Join host Lorie Hones for an inspiring episode featuring Ellen Huff, a trailblazer in the healthcare industry and executive director of Savior Hospice in Lakeside, Arizona. Ellen shares her inspiring path from starting as an RN to leading her own team today at the executive level.
Listen in as Ellen discusses the importance of building a strong support network and shares her own strategies for overcoming self-doubt and career hurdles. Her candid reflections on the challenges and triumphs of her path will encourage listeners to embrace their own unique journeys.
This episode is a must-listen for growth-oriented women seeking inspiration and practical advice to excel in predominantly male-dominated fields. Tune in to hear Ellen’s empowering story of resilience and leadership that proves when women lift each other, the sky’s the limit.
Show Highlights:
- The power of saying yes to unexpected career opportunities. [05:59]
- How the right support boosts your professional confidence. [08:56]
- Insights on pursuing doctoral studies as a working parent. [10:54]
- How to navigate first-year nurse practitioner anxiety. [16:13]
- Value of holistic industry exposure over specialty myopia. [23:10]
- Advice for 20-year-olds overcoming trauma and insecurity. [26:20]
- Modeling leadership as an executive director substituting as a CNA. [31:23]
- Explore gender dynamics specific to nursing. [34:25]
- Learn about serving as a business in underserved areas. [40:04]
- Do you have a supportive network of women as a woman? [44:01]
If you would like to connect with Ellen Huff, email her at ellen@saviorhospice.org or visit https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellenhuff/.
To learn more about Savior Hospice, please visit https://www.saviorhospice.org/hospice-care/.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.40
Lorie Jones
Good the morning. So we're here today with Ellen Heff, who's the executive director of Savior Hospice in Lakeside, Arizona. And I'm so excited that you're joining us today, Ellen. I am fascinated by what you do.
00:16.50
Lorie Jones
Um, because I, I just as ah a side note, I've known Helen for a lot of years and I still don't know what she does. So I'm so excited to get to hear all the cool things that you have done throughout your life. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:34.24
Ellen Huff
Well, thank you for the invitation. I'm very grateful to be here.
00:39.39
Lorie Jones
So my first question is always the same. I'm a reader and I know you are too. So tell me what is your favorite book.
00:49.38
Ellen Huff
Okay, so my inner nerd has a favorite book and that is the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I find a lot of themes of good and evil, of life choices, of taking a path you didn't plan on like I find a lot of meaning in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. It's something that I read, probably every couple of years I'll read the entire trilogy. It's what one of my books of choice to fall asleep to because I read every night when I'm falling asleep. Now from a personal growth standpoint, my currently my favorite book is called the way the untethered soul. And it's just learning to know who you are and how you think and being aware of yourself
01:33.23
Ellen Huff
as a person, um which I think cannot help but improve my ability to lead and direct my team.
01:42.30
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. I like the Lord of the Rings too. i It took me a really long time to read that book. Like I started at four times, you know, the trilogy, but but the first one I started maybe four times and it took me until I was like 16 years old before I finally was like, okay, I'm gonna read it.
02:00.78
Ellen Huff
People give me Lord of the Rings stuff on a somewhat regular basis because they know I'm such a nerd.
02:06.00
Lorie Jones
I love that. I love it. I've got a guy here actually in my neighborhood who has like a literal Lord of the Rings museum in his house. I think that, yeah, we'll have to, I'll have to take you to that one day.
02:18.52
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about yourself.
02:18.66
Ellen Huff
Okay.
02:21.36
Lorie Jones
Tell me how you started. um Tell me a little bit about your journey and kind of what do you do now?
02:28.34
Ellen Huff
So a million years ago when I was a teenager, I started working in a nursing home as a nurse's assistant. I really had no idea what the job entailed. I just needed a job. And I figured I was the oldest girl in a large family. I knew how to take care of people. That was something I could do. So that's how I started. And then me as time went on, I um I pulled myself together and went to college. I got my practical nurse degree as I was working on my bachelor's degree. I became a registered nurse. I worked as a registered nurse for 16 years in various fields and capacities. And then in 2015, I became a nurse practitioner.
03:17.83
Ellen Huff
and which was a whole new thing after being a registered nurse for so many years. It was like starting all over again. And I was in family practice and urgent care for seven, almost eight years. And then I just needed a change. I was burnt out. I was way um undervalued and underpaid. I was working at home every single night taking work home with me and crying more often than I care to admit.
03:48.21
Ellen Huff
so I jumped tracks. I walked into interview at Xavier Hospice with the Vice President, um who I didn't know was the Vice President. The day I met her, she had her hair up in a ponytail and was wearing jeans and sneakers, putting together racks for storage in the storage room of a new office that she was opening up in Lakeside. And we just had this instant connection. And she said, I interviewed to do face to face visits as a nurse practitioner for her, which is where you go out and certify that hospice patients are appropriate by Medicare guidelines to stay on hospice. And we weren't even 10 minutes into a conversation and she said, you know what, I don't want you to come and do face to face interviews for me. I really want you to come be my executive director. And I was like, I don't know anything about running a business. I am a nurse.
