish I had known that earlier, you know, because it is, it is day to day. You're learning new things. You're trying new things. You're seeing if something worked well, but is there anything about that process of owning a business and becoming an entrepreneur that you're like, Oh, I wish I'd known that at the beginning.
28:36.66
natalie_curcio
Yeah.
28:40.26
natalie_curcio
I think what's hard for me is I'm such a hardworking, driven person. not everybody views work the same way. And that was at first a huge frustration for me when people just wouldn't show up or they would just say, my tooth hurts. I'm leaving at two o'clock. And not that, not on the doctor side, but on the other, like the front desk or the nursing side, we had to go or less driven.
29:04.03
loriejones7
employee in the and the VISTA.
29:07.20
natalie_curcio
And I'm like, I work with chronic migraine. I've worked with stomach flu. I've worked with respiratory infection, wearing a mask. I mean, I'm there for patients. Like I've got to be dead to not show up at work, you know, but other people don't see it that way. And I know that now, and it's still frustrating to me when people leave, but I know that it happens. And at first when people just wouldn't show up or just but like I'm done and just walked to the door and quit and never gave the two week notice, I was like, This crap really happens. And now I'm like, it's my job to find somebody else.
29:39.52
natalie_curcio
You don't work for a corporation that's going to have somebody in the next day.
29:44.06
loriejones7
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
29:44.38
natalie_curcio
And so I think the HR piece is for me the most difficult.
29:45.94
loriejones7
That's true.
29:51.44
natalie_curcio
And there's less and less qualified people in the workforce.
29:51.78
loriejones7
Yeah, I would agree with that too.
29:54.68
natalie_curcio
I mean, everybody's got shortages, whether you talk to people in restaurants, people working in hospitals. It's very hard to find good people. If a sort of good person or a good person leaves, it really puts you out and and everybody on the team feels it.
30:11.47
loriejones7
Yeah. And it's, it's hard to, to develop that way. I'm a pretty analytical person. I feel like you might realm in that analytical phase two and the softer skills or the people um connection and stuff like that.
30:19.40
natalie_curcio
Yes.
30:26.60
loriejones7
Sometimes it's harder for me. I have to practice at it a little harder.
30:34.51
natalie_curcio
Or when you do invest times in pe a lot of time in people and then they just completely leave anyway and they don't you feel like you had a relationship and they just don't respect it.
30:35.06
loriejones7
What about,
30:43.17
loriejones7
Yeah.
30:45.25
natalie_curcio
That's also very difficult for me because i ah do I'm a very caring, loving person. And so when I do invest in people and they just still walk, it's it's very difficult for me.
30:54.81
loriejones7
yeah Yeah, it's hard. it is It's hard. to i think that That relationship piece is is really hard to navigate. and And I would agree, too, that it's one of the things that you don't really know about owning and ah your own business and being an entrepreneur that um it It took me a while to learn and and practice and get get good at it. So what about any unique challenges because you were a woman?
31:29.61
natalie_curcio
So for me, I think um that unique challenge would be combining business and medicine as a physician. um I think I do a lot of work with industry like key opinion leader, consultant, um speaker, product development, all of those things. And so um at times when I would ask for a bigger role or offer to do things, I got pushed back when I didn't have an MBA. And um so then I was like, you know, the pandemic came. I said, this I've been thinking about it for a few years. This is my perfect opportunity. I have a background in health policy and epidemiology. I predicted a two year shutdown on international trips and meetings, which was spot on. and So I didn't miss anything. So I come back fresh.
32:19.52
natalie_curcio
And um I talked to the same people, and I'm like, well, hey, we're having this great conversation. You're going over all your finance with me. Obviously, you wouldn't talk about your stock numbers if I couldn't understand it, blah, blah, blah. and um And then I had a couple CEOs say to me, well, as a woman, the problem now is that you're overqualified with your MBA. And I just stood there with my mouth hanging open like you would never have said this to a man. And other people has said, well, as a woman, the problem now that you have your MBA and your MPH and you're a doctor and you have all this experience is you're just too smart. But I don't think you can fit this role.
