In today’s conversation, Lori Jones sits down with Lauren Kwedar Cockerell, president of Kwedar & Co., who shares her inspiring journey from book-loving child to successful entrepreneur.
Listen in as Lauren recounts how being laid off at eight months pregnant became the catalyst for launching her own business—and how embracing lifelong learning and valuing her own worth transformed her professional path. You’ll also hear candid advice on negotiating salaries, trusting your intuition, scaling teams with heart, and the importance of taking time to rest and rejuvenate.
This episode is packed with real stories, practical lessons, and encouragement for any woman aiming to carve her own fearless trail in the business world.
Show Highlights:
- Do great PR careers evolve from a childhood love of stories? [08:26]
- How being laid off can be an entrepreneurial springboard. [12:13]
- The power of coaching to help start and sustain a business. [16:00]
- The certification and accelerator that transformed Lauren’s path. [17:45]
- Are you undercharging without negotiating first offers? [21:44]
- Pitfalls of boosting headcount without strategy during rapid growth. [25:58]
- The importance of delegating financial administration. [30:44]
- Why “hire slow, fire fast” is true—better done with humanity. [35:36]
- Fostering rest and adventure beyond work as an employer. [41:38]
- AI and entry-level job challenges vs. unlocking unique value. [43:32]
Connect with Lauren Kwedar Cockerell on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenkwedar/ or via email at hello@kwedarco.com.You can also find Lauren’s work or contact her at https://www.kwedarco.com/.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.02
Lorie Jones
Good morning, fearless females. So we’re here today with Lauren Quedar Cockrell. She is the president of Quedar and Co. And I practiced that name three times in my head. So I did so good. Are you so proud of me? um Anyways, I’m super excited to have you on the show with us today, Lauren, and thank you so much for for sharing your story.
00:23.43
Lauren Cockerell
Absolutely, Lori. I’m really excited to be here and good job on the name pronunciation.
00:28.34
Lorie Jones
I know so proud of myself i if if I was really good I probably wouldn’t even mention how good I did but you know positive of reinforcement
00:35.55
Lauren Cockerell
Hey, gold star. You know what?
00:36.70
Lorie Jones
well
00:36.70
Lauren Cockerell
We were talking about being perfectionist beforehand. Like, here’s your gold star. ah You did it.
00:40.18
Lorie Jones
yeah yeah that’s ah I just need a gold star every once in a while don’t we all like don’t we all well my first question is always i love reading love books what is your favorite book
00:43.80
Lauren Cockerell
Yes, we did. Yes, please.
00:54.17
Lauren Cockerell
Well, we are two peas in a pod. i read about 100 books a year, maybe more if you count the books I read to my kids. So um i will I will name two and call them like ones I don’t hear about a lot, but I end up recommending a lot. So the first one in the business vein is Free to Focus by Michael Hyatt. That one really taught me a lot you know in a book about – ways to think about delegating. Like as I was really starting to grow my team and add really wonderful people to the mix who could help us do great work,
01:30.27
Lauren Cockerell
It was helped me think about levels one through four of delegation. It taught me a lot about what he calls offstage time. Like, you know, at some point you really have a law of diminishing turn returns. You know, as as people who work really hard and love to work, we grind, grind, grind, grind. grind But at some point you got to take time and and refresh and all that. So there are some really powerful lessons that came from that book for me. And then fiction, which I read quite a lot of as well, the ministry of time. And I’m going I’m not going to,
01:58.91
Lauren Cockerell
get her name right. it’s I think it’s Kaylian Bradley. But if you look at the Ministry of Time, you will find it. And it was one of those books I just, I got at the library one day.
02:10.22
Lauren Cockerell
It was it was a new release. I think i only get they gave me a week to read it. And I just barreled through it in 24 hours. And it really just took me into this story. and and i And I love to recommend it to people.
02:21.33
Lauren Cockerell
And then they come back and then they’re recommending it to other people. And so anyway, if you want a great fiction, a little bit of fantasy, a little bit of romance to sweep you off your feet, I recommend that one.
02:25.48
Lorie Jones
Oh.
02:32.50
Lorie Jones
I love that. I used to, you know, when I had my little kids, when my kids were little, my very favorite place to be was the library. And so we would go to the library and i and you know, as a mom well with with a lot of little kids, you’ve got about 3.2 seconds to pick out a book that you like, right?
02:39.33
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
02:49.11
Lauren Cockerell
Yes. Right.
02:50.06
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
02:50.33
Lauren Cockerell
Right. Yeah. my Hold on.
02:51.58
Lorie Jones
But when they say, like, don’t judge a book by its cover, I was always judging it by its cover.
02:51.97
Lauren Cockerell
yeah evening Yes.
02:56.28
Lorie Jones
I would walk past the new releases and pick up, you know, just two or three that I could put in my arms and we’d go to the the kids section.
02:56.47
Lauren Cockerell
here
03:00.31
Lauren Cockerell
Yep.
03:03.68
Lorie Jones
So I’m super excited to have those.
03:04.20
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
03:05.44
Lorie Jones
And I haven’t heard that um business book selection yet.
03:06.90
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah. Okay.
03:08.48
Lorie Jones
So I’m super excited about this. You’ve made my pile higher.
03:10.30
Lauren Cockerell
Yes. Well, and actually, um we were talking about kids. My favorite kid series is Dory Phantasmagory. My son is now reading it for the second time, and I laugh so hard. It’s about the third kid in a family. Her name is Dory, but everyone calls her Rascal, and she’s got this incredible imagination, and the author just totally gets kids. It’s so funny. it’s you know You see being a parent, you see being a kid, and I just, I laugh so hard. every time I read it with my kiddos. And so if you need a good series for your early reader, Dory Phantasmagory.
