Welcome to Fearless Females with your host, Lorie Jones. In this episode, we celebrate the remarkable journey of Uma Gopaldass, a powerhouse in green energy and governance.
From her roots in Singapore to leading global initiatives, Uma shares her secrets to thriving in male-dominated fields. Discover how she conquers challenges with grace and grit, the role of self-belief, and the importance of ethical leadership.
Whether you’re scaling the corporate ladder or launching your own venture, Uma’s story will ignite your ambition and broaden your horizons. Don’t miss this electrifying conversation with a true leader!
Show Highlights:
- Follow the epic story of this incredible corporate woman. [00:04:54]
- What green gold shows about the future of your business. [00:16:16]
- Why every girl must invest in her brain before beauty. [00:19:42]
- Discover how to successfully break the glass ceiling. [00:23:36]
- Why cross-cultural women must create corporate change. [00:26:27]
- The power of self-belief and tactics to build it. [00:32:03]
- “CEO whisperer” tips to overcome fear of failure. [00:35:45]
- Are you biased against yourself as a woman? [00:38:27]
- Explore the joy of gratitude and giving back. [00:44:06]
- Top advice for every young woman’s personal manifesto. [00:47:40]
To connect with Uma Gopaldass, go to her LinkedIn profile at https://www.linkedin.com/in/uma-devi-gopaldass-cdi-d-6589ab4/, or visit her website at https://www.leadinglotus.com/.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to http://fearless-females.com/
00:01.15
loriejones7
Good morning. So we are here with Uma Gopoldes.
00:06.68
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, I nailed it.
00:06.68
loriejones7
Did I get it right?
00:08.40
Uma Gopaldass
That's nice.
00:09.62
loriejones7
I'm close. Uma, go ahead and tell me what your name is one more time.
00:14.74
Uma Gopaldass
Okay, so the full name is Uma Devi Gopal Das.
00:21.64
loriejones7
So we're just gonna talk to Uma today because i I got it right beforehand, but man, that's, she is the board governance expert and she's got a really, she works mostly in the um alternative energy space, the green energy.
00:24.56
Uma Gopaldass
There you go.
00:38.69
loriejones7
And I'm super excited to just hear about your journey today.
00:39.05
Uma Gopaldass
Yes.
00:42.23
loriejones7
Thank you so much for joining us and I'm really excited to get started.
00:46.54
Uma Gopaldass
Well, thank you for having me and I would like to acknowledge that you're doing this Fearless Female podcast and I'm absolutely happy that someone's doing it. Thank you.
00:55.37
loriejones7
Oh, good. So the very first question Uma is always my favorite. I love reading. What is your favorite book?
01:05.04
Uma Gopaldass
You know, um my a lot of people are kind of different. I know my best friend reads books like she's drinking water. I'm not one of those. I think I burnt out in school in Asia. I'm from Singapore ah reading a lot of textbooks. So I'm not a person who enjoys reading books. And I read a lot of texts for work, so a lot of corporates. Well, but I do have to say this one book, I actually have it on hand here. ah This was given to be ah my godmother who passed away soon after she gave me this book. It's called The Prophet. um A lot of people know it's a poem a collection of poems by Khalil Gibran.
01:44.89
loriejones7
Oh.
01:45.77
Uma Gopaldass
it's it's I think it was quite in early stages of like 1940s or something like that. It was first published for poetry. it And this really has helped me through my life stages. And um my godmother, she was she was diagnosed with cancer. And she picked up this book and passed it to me when I had ah when i was going through some tough times. So that's one of my favorite books. i mean says If you need a poetry book and I'm very into artistic stuff, so this was my favorite book.
02:18.12
Uma Gopaldass
Other than that, there's so many out there, right?
02:18.41
loriejones7
and Oh, yeah, there's a lot and I like that you kind of have trended towards like, I you can only read so many um how tos and, you know, do this and and the white papers.
02:20.24
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
02:32.09
loriejones7
Oh my goodness for these securities investment. I like like I just read them when I want to go to sleep. basic um ah So I love that you've brought something that's creative and and has that sense of just
02:38.92
Uma Gopaldass
ah do
02:46.99
Uma Gopaldass
yeah I have strategically placed a lot of self-help books everywhere in the house, near the near the bathroom, near everywhere where I might have some attention span.
02:47.09
loriejones7
being beautiful, ah bring beauty.
03:00.62
Uma Gopaldass
They're still sitting there collecting dust.
03:04.72
loriejones7
I love it.
03:05.69
Uma Gopaldass
I tried.
03:05.91
loriejones7
So I do a book club for my kids. And the way I do this book club is I just decide what book we're reading and send it to all of my children.
03:09.18
Uma Gopaldass
boom Nice.
03:14.25
loriejones7
And then I like when I get on the phone with them, I'm like, so how do you like our book? And I think they're still sitting there next to the bathroom gathering dust. most
03:22.16
Uma Gopaldass
ah
03:22.94
loriejones7
use Yeah.
03:25.67
Uma Gopaldass
I love it. I mean, it's it's good to start them young though. like my My best friend started young with Nancy Drews and all of that stuff, right?
03:33.03
loriejones7
yeah
03:33.42
Uma Gopaldass
And my godson, which is her kid, is about 11. And he reads. He was reading since he was like seven or six. So he reads piles. And now he reads ah airplane books. So how do you build an airplane kind of stuff? So yeah, I'm not one of those.
03:50.38
loriejones7
journey Well, Well, tell me a little bit about your journey, Uma. How did you get where you're at today? Kind of what do you do? Just let us learn a little bit about you.
04:01.54
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, so I come from Singapore, Singapore now, you know, everyone knows it as this bling society, rich, green, clean, fun, you know, the the the country that has that boat-like ship on top of the three hotels. Maybe the famous ones, yeah, the infinity pool and all that.
04:20.05
loriejones7
yeah
04:23.42
Uma Gopaldass
ah But Singapore wasn't like that all the time. I grew up in 1970, so I was born 1974. It was, you know, it was back in the days, fresh out of its colonization, about 17, 14 years, and we had a lot of growing up to do.
