Today, our host Lorie Jones sits down with dynamic sales trainer and business consultant Liz Wendling for a candid conversation to explore the power of authenticity in the sales world, particularly for women navigating traditionally male-dominated industries. Liz shares her unconventional journey from a Manhattan advertising agency to top sales producer, all while challenging the old-school, cookie-cutter methods she encountered along the way.
You’ll hear how Liz learned to trust her gut, break industry norms, and create her own successful approach to selling—one that centers on being genuinely herself. Through this engaging discussion, you’ll gain practical wisdom for trusting intuition, investing in personal growth, and boldly defining your version of success.
Whether you’re just beginning your career or seeking inspiration to lead more authentically, this episode offers empowering insights, real-life stories, and actionable advice on forging a fearless path—your way.
Show Highlights:
- Straight line vs. circle/zigzag approaches in life and business. [03:34]
- The power of Liz Wendling’s non-salesy selling. [06:39]
- Building people and results using interpersonal kindness. [10:26]
- What do head-driven vs. gut-driven decisions signal? [13:43]
- Why the advice “Don’t sell, just serve” is wrong. [18:49]
- Exit misaligned spaces by their expiration dates to start fresh. [22:56]
- The path to freedom with a congruent work–life identity. [27:34]
- How to redefine rejection pain and turn it into sales growth. [33:53]
- Lessons on being a female leader in male-centric sales. [39:02]
- Authentic sales strategies and messaging techniques. [40:49]
- Sales inevitability and learnability advice for young women. [46:13]
Connect with Liz Wendling at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizwendling/ on LinkedIn.
To get in touch with Liz or explore her work, go to https://www.lizwendling.com/, where you can also find her books Sell Without Losing Your Soul and The Heart of Authentic Selling.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.44
Lorie Jones
Good morning, fearless females. Thank you so much for joining us today. Today we have Liz Windling. I said that wrong, didn’t I? Windling.
00:09.32
Liz Wendling
no No, Wendling, it’s okay.
00:11.51
Lorie Jones
Okay, that’s all right. I’m going to start again.
00:12.70
Liz Wendling
yeah Go right ahead.
00:16.39
Lorie Jones
Good morning, fearless females. Thank you for joining us today. Today we have Liz Windling. She is a sales trainer and business consultant for her own business. And I’m so excited to have this conversation with you. Liz has so much energy. I just love the energy you bring. So I am so excited to have this conversation with you today.
00:35.11
Liz Wendling
Same here, Lori.
00:36.64
Lorie Jones
So my first question is always, i love books, love reading. What is your favorite?
00:42.31
Liz Wendling
Well, I am the same. I have thousands of books on my Kindle, but there is one that I don’t even need one second to think about the answer to this one. And it’s called Straight Line Leadership.
00:55.83
Liz Wendling
The name of the author is Dushan Jasek or something like that. Every time I see it, I can’t pronounce it, but it’s Straight Line Leadership. And it is the most direct book I’ve ever read.
01:05.18
Lorie Jones
Thank
01:10.71
Liz Wendling
It’s uncomfortable and it really does poke people at the core of how they run their life and their business. And the core idea is that most people spend a lot of time going in circles or zigzagging their life and overthinking and adding drama and straight line leadership ah believes in like cutting through all that BS and the noise.
01:36.05
Liz Wendling
And when he describes what a straight line leader is, and it means it could be straight line mother, straight line, spouse, it doesn’t matter, is when you are in a circle and you just keep chasing your tail and doing the same thing over and over, once you straighten that circle out with certain activities and behaviors, you become a straight line leader.
01:58.87
Liz Wendling
Or if you’re a zigzag person, you do one thing, then you stop, and then you do something else. Once you straighten the zigzag out, you become a straight line leader. and it And it has a lot of distinctions and a lot of ways to help clarify and undo the circle and the zigzag so that when you are leading, selling, working, marketing, networking, whatever it is, they’re you’re on that straight line and you have a lot of clarity and less fluff.
02:28.70
Lorie Jones
I love that. I love that idea. It’s like, um I actually listened to another woman who’s podcast and she says, no fluff. There’s like no fluff. It’s all about productivity.
02:38.96
Lorie Jones
And she’s like, I’m giving you the things that you need to do. I’m not giving you the fluff. Cause as women, don’t we do that? Don’t we like, like we try and do everything. We try and bring everything in and we try and do all the things.
02:50.81
Lorie Jones
And I love that idea of like a straight line.
02:51.26
Liz Wendling
Yes.
02:53.69
Lorie Jones
I’m, I’m putting that on my book list, but my book
02:55.37
Liz Wendling
Good. And the thing, Lori, though, is people think they’re supposed to do more because that’s what the world is screaming. You need to do this and you need to get out more and you need to do this.
03:07.03
Liz Wendling
No, you don’t. You just need to do what’s right for you. But you first have to spend some time taking a look at what do I want to do? What do I like to do? What am I good at? What could I hire out?
03:18.24
Liz Wendling
What do I never want to do again? Too many people are telling people that they have to do it one way. And that is the biggest misconception in business right now. That’s dangerous.
03:28.91
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love it. i love it i’m putting it I’m putting it at the top of my stack. So it’s the next one because the stack is that big.
03:34.32
Liz Wendling
o
03:36.10
Lorie Jones
So I love that. Thank you for that, Liz.
03:38.17
Liz Wendling
You’re welcome.
03:39.18
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about your journey. Like, where did you get started? Did you like, how did you get where you’re at today? How did it, what do you do? Tell me just a little bit about you.
03:49.54
Liz Wendling
Well, my sales journey started, i would say, about 40 years ago. I was living and working in Manhattan. I was working at an advertising agency, and I took a part-time job selling fitness memberships in this beautiful, spectacular Manhattan, midtown Manhattan area.
04:09.36
Liz Wendling
ah fitness center. It was gorgeous. So i I couldn’t afford the membership because back then, 40 years ago, I remember the membership being $849 year, which today is i don’t know, four men.