03:45.50
Lorie Jones
I love that. i I used to read the Ginny B. Jones. Do you remember those ones?
03:49.59
Lauren Cockerell
Oh, yes.
03:49.64
Lorie Jones
They used to make me laugh out loud.
03:50.07
Lauren Cockerell
Oh, yes.
03:52.20
Lorie Jones
i thought she was the funniest little girl. So I i still will as an adult.
03:55.11
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
03:57.00
Lorie Jones
i like like i I’m embarrassed to admit I actually read them myself rather than reading them to my kids.
03:59.93
Lauren Cockerell
fifth Yeah.
04:03.04
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
04:03.12
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, yeah. Well, and now my, I’m sorry, we’re just going to talk about books. This not a book podcast. My my fifth grader loves spy novels, like kids’ spy novels, where the kids are the spies. And they are so good.
04:14.29
Lauren Cockerell
There’s, you know, I’ll read a couple pages to her before she reads for an hour by herself. And I’m like, maybe I should read this myself. This is really good.
04:20.98
Lorie Jones
Yeah, it really is. If you delve kind of into children’s fiction and and young adult fiction, you can find some really good stuff there. So yeah, well, that’ that’s great.
04:27.88
Lauren Cockerell
Absolutely.
04:29.38
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about yourself, Lauren, as tell me about your journey.
04:29.59
Lauren Cockerell
okay
04:33.62
Lorie Jones
Like, did you, how did you get started? Did you always know what you wanted to be when you grew up?
04:35.74
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm.
04:38.02
Lorie Jones
Like, how did you follow this path?
04:40.75
Lauren Cockerell
Well, i didn’t I did not land where I, you know, if I could go back to fifth grade when I thought I wanted to be an archaeologist. um ah You know, I’m an elder millennial, ah you know, kind of on the cusp of, ah what is it, Gen X.
04:47.61
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
04:52.88
Lauren Cockerell
um And, you know, was like marine biologist or an archaeologist. ah You know, but if you think about it, it was really storytelling all along. Like, I was really interested. I wasn’t necessarily and wanting to do the science part of it.
05:04.87
Lauren Cockerell
It was the stories that captured my imagination. you know, thinking about, the Titanic. And when, you know, I would go to the library, speak of the library, my parents would take me there every single week. I would check out the maximum number of books that I was allowed.
05:17.32
Lauren Cockerell
i would go home, I would read them, and I would come back at my very next opportunity and start over again. at To the point even my my my pediatrician was like, you should go outside sometimes.
05:29.50
Lauren Cockerell
you yeah I hate to tell you that you’re reading too much, but you should touch some grass. You know, this is the 80s. But anyway,
05:37.21
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
05:38.46
Lauren Cockerell
Looking back now, um so jump jumping ahead and still loving stories as someone who is in the ah PR field where what we’re doing all the all the time is is crafting stories for our clients and telling their story in a way it’s never been told before and taking…
05:56.31
Lauren Cockerell
you know, if I’ve read tens of thousands of books in my life, you know, it’s like all these stories and and and a love of story and a love of story craft. And so, you know, even in college, I went to a small liberal arts college and got ah a business degree, but I took tons of English literature classes and just, you know, Southern literature and Gothic literature and just, it’s just been stories this whole time. And then when I graduated, i thought, I don’t, I don’t know what to do. i um you know, I’d looked at finance and, you know, maybe financial planning, but,
06:26.49
Lauren Cockerell
so cold calling as an entry-level job was like, oh, I don’t know if I can do that. um But I, and I was having, yeah, was having lunch one day that summer after graduating with a friend of mine, and she said, well, you know, we were the only two from high school back in our hometown of Fort Worth, and she was like, sorry, buddy, I got my dream job in New York, I’m leaving town, and I knew she had an internship at the time.
06:31.83
Lorie Jones
But now…
06:46.61
Lauren Cockerell
I didn’t even really know what it was, but i said well what are you doing with your internship? And she said, well, I don’t know, I’m leaving it and I said, well, can I have it? Like, it’s a transferable and you know thing this is you know when you’re 22 and you’re so dumb and don’t know anything i was like well can i have your internship she was like i don’t know so i i made up i made up a resume you know made up a little portfolio of marketing papers and business papers and english literature papers and kind of turned it in like hey you know can i can i come here and see what y’all are about and it it was at a pr firm
07:18.19
Lauren Cockerell
And they they they brought me in, and I i started in 2003 as the intern, and when I left in 2013, I was the vice president. It just was like, you know, a duck finding water for the first time.
07:25.46
Lorie Jones
Oh, wow. Mm-hmm.
07:29.07
Lauren Cockerell
like, oh, my gosh, it’s bringing stories, which I love, obviously. And then turning into, you know, i also really enjoyed business and business classes in college. My dad has owned his own business.
07:40.62
Lauren Cockerell
My mom worked for IBM for over 30 years. it was like, you know, business was part of our kitchen table growing up, but I didn’t really know how that was going to work for me as an adult. but all of a sudden, all these things are coalescing for the first time in my life.
07:52.17
Lauren Cockerell
i was like, whoa. And so anyway, here we are 23 years later.
07:57.62
Lorie Jones
I love that. So you worked for that firm for 13 years and then did you start your own at that point?
08:02.65
Lauren Cockerell
Yep. So I worked for that firm for 10, actually, 2003 to 2013.
08:03.10
Lorie Jones
Okay. Yeah.
08:05.49
Lauren Cockerell
I left there and went in-house for a client for about five years. i was looking to try something different. I was getting married and, you know, I knew family was going to be a priority for me.