04:41.56
loriejones7
Uh,
04:41.74
Uma Gopaldass
So poverty was huge. I come from an extremely poor family. but I'm extremely lucky and grateful for being born in Singapore because the country itself recognized that it was a limited population, very small population, small island in order for us to survive.
04:46.89
loriejones7
yeah.
04:59.41
Uma Gopaldass
All of us, including the women population, the diverse population, regardless of language, race or creed, had to work. So we were all working our tusho. I never saw my parents. We were latchkey kids. But education was number one for Singapore, so we were highly educated regardless of our background. The government forced us all into education. We got our degree from the National Museum of Singapore. I did, at that time I was becoming famous for procurement and logistics. That time was like supply chain was a new word. and It was like, woo! So um so i I majored in operations management, finance, and procurement and logistics. So kind of like triple majored.
05:42.93
loriejones7
You just said three of my favorite things.
05:46.50
Uma Gopaldass
I'm glad. He was like, oh man. But I was already working in junior colleges, which is ah high school here in US. It's the British system in Singapore. um my One of my close friends, aunt, was working for a company called Slumberji. It's a big oil-dealing company.
06:05.96
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
06:06.21
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, it was the competition of Halliburton. They were huge in Singapore and Asia Pacific for all drilling, all services and all that. And we were called in to do filing jobs and we were getting paid like $50 a day. Back in the days, that was huge, right?
06:21.31
loriejones7
Oh yeah.
06:21.66
Uma Gopaldass
So they saw something in me and I continued working and studying and working and studying. and I almost lost my mind. By the age of 20, I graduated, but they paid paid for my education and um in in university. And I took a break, one month break in Thailand, and then I was shipped off to Indonesia to live there for six years.
06:46.88
loriejones7
Wow.
06:47.06
Uma Gopaldass
In between, yeah, I just left home like 20. I was like, oh, in the middle of the boonies, you know, remote places on offshore oil rigs, and it was a huge adventure.
06:54.56
loriejones7
Okay.
06:56.29
Uma Gopaldass
And then I was moving around Vietnam. Laos, Cambodia, we had the whole region. So Australia, Perth, Karatha was an extraordinary amount of knowledge building in a very youthful young age. It comes with its darkness as well, because you're in an oil-filled region with a lot of good and bad.
07:09.60
loriejones7
Uh huh.
07:16.30
Uma Gopaldass
You see a lot of things, you see the human side of it, the the lightness and the darkness. And yeah, it's not going into too much detail. But, you know, 16 years I was in Sullamu Jaya, I came back offshore, worked in Singapore. did a bit of my own startup companies. And then from big oil, I move into big consulting, which was Accenture. and that And that was after I retired myself from Ireland guys. I had 16 years. I couldn't keep moving to Dubai.
07:47.61
Uma Gopaldass
du lao you know I was like in Texas, Sugarland at one point. And then I was like in Nigeria, Dubai, Japalali.
07:54.50
loriejones7
no
07:56.45
Uma Gopaldass
And then I was in Norway, North Sea suddenly. you know Great momentum, but great trips, but you you don't know where you are at any point of time.
08:05.73
loriejones7
You wake up and you're like, what city am I in?
08:06.24
Uma Gopaldass
Like, where?
08:08.17
loriejones7
What country am I in?
08:09.02
Uma Gopaldass
ah Yeah, not not only that, you also have to say keep saying goodbye to relationships you build, to furnitures you pick up, ah to homes you try to build.
08:15.62
loriejones7
Oh, yeah.
08:19.60
Uma Gopaldass
So it was a very touch and go life for a long time.
08:22.62
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
08:23.13
Uma Gopaldass
And and then I decided, no, and after 16 years, you can you can remove yourself from that by retrenching yourself. So I had a Middle East Asia Pacific role for supply chain based in Singapore. I moved the entire headquarters to Jabal Ali, Dubai, where it was 0% tax. So we moved a lot of the procurement on there.
08:45.89
loriejones7
Mmhmm.
08:46.37
Uma Gopaldass
And then and then there was and then I put my my um um my successor there to manage it and retire it myself took my money out so that's another lesson don't ever leave the money on the table like like take your retrenchment money it's not no problem getting retrenched there's a lot of opportunities there And then I was camped out in Indonesia, Bali, like with a lot of this money, I'm going, hmm, what's next? And then Accenture comes knocking and saying, hey, we are building our Asia Pacific practice for consulting. And we think your natural resources background would be amazing. Would you want to join? So I joined them. And that three year ride with them and their bonuses and all that sign on bonuses was fantastic. Great ride. It was like a
09:34.24
Uma Gopaldass
fast-paced MBA program with practical application because it's consulting management consulting.
09:40.63
loriejones7
yeah.
09:41.91
Uma Gopaldass
um And that's when I met Newman, one of my clients, ah which was based in Elko, Nevada, and Colorado. So here I am during the subprime crisis. Goal goes up through the roof, which is inversely correlated, right?
09:58.30
loriejones7
Right.
09:59.15
Uma Gopaldass
So Accenture gets a project a project here in US but they had already retrenched quite a bunch of the Accenture folks in natural resources. So here I am getting shipped from Singapore to Elko, Nevada to do a three-month project. I fall in love with Elko, Nevada. I don't know people know, nobody knows where it is except for I-80 Belt. um
10:20.25
loriejones7
Yeah.
10:21.31
Uma Gopaldass
And so I'm just putting out into the universe that I would love to move here. Lo be whole, the partner of Accenture, three months later after all the project is over, she moves to work for Accenture and calls me up and says, when I'm back in Singapore, she's like, you know how you said you loved Elko, would you like to move there permanently? And I'm like, okay, everything's kind of aligning. I had a chat with my mom, say if you don't want me to go, I won't go. And she's like, ah let's not kid ourselves. You were never meant to be with me.