32:58.70
loriejones7
Is there even such a thing?
33:00.95
natalie_curcio
Yeah. And, and I hate those answers and I think they're excuses. And, um, it's just like the glass ceiling at one point was like, just get that MBA and you can break through it. And then it was like, you got this MBA and then it's like that too smart. We want someone who's a little less qualified that we can mold them the way we want. And that was extremely frustrating. And you know, of course, all of these conversations were had with men.
33:29.26
natalie_curcio
who still are inviting me to private dinners, who still are picking my brain for innovative um knowledge, innovative scientific knowledge, who's still having me look at their research protocols, who still are having me do all of this, but then that's their answer.
33:30.64
loriejones7
When you.
33:42.86
natalie_curcio
And if that was really their answer, they wouldn't be having me do all this other things. other things And so, you know, now trying to get a board seat as a female physician after doing the corporate directors international certification, you know, everybody I'm approaching who's got a seat at the table in healthcare, care whether it's a friend or a colleague or, you know, networking, they're all men. And, you know, everyone taps me on the shoulder and says, oh, you're so smart as a doctor.
34:05.32
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
34:11.06
natalie_curcio
We'll figure something out. And I'm just like, is this ever going to matriculate into anything? Because, you know, they're like, but you're not a banker or an accountant. I'm like, I know that.
34:22.68
loriejones7
Mm.
34:22.86
natalie_curcio
I'm not trying to get the physician you'd give to an accountant as the chief of the audit committee. That's not what I'm looking for. You know, I'm looking for a healthcare company that needs a physician for the scientific expertise. So it's just, I think it's a unique challenge with where I'm at.
34:35.95
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
34:39.17
natalie_curcio
And i've like I've seen it with everything on the industry side.
34:44.99
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
34:45.22
natalie_curcio
And you know, there's there's hierarchies in medicine. I mean, everybody who's older and is ahead of all the medical organizations, even though there's more women going in into Durham, more women in residencies, more women coming out on the younger side, the people that are at the top over age 70 are all still men.
35:01.56
loriejones7
So have you found a way to navigate that? I've talked to other other women who are talking about like, you know, you find yourself a mentor that can kind of, you know, help because a lot of times it's not what you know, as you know, it's who you know. Is there, are you finding that that you can find an in in those places? but
35:22.67
natalie_curcio
I mean, a lot of the CEOs that I do work with, that I have good relations with, are men. And a lot of the mentors that I've had, it's just the way it's happened. It's not like I've only sought out men, have been men. So, I mean, I'm not ah i'm not an anti-male person, you know? Some of my best friends are men.
35:39.89
loriejones7
No no no.
35:41.37
natalie_curcio
Yeah, and um God bless our former chairman of dermatology at the end of it just passed away. He was such a champion of mine um and helped kids wanting to encourage me to do my MPH with my residency. Dr. George Strickland, he was wonderful. I mean, you know, I've had men be my greatest champions, you know, um and I appreciate that so much. um And so You know, and i and I said, because I had so many male colleagues and friends all the time, I don't have any hesitation talking to men just as I would women.
36:13.04
loriejones7
Right.
36:13.94
natalie_curcio
So, you know, I'm just gonna do what I've always done.
36:15.61
loriejones7
But the ah you're still finding that, you're still finding that ceiling, that that place you can't get past.
36:17.06
natalie_curcio
It's just, yeah. And I mean, maybe it's age, you know, maybe I'm just, I'm under 50, you know, a lot of people say sometimes you just have to get,
36:26.45
loriejones7
Huh.
36:34.46
natalie_curcio
a little more life experience and age and and it'll be easier.
36:41.22
natalie_curcio
We'll see.
36:41.72
loriejones7
Natalie, you're going to have to start dying your hair gray instead of me dying my hair not gray.