08:18.37
Lauren Cockerell
And, you know leaving a very small agency, I was like, well, what’s maternity leave going to look like? And yeah I kind of run out of runway at that. firm too. Like, it was like, I hit the ceiling a bit. my ah My next option was to buy it or leave. And I ultimately decided, you know, I’m just going to move on and try something else, try try the other side of the table.
08:35.23
Lauren Cockerell
And so I went in-house for for five years for, it was two sister IT t companies. And what turned from a director of public relations role quick turned into like a sales role and a commodity sales role, like selling server space, Office 365, things like that.
08:46.42
Lorie Jones
oh
08:49.21
Lauren Cockerell
And I just wasn’t what I put was put on this earth to do.
08:49.87
Lorie Jones
wow
08:52.37
Lauren Cockerell
um and so And then it wasn’t the healthiest of environments for me either, um it which will you’ll see momentarily. ah They laid me off at eight months pregnant when I was pregnant with our second kid.
09:05.24
Lauren Cockerell
um And i was like, well,
09:05.66
Lorie Jones
ah well
09:07.99
Lauren Cockerell
Huh. Uh, you know, and meanwhile, you know, the, all that five years, my husband and I had been, know, every, every date night was, well, if you started your own company, what would that that look like? Cause I had, I was interested in that, you know, entrepreneurship, business ownership, owning my own PR firm was something that I was curious about. I just thought when I’m 40, I’ll know everything.
09:26.65
Lauren Cockerell
That’s when, that’s when everyone figures things out, the magical age of 40.
09:26.77
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
09:30.10
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I love that. i love I wish I, I wish I had known that at 40 because it would have been nice to know everything then.
09:35.89
Lauren Cockerell
Well, I’ll be 45 this year. i still haven’t figured it out. ah ah Anyway, so ah the timeline accelerated. And so so I think i was 36 or so when i was they laid me off. I thought, well, can’t go interview. ah so I guess today’s the day. You know, i this is the something I wanted to do. I i feel like i don’t have a lot of options, but this is something that I want to do.
09:57.81
Lauren Cockerell
Let’s just let it rip, see what happens.
09:57.83
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
09:59.16
Lauren Cockerell
And and now that has been eight years. And so um I haven’t looked back. It was it was really a very difficult moment, but also one of the best things that could have happened to me because I was kind of trapped there.
10:10.58
Lauren Cockerell
I didn’t feel like I could leave. i i you know my My confidence had really been dinged. I wasn’t really sure what I could do anymore. And so them crowbarring me out of that difficult situation was the push I needed to to move forward.
10:27.47
Lorie Jones
It’s so hard, but sometimes that’s true, is that unless you are shoved out ah for whatever reason into the cold, dark world, the the dreams that you have, you don’t you you always are waiting for that perfect time to make them happen, right?
10:29.90
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
10:33.52
Lauren Cockerell
who
10:46.11
Lorie Jones
And the perfect time never comes.
10:46.11
Lauren Cockerell
Absolutely. There’s no perfect time. That’s right.
10:49.49
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
10:49.79
Lauren Cockerell
And and also, if you’re in a service, you’re I’m in a service world. I like to take care of people. I’m very loyal. So it just wasn’t like, okay, how do I leave?
11:00.00
Lauren Cockerell
You know, even though they weren’t necessarily treating me well, I thought, well, I’m taking care of them. and And, you know, just, yeah, shoving out in the cold, dark world is exactly what needed to happen. And, you know, I’m i’m thankful that they did it.
11:13.08
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. At the time, though, I bet you it was a ah little bit harder to be thankful.
11:16.62
Lauren Cockerell
It was a little harder, yeah. and And I, you know, I did have a bit of a sense that something was like, i I’m just an empath by nature. it’s It’s a blessing and a curse. And I could sense things were shifting. We were we were a remote company, even though we’ we’re all in Fort Worth, even at that time. So that’s, you know, 13 years ago.
11:34.03
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
11:34.24
Lauren Cockerell
and That’s not right. Well, anyway, what is time? I don’t know.
11:37.10
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
11:37.90
Lauren Cockerell
plus I’ve lost track. Is that right? Yeah. 13 years ago. um ah So but when I started there, we’re already remote. And um and so they, but the yeah, they just called me up on the phone one day and and laid me off and I I’d felt before it happened, I was like, things things don’t feel right.
11:46.32
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
11:55.22
Lauren Cockerell
And I went to my husband.
11:55.58
Lorie Jones
and
11:56.22
Lauren Cockerell
I was like, I think think they’re going to let me go. Are we OK? I’m about to have this baby. How much time do we have? and you know he laid at our runway. He’s like, everything’s fine. The most important thing is our son and you. you know let’s Let’s just get through this, and we’ll figure it out.
12:09.75
Lorie Jones
Oh, that’s great. That’s great to have that kind of support too. That’s really, ah yeah.
12:12.45
Lauren Cockerell
Yes, absolutely.
12:14.74
Lorie Jones
um Lauren, what is, if you can kind of look over your journey, what is the best investment you’ve made in yourself? Is there something that you’re just like, oh my gosh, I’m so glad I did that.
12:25.56
Lauren Cockerell
Well, there have been a couple if I’m allowed to be indulged. um There’s the the first one was so the morning the morning that they laid me off, early earlier in that morning, I mailed a $5,000 check to a coach because I had felt the shift. i was like, I am so broken down. i don’t know who I am as a professional anymore. I need help figuring out, evaluating two paths. Do I start my own company or do I go work for somebody else you know while I have these itty-bitty babies?
12:56.38
Lauren Cockerell
And so the mail person leaves with my my check in their truck and they call me to lay me off. And I think, oh my God, please come back with that check.