10:52.62
Uma Gopaldass
You're supposed to be fine having your own journey. and So I picked up and left in 2010, September. And I've been in the US ever since. And Colorado was the headquarters for a new month. So I moved here. Seven years later, all this journey culminated into it. I always had it in my heart that I was going to start my own company.
11:12.76
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
11:15.73
Uma Gopaldass
I just didn't want to do the mainstream consulting, mainstream advisory. So I had a neck for governance. I had a neck for doing the right thing in the most toughest of times and guiding leadership to do the same thing. like Yes, profit. Yes, capital markets are motivated by profits, but it doesn't necessarily need to do so. We might have to flip the equation. um maybe more people, more planet, and the profit would come.
11:37.74
loriejones7
Yeah.
11:41.64
Uma Gopaldass
And so I realized, you know, I'm going to start that kind of company called Leading Lotus. Lead above the bulk of all this mess. You know, from your own soul, you feel like, okay, I'm motivated by what the company is telling me to do, but how do I do it well? And with my moral values in that.
12:00.46
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
12:00.98
Uma Gopaldass
That was a journey that started in 2017. February was a Valentine's Day company. of the long up and down ride, I got into the board game, board governance game in 2020, led by COVID.
12:12.70
loriejones7
Hmm.
12:15.48
Uma Gopaldass
Now you just make those decisions. Yeah, you know what? I need to be in the boardroom. And ever since then, I've been in the boardroom. So just culminated. I always say that my my whole career has been a natural flow of beyond imagination. And I would never, and I could not say no, no matter how uncomfortable, scary, unknown the journey was. I always took the fork that was crazy. It's like, oh, you can go this fork, which is business as usual. You'll make more money, blah, blah, blah. Let's go this way. You may not make more money, but it might be something else. yeah
12:55.21
loriejones7
and So you always were a little bit risky, took the riskier path.
13:00.12
Uma Gopaldass
I'm not ah i'm a risk averse person, but I always never said no. I think that's my, maybe I have FOMO, who the hell knows?
13:08.70
loriejones7
so
13:09.07
Uma Gopaldass
But yeah, it was crazy, I never said no.
13:13.00
loriejones7
So I'm curious, this is just me being a little curious. Like you always hear school in China, like you hear like they go to school for morning till night, every day of the week, every day of the year.
13:21.84
Uma Gopaldass
Yes.
13:26.02
loriejones7
Like so is that really what happens or do you, is it?
13:29.61
Uma Gopaldass
yes Yeah, yeah.
13:32.78
Uma Gopaldass
It still happens in Singapore, Asia, all over the place. Our Asian parents, you know we get it. we They work there the themselves to the ground. So in order for us to have a good life, the minimum we can do is study till we die.
13:43.22
loriejones7
Yeah.
13:48.47
Uma Gopaldass
So it was like that. I would study from morning to evening. And then we had tuition on top of that. And it was like many different tuition, English, and and know second language, math, science.
13:59.17
loriejones7
Yeah.
13:59.31
Uma Gopaldass
And you you lose your life. We didn't actually have sports that much. Sports was like your hobby, but it was a lot of studying, which is where I think I burnt out on reading.
14:05.59
loriejones7
Yeah.
14:08.93
Uma Gopaldass
I would plagiarize and memorize, not plagiarize, but just memorize word for word.
14:13.02
loriejones7
yeah yeah
14:14.27
Uma Gopaldass
I remember historic facts that didn't make sense anymore. so Yeah, so it was, it is, it is. And and you know, I've I'm not saying it's the right strategy either because I have no classmates who have committed suicide because they thought they were disappointing their parents. They were poor background and just couldn't take the steam even though they got A's, all A's.
14:37.13
loriejones7
Yeah.
14:38.07
Uma Gopaldass
They just couldn't do it anymore. So it's a sad situation.
14:39.95
loriejones7
Yeah.
14:41.28
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
14:41.50
loriejones7
Yeah. Yeah. That's That's hard, but you do come out of it with a great deal of knowledge and a short amount of time or a shorter amount of time. So I guess we'll let others debate the politics of it.
14:51.71
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
14:54.12
loriejones7
I was just curious as to the actual mechanics and the other.
14:55.91
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah. I think it's a society because we accept it. And so the whole society encourages it. So we're not really like studying, but there's no nurturing. There's a lot of nurturing in between. So that's I think that's the grit and resilience that we built into it.
15:12.38
loriejones7
Oh, that's good.
15:13.39
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
15:14.71
loriejones7
um The other thing that you said that I thought was really interesting is this idea of being um ethical, yeah still making money, still looking at profit in the bottom line, but also looking at my doing it in a way that the makes the world better or worse. Finance, I got to tell you, finance usually does not come with the best reputation.
15:36.92
Uma Gopaldass
Poor guys, I mean and Yeah
15:37.97
loriejones7
but yeah yeah so but i But I do think that like our practice specifically, we've set up a a really value-driven based practice, and we are doing finance in a way that makes the world better, not worse. And I love that idea of like bringing that to to the boardroom.
15:57.65
Uma Gopaldass
Yes. Yeah. yeah um So I dug black gold oil.
16:03.61
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
16:04.16
Uma Gopaldass
I dug gold gold. And now I'm digging my soul out of the ground.
16:09.84
loriejones7
Mm.
16:10.06
Uma Gopaldass
Because it did feel that way. I spoke about being dark. It's like you're in the environment doing stuff. You're in the community doing stuff. You're in the native land and doing stuff. And all over the world, right? It's not only in the US. I was in the Middle East. I was in Africa. I was in Indonesia. All over the world. South America a bit. ah Today I'm digging green gold, right? So green energy and all that. So I'm giving back because I have accumulated the knowledge and the science behind it.
16:44.40
Uma Gopaldass
I can speak to what is going on sexually and unbiased. ah It's not you against me, I against you. It's not the petroleum against fossil, fossil against whatever.
16:54.68
loriejones7
Yeah.