04:46.89
Ellen Huff
I am a nurse practitioner. I take care of people. i don't you know I'm not a numbers gal. And she was like, you've got what it takes. You're it. You're my thing. I want you to be my executive director. Well, at the time I was in the middle of starting waiting to start another job in an urgent care clinic. And so I said, well, I need some time. I have a job. And she was willing to wait.
05:14.69
Ellen Huff
and she brought my CEO Jeff up and for several months, they both would come up from the Valley and meet with me. I live about three hours outside of Phoenix. Um, it would come up and meet with me and talk with me about what they were trying to do, what their philosophy is, what their approach to healthcare is. And they really were, patient they were so patient. I have to tell you, because I, I just couldn't,
05:46.09
Ellen Huff
It was a big jump for me to leave what I knew in healthcare care and start on something completely unknown. So obviously I did and I'm two years in and i and here's where I am today and I love it.
05:58.44
Lorie Jones
Yeah, i you know, you said it it was a big jump and and they were verily patient, but I know you, Ellen, and you are smart and driven and capable, and I bet that learning curve was pretty quick.
06:12.79
Ellen Huff
it's been It's only been in the last six months that I've really felt confident in what I'm doing and capable of doing all the things that my bosses have asked me to do. So thank you for that vote of confidence. But they they had a lot more faith in me than I did for a long time. And I think that's really what has kept me here is that both of my both my vice president and my CEO um were willing to invest in me.
06:39.89
Ellen Huff
had and stick it out with me and that really has made a huge impact in my life.
06:44.49
Lorie Jones
You must have had the courage, though, to say yes to that opportunity. like
06:50.83
Ellen Huff
I did, I was and was working in the mornings in hospice and in the afternoons I would go to the clinic and I was and would do four hours at each and I was just trying to figure out which fit me better and one day, bless this guy, one day I was sitting in the clinic, sitting in the doctor's chair,
07:09.70
Ellen Huff
The guy's up on the exam table and he's telling me all about how he's just dying. He's so sick. He had a cold. But he was dying. He was so sick and he was, you know, being all dramatic.
07:20.41
Ellen Huff
And I just thought to myself, I don't want to be doing this in five years. And it was like an explosion in my head. I don't want to be doing this in five years. There's my answer.
07:30.49
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
07:30.50
Ellen Huff
that's why That's when I made the decision to go all in and come to savior.
07:36.15
Lorie Jones
It's interesting that it took just a little while to figure that out. Like, like you were, like this is a huge opportunity, a huge risk too, but a huge opportunity. And you're like, you were very thoughtful about it.
07:51.84
Ellen Huff
I was I agonized about it actually and bless my husband he I have the best partner he's so patient and he's always been like do what you love find your path we'll make it work so I I would not be here today even without that support as well
08:07.52
Lorie Jones
That's great. So looking back over your journey, Ellen, can you think what was the best investment that you've made in yourself? Is there something you can look back on and say, oh my gosh, if I hadn't done that, I would not be where I'm at today.
08:22.73
Ellen Huff
Um, getting my master's degree really is what opened the door to all kinds of different paths. As a, as a registered nurse, I could do any kind of nursing and I could have a job anywhere in this country, anywhere in this world. I mean, nurses are always in need. They always, if you don't like one kind of nursing, you just go try something else. So as a nurse, I had a lot as an experienced nurse, I had a lot of options. Um, but.
08:51.77
Ellen Huff
deciding to go back to school and earn my master's degree in becoming a nurse practitioner, that's what really opened the door and made it possible for me to get to
09:04.18
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about that because I was watching you as you went through that time and you were trying to raise a family at the same time you were going to school. Like talk about what, is why?
09:17.32
Ellen Huff
i um i I made the decision to go to grad school over a period of several months. I had a nurse, I worked the night shift. All my years as a nurse, I worked nights. I'm a little bit of a maverick. I like to do things the way I see best and not necessarily by the rules. I know for some of you rule followers that will make you grind your teeth. And I apologize, but I always worked nights and I worked with a nurse named Jim. And one night Jim said, Ellen,
09:45.70
Ellen Huff
We should go get our master's degrees. We should go to grad school. We should become a nurse practitioners. And I was like, you are so full of crap. My kids are five and seven. there is just no That's just not realistic at all.
09:58.60
Ellen Huff
But it stuck in my head. And it just kind of stayed there in the back of my mind. And as I was working as a nurse, um nursing has become increasingly digitized.
10:09.38
Lorie Jones
Mm-hm.
10:13.77
Ellen Huff
And everything at the bedside is now about scanning barcodes and making sure that you've dot all the I's and cross all the T's and charting assessments in the computer and capturing charges so that the hospital can bill for the largest amount. And there are lots of good things to nursing, but I felt like I spent all of my time on a computer or scanning things, or I didn't spend time at the bedside.
10:40.95
Ellen Huff
I didn't spend time with my patients talking to them and getting to know them, which is what I really loved about nursing.
10:41.12
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
10:44.60
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
10:47.64
Ellen Huff
So I was a little disenchanted with traditional nursing roles at that point. And then I really started to take it seriously and really move towards going back to school.
11:01.95
Ellen Huff
The final straw was one night I had to call an elderly surgeon for an order for Tylenol, for a man that had no health history, no previous problems.