13:07.03
Lauren Cockerell
ah
13:07.51
Lorie Jones
Wait.
13:08.90
Lauren Cockerell
It’s gone. i was like, okay, well, ah here we go. um But investing in that first coach, that was the second coach I’ve ever had. i had ah my my first My first boss had a coach for me, which was really helpful, but this is my own money. um And i you know I believe in finding the right one, who you know depending on where you are in your life and career.
13:29.54
Lauren Cockerell
She helped me process the trauma of being laid off at eight months pregnant. It was such a tender, vulnerable time. It was kind of like business therapy.
13:36.66
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
13:39.90
Lauren Cockerell
Then she really helped me figure out, okay, what do I really want? It’s to help me establish some initial values as a business person. And then held me accountable for, okay, you’ve got to get your website up.
13:52.07
Lauren Cockerell
You’ve got to tell people, you it like really cheering me on and holding me accountable at a time where it’s very scattered. And like, which way is up? And so that first coach was a great investment.
14:04.96
Lauren Cockerell
About 18 months later, I survived the first year of business. um And I look up, you know, I’ve got one-year-old and a four-year-old.
14:15.93
Lauren Cockerell
Like, I really, i need to do something. And i had been listening to a podcast called Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller. And then I read his book.
14:24.24
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
14:25.24
Lauren Cockerell
And i thought, you know what, I’d love to go to a class. Like, that’d be great to just pour into myself. I love to learn, just lifelong learner. ah It’s like one of our core values at Quedar & Co.
14:35.44
Lauren Cockerell
is delightfully curious. And like, that’d be really fun to go to like, you know, feel like I’m in college and just go to a seminar. And so I look up his workshop and I thought well, you know I’ve been doing this for a long time. The workshop isn’t quite for me, but I kept scrolling. and I saw that you could get a certification in this methodology. And I thought, that’s it. That’s what I want to do. um And I see it. so i So I submit an inquiry and we go through this whole sales process. And they’re like, it’s $10,000. I’m like, okay, here’s my credit card number. Like, no, no, you have to apply. I’m like, that’s fine. But you I’m coming. I will be…
15:04.87
Lauren Cockerell
April 2019, I will be there in Nashville, Tennessee.
15:07.57
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
15:08.61
Lauren Cockerell
I am coming. They’re like, well, we have to you know, whatever. I’m like, no you don’t understand. I’m doing this. um And, you know, I did it initially for the education, which was which was great. It also, they were like, you know, now that you’re a member of this club, these are your new minimums, which were like five times what I was charging. Like, oh shoot, okay. Which now we charge way more than that. was like, but it was my first time that I had to be forced to,
15:31.89
Lauren Cockerell
to we reckon with this is the value that you are actually providing, get with it. um
15:37.11
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
15:37.77
Lauren Cockerell
Then i get introduced to all the guys from around the the world, which at that time was probably about 800, and found my people for the first time as an adult.
15:47.50
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
15:49.35
Lauren Cockerell
And so that $10,000 turned into a $5,000 annual renewal. And I was a guide until 2025. So last year I retired. Just the the it was the program had totally changed. It wasn’t what it was anymore. But those the people i was close with remained some of my…
16:08.38
Lauren Cockerell
closest collaborators and friends and mentors and and just that was such a huge investment. you know it It changed my brain chemistry, it changed like who I was ah but as a professional. I never really ran a what some people have as a story brand business where they’re just selling messaging and websites and things like that.
16:24.33
Lauren Cockerell
um It was always just kind of folded into the PR work that we did, but it it it was really
16:27.61
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
16:30.89
Lauren Cockerell
just such a transformative experience. And then ah somewhere along the way, I also became, i invested in um the EO Accelerator program as well.
16:38.61
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
16:38.89
Lauren Cockerell
and And that’s, you know, again, finding a right program where it’s like everyone understands the price of admission.
16:39.31
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
16:44.71
Lauren Cockerell
You find your people who are like going through kind of a similar, it’s like, you know, we don’t, we’re not in in school anymore. So it’s not like you’re finding these natural moments of time where you get to be with people who are like, oh yeah, I’m in this class or whatever.
16:51.18
Lorie Jones
Huh.
16:55.02
Lorie Jones
Huh.
16:55.74
Lauren Cockerell
So it’s just so helpful to be like, we’re all speaking the same language. We’re all in like similar-ish, you know, lanes of business or or ah what you call phases of business and just have met the most amazing people.
17:09.14
Lauren Cockerell
It’s like, you know, you get up with your own little board of directors across, know, in all these places. And so…
17:14.71
Lorie Jones
Yeah, people doing.
17:14.78
Lauren Cockerell
and And now I had now have a coach again, and that’s been that’s been really helpful as well.
17:15.47
Lorie Jones
what
17:18.30
Lauren Cockerell
so yeah Someone explained it a couple years ago, of like, you know, Tiger Woods has a coach, ah LeBron James has a coach.
17:23.71
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
17:24.87
Lauren Cockerell
you know all these people who are really at the top of their game in, say, professional sports, like, they still have coaches. Like, why don’t you, as an entrepreneur, have a coach who’s just continuing to hone your blade?
17:34.17
Lorie Jones
A coach. Yeah, so that you can get better and better. I find that so interesting. I was thinking the other day as I was going into one of the meetings I was going to, I’m like, I feel like um like some of these meetings or networking meetings that we go to are just like, ah you know, our mom used to set up play dates with us for other people.
17:51.64
Lauren Cockerell
yeah
17:54.01
Lorie Jones
This is just, I’m sitting at my own play date with like people that I want to play with that I that i think are doing cool things that I think are are really making a difference in the world and watching how they do it.