16:54.91
Uma Gopaldass
There's solutions out here today. even with the fossil fuel companies, petroleum companies, even with Saudi Arabians on the 2030 vision. There are a lot of solutions coming up on the way to reduce dependence on fossil fuel. It's not like it's not happening. I think a lot of the worrisome narrative is the words being thrown out, the words being used. Today, ESG is really a bad word to use. I've described it out for my speeches. um But you know you don't need to label stuff.
17:27.74
Uma Gopaldass
ESG has been going around since the 80s, since I've been around in oil and gas. We just called it differently. We called it HSE, Health Safety Environment. um And so I think we need to get back to a mission, to values versus politicizing, that's a word, the worry about the people and the planet more so than the profit, yeah.
17:37.47
loriejones7
who
17:53.05
loriejones7
Oh, anne yeah.
17:54.94
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah. And I think, like you said, finance can drive it.
17:55.49
loriejones7
Yeah,
17:57.57
Uma Gopaldass
It's not like outside of finance.
18:00.42
loriejones7
yeah yeah. And I think that ah corporations are kind of coming to that that understanding as well, that they are trying to, they they understand that there's a lot of different opinions and especially they this younger generation, they really do focus on having
18:14.12
Uma Gopaldass
Oh, yeah.
18:17.16
loriejones7
Yeah, it's great that you make a whole bunch of stuff, but is it sustainable? You know, like what, what are my kids going to see in this space? And so I think there's a push for that kind of, which is great because our, our companies should be looking at more sustainable business practices all around, not just oil and gas or finance or anything like that.
18:29.32
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
18:38.96
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, traditional, I would call it traditional industries. So there there are a lot of researchers now from Harvard and, you know, if you will, MITs that sustainably driven companies drive more returns on investment than the ones that are chugging along traditionally. um You know, more so than three times more than three times four times ten times more than a traditional industrial company that has not jumped into the bat in America. So those researchers are showing that there's more money if you invest in a company that is doing it right.
19:18.49
loriejones7
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, exactly. I've read some of that research before I go to sleep.
19:22.26
Uma Gopaldass
Nice.
19:22.82
loriejones7
That puts me to sleep, right?
19:24.14
Uma Gopaldass
There you It gives you a good dreams.
19:25.95
loriejones7
No, no, I'm not. I'm lying. I actually. like Yeah. so you go So tell me Uma, what's the best investment you've made in yourself? Is there something you can look back on and say, oh, I'm so glad I did that because it really did change the way my life is gone.
19:42.62
Uma Gopaldass
I think for the younger generation especially, what i you um as a girl growing up, ah there's a lot of noise on how you should look, what you should wear, ah what what is pretty, ah who will who will you attract, and who would you get likes from, and navigate the business world, your career, your personal life. I think the best thing I invested in is in my brain. It's in my wisdom. It's in my energy to be positive.
20:15.85
Uma Gopaldass
It's my energy to get over emotional distress or psychological distress or the past. or you know And that's always some things that hold you back. So imposter syndrome, if you will.
20:25.88
loriejones7
Okay.
20:27.08
Uma Gopaldass
So I would encourage everyone to to just always invest in your soul, your spirituality. Yeah, you can always look good. You can always do your hair, buy more makeup. That always helps, but you know I'm 15 October. I can't reverse the the the time on my on my face. It's going to happen, but I can build more brain cells. I can live healthy, so health is number one. Invest in your health. ah Eat, live, grow naturally, happily, spiritually um in a way that is going to make you feel proud, regardless of how you look, and and that that's my best advice I could give out there.
21:12.32
loriejones7
I like that because we are a lot of times, especially as women focused into looking a certain way or, you know, and I think that a lot of times those more important aspects like um our health or our um our happiness get forgotten because we are not exactly the right size or exactly the right shape or whatever that we think we should be. So I think that's really valuable.
21:38.64
Uma Gopaldass
not awesome Yeah, and I'd like to add that we we have a lot more research in the last three, five years that women up to 40, we are already down in our estrogen levels. We are already in perimenopause to menopause and in ethnic Indian, we menopause quite early, 46 to 49. um That means our hormones are all over the place and our bodies are reacting really crazy. So we're not out of our minds. Well, we're navigating this extra bit of right family juggling businesses, wanting to lead and all of that. So we got to give ourselves some ah slack and be proud of ourselves. Be grateful for what we have and and just enjoy life, I would say.
22:27.26
loriejones7
practice some self care.
22:29.09
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, absolutely.
22:29.89
loriejones7
no So have you ever gotten really bad advice? Like what's the worst advice someone gave you and did you, did you take it or did you not take it? Did you learn from it?
22:41.24
Uma Gopaldass
Bad advice. You know, it's that's really tough. I come from Asia where everybody kind of doesn't give advice, but more like a nod or a disapproving look.
22:55.98
Uma Gopaldass
You know, one of those one of those things. ah But a lot I have to say, I don't remember anything that's negative, but I only remember and be grateful for things. Like every decision I've made, I've had my two big brothers who are the biggest fan of me. I love them. Growing up with two big brothers, They set me up for success because they never looked at me as the girl. They looked at me as their equal and that I could career-wise do anything I want to, lead, start a company. So there was none of that. And so I was already set up for success by just being born into the right mindset or frame. I had a lot of godparents you know growing growing up on the the streets of Singapore. So um I think the diversity of
23:45.15
Uma Gopaldass
of advisors, mentors, godparents, I call them godparents, they're just angels, very god people all around. um Just guiding me naturally was the biggest thing. I think there was not bad advice, but bad imposition of someone's opinion about who I was.
24:05.87
loriejones7
Okay.
24:07.75
Uma Gopaldass
And that's always the glass ceiling, right? that That's what glass ceiling is. Like, you're not good enough. Or your performance rating is is slacking because of this. you know You might be a bit more aggressive than a typical male. for doing the same amount if not a job that's you know above and beyond otherwise you're doing a great job above and beyond but you're coming off too strong. I was like okay I see exactly the same thing in this body in this language and I come off strong so it's not so much ah advice I would say it's like opinions and I never take opinions it I know myself a lot
24:47.19
loriejones7
Uh-huh. Very confident in what and what you are doing. So you kind of go with your gut or your you whatever inside of you is telling you to do that. You work with that. So did you did you temper your aggressiveness?