11:14.27
Ellen Huff
Like he broke in his leg or something and just had surgery. He just wanted some Tylenol. And the doc, the fact that I had to call the doctor, first of all, he didn't even write an order for that.
11:25.27
Ellen Huff
Second of all, I had to call him at 11 o'clock at night to ask him if I could please give this patient a Tylenol.
11:25.43
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
11:30.41
Lorie Jones
Okay.
11:31.50
Ellen Huff
I just thought this is stupid. I could have written this order myself. And that's what finally pushed me into going to grad school. So bless my husband, my children were about six and eight when I started back to school.
11:45.54
Ellen Huff
I waited until my youngest was in ah full day school, kindergarten where I live, kindergarten was only half day. And we really worked all the years that we were having this family.
11:57.27
Ellen Huff
My my partner and I really worked to not have to pay for childcare.
12:02.43
Lorie Jones
oh
12:02.40
Ellen Huff
I worked nights, he worked during the day.
12:03.17
Lorie Jones
yeah
12:04.32
Ellen Huff
I worked on the weekends so that he, I mean, we made it work. So I waited till my youngest was in all day school. That would give me more time to study. And I went to school full time and I continued to work in the emergency room full time and and had two children that were in school and needed some love and attention and help.
12:25.86
Lorie Jones
Oh,
12:28.57
Ellen Huff
And bless my husband, I don't know, to this day, I don't know how we stayed married because it was really hard for him.
12:29.13
Lorie Jones
yeah.
12:33.64
Ellen Huff
He was not a good cook. He is now. He makes delicious meals now. He did not like doing laundry. He still doesn't. But I mean, you know he didn't know how to do my daughter's hair.
12:45.46
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
12:45.33
Ellen Huff
He didn't like taking the kids everywhere. to you know He didn't like having to be Mr. Mom. It was a very hard adjustment for him.
12:51.11
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
12:53.54
Lorie Jones
Uh
12:53.38
Ellen Huff
So um it was crazy.
12:56.76
Lorie Jones
-huh.
12:56.85
Ellen Huff
ah Looking back now, I honestly, I don't know. how I made it. If I had to go back and do it again, I don't know. Like I don't know what I would, if I even realized what I was signing up for when I decided to go to school with small children.
13:10.28
Lorie Jones
how long did you how long was your education was it two years no
13:14.05
Ellen Huff
It was two and a half. I had to repeat one class. I was off of a B grade. And in grad school, in healthcare, care you cannot have less than a B.
13:30.18
Ellen Huff
So I had like a C++ plus plus and um ah the my instructor would not allow me to fix it, do any kind of extra credit, make it up.
13:36.62
Lorie Jones
How long was your education? Was it two years?
13:40.98
Ellen Huff
She would not budge. So I had to repeat one class.
13:43.00
Lorie Jones
Oh.
13:45.81
Ellen Huff
So it took me two and a half years.
13:46.09
Lorie Jones
Did you cry? I would have maybe cried.
13:48.08
Ellen Huff
I did cry tears of rage. I hated that woman for the rest of the time I was in nursing school.
13:52.84
Lorie Jones
I bet.
13:54.52
Ellen Huff
Yeah.
13:55.72
Lorie Jones
And you said it was a little bit different when she became a registered nurse after being in the nursing field. like what was like What was so different about it?
14:05.25
Ellen Huff
So I knew how to take care of people. I knew how to take care of them physically, how to give them medications, how to calm them down and make them feel better if they were having a bad day. I could do lots of things. I could do lots of procedures like start IVs. or lots of I had lots of skills as a nurse. As a new nurse practitioner, I had some skills. I learned skills like suturing.
14:32.71
Ellen Huff
or you know skin biopsies, I mean, well woman stuff. I learned how to do those things, but I wasn't an expert at them. I was a brand new novice and it really took me right back to when I first graduated from nursing school. People ask you, like the first time I did a procedure on a 16, it was a 16 year old boy, his mother said, have you done this before? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I've done it before. In my head, I thought,
15:00.48
Ellen Huff
I just reviewed this procedure in my textbook and watched the YouTube video three times. So God help me. I better get this right. um i did You never admit, listen, for all of you listeners, you people that watch this podcast, do not ever ask a medical professional if they've done a procedure before.
15:21.20
Ellen Huff
Don't ask them.
15:22.44
Lorie Jones
You don't want to know.
15:22.39
Ellen Huff
You don't want to know the answer. They will most likely lie to you. If the answer is no, they're going to say yes. Just don't ask.
15:27.40
Lorie Jones
ah ah
15:28.40
Ellen Huff
um So I went from being an expert nurse to being a novice nurse practitioner. Every night, every every morning for my first year of practice, I would drag to work and think, please don't let me kill anyone today. Please let me have the wisdom to know what is right and what is wrong. Please help me have the knowledge to find the right tab on Google. I mean, I you know i would have these very heartfelt pleas sent out into the universe.
15:59.02
Ellen Huff
um every day for my first year as a nurse practitioner because I knew inside that I didn't know enough. I knew enough to pass my boards, which is like the bare minimum of safety. If you can pass your boards, that means you are marginally safe to practice. So I knew that I was not the best nurse practitioner out there. So it was hard to go from a mentality of I'm an expert.