36:45.20
natalie_curcio
i know
36:49.80
loriejones7
That's funny. Well, as as you navigate that situation, and I know you're going to be successful and come out on the top of that, let me know how that worked, what the magic word or phrase or formula me was to to get past that ceiling.
37:06.50
natalie_curcio
um
37:11.32
natalie_curcio
Well, i will I will just add one thing to that. So um I did have an aha moment in my entire career that one of my ah loving mentors, Dr. Rick Logal, when I was at San Francisco, had said to me during my fellowship. And it's something I like, a piece of advice to pass out to everybody. And when things get tough, I like to remember this quote. And he said, you are amazing. Stop second guessing your instinct and start believing in yourself. Only then will you be able to project your true self to the world so that others can see that you are amazing too. And so I think, I tell people it was that advice in that day, in that moment that changed my life. I relinquished self-doubt ingrained in me by the many years of hierarchical training.
38:03.57
natalie_curcio
And um I confidently accepted my knowledge and intuition when it came to the practice of medicine. And now I can apply that also to business. And that's when I started projecting a more self assured image in my personal life. And it really liberated me from all that critique that was unnecessary that many people had given me along the way.
38:26.01
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
38:26.34
natalie_curcio
And, um,
38:26.87
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
38:27.84
natalie_curcio
It was you know that advice that allowed me to have the confidence that I knew that I could be successful to open my own business just as I had been in everything else I had done. And so when I hit these moments where I'm like, why can't I get in the door here? Or why can't I get this? It's like, just keep projecting that amazing inside of you. And somebody is going to open that door. And that's probably the right door to be opened. And if everybody can just approach life that way and find your Dr.
38:51.26
loriejones7
Mhm.
38:54.18
natalie_curcio
Glogel or whoever the mentor is, that can inspire you. Your life will be so much better. But I stopped letting people walk all over me. I stopped letting people talk down to me because that was the way it was in medical training. And i and i I told people, you've got to respect me as a fellow human being and physician, just like you do everybody else.
39:09.16
loriejones7
Mhm. Mhm.
39:15.36
natalie_curcio
And I i' am eternally grateful for that day that he kind of woke the real Natalie up.
39:24.69
loriejones7
I love that. And that, and it's so true. You know, you, you need to, you need to be your own best cheerleader and there's so much you've got inside of you.
39:33.44
natalie_curcio
Yes.
39:35.74
loriejones7
If you can just help others see what you see in yourself, but don't stop ever stop believing it. Even if they don't see it, don't stop believing that you can do anything.
39:46.21
natalie_curcio
Yeah, because it's so easy to be discouraged. I said, especially in medical training where all people do year after year, day after day is put you down. You know, this isn't good enough. This isn't good enough. You'll never get this. You'll never do that. And he was like, it's time to change the way you're doing things right now. and that And from that day forward, I did. And it was it was so liberating, and it was life-changing.
40:09.35
natalie_curcio
And I already was a confident person.
40:10.38
loriejones7
I'm going to put that quote on the show notes because I love that. I love that idea of just you know reminding yourself how really important and special and great and accomplished and successful you already are.
40:29.28
natalie_curcio
Yes.
40:33.69
loriejones7
What, Natalie, is the thing that you are the most proud of?
40:38.58
natalie_curcio
so So for me, there's not one one thing or one accomplishment or one award or anything. I think when I really look over the things that I have done, it's my versatility of accomplishment. you know um I did very well in all of my academic training to get to medicine. And as a doctor, writing my practice, I've received many awards and I've had many accomplishments. And then opening my own business, going to business school, I've had many accolades in being, you know, a top woman in business, a top woman of influence in that area. And then my pursuit of foreign languages. And I, you know, really maximize my ability with those skills, learning five languages, living, working, studying, even publishing.
41:26.76
natalie_curcio
abroad in different languages and I think what makes me really, you know, any of those things can make me unique but it's that kind of trifecta that really makes me stand out in a crowd of people and I'm very blessed to have had these skill sets and to be able to have pursued them because sometimes people don't realize they have a skill set till they're 70 years old or something and to have found them early and to have passion for all of them to be able to continue to pursue them.