25:09.94
Uma Gopaldass
It's funny because I didn't do anything except make the company a lot more successful, company successful.
25:15.63
loriejones7
Uh-huh.
25:16.94
Uma Gopaldass
So I had to, one of my god, mentors or godfathers or mentors told me like, you have to ride the game and you have to stay under the radar. That was the advice. while producing great work, better than normal work, above and beyond work.
25:32.19
loriejones7
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
25:38.89
Uma Gopaldass
And even though you're achieving that, lay low. And so I took it because I knew that that was just a short stint.
25:47.38
loriejones7
Uh huh.
25:49.39
Uma Gopaldass
You know, we we talked about the token women, the token, you know, actually Michelle Ashby, who's our contact, she just wrote an article about the tokenism and the women in the roles, and that we shouldn't shy away from being that token women because we should go in and change from inside. And so I think I produced so much value from within that when I left, the herd was on their side, not so much on my side. um And so when you step away, you make sure you're stepping on a higher platform or on a higher rock and a higher self than you were on that side. So um yeah, I didn't temper myself. I just wrote it out until I could turn around and say, I told you so. And it worked most of the time.
26:40.86
loriejones7
That's great. That's great. ah What about looking back through your journey? Is there any situation that you're like, oh, if I know then what I know now, I definitely would have done that differently.
26:56.68
Uma Gopaldass
In my career, it's all okay. There's no regrets at all. It's like, I gotta, yeah. The only thing is, I wish I had known about corporate America culture, which was a culture shock. You know, I've worked with big oil and gas companies.
27:10.57
loriejones7
huh
27:12.78
Uma Gopaldass
Lumberjack was a European company, or it didn't it was incorporated in The Hague, so it didn't really have ah ah a nationality, even though it was French origin. Extension in Singapore was great, you know, I was in Asia Pacific, and I traveled around, and clients were Nestle and Europe, and been all around the world. ah where it should be dangerous or racist or sexist for women.
27:37.22
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
27:39.70
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
27:39.86
Uma Gopaldass
Africa, middle is Saudi, yet I didn't feel any shock and any threats there as I felt in the US.
27:49.97
loriejones7
Really?
27:50.20
Uma Gopaldass
Isn't that surprising? Yeah, yeah.
27:51.48
loriejones7
Yes. Talk to me about that.
27:54.28
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, so corporate America was a whole different, so I think the thing about cultures across the world, and I've lived in a lot of these places, it's direct. It's at you, right? They're like, oh, you're a woman. They're like, okay, see what I can do. And then they pipe down, they go, okay, you yeah, okay, you're good, right? So you can nail it. I think with the American context of corporate America, and and I'm gonna get a lot of pushback from this, is you don't know you're in a game. You're doing the work, you're doing the work, and then you're like, what is going on? Why can't I get that gig? Why can't I get the popularity? Why can't I get fame? Do I have to have something in the background that says I'm an Ivy League or i had it I'm a trust fund baby or i have something? My social background and where I came from, I think I was a mystery to a lot of people in the companies I worked in US for.
28:49.65
Uma Gopaldass
It's like they don't know you, so they are afraid to know you and invest in you.
28:54.08
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
28:56.60
Uma Gopaldass
So you've got to invest in yourself. Whereas whereas in Asia and Europe, um when you talk to a few people, ah talk to to leaders, they like you, they like you. and You do good work, they like you. even better, and they'll give you the roles. They'll be like, you're my prodigy, go do this. And that's how I ended up in oil and gas in the first place. They threw me in the middle of the the sea at the age of 20 as the operations director of Indonesia, and then as a technical advisor, and then as a management consultant, and then I was a VP in Indonesia at the age of 25. I had 100 over people working for me. And I couldn't say no. I was like, oh my God, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, go figure it out.
29:38.75
Uma Gopaldass
That's not the game that you play in US. And I might be biased because it's only my opinion and maybe it's what I felt.
29:47.99
loriejones7
Right.
29:48.51
Uma Gopaldass
But it's a culture shock for me. It was a culture shock.
29:51.03
loriejones7
Uh-huh.
29:51.29
Uma Gopaldass
I still don't know how you navigate corporate lifestyle as a female, as a diverse female, as a young diverse female.
29:55.16
loriejones7
Uh-huh.
30:02.74
Uma Gopaldass
ah But I am now in a place where being in the boardroom has given me so much perspective on how to support the management teams, the executive teams, what they're going through, have empathy for them. So it's really shifted for me being in the boardrooms.
30:23.06
loriejones7
And maybe help out with some of the the practices that are causing the situations that you found when you were in corporate America.
30:31.46
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, and a lot of the companies I sit in the boardroom of are already set up for success in that way. So the the CEOs are amazing. They believe in diversity. They believe in in and the female power, the feminine power, the masculine power, ah because they are in a very difficult industry to do energy transition, to do impact investment. These are not easy things that we're trying to do. So the CEOs ceos ah and the management themselves have a culture of breaking traditions and going towards a different progress in in in the world. So I think that's what what's different for me is I'm now pursuing to be in industries that are difficult to move.
31:19.66
Uma Gopaldass
ah But at the same time, the rewards are so, so awesome. In fact, it's more beneficial than monetary growth, right? And so I think i've I've learned that it's helping me deal with the corporate culture for the other generation.
31:28.91
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
31:38.48
loriejones7
Yeah.
31:39.13
Uma Gopaldass
And it's also breaking your right. I'm also breaking those corporate um mindsets of this is how these roles should be set. And this is how you should be promoted.
31:46.84
loriejones7
and
31:48.09
Uma Gopaldass
And these are the things you have to do to get promoted and seen. and thatda da
31:52.93
loriejones7
Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Ashley actually said that as we were chatting kind of before our interview is just, she said, you know, um you can make real change in the boardrooms of these companies, you can make real change for employees for, you know, make real change in lives and real change for women going through these situations. So maybe they don't deal with the same situation that you did.