04:18.95
Lorie Jones
Oh.
04:21.14
Liz Wendling
five thousand
04:22.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
04:22.57
Liz Wendling
and
04:22.53
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
04:23.39
Liz Wendling
so i went to sales school they it was myself and four men and Even back then, something intuitively was telling me the way that sales was done way back then just didn’t feel right in my body. And I started listening to my body, but not listening to the trainer, listening to what felt good for me and dismissing what they would say.
04:48.77
Liz Wendling
And I… I went out on my own and I’m like, I’m not going to say that. I’m going to say it this way or I’m not going to treat someone like that. I’m going to do it this way. So I was secretly doing the opposite and I wound up becoming the top producer four months in a row.
05:05.00
Liz Wendling
And everyone kept saying, oh, it’s because you’re a woman. Oh, it’s because you have a better schedule. And I didn’t have the heart to tell people, no, it’s because you sound like a salesperson and I don’t.
05:16.69
Liz Wendling
And eventually I came clean to my boss and in a very, he was from Brooklyn and in a very not so nice way with a couple of curse words in there, he said, get your blank and get the hell out of here.
05:29.34
Liz Wendling
I didn’t hire you to do it your way, even though you’re a top seller. I didn’t hire you to tell sell it your way. It’s our way and you’re out of here. And that’s when I
05:39.28
Lorie Jones
no
05:40.57
Liz Wendling
I was devastated because I really liked the position, but I realized, wow, there’s something intuitive in me that I really need to listen more of. And I didn’t, it didn’t hit me that quickly. It wasn’t like suddenly I was listening to my intuition, but I, something was starting to stir in me. And that was the beginning of a, probably just till this morning, 40 year journey on, on me and what I want and what, what,
06:07.85
Liz Wendling
talks to me, my intuition, the way it talks to me, I really do listen now.
06:12.82
Lorie Jones
hmm. That’s so interesting. How old were you when you when you started this journey? Like, how old were you?
06:17.92
Liz Wendling
I was a youngin’. I was, i would say, first sales job in my 20s. Yeah.
06:24.32
Lorie Jones
Uh huh. So that’s that’s that takes a lot of gumption at that age to to like have enough confidence in yourself to say your way doesn’t work for me.
06:25.17
Liz Wendling
Yeah.
06:36.15
Liz Wendling
And I didn’t even know what I was doing at the time. i was just doing it because it didn’t feel right. and And my dad would say, and because you like to do the opposite of everyone else. He goes, you don’t listen to anybody. You like to do things on your own. And you but he’s right, because I still act that way. When everybody else is zigging, I go in the opposite direction because following the masses doesn’t mean anything. It just means it’s popular. It doesn’t mean it works.
07:03.84
Lorie Jones
yeah Yeah, that’s so interesting. I have a daughter that um actually doesn’t, ah she is she’s so strong-willed and she does not like to be told what to do, which is my fault, so I get it.
07:15.26
Lorie Jones
So maybe I’m going to have her go into sales to tell her that’s worth it.
07:20.27
Liz Wendling
And you know what? We’re all in sales. If we have a business, we’ve got to sell ourselves. So it’s not it’s not unique, men and women. We have to do it. If you want to make a living, there has to be some form of a sales conversation that happens.
07:33.50
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
07:34.08
Liz Wendling
There just has to be.
07:34.22
Lorie Jones
Yeah. So tell me how you got though, from that early part to what you’re doing now.
07:40.85
Liz Wendling
Well, I started to see a thread, even everything that I was doing when I was working at this advertising agency. The thread was human beings.
07:52.00
Liz Wendling
I was gonna work with human beings for the rest of my life. And how could I engage with them and like them and have them like me and have it be more of a collaborative type thing, not please like me.
08:06.69
Liz Wendling
It’s I’m being who I am and I want you to be who you are so we can be honest with each other and have a real relationship or not.
08:16.14
Lorie Jones
Is it?
08:16.22
Liz Wendling
And i I started diving headfirst into, I’ll call it self-help or psychology and just learning more about me first and human behavior.
08:27.52
Liz Wendling
And those two things woven together. absolutely helps me in my business right now because i know I know how to get the best out of people. I know how to ask the right questions. I’ll notice something in someone that they haven’t seen yet.
08:41.91
Liz Wendling
And I’ll say, hey, Mary, you know what? You have a real knack to do A, B, and C. and And they just are so happy when somebody else sees that gift they know they have, they don’t know how to use it in the way that would benefit them.
08:56.95
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
08:57.29
Liz Wendling
And that’s where, how I learned how to do that for myself, that when someone would say to me, oh my gosh, you’re so good at X. And At first I needed that outside validation because I wasn’t able to get there myself. And then I finally realized I’m not looking outside for the validation anymore. I need to go inward.
09:17.16
Liz Wendling
And that’s what I teach my clients, how to find that in themselves so they can assess themselves and do what’s right in their business. Not going outside to like we started with all the gurus out there telling them, you have to do it this way. I’m right, you’re wrong.
09:32.65
Lorie Jones
So did you did you immediately start your business at at that 25, really young did
09:40.44
Liz Wendling
ah Lord, no, I went another, oh my gosh, probably 15, 16 years working for other people.
09:49.04
Lorie Jones
and
09:49.26
Liz Wendling
And Lori, I was not a good employee because just like I said, they they would say, we have to do it this way, or this is how you do it. I would be doing it the opposite.
09:59.95
Liz Wendling
So I was a terrible employee. I got fired from so many jobs because of that. But it was, have this little knack of seeing things on that straight line.
10:11.30
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh.
10:11.54
Liz Wendling
I can look at a process or look at someone’s business and go, um my God, I already see the issue. I could see it without having to spend hours or weeks or years somewhere. I could see it intuitively first and then I can act on it very quickly. So no, I spent about 16 years getting fired, looking at new jobs. They were all sales jobs.