41:58.03
loriejones7
I think that um you said something near the beginning of our our talk as well about encouraging and helping those that are coming up as well. um You take those talents and use them to benefit and help others life. So it's not just, you know, you that are growing, but you're actually helping others grow as well.
42:20.70
natalie_curcio
Yes.
42:23.78
natalie_curcio
Yes.
42:25.31
loriejones7
So any advice for a young lady who's maybe just starting down this path, you are so successful. I don't know what she'd choose though, Natalie. I mean, like, is she going to choose the languages? Is she going to choose the doctor? Is she going to own your own business? Like, which one is she going to choose? But say you met someone, a young lady just at the beginning of her path. What what advice would you give her?
42:48.87
natalie_curcio
So I have a couple of pieces of advice that I think can be broadly applied. So number one, I think a key set of core skills are really important. um Nothing comes without hard work. you know Nothing is going to be handed to you. um You need to have perseverance. You're going to hit roadblocks on the way, but you have to keep um going and pushing your way through. And then resilience is you have to be flexible. I always tell people, um I realized early, I thought everything had to go A to B to C, but sometimes you got to go A to C to B or A to D to C and back to B. And until you realize that that resilience and flexibility are key to hitting all the marks to get your goals, um you will not be successful.
43:34.85
natalie_curcio
And often when I thought someone threw a huge roadblock in my face and I thought things were done, it actually opened a better door that got me to a better position in the door that I thought I was looking for. So all of those keys are very important and were key to my success. um Number two, believe in yourself and your dreams. Never let anyone or anything get in the way. um One of my favorite quotes by Walt Disney is, if you dream it, you can be it. And I followed that quote my entire life.
44:06.84
natalie_curcio
and My third point is go for it.
44:07.55
loriejones7
Yeah.
44:10.09
natalie_curcio
So apply for whatever position, team, university, committee, award, youth, want or deserve. You'll never know unless you try. I have so many friends that were like going to apply to Harvard. Everyone's like, you can't get in. They applied on a bet and got in. Or when I won the Women of Influence Award, everyone's like, you're not good enough to get that award. Do you know how hard that was? I said, I'm going to go for it. I had a dream that I got the award and the next morning the acceptance was in my inbox. I mean, you never know. Apply for it. And if you don't get it, apply again.
44:42.26
natalie_curcio
It doesn't matter. So you just got to go for it. And you never know. The people are like, oh, you're not going to get on this committee. One in 50 people are picked, and I got it. So you just don't know what they're looking for. You don't know what piece of the puzzle they're trying to complete. But if you never apply, you'll never know. so And again, the worst that can happen is they say no when you apply again.
44:59.46
loriejones7
Yeah.
45:00.93
natalie_curcio
so um And then find great mentors and champions in life.
45:03.02
loriejones7
Yeah, that's what. nice
45:06.58
natalie_curcio
um People who will support you and guide you in your journey
45:08.58
loriejones7
ah Sorry, I was just going to say that's what I say as you always
45:15.12
loriejones7
and Sorry, I'm going to let you, let me, I was just going to say, Natalie, that that is exactly what I say. All they can ever tell you is no.
45:24.08
natalie_curcio
Yep.
45:24.08
loriejones7
And if you'd never ask you, you don't know. They might say yes. Right. So, um, if you don't mind starting like number four again.
45:33.52
natalie_curcio
um Number four, find great mentors and champions. um People who will support you and guide you on your journey. um They're wonderful when times are great, but they're even more important when times are tough and they will help lift you up back to where you need to be and get you back on track. um And people that are more like in the middle of their career, like I am now, you know, that includes like finding a great executive coach because those people can be really invaluable. And then number five, pay it forward. I'm a huge believer in that. Serve as a mentor to others and help support them. You know, I mentor students that are undergraduates that
46:10.21
natalie_curcio
um may want to do business in medicine, people who want to maybe get a master in public health, people who want to go to medical school, maybe they want to do an MPH first. I just had my second student get into a top 10 MPH school. My first student is going to medical school. This girl is, you know, ah second one's at coummb going to Columbia. It's a top three program. it's You find people that are motivated, driven it, passionate like you are, and you help them succeed. And usually they're extremely appreciative and those people are going to do it for the next generation.