32:19.51
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, absolutely. She nailed it. I love what Ashley said. i wish i was listening to I'm going to listen to that podcast now.
32:28.80
loriejones7
What about now, yeah this is so interesting to me that at 20 years old, they dropped you off in the middle of an oil field somewhere. I just can't even imagine.
32:36.94
Uma Gopaldass
i started yeah I started at 16 though.
32:41.78
loriejones7
Oh my goodness gracious. So what would you go back and tell that 20 year old to you? Is there some advice you would give her?
32:49.82
Uma Gopaldass
My twinning year old? Oh wow, I would... ah There is one thing if if I could go back and tell her it would be to um never second guess who you are. Never worry about feeling like an imposter. like you've got it. You have the ability to be in any room, in any table. I've been told today by really powerful people that I belong in the board of Citibank, for example, and I'm like, okay, well, are they moving something in terms of impact?
33:31.64
Uma Gopaldass
you know so
33:31.57
loriejones7
but but
33:33.27
Uma Gopaldass
you know And back in the data, you would second-guess my my value. So, no, don't don't you you are valuable.
33:42.59
loriejones7
Is there a trick or a tactic or something you can do to help yourself realize that? Because, you can you know, like, I am, you know, those are affirmations, you look in the mirror, I am good.
33:51.95
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
33:52.42
loriejones7
I am wonderful. I am beautiful. Like, they only go so far sometimes when you're getting messages from outside telling you. um
33:59.97
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, exactly. ah yeah There's a lot of neuroscience to this now on how you manifest stuff. I feel like I've manifested a lot of the ah a lot of these things, like to live in Elko and all in the wild, wild west, have all of that rugged lifestyle. And you know I would say neuroscience says you got a belief. You got a trust in belief.
34:21.64
loriejones7
Hmm.
34:23.47
Uma Gopaldass
And every day, you know yes there are a lot of things you can do. Gratitude, show gratitude, write a gratitude journal, ah meet people authentically. And I used to meet people not liking people very much. I don't know. I'm not much of a people person. Maybe I'm an introvert. Not many people know that I'm introvert because I'm out there a lot. um But I think today I genuinely am interested in getting to know people so that
34:55.91
Uma Gopaldass
I'm not worried about getting hurt by people, right? we We go through a lot of our lives getting hurt and then putting ourselves caged up in our shell, building a wall around our hearts personally and professionally. I think i would I would really say make sure you believe in yourself no matter what anyone says.
35:10.20
loriejones7
here
35:16.82
loriejones7
Mm-hmm.
35:17.82
Uma Gopaldass
No one else can break you down like you do if you end up building the negative stuff, yeah.
35:19.51
loriejones7
Oh, yeah.
35:23.89
loriejones7
Yeah. I like that. I like that thought too, just like, um, you know, nobody else can, no one else can make you feel as bad as you can make yourself feel. So you've got to believe and, and using those tactics to kind of manifest your future, believing in yourself, maybe just as simple as looking in the mirror and saying you are kind, you're wonderful, you're beautiful.
35:40.78
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
35:45.07
Uma Gopaldass
Well, the other thing is having people who really genuinely love you for who you are and being there to support you when you have those days where you're like, am I? What am I doing here? You know, when you're on the shaky ground, you have all the support network, girlfriends, you know, relatives, mom and dad, you know, brothers, sisters, whoever, mentors, teachers, coaches.
35:56.72
loriejones7
Yeah.
36:08.64
Uma Gopaldass
I had a lot of them. ah And their belief in me was astounding. So there was no room for failure because their belief was like, you can never fail in our eyes. Okay.
36:20.59
loriejones7
I love that.
36:21.77
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
36:21.76
loriejones7
My, my daughter does a little bit of that for me. She'd come in and sit down on my bed.
36:25.49
Uma Gopaldass
Right.
36:25.89
loriejones7
She's only 18, 19 years old. And she's like, you are really cool, mom.
36:27.81
Uma Gopaldass
Oh my god.
36:29.66
loriejones7
Wow. What you're doing is really neat. so Yeah.
36:32.37
Uma Gopaldass
I want to adopt her. like Please share your daughter. and
36:35.99
loriejones7
Yeah.
36:38.45
loriejones7
So what about, what scared you the most when you started on your journey Uma? Was there anything that you were like, and are you still scared of that? Or did you, did you figure out how to handle it?
36:51.65
Uma Gopaldass
ah the The fear of failure. I don't know what that means. I mean, like what is failure, right?
36:56.88
loriejones7
Yeah.
36:57.21
Uma Gopaldass
ah So as women, we are perfectionists. We want to make sure we whatever um job or task we are given, roles we are given, we ace it and ace it till we we we run ourselves to the ground. We all work ourselves. and um I mean, that's you know I'm generalizing, but ah we do tend to do a lot more than we are given to do.
37:16.41
loriejones7
Yeah.
37:20.79
Uma Gopaldass
I think that the fear of failure still always sits at the back, like even the nested in the boardrooms of these companies, they're super awesome companies. I want them to succeed. It's not so much me, I'm in the background. So I'm doing everything in my power to empower these companies, the CEOs, the management, their teams. and get them everything that they need to make sure they they accomplish their missions, their goals, and all that stuff. And that's that's something I've learned to navigate, is when I feel like I'm not doing enough, I try to amplify it by saying more, doing more. Today I'm like, no, I'm going to do more quality,
38:10.20
Uma Gopaldass
and the right amount of guidance and wisdom, and I call it the the CEO whisperer, then overdo things just so off out of my fear. Because sometimes you don't have to say a lot to make things better.
38:26.93
loriejones7
That's really insightful because because I do find myself, you know, whenever I'm in a transition, um especially like going from doing the things to managing the things, I always feel like, but I'm not doing things. I need to follow up my day. I need to do more things than I need to find something else to do.