17:56.63
Lauren Cockerell
Yes. Yes. Yes.
18:05.09
Lorie Jones
And then I’m, you know, mimicking or, yeah.
18:07.04
Lauren Cockerell
I love that. 100%.
18:08.04
Lorie Jones
i thought
18:08.06
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah. Yeah.
18:09.21
Lorie Jones
yes
18:09.66
Lauren Cockerell
ah
18:11.05
Lorie Jones
That’s really funny. One of those mom things. What about the worst advice someone gave you, Lauren?
18:13.24
Lauren Cockerell
yeah
18:17.07
Lorie Jones
Can you ever think of some really bad advice and you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m so glad I didn’t take it or oh, I did.
18:22.65
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, yeah.
18:22.75
Lorie Jones
and This is what you can learn from that.
18:24.63
Lauren Cockerell
Well, um when I first, so when after I left the my first agency, i and I was, went I didn’t even spin up a resume at that time. Like, it was a client at the time, and they got wind that I was looking to leave, they were like, no, no, ah we will create a job, come over here. And so was like, great. So then i have to negotiate my salary for the first time in decade, and they made an offer. And ah someone I love and trust said, oh, that’s a good offer, take it. And thought, well, okay, I feel like I should, like, negotiate, you know. And so I went to my husband. He was like, no, here are all the reasons you need to negotiate. and um And so I did negotiate. I did not listen to the advice. I did negotiate. We ended up going up another 20% to 30%, I think, because I didn’t i didn’t need their benefits, we have insurance, things like that. like, you’re saving a ton of money. Like, go ahead and just pay that to me. I’ll take that in salary. Thank you.
19:17.85
Lorie Jones
Thanks so much.
19:18.10
Lauren Cockerell
um Yeah. um And so, and and now as an employer, it surprises me how rarely my applicants or employees negotiate.
19:31.43
Lauren Cockerell
You know, I’m always, I always try to do my best offer, um you know, I prepare, but very rarely does anyone push back.
19:32.30
Lorie Jones
Great.
19:38.99
Lauren Cockerell
And like, oh my God, ladies, come on, let’s negotiate. um And then, ah and then since I’ve had my own company, There have been times where I’m like, i don’t I don’t know if this is the right client for me, whether it’s the timing or it feels like maybe it’s a values mismatch or they’ve just hit ah one of my tripwires. I’m like, this doesn’t feel right. i don’t love how this is going. Yeah.
20:00.66
Lauren Cockerell
you know, whether it’s internal or external, someone said, well, no, it’s okay. Just, just take it, just, just do it, you know, take the income, take the experience. And so I go in with eyes wide open, but I’ve been right every single time.
20:14.79
Lauren Cockerell
And, and so it’s like, you know, the more experience you get, the more finely tuned your intuition is.
20:15.35
Lorie Jones
huh
20:20.51
Lauren Cockerell
I mean, it’s like, is it, is intuition as an experience? you know, what, what is it? But it’s like, my gut is saying, don’t do it. And I’ve been burned every time. Yeah. That every time I defy the intuition, the intuition has proven right.
20:30.46
Lorie Jones
here
20:35.70
Lorie Jones
That’s really interesting. I wonder if I, you know, like, Because you’ve made a connection there with the two different pieces. Like don’t take your first offer, like negotiate and, and listen to your intuition.
20:49.06
Lorie Jones
Like don’t, you don’t always have to take the client. If it isn’t a good fit, um you know, like much like you wouldn’t kind of take your first offer, like don’t, don’t bring on clients that aren’t good fits and you, and you kind of do know
20:53.14
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
21:02.90
Lauren Cockerell
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
21:04.73
Lorie Jones
you know something feels off i i’ve i’ve had that exact same experience where i have like powered through it and i’m like uh i would 100 go back and not do this again it was a it was a something in the universe was telling me this was not my tribe right here
21:14.90
Lauren Cockerell
and a her
21:21.62
Lauren Cockerell
Absolutely. Yeah, it’s, know, if people are a little funky during the dating phase, like, it’s not going to get better.
21:34.54
Lauren Cockerell
There’s there’s a lid for every pot, you know, like, I i now have lost, I’ve taken the time to establish even more, like, referral partners I can, like, for whatever reason, if it’s a if it’s a budget thing or a delivery thing or even a values thing, I mean, you know, unless they’re just an odious toad, like, you like ah here are some options for you so that I’m not just bouncing you back out to the internet.
21:34.57
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
21:58.95
Lauren Cockerell
But yeah, it’s it’s im I went into 2026 with much more rigid containers around, like, here’s who we are, here’s who we serve, here’s the value we offer.
22:10.09
Lauren Cockerell
It’s, you know, we’re not we’re not everything to everybody anymore.
22:13.21
Lorie Jones
ahead Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like the way you put that. That’s really interesting. What, what about Lauren ad do over like, is there a situation in your past you can kind of look back on?
22:24.60
Lauren Cockerell
you
22:27.34
Lorie Jones
I know I always laugh because I’m like, Oh yeah, I have so many of those, but is there, is there a situation you can kind of point to where you’re like, Oh, if I could go back with all the knowledge I have today and do that over, this is how I do it differently.
22:30.90
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
22:36.89
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
22:40.60
Lauren Cockerell
You know, for most of my life, I would have said no, because even the really difficult lessons, I mean, you know, I had a very mean client say, success is a terrible teacher.
22:52.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
22:52.37
Lauren Cockerell
He was not being nice when he said it, but that lesson has stuck. the Success is a terrible teacher. You know, we really learn when we make a mistake. So, I wouldn’t necessarily want to take away the powerful lesson of 2024, which 2024 was our best top line revenue year.