16:24.33
Ellen Huff
I got this. I can handle anything that is thrown at me in this emergency room today. I can handle it too. I don't know what I'm doing. I could kill people. Um, it was very difficult mentally to, to step back down and go back to being this humble new grad of please teach me, please teach me, please, you know.
16:34.36
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
16:44.46
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
16:44.34
Ellen Huff
Um, so it was just hard to kind of reset everything back to the very beginning.
16:46.68
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And that's, I guess I've never really thought about that before about the, you know, you always know that like, I've never been to the doctor really where I've had any sort of life threatening thing, but, but you guys do, you handle life and death situations. It's, you know, on my shoulders are placed the weight of somebody's retirement savings, but your shoulders are placed their life. That's.
17:17.20
Ellen Huff
um so much Well, not so much these days, but yes, when I was in family practice and urgent care for sure, for sure.
17:21.26
Lorie Jones
Right. Yeah. that's that's ah that would That would be a hard mantle to to hold. But ah again, I've known you a lot of years, Ellen, and I'm sure that you were not nearly as... as the You were probably more scared than you were unknowledgeable. I would have put bets on you a hundred times over that you you got that.
17:44.78
Ellen Huff
Thank you for that.
17:47.25
Lorie Jones
So did you as you were going through your journey, did you ever get some really bad advice? Like, did anyone tell you what's the worst advice you've ever gotten? And did you take it or did you not?
17:57.17
Ellen Huff
um The worst advice I ever got um was probably the most recent, as far as being an executive director,
18:12.65
Ellen Huff
As far as being a senior executive, the worst advice I got was, yeah, go ahead and go to lunch with that guy. I'm sure it's no big deal. It turned out it was a lunch with a headhunter who wanted to recruit me to a competitor. um And that led to some very awkward conversations with my boss. I didn't realize, and stupid me, I hadn't been headhunted as a nurse. You just always got what you wanted. You could find a job anywhere.
18:41.47
Ellen Huff
I'd never had someone call me and say, hey, I'd like to take you to lunch. So you can all laugh that I didn't realize what I was walking into. But I went to this lunch. I was tempted for about 30 seconds. It would be an easier position than being a director. I would continue to do face to faces with hospice patients and do some marketing. And, you know, I do various things for this other company, but I would not hold the reins or the responsibility for making an office successful like I do now.
19:13.31
Ellen Huff
So about for about 30 seconds I was tempted at this lunch and then reality set in and I and i you know quickly realized that that wasn't what I wanted.
19:13.51
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
19:26.32
Ellen Huff
But I walked out of that lunch, hopped in my car, I was driving home to pick up my husband, we were going out of town. So I was driving home, my boss called right about the time I was driving home. I hadn't had time to process it yet. I hadn't had time to think about how I felt or what I wanted to talk to my, how I wanted to talk about it. If it came up, at you know, with my employer, I hadn't had have any time to process it yet. So um I had some really tense awkward conversations over the next few days with my employers and looking back
20:03.19
Ellen Huff
I wish I wouldn't have taken that advice and gone ahead and gone to lunch with that person. But I learned quite a bit about myself, about the people I work for, and about where I want to be by taking that bad advice. So was it good advice? No. Should I have taken it? Probably not. um But in the long run, did it really help me clarify what my goals are? Yes, 100%.
20:34.04
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that's interesting because a lot of times when you um when you make a mistake or you do something that you wish you would have done differently in hindsight, right? You learn. You learn from it. And and sometimes they're not the most pleasant and easy lessons.
20:54.78
Lorie Jones
Sometimes they're hard and not fun at all, but but I do think that part of learning who you are and growing into who you're going to become is learning how to deal with those really hard situations and having some of those really hard situations.
21:08.46
Ellen Huff
Right.
21:08.76
Lorie Jones
If life was easy, you wouldn't be amazing, right?
21:11.44
Ellen Huff
right All the good things come through difficulty. That's what I've learned.
21:16.25
Lorie Jones
So um what about, let's talk about a situation that you might not regret, but if you could go back and do it differently and maybe it's just the one that you talked about, but is there anything along your journey where you're like, gosh, if I knew now or knew then what I know now, I would have done that so much differently. Like,
21:39.86
Ellen Huff
You know, this sounds a little odd, but I would have done my clinical experiences in NP school differently. i would have I stayed with the same nurse practitioner for my whole 800 hours or however many 100 hours I had to get. And with hindsight, I wish I would have spent some time with the dermatologist, spent some time with women's health, spent some time with an orthopedic surgeon.
22:09.56
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
22:11.43
Ellen Huff
I wish I would have um started out a little more well rounded. Over the years, I became much more well rounded, but gosh, it would have been nice to have a little better idea of some of those things, some of those harder fields of nursing or healthcare before I jumped in with both feet.
22:30.45
Ellen Huff
um It was pretty stupid.
22:30.77
Lorie Jones
Maybe it would have made that first year a little easier too, a little less scary.