38:42.06
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
38:43.76
loriejones7
And I think that that it that it it is more important to kind of look and say, am I doing the right things? and you know in the right way at the right time rather than just more.
38:56.69
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you you don't really have to like, some of us in the bottom want to have to say a lot of things because we want to feel like we are producing some value. you know And in fact, dude though, was it so much that one of my CEO actually called me up and said, I need you to speak up more because you have such interesting, wise you know words whenever you speak. And I'm like, well, I just thought that everybody else nailed it. All the dudes nailed it. So there was nothing additional I needed to stay on top of that.
39:30.32
Uma Gopaldass
So he was more worried for me than I was.
39:33.80
loriejones7
What about I can, I cannot imagine that this answer is no, but did you face any unique challenges because you were a woman and, and did you, how did you navigate those?
39:34.92
Uma Gopaldass
That was super awesome.
39:47.44
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, that's all you face is challenges when you're a woman, right? So I think, again, I was lucky being born in Asia. And during the 1980s to 90s, there was a talent drain in oil and gas. So a lot of women were being recruited into oil and gas. So I was lucky during that time um to be on board offshore oil field. um I think the biggest challenge I had was navigating ah my own personal biases about a female role.
40:31.06
Uma Gopaldass
potentially in C-suite, in a boardroom, like, can it be done? Because I never grow up with that. We still don't grow up with that. We only have 20-30% of women globally on boardrooms, and Fortune 500, Fortune 50, good luck with that.
40:46.53
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
40:46.89
Uma Gopaldass
um So even though I grew up in societies where there was already female presidents all over the world, right? I mean, Pakistan already had it, you know, prime ministers were female, India already had them. So it wasn't like Margaret Thatcher. So it wasn't like we didn't have good female leadership roles.
41:02.86
loriejones7
Yeah.
41:06.83
Uma Gopaldass
we We knew that we could become anything we want. But there was a personal biases that you end up believing in when you get the message through some sort of a performance process that you're not good enough. So we're not going to give you the rating when all they're doing is putting you in a band so they can afford the budget within the finance to give performance bonuses. So I think that was the only big challenge. And the other challenge I faced as a female was that we don't really like to blow our own put our own horns.
41:34.93
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
41:39.13
Uma Gopaldass
And that that was a big that's a challenge which keeps you behind, I think.
41:43.11
loriejones7
Mm hmm.
41:46.72
Uma Gopaldass
And so that I had to navigate that. And and I have to say, like only in the last three years, I started feeling comfortable about putting you know LinkedIn like I went to an event. And I put my picture out there. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm so into myself. I feel like an egomaniac. And I still have to not worry about those things and say, I got to do it.
42:02.39
loriejones7
ah
42:05.52
Uma Gopaldass
I got to do it. I got to be out there.
42:07.70
loriejones7
ah
42:08.21
Uma Gopaldass
ah So, you you know, we got to toot our own horns. We got to ah praise other women. The other thing I think we don't praise other women enough. Like now I do that constantly on LinkedIn. I like my my female um business ladies and powerful ladies stuff and articles. They're saying the right stuff. They're saying really valuable stuff.
42:28.20
loriejones7
Thank
42:28.95
Uma Gopaldass
So I write on top. You got to really be there and support other women, I think.
42:33.97
loriejones7
you. Yeah, I think that's, that's so interesting. I have a, one of of my team members and she said, um, I was talking to her not long ago doing coaching and she said, um, she said, I used to, she said, I would have just like taken whatever was offered and been grateful for it, you know, like two or three years ago.
42:51.83
Uma Gopaldass
Mm.
42:53.43
loriejones7
She's like, but, but now I feel like, like I'm worth something and like I deserve it.
42:59.07
Uma Gopaldass
Wow.
42:59.95
loriejones7
And I was like, yes, you are.
43:01.97
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
43:03.07
loriejones7
ah but But I think that that sense of like, you know, tooting your own horn, saying that, you know, demonstrating and that you are worth something, I think that helps other ah women to see, you know what?
43:16.01
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
43:16.01
loriejones7
It's not bragging. It's just saying that we are worth. Look at what we're worth.
43:21.49
Uma Gopaldass
I love that. Yeah, we are worth it. We're not, we're the opposite of not good enough. We're worth every penny.
43:28.28
loriejones7
Yeah.
43:29.48
Uma Gopaldass
We're worth every energy. And we deserve the equal pay, or if not more. That wasn't probably more.
43:39.92
Uma Gopaldass
um
43:40.26
loriejones7
so
43:40.76
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
43:42.14
loriejones7
And that does, it kind of empowers other women to say, hey, maybe I'm worth something too. Yeah, you are.
43:49.37
Uma Gopaldass
And I take my hats off to to women who raised children, run businesses, run companies, leadership, navigate the their career progression, getting promoted. i took I copped out. I didn't want kids, so it was easier easier for me, I would say. um And so I never decided to have the family route and all that. So it's easier for me to climb the ladder easily without having to to worry about raising kids. But I take my hats off because, you know, for me, I don't know how you do that.
44:22.42
Uma Gopaldass
and How do you do that? And still raise?
44:25.51
loriejones7
yeah they d
44:27.27
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah.
44:28.36
loriejones7
I just, ah I just spoke with someone and she's like, I can't remember which who it was, but she was like, just an exhaustion. That was like they're her thing. She's like, it was just so exhausting. She's like, I was so exhausted. I couldn't, you know, think or do and and ah You've you've all been there and I think it doesn't matter really What your journey is whether you have kids a lot of times you've got parents You're taking care of a lot of times like no one knows what you're what your life looks like except for you um And and I think we all face those challenges.
44:53.77
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah. Yeah.
45:01.89
loriejones7
It doesn't matter, you know What if you have fur babies sometimes you're facing
45:07.26
Uma Gopaldass
Oh god, yeah.