23:11.23
Lauren Cockerell
We grew 70% top line revenue that year. What I, the mistake I made was um I threw people at the problem. I didn’t scale.
23:21.42
Lauren Cockerell
I grew. um and I,
23:22.41
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
23:25.82
Lauren Cockerell
really felt my ego kind of get out in front of me a little bit. Like i really like there were a couple times in the fourth quarter i was like, you are out in front of your skis a little bit. You need to slow down. You need to kind of rein it in. Just because it’s this way right now doesn’t mean it’s always going to be this way. And I lost track of my tax liability.
23:46.01
Lauren Cockerell
um I like didn’t fully understand. It was there a lot of financial that um missteps that really I mean, man, 2025 started and I was like, holy cow, I have i have lost the plot here.
24:03.06
Lauren Cockerell
um And so last year was a reckoning. But I will tell you what, i will I will not make those mistakes again. I will make different mistakes, but I will not make those again.
24:11.03
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
24:12.90
Lauren Cockerell
But I think if I could go back, Again, listening to your intuition, which I think we’re just going end up with a theme here. I wish I, like there was a voice in my head saying like, you’re you you’re swinging for the fences, which is fine, but you are now allowing your ego to drive the bus instead of, you know, like a calmer, ah more strategic part of you. And I wouldn’t have made a hire that I made, which they were, they’re a great person. It just, I didn’t have an i a contained role for them. They were just someone I had wanted to work with. And it very quickly was not a fit. And then just you know, I righted the ship last year, but it was it was really it was rough.
24:55.77
Lorie Jones
So it was it was more growth than you were kind of expecting and you didn’t have like the ampha infrastructure to kind of back it up. Is that
25:03.67
Lauren Cockerell
a little bit of that and um you know it was it was like the i’m just gonna make hay while the sun shines but i i didn’t uh it didn’t fix the processes you know so we when when we were more than more than half that size everything you know that system worked one way but when you scale that or grow that dramatically your systems have to change And instead of fixing the systems, I just added people. And that was, you know, it but it was like, oh we’re going so quickly. We’re growing so quickly. There’s no time. Just just just do it. Just solve the demand. ah
25:40.02
Lauren Cockerell
And that I shouldn’t have done that. And I also, that was one of the clients shouldn’t have taken on was part of that growth. And anyway, so.
25:46.67
Lorie Jones
that’s so interesting i was um reading the book um i I can’t remember. It’s by, I think it’s by Dan Heath and I can’t remember the title right now.
25:54.73
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm.
25:56.01
Lorie Jones
It’s escaping me, but, but the, the, it starts out and there’s this guy downstream catching the babies that are coming downstream.
26:01.75
Lauren Cockerell
and Yes, yes.
26:03.76
Lorie Jones
Right. like And it’s all they can do. These two guys to get the the babies out of the water and rescue the babies.
26:09.78
Lauren Cockerell
and yeah
26:11.05
Lorie Jones
And the, the point is this, the one guy gets out of the water and starts walking away. And the second guy’s like, what in the heck are you doing? He’s like, I’m going to go find out who’s thrown the babies in the river.
26:18.62
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, who’s the other babies in the bar?
26:20.63
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
26:20.98
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, exactly.
26:21.23
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And so that kind of an idea of like, you’ve got to figure out, ah you you know, you’ve got to fix the processes and just upgrade so that you can really scale.
26:31.87
Lorie Jones
I’m a, I came up through the operations role. And so I am a big fan of that idea. And, and, and what you said kind of reminds me that that is an important piece of growth.
26:38.10
Lauren Cockerell
i
26:45.17
Lorie Jones
It’s not just something that you can forget and be just fine with. Right. Yeah.
26:48.87
Lauren Cockerell
Right. Yep. Yeah. So now in 2026, the business model looks a lot different. um You know, ah account service, account delivery, just the whole thing.
27:00.14
Lauren Cockerell
Like we’re ready now. ah
27:02.68
Lorie Jones
Now we can now we can explode.
27:03.99
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
27:04.16
Lorie Jones
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
27:05.35
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, yeah.
27:05.72
Lorie Jones
I love it. um If you could high five yourself for one really great financial decision throughout your journey, what would that be?
27:14.14
Lauren Cockerell
Ooh, goodness gracious. Okay. um So definitely that certification I mentioned earlier. So is that as far as like spending money, investing in that, you know, even even my husband’s like, that’s probably the best money you’ve ever spent in just like the the lasting impact.
27:23.63
Lorie Jones
hmm.
27:33.13
Lauren Cockerell
i actually just saw a bunch of my friends who I’d gone through certification with a couple weeks ago at a conference every a different conference, and it was just like, oh my God, it feels so good to be It’s like homecoming.
27:44.60
Lauren Cockerell
um ah And then as far as um you know piggybacking on this the the regret I had there, I’m much more attuned to the you know quarter the my quarterly tax burden and allocation, and I’m vigilantly monitoring that.
28:03.20
Lauren Cockerell
like that Again, that that that will not… I will not do that again.
28:06.49
Lorie Jones
It’s not going to be a surprise. will
28:08.26
Lauren Cockerell
um as as some of our friends say, ahds you you’re paying tuition for never going to do that again, university. So that’s my that’s my high five as far as savings go.
28:16.70
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
28:20.45
Lauren Cockerell
Spend was the certification. Save is making sure I’m i’m well on top of of our quarterly taxes.
28:27.70
Lorie Jones
Yeah, it’s hard. They don’t have a whole lot of resources for um new business owners because you you are you know, in the business of um publicity or telling your story or, you know, that sort of thing, you’re not in the business of like doing the books and doing the taxes and, and it’s really difficult.