22:35.75
Ellen Huff
It probably would have
22:37.49
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Did you have the opportunity to do that, to do it with several different people and you just didn't know? and
22:44.58
Ellen Huff
i I could have, I had to find my own preceptors and um I don't think I had the confidence to reach out to these other providers and say, hey, I'd really like to come follow you for a semester or for a month or for two months or however long. ah And also I was wrapped for time. i Honestly, it didn't even occur to me because it was all I could do to get through grad school, get through my clinicals, keep my children and my husband together, body and soul, and keep a paycheck coming.
23:19.60
Lorie Jones
and
23:19.62
Ellen Huff
I just don't know that I could have even if I wanted to.
23:24.04
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that makes sense. Like, looking back, you wish you could have, but maybe even even given your knowledge, you might still have had to make the same decision because of the other outside factors in your life.
23:37.93
Ellen Huff
And i think we all i I think we all find ourselves in those kinds of positions sometimes where would we have done things differently?
23:38.36
Lorie Jones
so
23:44.90
Ellen Huff
Sure. But if we could, would we have ended up in the same place? Sometimes yes.
23:50.56
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
23:51.00
Ellen Huff
Maybe not always, but sometimes, you know I'm a firm believer that you end up in the path that is best for you. So maybe I would have ended up here regardless of how twisted and difficult my path was.
24:07.10
Ellen Huff
Who knows?
24:09.51
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that's interesting. It's an interesting thought to look back on. I actually, that's one of the questions that I'm considering changing up because everyone's always like, oh, I don't have regrets or I couldn't have done anything differently. But I like the idea of like looking back and and and just kind of um taking stock of what we did. and And maybe it's just like in your situation where you're just like,
24:32.99
Lorie Jones
yeah I would have liked to have done that but but truthfully and honestly I was stretched thin and I may not have been able to even if I'd wanted to so so to make yourself feel like you know what I did the very best I could yeah yeah so if you could go back and talk to your younger self at 20 years old when you were just starting to get your nursing degree you know just early on what advice would you have for her
24:46.45
Ellen Huff
Be forgiving of yourself.
25:04.73
Ellen Huff
Oh gosh, how much time do you have? At 20, I was still, I had a very happy childhood until one day I came home from school and my mom was gone.
25:18.28
Ellen Huff
And um that left me reeling and changed, fundamentally changed a lot of things in my life. Both how I felt about myself, how I perceived the world and where I thought I was going to go.
25:32.62
Lorie Jones
Ha ha ha!
25:33.15
Ellen Huff
so I was struggling with that. I was struggling with the lack of self-confidence that all young women face. I'm too fat. I'm too ugly. I'm not smart enough. I'm not athletic. in you know We have all of that paralyzing self-doubt and insecurity. um At 20, I had just placed my second child for adoption because I was dumb and I had to do it twice to learn.
26:02.78
Ellen Huff
um And i know I know that birth control was well available in the 90s.
26:03.76
Lorie Jones
We all have
26:09.62
Ellen Huff
I know. um I was just dumb. But I wouldn't be the woman I am today without those very difficult experiences. So at 20, I was a mess. And honestly, if I could go back, I would tell my 20-year-old self, first of all, don't be so damn dumb.
26:29.40
Ellen Huff
First of all, them all get some counseling. Because it took me a long time to process how I felt, what I thought about those experiences. It just seemed like things piled up on top of each other, one on top of the other. And I never really got time to finish processing one before the next catastrophe fit. So I would have told myself, invest in some counseling. Learn you know to forgive yourself, forgive your parents, to you know recognize your strengths, and move on.
27:03.09
Ellen Huff
I feel like I wouldn't have wasted so much time in my 20s.
27:09.07
Ellen Huff
And I probably would have actually taken a very different career path if I weren't so such a mess at 20.
27:17.22
Lorie Jones
what What do you think you would have done?
27:17.80
Ellen Huff
So um I would have gone to medical school. I would have become a doctor.
27:22.24
Lorie Jones
Would you? Okay.
27:23.55
Ellen Huff
And I i hate to say that out loud.
27:23.91
Lorie Jones
Cause I'm like, I don't, I don't. Yeah.
27:26.99
Ellen Huff
I know i know it's such a stupid thing. Um, but as a nurse practitioner, I constantly face criticism because I'm not a doctor. It's actually a big part of why I left family practice because I did not receive a bonus or a raise for five years. And I was told, well, you're not a doctor. Well, you're, you're not, you're, you know, you're an advanced practice provider. You're a physician enabler. You're not a doctor.
27:59.67
Ellen Huff
um I love medicine. I think I would have been a great doctor in a specialty field. um and But it wasn't it wasn't in the cards. I was too much of a mess at 20 to really get serious about doing the GMAT and and settling down to do medical school. I actually left my family practice position because I When I really pushed for bonuses and raises for all of the advanced practice providers in my system, I was on the financial committee and I was pushing. Look, the doctors get bonuses. You just gave raises to the CNAs. You gave raises to the nurses. What about the PAs, the physician assistants and the nurse practitioners? We deserve something. And my boss at the time looked me right in the eye and said, you overvalue yourself. And I thought, are you are you kidding me?