10:34.50
Lorie Jones
ah huh
10:34.65
Liz Wendling
And I learned something from each one. Even though I got fired, I learned something about me. and business in the process.
10:42.34
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s so great. So tell me, is there an investment along this journey that an investment that you’ve made in yourself that maybe was like, you’re like, oh, my goodness, I just wouldn’t be where I’m at today without that?
10:57.16
Liz Wendling
I’m sensing a theme in my answers here because I’m going to go back to trusting my gut and understanding the how intuition can talk to us if we’re willing to hear it and then act on it.
11:12.71
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
11:12.87
Liz Wendling
So I learned, the and I did a lot of coaching myself, so I had a lot of people helping me, so it was investment in coaching.
11:12.85
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
11:21.50
Liz Wendling
um But I learned the difference between, and this is probably the biggest thing, it’s hard to teach somebody this, but I learned the difference between hearing something in my head of talking myself into something or out of something or actually feeling it in my gut. We’ve all had that gut feeling where we don’t,
11:42.29
Liz Wendling
maybe act on it. And we say, oh, I knew it.
11:43.67
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
11:44.98
Liz Wendling
I knew. felt it. I shouldn’t have done that. So what I realized is my head talks in full sentences, meaning it’ll say things like, oh, you don’t want to go there. It’s too far. You have to deal with parking.
11:58.33
Liz Wendling
That’s when I know my head is making the decision.
12:00.94
Lorie Jones
yeah
12:01.32
Liz Wendling
Now my gut and my intuition talks in a few words. It’ll say things like, oh, heck yes. Go for it. That’s it. Leave now. It’s It’s quick and it’s short and that’s how I know that it’s not this telling me what to do.
12:16.67
Liz Wendling
it’s It’s that I know what to do. I don’t need my head to tell me.
12:19.38
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh.
12:20.76
Liz Wendling
And I can hear myself even till today saying things like, oh, I don’t know, it’s kind of late. I’ll probably hit traffic. Then I know my head’s doing the talking and then I say, all right, do you really want to go?
12:32.46
Liz Wendling
Feel it. And if it doesn’t feel right, I say no. oh
12:35.99
Lorie Jones
That’s so interesting. Yeah. I love that. And it you you mentioned something earlier where you said that that you’ve had a lot of coaching and that they saw things inside of you that that they kind of brought out and helped that helped you to to be more successful. is that Did they teach you how to listen to that that feeling inside of yourself? and Or how did that work? How did you learn?
13:01.44
Liz Wendling
That’s a good question. i remember the first time somebody said to me, was her exact words. She said, oh, that’s your head talking. And I went, what it but do you, i didn’t even know what that meant.
13:13.35
Liz Wendling
Like, yeah, that was my head. It came out of my mouth. And she goes, now I want you to talk from your stomach, your heart, your energy, your intuition.
13:16.70
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
13:22.26
Liz Wendling
What do you want to do? And I just remember, you know, if you could be thrown back, like a blast back. And I went, Oh, my gosh, I felt the difference there.
13:33.04
Liz Wendling
And then that’s when I started using that in my business. I would hear someone say, oh, you need to build your business this way or or if you’re going to follow up, do it this way. And I would go, oh, that doesn’t feel right.
13:46.86
Liz Wendling
And then I. Just go into the that place where, okay, what does feel right? How do I want to be talked to? How would I like someone to get back to me or follow up with me or call me on the phone?
13:57.62
Liz Wendling
Do I want to hear the old school sales scripts that sound like, hey, I’m just following up, touching base, reaching out, checking in?
13:58.10
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
14:05.11
Liz Wendling
Or do i want do I want to be able to teach other people and hear it for myself a way that connects me, not disconnects me?
14:13.33
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I like that idea because i you do have that feeling sometimes where you’re just like, that feels right for me. Like I’ve i’ve been going through a bunch of um networking and and working through networking.
14:27.86
Lorie Jones
And there are some that feel so authentic and so me, and I love it and I’ll do it.
14:28.33
Liz Wendling
yeah
14:33.53
Lorie Jones
And there’s others that I’m like, that’s scary. and I don’t… so Like I have to force myself to go to whatever event or whatever it is that that is.
14:42.32
Liz Wendling
Yeah.
14:42.50
Lorie Jones
and I’m learning the difference between what feels good for me and what, what people tell me should work or I should do.
14:53.20
Liz Wendling
I agree.
14:53.40
Lorie Jones
and
14:54.25
Liz Wendling
Give yourself a big pat on the back and a hug for even knowing that your body’s telling you that.
14:54.44
Lorie Jones
and
15:00.36
Liz Wendling
You already know, and yet what we all do, we get dressed, we get ready, we drive across town, and we know we shouldn’t have been there, but we went anyway.
15:09.30
Lorie Jones
Wow. That’s so interesting. I’m going to think on that a little bit because it’s really bringing a lot of thoughts in my mind about about being you know authentic and and listening to that that gut voice or that feeling that is telling me that that’s the right way for me to do it.
15:21.64
Liz Wendling
Yeah. Great.
15:26.22
Lorie Jones
It might not be the right way for Liz to do it, right?
15:26.74
Liz Wendling
right
15:29.05
Liz Wendling
Absolutely. And we get to do that. We don’t have to do everything people say. If it’s right for us, we take it on. And if it doesn’t, maybe we test it out.
15:40.20
Liz Wendling
And there’s nothing wrong with not listening for, i don’t know, an hour or two and then go, oh, yeah, that’s I knew it. That wasn’t right for me. I’m not saying that everything is just because you don’t want to do it. Don’t do it. You have to really kind of play with those emotions a little bit till you calibrate to what you know is right for you.
15:59.81
Lorie Jones
That’s so interesting. What about bad advice? have it what is What is the worst advice you’ve ever gotten? And did you take it?
16:08.19
Liz Wendling
Oh my gosh.
16:08.80
Lorie Jones
Did you not?