28:42.38
Lauren Cockerell
Right. here
28:48.28
Lauren Cockerell
right
28:50.74
Lorie Jones
Those, those skills are difficult to obtain just throughout, you know, just by learning rather than by hard experiences.
29:00.70
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
29:00.79
Lauren Cockerell
Right. Yeah, I do. I have now fired myself from a lot of those roles. Like after I screwed up payroll a couple times and goofed on PTO things, i was like, you know what, guys, i this is a job I can no longer sit in this seat.
29:14.85
Lauren Cockerell
So now our director of operations and our fractional CFO team, they they handle all that. I’m like, run it by me. I’ll let you know if that it sounds good. But other than that, y’all are the right people for the job. I mean, this is not my special skills and talents.
29:27.27
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
29:27.70
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s I actually had a woman who said don’t do it’s a bookkeeper and she’s like, don’t do things you have no business doing.
29:34.68
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
29:34.85
Lorie Jones
She’s like, and you know, it’s a business owner like you have different things that you’re doing. It’s what I tell my my 401k clients all the time. I’m like, you are not in the business of understanding all the different rules of the 401k.
29:46.09
Lorie Jones
That’s why you hire people who can do that for you.
29:46.38
Lauren Cockerell
Right. Right.
29:48.30
Lorie Jones
you Yeah.
29:49.33
Lauren Cockerell
100%.
29:49.75
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
29:50.71
Lauren Cockerell
Yep.
29:50.78
Lorie Jones
i
29:50.99
Lauren Cockerell
Hire an expert, please.
29:52.31
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
29:52.31
Lauren Cockerell
ah
29:52.82
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I love that. I love that.
29:54.26
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
29:55.19
Lorie Jones
um What scared you the most when you started down your your path? And I don’t care where you decide the start is, but what scared you the most?
30:03.00
Lauren Cockerell
Okay. Yeah. I was, as far as just entrepreneurship, um I was terrified of employing people coming from a role where I was treated very poorly.
30:05.71
Lorie Jones
And does it help?
30:15.87
Lauren Cockerell
And then starting, I was like, it’s just gonna be me. I’m um ah a team of one. I’m not hiring anybody. well that quickly changed i had to i had ad contractors pretty quickly but even still i was terrified to do w-2 just like oh my gosh you know that’s i’ll have to make decisions and i will have to like take clients i don’t want to make payroll and you know i like i don’t want to be in a position where i’m making financial decisions just to you know because people are paying their mortgage because of me um
30:43.47
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
30:44.87
Lauren Cockerell
And as there was ah ah a man I was taking a classroom one time through through EO, and and he was like, just, you’re going to kiss a lot of frogs. Just get it over with. Just start doing it. ah um And it’s it’s still scary. Like, it it’s it’s it can be daunting at times, ah particularly as margins get thinner or, you know, if if, you know, you have client attrition. You know, the the market’s just been kind of weird the last 13 months or so. Yeah.
31:14.55
Lauren Cockerell
and It still kind of freaks me out a little bit because I’m, again, very loyal and I want to take good care of my team. But at the same time, it’s gotten a lot easier. and And to invest in people who are so great at what they do so that I can focus on what I’m great at is like, well, it’s a no brainer, you know?
31:30.65
Lauren Cockerell
And so it’s it’s just one of those one of other things. And, you know, building the team that I’ve built is one of my greatest joys in life and and greatest points of pride.
31:40.38
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
31:42.75
Lauren Cockerell
I have a friend of mine, we were talking about, you know, we each own our own agencies and um we were discussing how being a business owner and ah ah a boss has allowed us to be the most actualized versions of ourselves.
31:58.35
Lauren Cockerell
That like I’m truly who I was meant to be through owning this business and having this team and taking care of them and helping them become who they’re meant to be is is a is a truly great gift. And I don’t take their trust in me lightly. It’s it’s something i you know, it’s a point of pride. It’s a point of honor and it’s a gift.
32:19.32
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. I do. I spend a lot of time trying to help and grow and nurture um women in this industry, specifically in finance, because i love it so much.
32:26.21
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
32:29.08
Lorie Jones
But but that it does provide a lot of satisfaction. i i sometimes describe myself as a professional mother, because, you know, that is what it is.
32:35.60
Lauren Cockerell
Yes. Yes.
32:37.50
Lorie Jones
You’re helping them kind of grow into who they’re going to become. And that does any, um any tips or hints on places that you found um ways to to grow that team or so that you weren’t so scared of of hiring people and managing them?
32:56.13
Lauren Cockerell
Um, I’ll say the one that, you know, everybody says it’s, it’s easier to say, harder to do is hire slow, fire fast. i mean, that’s what everyone said. And it’s so true. when Anytime I’ve hired in haste, I’ve been burned. Um, and anytime I let something linger, it burned me too. so it’s just, you know, and to do it with humanity, of course. Um, but the, um,
33:21.75
Lauren Cockerell
I really appreciate it. the The podcast, Radical Candor, they have a book too, but the early years of the podcast really kind of helped define like, okay, you know, you have to give people feedback, but you can do it in a way that honors them as human beings.
33:36.90
Lauren Cockerell
You don’t have to be a jerk.
33:37.32
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
33:38.58
Lauren Cockerell
And so um that yeah book books like that, I mean, really, you know, Brene Brown, you know, there’s there’s a lot of people, yeah Kim Scott ah wrote Radical Candor, but there’s there’s a lot of there’s a lot of people out there that can give you some great advice.
33:53.49
Lauren Cockerell
But I think at the end of the day, um you know, just treating people how you want to be treated and and to know that, you know, they’re not going to, if they don’t know, they can’t improve.