28:53.58
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
28:53.65
Ellen Huff
I work just as hard as your physicians. I'm a better provider than a lot of your physicians. My satisfaction scores are higher. My billing and coding accuracy is higher than a lot of your physicians.
29:06.49
Ellen Huff
You're telling me I'm wronging myself. I was like, I'm done.
29:09.60
Lorie Jones
yeah
29:09.55
Ellen Huff
I'm looking for a new job. So it would have been a lot easier to be a doctor and not have to face the constant criticism.
29:16.51
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
29:19.80
Ellen Huff
Um, even in Even in the hospice world, I get some pushback because I'm not a doctor. And that's very frustrating for me.
29:25.64
Lorie Jones
Huh. I can imagine.
29:28.04
Ellen Huff
And that's something that I haven't been able to make a long lasting impactful change yet. If I could, I would. But I ah at least start in the community that I live in and the environment that I live in.
29:41.30
Ellen Huff
That's the best I can do. But I would have loved to have been a doctor.
29:45.06
Lorie Jones
that's a I thought you were going to say something different. And I can't imagine you being anything but a medical professional. so So a doctor sounds good.
29:54.22
Ellen Huff
The funny thing is all almost all of my siblings are in business.
29:54.43
Lorie Jones
but Yeah.
29:59.86
Ellen Huff
So I probably would have done really well in business, but I didn't choose to go after a business degree. And then here I am in business.
30:08.80
Lorie Jones
That's funny.
30:09.45
Ellen Huff
I just went about it the the the backwards way, but I have ended up being an executive in a business just like some of my siblings.
30:10.25
Lorie Jones
That's you.
30:18.02
Ellen Huff
So it is kind of funny to look and see where I'm at. There are probably a lot faster straighter lines to get here than the one that I took that's for sure Well, I
30:27.30
Lorie Jones
But I think it must add something to your position to have you have all of that practical knowledge. um you know So that as you as you do your role and you're overseeing some of the the pieces that you used to actually hands on the ground do, right?
30:49.15
Ellen Huff
feel that the leadership sets the tone for the team. And my two bosses have been fantastic mentors for me on that. I have always felt very strongly that women should lift women. I have very little tolerance for the mean girl mentality, that I'm going to be mean to you because I don't like you or because you're not like me or because whatever.
31:16.45
Ellen Huff
Um, so I feel like leadership is best modeled through behavior. And to this day I keep under my desk, I keep a pair of scrubs and some tennis shoes and some socks.
31:26.23
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
31:29.48
Ellen Huff
So that should I be needed to help out if somebody, if one of my staff is in trouble, I need help that I can do that. So. In the two years I've been in this role, I have gone out as a CNA, as a nurse's assistant, and assisted my vice president, who went out as the nurse, um to do a home visit. I wear the admissions nurse hat quite frequently. I do home visits. If my nurses are strapped and they need me to pick up medications, I go do it. If they need me to go tuck in a patient, I go do it.
32:06.19
Ellen Huff
If they need me to you know just call and deal with a family member, I do it. I feel like that is the number one way to strengthen and build my team is to show them that I'm willing to serve, I'm willing to help.
32:21.45
Ellen Huff
And if I'm willing to do it, they have to also be willing to do it.
32:25.60
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
32:25.45
Ellen Huff
And that is a very strong theme in my office.
32:28.67
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
32:29.56
Ellen Huff
And every person that works for me will tell you, well, Ellen works harder than anyone else in this office, and she just expects us to keep up.
32:36.81
Lorie Jones
yeah Yeah, I like that. how um and And that probably also, if you if you turn it around and think of yourself when you were just starting out and you were that you know brand new, how nice would it have been to have a mentor that was that compassionate and kind of involved in sort of a good role model and example to help you?
33:00.50
Ellen Huff
I have had some really good examples over the years. And unfortunately, in nursing, there's a saying nurses eat their young, meaning that older nurses are mean and unhelpful to younger newer nurses. And that phrase has always bothered me. I've had some really great mentoring nurses over the years and I've been lucky to have some really great mentoring bosses and supervisors over the years. So um I don't think anyone can become successful without a cheerleader, without a mentor to push them and help them to understand the important points of whatever their role is.
33:43.49
Ellen Huff
um I don't think you could make it without someone helping to guide you along the way.
33:49.28
Lorie Jones
I love that. And I love that you're doing it for those that are coming after you, you know, helping to build and grow them. What about unique challenges?
34:00.28
Lorie Jones
Did you face any unique challenges because you were a woman? Nursing is predominantly women, but...
34:06.36
Ellen Huff
It is. And in some ways that makes it more difficult. I often joke that I love working with men.
34:09.77
Lorie Jones
Okay.
34:12.64
Ellen Huff
because they bring the estrogen level way down. Because a unit full of female nurses can have a lot of unkindness and backstabbing and cattiness, but you bring a male nurse onto the floor and that goes way down.
34:29.31
Ellen Huff
Like more than 75%. I mean, unfortunately, women tend to behave better when there's a guy around.
34:35.88
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh.
34:38.25
Ellen Huff
So I've always joked about that. um and And it's a difficult sometimes to work in a group of women. Now, I know, having listened to a lot of your other guests on this podcast, that it's also hard to be the only woman in the room. And I haven't had that to date.