46:42.07
natalie_curcio
And it's so important, and I've helped so many students like get into medical school I read essays for people I help people get into, you know, cosmetic or most fellowships help people get into dermatology residencies help them with their essays.
46:43.39
loriejones7
Yeah.
46:55.56
natalie_curcio
It's a passion for me and I love to help because people do the same thing for me. So however you can be helpful to people, I read college essays, I interviewed for undergrad and medical school at Vanderbilt for years, is just help the next generation because it's it's the way I've given back because sometimes people don't even realize the amount of help they've received. And if you pay it forward as a mentor, like I said, as a friend, that's that's the best way to ensure that the next generation is on the right track and things are only getting harder.
47:26.63
loriejones7
Yeah. And I think that you don't really know, um, you're putting all these different things out there, you know, the different ways that you're mentoring and helping and serving and, and growing that next generation. You don't really know where those ripples will take you. You know, some of them turn into tsunamis, ah you know, further on in, in these people's lives.
47:42.62
natalie_curcio
Yeah. Right.
47:47.05
loriejones7
And you have no idea how many lives you affect and how many lives you change with this one simple thing.
47:57.79
natalie_curcio
yeah and i should I should also include their volunteering. you know I volunteer for many, many committees in dermatology and health policy because that's what I'm passionate about and patient advocacy because we all benefit with better physician reimbursement, better access to care for patients, you know having doctors stay in practice and not all retire and things like that. so you know No step therapy and things like that, barriers again to drugs and things. So you want to volunteer your time to help people in whatever is your way of volunteering and helping people.
48:30.95
loriejones7
Yeah, I think that's really important too. I think that's important to touch on Natalie is the fact is it's like, I am not, I am going to admit something. I'm not at all passionate about medicine. Like I think it's kind of icky. It involves lots of different things like fluids and stuff, but I love finance.
48:45.96
natalie_curcio
yeah
48:48.83
loriejones7
So like giving back into that place is a good place for me.
48:52.33
natalie_curcio
Right.
48:52.87
loriejones7
You probably hate, well,
48:54.11
natalie_curcio
Right.
48:55.09
loriejones7
accounting at the very least, right?
48:56.21
natalie_curcio
Yeah.
48:56.56
loriejones7
But finance probably isn't your favorite thing.
48:59.33
natalie_curcio
Yeah.
48:59.53
loriejones7
um But then you serve in the areas that you're passionate about. And I think that brings an extra level of ah ah joy to those that we serve as well.
49:03.10
natalie_curcio
Right.
49:06.81
natalie_curcio
Yes.
49:09.37
loriejones7
so Well, I have just really appreciated our conversation, Natalie, and I've learned so much. And thank you so much for doing this for me. If I have listeners that want to reach out and kind of get um you know pick your brain or get some more information or or just ask you a question, how do they get ahold of you?
49:28.67
natalie_curcio
um they They can go to my website, www.cursiodermatology.com, and um they and under like request an appointment, they can send a message through that, or they could go to my website um and call the office and just say they heard me on this podcast and wanted to get ahold of me.
49:54.05
loriejones7
Well, perfect. Thank you so much for spending this time and and sharing your experience with us. I've really appreciated it.
50:01.50
natalie_curcio
Thank you for having me. I think at the core, we all have had adversity and triumph, and we all have that shared connection, deep down. And by sharing experiences with one another, we all can be better people.
50:19.56
loriejones7
Yeah, I agree 100%. We lift each other as we as we learn. And I love that you are so passionate about that. Thank you.
50:29.12
natalie_curcio
Thank you.