16:10.14
Liz Wendling
A lot. But I do know, because I hear this every day in my work with working with professionals who sell services over and over and over, people will say,
16:21.51
Liz Wendling
Don’t sell, just serve. Don’t sell, just educate. Don’t sell, be of service. And they’re telling people, don’t do what makes your business thrive.
16:34.04
Liz Wendling
Do the opposite and just be self-serving. Just show up and be of service. Well, you know what? Nobody wants that. Nobody wants someone to just educate them. or No one wants to be served. What they want is alignment from two smart people having a strong conversation.
16:51.75
Liz Wendling
I don’t want someone to just educate me because I’m to hang up on you if you do that. Everyone’s educated today. We go to the Internet. We know things. So that terrible advice is telling people don’t sell.
17:04.11
Liz Wendling
But I know who’s saying that. It’s the people who don’t want to sell. So they’re trying to get as many people on the bandwagon of don’t sell because they’re probably selling a product called don’t sell.
17:15.07
Liz Wendling
And we that that sounds very noble and heart centered when you hear that and a little maybe a little bit generous. But I got so tired of it. It’s over delivered.
17:28.14
Liz Wendling
It’s this terrible advice and it doesn’t help anybody. It doesn’t. Help someone understand that if you want to move the needle in your business, there is a sales conversation that has to happen.
17:41.93
Liz Wendling
And it has to be a generous sales conversation. It’s not that sleazy, let me sell you something thing. It is a conversation between two people who are in conversation about, can I help you?
17:54.26
Liz Wendling
Maybe not, but let’s have a comfortable let’s have a comfortable and conscious conversation about what it is that you need. And if I could help you, let’s do it. It’s not about being pushy. And anytime someone says, I don’t want to be pushy, I don’t want to be salesy, I don’t want to be self-serving, I don’t want to be one of those salespeople, then I tell them, then don’t.
18:14.10
Liz Wendling
But you do have to find a way to be generous and authentic and kind. So instead of saying what you don’t want to be, i tell them to declare what you do want to be. I want to show up as myself. I want to be truthful. I want to be confident. I want to have a good conversation.
18:29.51
Liz Wendling
So anytime you declare what you don’t want to be, chances are you actually show up that way anyway.
18:34.29
Lorie Jones
Oh, that’s so interesting. Yeah, when you’re saying I don’t want to do this, or I don’t want to do that. That’s where you’re putting your emphasis, huh?
18:40.95
Liz Wendling
Yes, exactly. So someone will say, i don’t want to be pushy, but just wanted to follow up with you or I just wanted to touch base. Well, that’s being pushy.
18:51.94
Liz Wendling
So, you right. I mean, that is a pushy statement. And nowadays it’s a fully loaded sentence is I thought I would just follow up. is so pushy now and so aggressive, not ah so aggressive. I’ll back off that. It’s a little bit salesy, let’s say.
19:09.56
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
19:09.81
Liz Wendling
And so I don’t want to be this, but I’m going to show up that way anyway. You can’t declare it and then do it. You have to declare what you want and then go be that.
19:20.74
Lorie Jones
Oh, I like that. And maybe put it on a vision board. I’ve got a vision board now. one of my other guests were talking about like having a vision board where they could see it.
19:29.19
Liz Wendling
Yeah.
19:29.27
Lorie Jones
And I thought that was such a great idea. Like a, like a, uh, I’ve got like a cork board that I put things like that on.
19:35.16
Liz Wendling
Yeah.
19:35.93
Lorie Jones
And so like, if you put what, who you want to show up as, then that’s where you’re putting your energy. That’s what you’re focusing on. Right.
19:43.12
Liz Wendling
yeah Yeah, absolutely. And that’s exactly, you you couldn’t have said it any better. That’s that’s the where the you’re going. That’s the direction. I don’t want to be that. It’s like somebody who golfs and says, oh, I don’t want to go in the sand trap.
19:56.86
Liz Wendling
Well, the ball goes right in the sand trap. That’s where you’re focused.
20:01.45
Lorie Jones
ah So tell me a little bit about is there a time along your journey that you’re like, oh, my gosh, if I could go back and do that again, i would do it so much differently. I know so much more now.
20:13.88
Lorie Jones
um And maybe not regret, but like, i I definitely would do it differently this time around.
20:22.30
Liz Wendling
I would say this in my relationships and in my sales jobs is I stayed way too long past the expiration date. ah yeah We all do this.
20:35.56
Liz Wendling
i i sometimes catch myself where you have all the excuses. Well, the money is good. The commute is short. Even though I knew it wasn’t the right place for me, I didn’t want to start over or Oh, he’s cute. Oh, he golfs. Oh, we have a nice relationship.
20:51.92
Liz Wendling
I don’t want to start over. So we talk ourselves into, going to talk for myself. I talked myself into staying miserable because I didn’t want to start over. I stayed long behind past the expiration date because I didn’t trust myself.
21:06.81
Liz Wendling
I didn’t have the trust to know anything.
21:06.86
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
21:09.79
Liz Wendling
and the confidence to know that I can start over. I can do things differently. So I was too busy playing small and i started resenting it. After you stay in something a little too long, then you start resenting it. And so the lesson for me was, here we go again, my intuition already know.
21:28.71
Liz Wendling
And i was waiting, i guess, waiting around wasn’t going to fix it. So the only thing that fixes it is clarity and getting clear and and confident going, I really don’t like this place. what can i What can I do from an honest place and give myself permission to get over the discomfort and the regret and and move on because I know I could start over. We all can. Every day is a different day. It’s okay if you’re doing something and you’re making excuses, but at some point you have to stop and go, right, I don’t know if I could listen to myself make up excuses anymore. What am I going to do about it?
22:05.37
Liz Wendling
All right, I’m getting tired of my voice.
22:05.86
Lorie Jones
I’m driving my… Yeah. Driving myself crazy.
22:09.73
Liz Wendling
Yep.
22:09.68
Lorie Jones
so but that is, but that is a really hard, I’ve had that exact situation where you’re talking about where you’re like, you’re stuck somewhere, but it’s so comfortable and you know, it’s so well that you’re like, you know, like, why would I want to put myself through the discomfort and pain?