35:02.81
Ellen Huff
But standing out as a woman among women can be difficult, standing up and saying, you know, standing up for whatever is right in a group of women that aren't interested in that can be very difficult. So it's unique, that I would say that's a unique aspect of working in healthcare. One day, my then director of clinical was I can't even remember what she was going on about. She was she was after me about something that I wasn't doing to, her she didn't think I was doing a good enough job of. And she wasn't being really aggressive in her criticism. She was just kind of passive aggressively picking a little bit about me not getting whatever it was done. And I finally stepped turned to her and said, you don't understand what I'm doing here. Not only am I responsible for all of the people that work for me,
35:59.46
Ellen Huff
I'm responsible for their families. I'm responsible to help make sure that food gets on their tables and their mortgages get paid. But not only that, I'm responsible to our to our clients, to our both our patients that we care for, the vendors that we work with. And last but not least, I am responsible to grow each and every person that works in this office. So while you see that I'm not doing this one thing, you need to understand that not only am I trying to do that one thing,
36:29.41
Ellen Huff
But I am also trying to grow and mold and mentor each person that works under me.
36:35.88
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh.
36:35.84
Ellen Huff
So leave me alone. We're really quiet. I think that surprised her. I don't think she'd ever thought about the fact that we grow our employees.
36:44.47
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
36:44.54
Ellen Huff
we you know We have a profound impact on whether or not somebody is inspired to do their best or if they're just going to slack off and do the bare minimum to get a paycheck. i think as management, no matter where you are on the hierarchy of management, as a ah supervisor of other people, your impact um on their motivation and their progress can be astounding. And that is something while the challenges in health care and women, women in health care are
37:18.60
Ellen Huff
are a bit different from women in in the rest of the business world. I think that is something that carries across all levels of all kinds of professional interactions that we have a profound effect upon the people below us and we grow them to our standards so that we can keep moving on to higher things as well.
37:38.04
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Um, and I think that's gender neutral as well. Like, you know, you, you, you find that in, in men as their, I think they also have a responsibility as a supervisor to, to grow and mentor and help um those under their care.
37:57.21
Lorie Jones
Do you find that is healthcare care um on the at the upper echelons at the director level like you, is that, is does it have a glass ceiling or is there just as many women or?
38:12.13
Ellen Huff
If there is a glass ceiling, I haven't hit it yet.
38:16.57
Lorie Jones
Good job.
38:17.07
Ellen Huff
So, I mean, I don't know where I'm going to go from here. um But I think the potential for me to continue to grow is there. Do I feel stifled in my current role?
38:28.73
Ellen Huff
No. Am I challenged to grow on a daily basis in this role? Yes. Will I continue to get better? Of course. But where will I go from here? like am i Is this the best I can hope to accomplish? I don't think so. I don't know where I'll end up, but I don't think this is the ah best last place that I'll be.
38:53.31
Lorie Jones
and there' And there's a lot of opportunities in the C-suite of health care. I don't understand C-suites of health care. I understand C-suites of business. so
39:04.95
Ellen Huff
Sometimes C-suites of health care can be a little top heavy. You know what I mean? But I i don't i don't know. I i mean, that I could get a ah chief nursing officer certification.
39:19.86
Ellen Huff
That just takes a matter of months and a matter of money. And then I could be a C-suite at any major hospital or any major health care corporation across the country.
39:30.80
Ellen Huff
um But I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do, where I want to go.
39:35.33
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
39:36.37
Ellen Huff
um I don't feel like I'm limited in only being able to do this one thing.
39:41.57
Lorie Jones
yeah
39:41.48
Ellen Huff
And I'm fortunate enough to work for people who also don't think that I am limited in only being able to do this one thing.
39:49.39
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
39:49.47
Ellen Huff
I think if I found a direction that they could be supportive of, they would encourage me to go do it. And that's an amazing feeling to know that the people above you are trying to lift you.
39:57.11
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
40:00.79
Lorie Jones
Yeah, and and in turn probably helps you to lift those below because you're you're feeling so much support above.
40:06.59
Ellen Huff
Yeah.
40:09.83
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that idea. but Everybody gets lifted then, huh? So, Ellen, what is a thing you are most proud of?
40:20.44
Ellen Huff
As far as my professional accomplishments, I'm most proud of the work that I have done here as the executive director. So um I was there.
40:36.03
Ellen Huff
first office outside of the Metro Phoenix area, which meant not only was I learning how to grow a business in a ah rural environment, um they were learning how to grow a business in a rural environment and how to support their director who was learning A, how to do the job, but B, also how to do it in a small community. The community where I live in probably a 60 to 100 mile radius has maybe 100,000 people.
41:09.79
Ellen Huff
We are we an underserved population. The poverty level is shockingly high here. I'm in the 1% by virtue of the fact that I have a college degree and I work in a good job.
41:23.30
Ellen Huff
And that's, it makes healthcare very difficult. So I'm very proud that I've been able to build this team and build this office
41:32.42
Lorie Jones
Oh, wow.
41:33.78
Ellen Huff
to where it is today. We started out with, I think there were three of us sitting at the table the first day.