45:07.95
loriejones7
went
45:08.49
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah. Yeah, well, my parents is one of the things, right? So my mom, ah so I went home to Singapore for three months last December, too much. Being in the boardroom helps. Quadrally meeting sometimes online. um And you know supported her health journey to to be more ah healthy and got her cataract surgery. So you know I feel like I'm still raising kids, just <unk> just the reverse so but he was parenting as they grow older.
45:36.28
loriejones7
Yeah.
45:37.60
Uma Gopaldass
uh and i have 16 odd god children and they're all grown up so thank god my friends didn't like me yeah my friends were like you're not getting off the hook
45:41.07
loriejones7
Oh well. Yeah, I don't even know why you said you don't have kids. That's a lot. yeah I couldn't do 15.
45:53.86
loriejones7
So, Uma, what is the thing you are most proud of?
45:58.39
Uma Gopaldass
I think I'm most proud of making my mom proud. that's At the end of the day, if I had to die tomorrow, the question would be, is she proud? Was her energy, her time, her effort, I mean, she had to work three jobs just to put us through school, three kids. ah My dad wasn't you know wasn't the the kind of He was a nice guy, but he was also an alcoholic. So it was such a background that you know she had to be the main breadwinner at some points. And he was a big breadwinner at some points. It was confusing back in the days it's growing poor. um I had it easy by the time I was born, we were middle class, but my brothers did go through kind of a
46:39.66
Uma Gopaldass
um you know a bit more poorer background, but we all came out really resilient.
46:44.51
loriejones7
Thank
46:46.47
Uma Gopaldass
We all became business owners and and leaders of on our own, on our own achievements with a lot of support from society and folks.
46:55.07
loriejones7
you.
46:57.56
Uma Gopaldass
And so I think the thing that I'm most proud of is giving back, be giving back to those people. Now, my godparents, I go back and visit them and and and nurture them. give them back and I'm proud of them how they've they've come up too. So yeah, I have nothing else to be proud of except that. And I feel like there's more things I can do obviously to to save the planet, and save the people, whatever needs saving. Everything I do feels to like for others than for myself.
47:28.13
Uma Gopaldass
I live a very simple life. I travel a lot, but the biggest thing that I'm proud of is taking my mom to her her vacation ah by the beach, where she's never seen something, ah going for vacation with my brothers and and their families. So that's the end of the day. And I and i love and shout out to my best friend, Delphina. She's an amazing lady, gave birth to three of my my sweetest godkids. Yeah, I'm proud of all of that.
47:58.07
loriejones7
I love that as a mom, it made me tear up just a little bit when you said you're most proud of making your mom proud.
48:02.48
Uma Gopaldass
Aww.
48:04.55
loriejones7
That is just gets my heart.
48:08.55
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, I'm surprisingly un-tiery because I think I'm shutting down my emotions.
48:08.49
loriejones7
That's really sweet.
48:12.89
Uma Gopaldass
But yeah, I can end up crying if I talk too much about my mom and my brothers. Time to be professional, yeah.
48:20.38
loriejones7
I love that.
48:21.66
Uma Gopaldass
But yeah as it's it's yeah, it's got its moments where I thought, oh my god, if I could give up my life and and make her successful, uh give her what we she didn't get like school and education in the 1940s and hours during the world war Japan occupied it we lost everything you know my dad was an orphan and and in the war lost his mom and he was three and was you know and the only picture i have of my grandparents is of him at the three years old holding a white piece of cloth of his mom she's like lying
48:59.67
Uma Gopaldass
ah motionless, she's dead, in a black and white form at the cemetery where they dumped the body and ran. So I don't even know where they are at.
49:07.97
loriejones7
Oh, wow.
49:08.94
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah. um So to pay homage to the ancestors, many generations of hardship. Yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, like for that, I mean, like what you just said, I know you're teary-eyed. I'm sure you're thinking of about your mom too.
49:25.11
loriejones7
My mom's amazing too. I guess moms just are amazing in general.
49:29.44
Uma Gopaldass
ah That's what your daughter's gonna do. That's what your daughter's gonna do. Yeah.
49:32.36
loriejones7
um Let's hope so.
49:34.87
Uma Gopaldass
yeah
49:35.99
loriejones7
Any advice for a young woman who's just starting down this path that you've already been down and have been so successful at? Is there anything you would tell her
49:45.53
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, it's never too late to think big, think far, invest in causes and certification to be a leader. Even if you're just starting off in an admin role, role, just starting off your career, just think of yourself as a powerhouse of value. There's powerful people and there's valuable people, so make sure you meet those two in in in between. How are you producing value? Anything that you do has to be valuable to society, to your loved ones, to nature. ah Think along those terms so you're not killing yourself making money for the sake of making money.
50:27.11
loriejones7
Oh yeah. That, I love that thought. Just that, you know, like I i always put it, i I don't put it as eloquently as you. I talk about how you can't spend your whole life doing something that you hate, but that's the same thing. Like you have to believe in what you're doing.
50:41.37
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, exactly.
50:43.76
loriejones7
You have to think about how that's going to affect you and your family and your kids and other people's kids and other people's families. I love that Uma.
50:51.39
Uma Gopaldass
Oh, you're welcome.
50:51.47
loriejones7
Thank you.
50:52.38
Uma Gopaldass
Thank you. You make me say it's good things.
50:55.99
loriejones7
ah
50:56.97
Uma Gopaldass
I love this podcast.
51:00.16
loriejones7
Well, thank you so much for spending some time and just sharing your journey and everything that you've learned. I really have appreciated it. Is there, if I've got a listener that wants to kind of get in touch with you and ask you questions, how does she go about reaching out?
51:14.59
Uma Gopaldass
Yeah, I'm always available on LinkedIn. So it's Uma Devi Gopal Das CDI.D. i dot d um I have my email Uma at leadinglotus.com. So you can call me from that or email me um and we can connect from that.
51:32.55
loriejones7
Well, I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I appreciate it.
51:36.65
Uma Gopaldass
ah Thank you so much for doing this and being this awesome mom and a fear fearless female podcast leader. Thank you.