22:26.67
Lorie Jones
And, you know, like, like it’s harder.
22:26.87
Liz Wendling
Yes.
22:30.24
Lorie Jones
just as harder.
22:30.47
Liz Wendling
Yep.
22:31.33
Lorie Jones
so how do you, how do you get past that? And a little bit fear, You know, you’re a little, you have to, you’re a little bit scared of what might be on the other side.
22:38.01
Liz Wendling
Mm-hmm.
22:41.91
Lorie Jones
I’m really good at what I’m doing now, but, but this feels it’s a growth, but it feels scary. So tell me how you get past that.
22:51.94
Liz Wendling
Well, definitely work. And um i have I was doing a post this morning on the, I don’t know the title yet, but here’s the premise is getting real. about what’s not working.
23:04.05
Liz Wendling
It’s being authentic about where I was being inauthentic with myself.
23:04.21
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
23:08.51
Liz Wendling
I was being inauthentic, staying in a relationship I didn’t want to be in or staying at a job i had lost interest a year before. So I was the one who was not being real with myself or authentic with myself about where I was being inauthentic. And I learned that through some coaching that I got and I realized, oh,
23:28.96
Liz Wendling
So I’m lying to myself every single day. I’m telling a giant lie. And it’s when you finally get to that and you go, oh, all right, the jig is up. I can’t pretend I don’t know this anymore.
23:41.42
Lorie Jones
on Yeah, and that and that’s really true. And actually, you’re probably the best liar to yourself there is, isn’t aren’t you
23:47.52
Liz Wendling
Oh, my. We do it every day and we do it so well. And then you catch yourself going, OK. And I don’t know if I was sharing this with you when we first had our first conversation, but I got so tired of saying to myself, oh, I’m taking myself on a solo vacation. One of these years, one of these years.
24:05.81
Liz Wendling
And then I got so sick of saying that out loud that I caught myself and said, all right, what are you going to do about it? And I went to ChatGPT and i created a road trip for myself. And I went in May of this year. And I was so proud of myself because I got sick of saying that out loud. Oh, one of these days I’m going to do that. Oh, one of these days.
24:25.95
Liz Wendling
And I was lying to myself because I wasn’t taking any action. So I did it.
24:30.01
Lorie Jones
Oh, yeah, I like that. I like that idea of the idea is that the stories we tell ourselves and then the action that we take that backs them up and the authenticity piece probably comes with the congruence of those.
24:42.88
Lorie Jones
Like the story we’re telling ourself is is authentic and true and the action we take gets us closer to that story where we want to be.
24:43.34
Liz Wendling
It does.
24:51.82
Lorie Jones
and and that makes that, that’s where the growth comes.
24:55.98
Liz Wendling
yeah
24:56.69
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Oh, that’s so smart. You’re so smart.
25:01.58
Lorie Jones
tell me, Liz, if you could look back on your journey and high five yourself for one past financial decision, what would that be?
25:13.72
Liz Wendling
I would say buying my home first, but it was investing in my growth through coaching, through self-help, through books, going to webinars, teleseminars, and weekend retreats.
25:19.80
Lorie Jones
hmm.
25:29.08
Liz Wendling
It was investing in me and myself to be a better human being, a better sister, a better friend. That always lit me up to lean into things like that.
25:42.05
Lorie Jones
hu Yeah. And I, you know, as a ah financial advisor, like I’m always supposed to give the advice that you, you know, you save for retirement and that, you know, you’re on this. And I truly will to my dying day say those are important things. But but I’ve come to realize too that making sacrifices to invest in things that will make your career better are really important financial decisions.
26:11.27
Liz Wendling
It’s so true. And business and life kind of run on the same path. And the stuff I learned in my business, I used in my personal life as well. So it was, and then things I did in my personal life, I was able to transfer them to my business life.
26:26.75
Liz Wendling
So it felt very aligned for me because who I was becoming as ah sister, a friend, a lover and who I was in my business was starting to become one.
26:39.90
Liz Wendling
No longer Liz the business woman and Liz the friend or girlfriend.
26:39.85
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
26:44.19
Liz Wendling
I was now congruent with who I was on both sides.
26:48.37
Lorie Jones
hu
26:48.71
Liz Wendling
Took two decades to finally get that and I’m still getting that. But when you can merge both of those and they don’t even feel different. I don’t feel different going to a networking event than I do going to lunch or dinner with friends.
27:04.32
Lorie Jones
yeah I think that’s when you realize too that you’re like, you’re really authentic. You’re like, you are who you are. And you start attracting people that like that, that piece. So you, so you don’t have to be a different person at work and at home because you’re starting to attract people that, that like who you are at the core level. They like your authenticity. They like who you are.
27:29.55
Liz Wendling
And it starts by liking yourself. And i didn’t I couldn’t always say that. If someone said, do you love yourself?
27:34.24
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
27:35.39
Liz Wendling
Do you like yourself? I would have said, heck no. There were things I didn’t like about myself, but I was blaming it on growing up on the East Coast. That’s just what you do when you’re from New York. And that’s not that that wasn’t true. I was using as an excuse to be an ass.
27:52.58
Liz Wendling
And that was no longer what I wanted to do. i didn’t like the beat some of the behaviors that were showing up. And I realized, no, that can change. You are choosing that behavior.
28:04.40
Liz Wendling
Now it’s time to choose something else. So it was unlearning a very ingrained behavior. and finding something else. We could all do it, right? It’s just, it’s like choosing red shoes or blue shoes.
28:16.81
Liz Wendling
We can do it. It’s not an easy journey, but if you want it, you can do it.
28:21.18
Lorie Jones
So what how did you learn to do that? like what did you it Did coaches tell you? Did you read books? like How did you learn to get? Because you say, oh, you could just do that.
28:32.49
Lorie Jones
But you know what? That is hard. That’s the hard part, Liz.