41:39.46
Lorie Jones
ah wow
41:39.35
Ellen Huff
And we had, I don't know if we even had a patient yet when I started.
41:45.83
Ellen Huff
So we've grown from that to, you know, i last year I had 350 referrals in 2024. So from zero patients to all of that work has been pretty amazing.
42:00.02
Ellen Huff
It's been a pretty amazing journey. It's been hard.
42:02.39
Lorie Jones
I was just going to say, make sure you give yourself enough credit for that because yes, you're so proud of it, but you worked dang hard to get there too.
42:10.47
Ellen Huff
Yes, I have worked really hard. My husband is ready for me to work less hard. um I will tell you that I have learned in the two years of basically running a startup that the right people come at the right time. And that's been a great thing to learn sometimes when I feel like, oh, this is never going to come together. I just lost a key player. How am I going to replace this key player?
42:39.09
Ellen Huff
this, you know, this key team member, the right person tends to come at the right time or the right thing happens at the right time. And I, I don't know that I really felt that from a business standpoint, or even as a nurse, all my years in healthcare, I don't know that I really embraced that.
42:47.57
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
42:56.38
Ellen Huff
Um, but I think, you know, you if you work hard enough, my husband might kill me for that. If you work hard enough and you know, you,
43:09.17
Ellen Huff
trust in the process the right things come at the right time I more than once I have had someone come through my door and I thought this is it this is the piece this is the person that is supposed to be in this role and that's been kind of surprising and it's taken some real work to learn to trust my my gut my intuition that this person is going to be a good fit or this person is not going to be a good fit more than once I have a
43:19.28
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm.
43:38.73
Ellen Huff
I have learned that as well. But I think the thing I'm most proud of is that I have managed to build this team and keep it going. And at this point, I think we're here for the long haul.
43:52.26
Ellen Huff
My bosses are stuck with me.
43:52.62
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
43:55.96
Lorie Jones
Yep, and tell you about that next take over the universe.
43:56.16
Ellen Huff
no
44:00.45
Lorie Jones
Maybe it could be director of healthcare North America or something like that, right?
44:00.94
Ellen Huff
Yes. Yes. Yes, we have a running joke in my family about trying to take over the world.
44:06.32
Lorie Jones
yeah
44:09.57
Ellen Huff
What's your next step in your in your path to taking over the world? Not that we're really going to accomplish it, but it is kind of a running joke.
44:16.84
Lorie Jones
But you do too keep trying. Yeah.
44:18.82
Ellen Huff
Yeah.
44:19.41
Lorie Jones
So any advice for a young woman who is just starting down this path, you're already so successful at if she were at the beginning of her journey, what would you what advice would you give her?
44:30.28
Ellen Huff
um I would encourage young women to Find something they enjoy doing. They don't have to love it. They don't have to think, oh, this is what I want to do forever. But when you go to work every day and you have to do the same thing every day, you better like it. So find something that you enjoy doing. It doesn't have to be your passion, but it has to be something you enjoy. Second of all, build your tribe. And by that, I mean find the women who are going to lift you and support you. Every woman has a tribe.
45:03.46
Ellen Huff
um we are not I do not believe that we are meant to be islands, that we are meant to be all alone. I think women can be the most successful when they have a support group of other women helping to tug them along, push them up, pull them up, whichever. um And I think that we can't really achieve our best potential without having the that group of women to support us and for us to support them. I think it really brings a dimension to our professional lives that we don't even understand. I don't think I could be here without all of the women that have supported me and helped me over the years. So in this time of division and separatism and you're not like me, so we can't be friends.
45:55.22
Ellen Huff
You don't have the same political views. You don't have the same financial status. You don't have the same whatever. You know, we are very divided as a society now. And I think um it's very it can be very challenging to overcome some of those differences of opinion.
46:11.22
Ellen Huff
But boy, do we need each other. And and although, you know, it seems like we're drifting farther and farther apart as people in a society, I think for women to be successful.
46:13.50
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
46:22.54
Ellen Huff
For any young woman to really achieve what what it is that she wants to do in her life, she needs a tribe. So that would be my second piece of advice.
46:32.37
Lorie Jones
I love that. I love that idea of finding a tribe because because that idea of connection and really meeting other people and I think that that COVID kind of put a damper on that where it sort of felt like you were like an island and and everyone was an introvert and we all went home and hunkered down um and it just even I am an introvert and even for me it was so hard not to have that that tribe of women and that and that caring group of people that are trying to lift you up. I love that thought. Ellen, thank you so much for spending some time with me today and sharing your story and sharing your journey. If I have a listener that wants to get in touch with you and ask some questions, how does she do that?
47:15.35
Ellen Huff
um The best way is to reach out to me through email. I see my professional email all day every day. So that would be Ellen, E-L-L-E-N, at Save Your Hospice.
47:26.12
Ellen Huff
all one word, all lowercase. That savior is S-A-B-I-O-R hospice is H-O-S-P-I-C-E dot.org. That would be the best way. I'm happy to happy to mentor or at least point someone in in the right direction.
47:41.59
Lorie Jones
Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
47:44.34
Ellen Huff
Gloria, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.