28:35.65
Liz Wendling
I know. And it was through coaches and books and and just kind of coming to it a little bit on my own. But we in any moment can make a decision or have an awareness or have a thought.
28:50.38
Liz Wendling
and go, wow, that would be really cool. And then we just go back to life or, oh, that makes a lot of sense.
28:55.54
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
28:58.46
Liz Wendling
Oh, I think I’ll try that. And then we just go back to who we were. And we’re just choosing the old way versus choosing the new way. So I’m not saying it’s like that.
29:09.06
Liz Wendling
It’s saying, I think I want to be a little different. Every time I want to react the same way I react or get upset or get mad or give someone the finger on the road, my my East Coast, I would go, you don’t do that anymore.
29:25.11
Liz Wendling
Just let it go. Or make them make a face. You don’t have to give anybody the finger. And I would choose a different response. So it wasn’t like I stopped being an ass.
29:35.73
Liz Wendling
I was just a smaller one. And then eventually I realized now I smile at people. So if someone cuts me off, I’ll sometimes wave to them or smile. And I like that side of me more than giving someone the finger.
29:49.91
Lorie Jones
that’s That’s really interesting. I was reading a book and I don’t remember what the title was, but it was talking about how if you want to become something, you see yourself as that thing.
30:02.17
Lorie Jones
So like, um i you want to get better at running, say.
30:06.82
Liz Wendling
and
30:06.82
Lorie Jones
So you you say, I am a runner. What does a runner do? Well, a runner gets up and runs in the morning in shoes, you know, and they and And that’s, I do that because I am a runner and that helps you get those, those habits and those things that you’re going to, eat better because I am a runner.
30:23.69
Lorie Jones
And, and, and until you become that thing, you tell yourself you are. So it’s a, it’s a, make it till you make it.
30:28.68
Liz Wendling
Oh, I want that book. but
30:30.71
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
30:30.92
Liz Wendling
I like that. That is really good. and And a lot of times I’m sure you hear, it I wish I was more disciplined. I want to be more disciplined saving money or disciplined about building my business or going to networking events.
30:43.67
Liz Wendling
And I say, you don’t wish to be disciplined. You choose discipline. What does a disciplined business woman do every day?
30:54.22
Lorie Jones
yeah
30:54.39
Liz Wendling
puts on her running shoes if she wants to be a runner. She gets on her computer early if she wants to be a writer. That’s a discipline that you choose. You don’t work to become it, you choose it and then be it.
31:06.64
Liz Wendling
So lean into the discipline that you’re doing.
31:06.76
Lorie Jones
a
31:10.24
Lorie Jones
I love that. Choose it and then be it. I like that. I think that’s really valuable. Super important. So Liz, my next question is what scared you the most when you started out on your journey?
31:21.30
Lorie Jones
And I am wondering if anything scared you. You don’t seem like you’re scared of anything.
31:25.33
Liz Wendling
Oh God, this is just decades of this kind of work that we’re talking about. oh my gosh. And the one that really hits when you ask that is, i think the one that stings so many people, but for myself, it was rejection.
31:40.91
Liz Wendling
It was putting myself and my business out there and hearing someone say, no, feeling like I must not be good enough. I must be, this must not be the path that I’m supposed to be on.
31:54.48
Liz Wendling
And Sometimes rejection still hurts and it still can get in all of us. We’re not immune to that, but it’s so much less in me now. I understand that I can’t win every contract. I can’t get every proposal I put out. I can’t get a yes from everybody I talk to.
32:13.40
Liz Wendling
As long as I can show up and be… the best version of me, and then just disconnect from that it has to be any outcome, that’s going to be a better a better way for me to run my business. But that fear of rejection and just fear in general, and don’t think it ever really fully goes away.
32:32.47
Liz Wendling
i think you manage it and you realize, can’t win everything. That would be like saying every date you go on is a potential husband. So I’m going to be sad because, ah I must not be good enough for that person.
32:45.96
Liz Wendling
But what if that person wasn’t good for you? So it’s it’s that discerning.
32:48.54
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
32:50.28
Liz Wendling
and And again, I’m bringing it back to the intuition. Your body already knows, listening to that. I’m not being rejected. It’s my offer they’re rejecting. They’re not rejecting me because they don’t like me.
33:03.90
Liz Wendling
They’re rejecting what my offer was or what process I had. Maybe they like someone else better. But, oh, it used to sting so hard. and and And in one of my books, I write about rejection should feel like ripping off a Band-Aid where it stings for a few seconds and pulls off a few hairs and and it hurts.
33:23.44
Liz Wendling
But it doesn’t stick around for six weeks like you had open heart surgery.
33:28.30
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
33:28.47
Liz Wendling
It’s quick. And if you allow it to be quick, then you recover faster from it.
33:33.88
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s really important, too. and And I’m sure, especially in the area of sales, that idea of rejection. you know, you mentioned we all are in sales, all of us, no matter where we’re at, we’re salespeople of some sort.
33:43.89
Liz Wendling
Yeah. Yeah.
33:47.71
Lorie Jones
um But, but that, especially in sales, being able to say it’s not me. um Like, we’re just not a good fit, like, but like something was wasn’t gonna work there that I couldn’t solve the problem they needed solved, or I wasn’t the right person for that.
34:04.61
Liz Wendling
yeah And I now, and to piggyback on that, sometimes it is that we didn’t have the right solution, but sometimes we also have to go inward and ask ourselves, did I ask the tough questions?
34:19.87
Liz Wendling
Did I have a good sales conversation?
34:19.90
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
34:22.97
Liz Wendling
Did I scare them? Did I, was I salesy? Did I say things that might’ve turned them off? And it’s really going inward. It’s not, oh, we’re not a good fit. Sometimes it is us and that’s where the reflection inside. So it’s external as well as internal.
34:39.41
Lorie Jones
How do you do that internal piece without feeling like you are a failure? You know, like, because there is something that you did there that wasn’t, didn’t work and you have to fix that.
34:50.37
Lorie Jones
But how do you do that without feeling like it was get like, I’ll give up. I’m Eeyore, right?
34:55.79
Liz Wendling
Right. and And sometimes we have to feel a little bit of that failure or call it failure or call it a misstep. It doesn’t matter. put We’re going to label it something. And then if you don’t turn that around in an instance, so you’ve got one end of the stick that I lost the sale, I’m a failure.
35:11.42
Liz Wendling
The other end of the stick is what did I do? What could I have done better? How could I have done things differently? And if there is something there, it’s up to you to build the confidence to go fix that.
35:22.58
Liz Wendling
So the end of this end of the stick doesn’t keep happening.
35:25.44
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
35:26.40
Liz Wendling
and And a lot of times it requires sometimes that external help, that going outside, calling someone like me and saying, Liz, no one’s ever looked at my sales process to understand, am I turning people off? Could you could you help me with that? Could you see if I’m using words or saying things or doing anything that’s kind of old school or sleazy?
35:49.37
Liz Wendling
and it’s Or asking friends, asking colleagues, but I guarantee there’s something happening in there that’s turning someone off or making them just kind of discount you, but not because you’re not worth it, just because something’s off and they don’t they can’t put their finger on it.
36:04.82
Liz Wendling
Something doesn’t feel right to them.
36:06.76
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, that’s interesting. and And it’s so important, too, to learn from those ah missteps or mistakes or or things that didn’t turn out quite perfectly.
36:17.25
Lorie Jones
i I’m sure, you you know, you mentioned before that there were a lot of different, um there are a lot of different jobs that didn’t work, but you learned something from them.
36:20.00
Liz Wendling
Right.
36:28.33
Liz Wendling
Yes, always took a lesson. And if you don’t get the sale, get the lesson is what I tell people. If you don’t get that new business, get the lesson that was in the reason why you didn’t get that.
36:41.12
Lorie Jones
yeah That’s so important. What about challenges? Did you face any unique challenges just because you were a woman, Liz?
36:49.90
Liz Wendling
Oh gosh, absolutely. Because sales is such a, was a male dominated field 20, 30 years ago. So male dominant that I couldn’t possibly know what I was doing. I am a you know five foot one woman, pretty, not pretty, pretty, pretty petite.
37:07.67
Liz Wendling
And she couldn’t possibly know what she’s talking about. And I know I lost business for from for that people told me, oh, we went with another company. um Our sales guys were a little more comfortable with having a man teach them, not you.
37:22.57
Liz Wendling
And hurt. It stung 20 years ago, but I realized it back back then it hurt. And now it was like, wow, that was just confirmation of people who were scared of having somebody come in and teach them something different. And she just happened to be a woman.
37:40.16
Lorie Jones
So do you still run into that today? Or has it gotten better? Or is it gone away entirely?
37:46.26
Liz Wendling
For me entirely, and here’s the only reason why is because I don’t give a crap anymore. Once I’d stopped giving a crap what they thought and I would bring it up in a meeting. I do a lot of work with law firms.
37:59.64
Liz Wendling
So I’m dealing with a lot of strong personalities, very legal minded, and I’ll bring it up. I’m like, you’re probably talking to a bunch of guys now to help you with your your sales part of your law practice.
38:13.49
Liz Wendling
and I’ll bring it up because it’s definitely in their head. What is this lady who isn’t an attorney going to come in and teach us when we’re talking to four other men? So I bring it up. I bring it up and out and I talk about it.
38:26.81
Liz Wendling
And if they choose a man, oh, well, go for it because they’re probably teaching the old old school stuff and have at it.
38:35.62
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah. um Liz, what is the thing you are most proud of?
38:42.38
Liz Wendling
Because I… bathe in it every day, i would say is my sales training and coaching business. and and I say that because my, the way I train, the way I coach, the way I consult doesn’t rely on sleazy old school tactics and scripts from the 1980s.
39:04.52
Liz Wendling
There is no one size fits all sales process. Every human is different. Every process is different and every business is different. And I’ve developed my own training programs and classes that teach people how to sell with and leave all that junk behind.
39:21.22
Liz Wendling
That stuff that says you start an email by, hope you’re doing well. Hope you had a great weekend. I zag when everybody else is selling sending a stupid message like that, which everybody on the planet says, by the way, hope you’re doing well.
39:35.33
Liz Wendling
Just know they’re rolling their eyes when they hear that. And I help them craft sales processes and sales messages and sales ah emails and proposals and conversations by who they are.
39:53.79
Liz Wendling
It’s not me saying you need to say it this way. It’s what feels right to you. i keep you in the guardrails, But we find the language and the process that fits your business, that fits everything that feels good about your business. And it really is about pulling the curtain all the way back and being authentic first.
40:12.60
Liz Wendling
And then let’s build a process but around that. How do you like to talk to people? Are you a little more firm or you a little more reserved? But let’s at least calibrate to messages and a process where people still see the value in what you do.
40:27.57
Liz Wendling
So you can close sales like nobody’s business, but without the BS of the old school stuff, which is still being taught today.
40:36.37
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’ve ah encountered some of that. It’s so interesting.
40:40.31
Liz Wendling
I’m sure you have.
40:41.00
Lorie Jones
aim Yeah. its It’s so interesting because i was um i had a presentation to give. And so I went to a speaking coach and they gave me a survey about what my speaking style was.
40:57.10
Lorie Jones
like what And I didn’t even know I had a speaking style. like i was ah i was I was like, what what do you mean speaking style?
41:04.26
Liz Wendling
yeah
41:05.02
Lorie Jones
apparently my purpose whenever I talk is like inspiration, you know, like I like to inspire people.
41:10.62
Liz Wendling
OK. Yeah.
41:13.50
Lorie Jones
And so it’s so interesting that, that there’s that same kind of like authenticity, like, like when I speak and I try and um make people feel laugh. Like maybe I’m not the comedian, right?
41:27.02
Lorie Jones
That’s maybe not me.
41:27.11
Liz Wendling
yeah
41:28.26
Lorie Jones
But if I’m trying to inspire, I do really well. So it’s the same sort of thing with sales, right?
41:31.73
Liz Wendling
yeah
41:33.76
Lorie Jones
Like you have your own specific kind of authentic sort of the way that you do things. And if you lean into that, then you’re, then you are more successful.
41:43.61
Liz Wendling
up Absolutely. And it’s, nothing makes me happier than somebody I’m working with who says, oh my God, i could say it that way.
41:53.71
Liz Wendling
Or, my gosh, I sent an email the other day to someone I haven’t, I’ve been following up with them for the last year and we tweak something and change the messaging and they got right back to them.
42:07.22
Liz Wendling
And it wasn’t because I have magic language. We write it as if you’re writing to someone, not at someone. A lot of messages now feel like they’re just coming at us like a commercial versus a message that really feels like it was written to me and it lands in my inbox for me.
42:15.76
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
42:26.34
Liz Wendling
And when people say to me, oh my gosh, I’m going to say that all the time, or I like that message, or I never thought I could say it that way. That’s when they start realizing, oh, that’s what you mean by I get to use my real self and my voice and build my business the way I want to.
42:44.14
Liz Wendling
And look at the results I get, not someone else telling me you have to follow my process.
42:48.92
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s so that’s so important. I love that that fills you up and that makes you proud because because that is really important and valuable. And I think that you know coming from a traditionally male-dominated in finances and where women…
43:02.16
Liz Wendling
ah
43:04.96
Lorie Jones
sure they they that’s probably one of the largest things that keeps women out of being a financial advisor. It’s not because we don’t know our stuff. It’s because we have a hard time getting to that sales conversation.
43:17.01
Liz Wendling
Right.
43:17.17
Lorie Jones
um And it feels icky to a lot of us. And so I think that that that idea of like, hey, I know male colleagues that like throw the phone book at people still today and are like, here, have fun cold calling.
43:31.72
Lorie Jones
That’s what I did.
43:32.06
Liz Wendling
they Thanks.
43:32.36
Lorie Jones
That’s what you can do. Yeah.
43:34.31
Liz Wendling
1995, that doesn’t work anymore.
43:35.53
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
43:37.17
Liz Wendling
and and And I’m glad that you’ve picked up on that. doesn’t feel good for you, so why would you do it? Yet your industry, there’s still a lot of that old boys stuff, old boys club going on. Oh, I did it this way 30 years ago, you should do it this way today.
43:56.02
Liz Wendling
And they forget about all the great stuff that has taken place in the last 30 years that needs to be put into a sales conversation as well. You can’t treat people like 1995.
44:06.95
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, so Liz, if you could give advice to a young lady who’s kind of just starting down this path that you’re successful at, what advice would you give her?
44:19.86
Liz Wendling
If this young lady was starting her own business or wanting to start something where she was the face of the business, I would say absolutely first tune into the fact that if you have a business, if you have something, if you have something meant for the world, you are in sales.
44:40.86
Liz Wendling
If you have a business, you’re in sales. Unless you have a salesperson, you’re the one selling not only yourself, but your product or service. Sales are the only way for every business to stay in business.
44:54.50
Liz Wendling
Every business on the planet survives because someone is closing business, not because they have a great social media strategy. Someone has to hand you money in order for you to have a closed sale.
45:06.25
Liz Wendling
Someone has to pay you for your expertise. And you don’t get that by just posting. It’s conversations. And if you, and sales is a skill like any other skill, just like you want to learn to cook, you can learn to cook, but there is a skill behind how do you align with people? How do you talk to people in a way that opens them up, not shuts them down?
45:29.70
Liz Wendling
So I would say, learn that skill first because everything else becomes easier when you know how to sell yourself and your services.
45:38.42
Lorie Jones
I love that. yeah And it sounds like it’s not only ah a job, but a passion. Like you, you feel like, you know, like, like you could, you could use this, I don’t know, to sell eating broccoli to a three-year-old.
45:44.63
Liz Wendling
Yeah.
45:52.91
Lorie Jones
Like you can use sales in just about anything.
45:57.76
Liz Wendling
And it really isn’t the what people think of sales. I know people think that, oh, sales is all about pushing your stuff and being aggressive and making sure you stay in front of people.
46:10.22
Liz Wendling
Well, if you want to pretend like it’s 1995, yeah, it’s still like that. still like that But when there’s alignment, when someone starts leaning into what you are offering, that’s the start of a good conversation. And both parties get to acknowledge that, hey, Lori, I know you and I are talking about financial planning today or your your need for life insurance.
46:35.25
Liz Wendling
And I know you’re not going to make a decision today. I don’t want you to make one today because this this is something I need you to think through. how would you like me to stay in touch with you? Or how would you like us to continue our conversation versus, well, how about here’s what I’ll do.
46:47.93
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
46:49.98
Liz Wendling
I’ll send you proposal in the mail and then I’ll follow up with you. And then we can get on each other’s calendars. And it just feels like you went from being congruent, aligned and kind and generous to salesy, pushy and aggressive.
47:03.04
Liz Wendling
And there’s a difference. And this is where a lot of times people will ghost you when you start taking on the traits of someone who is doesn’t think they’re being salesy or pushy and they are versus aligned and congruent, kind, authentic, and genuine.
47:18.22
Lorie Jones
Well, Liz, we’ve had such a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today. If I have a young lady who wants to get in touch with you and pick your brain and ask a few questions, how does she do that?
47:29.37
Liz Wendling
Oh, lots of ways. I’m on LinkedIn, Liz Wendling. My website is the same. It’s lizwendling.com. And my email is liz at lizwendling.com. You’ll find me.
47:41.32
Lorie Jones
You’re out there. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for just joining us and and sharing all your wisdom. And I appreciate it so much.
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Liz Wendling
Thank you for letting me spend time with you. This was wonderful.