34:06.37
Lauren Cockerell
And so, you know, treating them like adults. And if they aren’t acting like adults, then that’s also important data. ah
34:16.44
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. I like that idea. And it, it is important, I think to kind of, um I, I read something somewhere, I think it was the head of PepsiCo where she said, um you know, these, these people that you’re bringing in your organization, these are somebody’s like sons and daughters and, you know, as your sons and daughters, I know I’ve had that opportunity for my sons and daughters to go out into the workforce.
34:34.22
Lauren Cockerell
Beautiful.
34:39.44
Lorie Jones
And I just hope and pray that they find someone who will mentor and help and guide them along.
34:39.81
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
34:45.16
Lorie Jones
And, and I want to be that person for somebody else’s son or daughter, you know, to, to help them grow. And that, that sense of humanity that you’re talking about, but, and, and yes, sometimes you have to do hard things.
34:59.85
Lorie Jones
Sometimes you have to be very clear um and and deliver hard messages, but doing it with a sense of this is, you know, this is somebody else’s son or daughter is the only way I can think of it.
35:13.86
Lorie Jones
You know, there’s somebody else’s child who they want the very best for in the world.
35:14.14
Lauren Cockerell
Right.
35:17.50
Lorie Jones
Like I’m going to treat them with respect and kindness and whatever I do.
35:21.54
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, I love that.
35:23.03
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
35:23.50
Lauren Cockerell
It’s so true. And, you know, um one up a past client once said, um ah bad news ages like milk. um So it’s just like, you know, don’t don’t let it sit. Like whether they need to tell you something or you need to tell them something, like waiting doesn’t necessarily make it easier.
35:44.47
Lauren Cockerell
You know, it’s like, so we just got to rip off this bandaid and, and, you know, but you can be, you can, clarity is kind. um You know, don’t let them keep making the same mistake over just because you have like, and and that’s my ruinous empathy, you know, is something that I have to reckon with all the time.
35:52.12
Lorie Jones
right
36:00.41
Lauren Cockerell
So I’m like, oh, I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings. Like, no, they need to know. ah ah
36:04.92
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is a really delicate balance and hard to achieve sometimes. Yeah, I’ll give you that.
36:10.83
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
36:12.21
Lorie Jones
um What about throughout your journey? Did you face any unique challenges because you were a woman?
36:20.60
Lauren Cockerell
I think the biggest one, and this isn’t necessarily you know an external force, but more just conditioning, was just like, really have struggled to charge what I’m worth. yeah I’m much better at now, but even still, I’m probably way undercharging. you Even though I like continue to grow grow and add zeros, I was like,
36:44.54
Lauren Cockerell
And then someone will be like, oh, well, surely you’re charging, you know, five figures, not four. I’m like, oh, geez, Louise. Okay. um and And so, you know to continue to move up the food chain. but and But then we’ll get we’ll get feedback of like, oh, no, you’re you’re you’re too much. just it’s it’s it’s It’s hard.
37:04.91
Lauren Cockerell
But I think just as a woman, and I see this in other women starting their businesses, they’re like, you know, well, is $50 enough? Like, no, ma’am. Add, no, more zeros.
37:15.52
Lauren Cockerell
More. No, no, keep going. Keep adding. ah
37:20.09
Lorie Jones
I know, i know.
37:21.62
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
37:21.85
Lorie Jones
and it it is really difficult.
37:22.66
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm.
37:23.05
Lorie Jones
You kind of feel that um imposter syndrome, which is is pretty universal to our experience as women. A lot of times we feel like, gosh, I, you know, I want clients.
37:34.19
Lorie Jones
Should I just, and, and it’s hard to understand all that we bring to the table.
37:34.60
Lauren Cockerell
Absolutely.
37:40.54
Lauren Cockerell
her absolutely
37:44.28
Lorie Jones
What is the thing you are most proud of, Lauren?
37:49.45
Lauren Cockerell
On the work front, i cultivating and nurturing the team I have today and who are just so dang good at what they do.
38:02.33
Lauren Cockerell
i mean, there’re we really spent a lot of time over the last six months defining who we want to work with, you know, realizing that, you know, like the B2B space is where we want to play in. Like the more boring, the better. Like, holy cow, you give us the most boring topic. We’re going to make it so interesting. You won’t even believe it. Like, you know, just really honing our craft and like really owning like this is what we do and this is what we’re great at has been ah just such a a cool place to land, after especially after a hard, you know, 25 years.
38:32.66
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
38:33.14
Lauren Cockerell
and And to feel everyone gelling together and we’re all in this boat, much smaller boat, but that’s okay. You know, rowing together and and have our eye on the mission and doing that while raising really cool kids and to into you know, there was so much time that I just was looking outside of myself of like, okay, how do I run this business? What’s the right way, quote unquote, right way? It’s like, no, I get to decide and to, you know, finally fire myself from the jobs that didn’t make sense within the company so that I i can be present for, I’ve got an early middle schooler and an elementary school kiddo.
39:07.29
Lauren Cockerell
that I can pick them up from school and show them, you know, they’re involved in the business. They’re curious about my business. I love that. And and that’s just, you know, to to feel like things are are spinning the way they’re meant to be is is I’m very proud of. ah The other thing which sort of like, you know, if I have to tell like a fun fact about myself, um when I was 29, I hadn’t met my husband yet, I cashed in half my life savings and went to Italy by myself for a month and that was really cool.
39:35.93
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that would be awesome.
39:36.68
Lauren Cockerell
yeah
39:37.29
Lorie Jones
I’ll give you that.
39:37.37
Lauren Cockerell
ah ah There was a moment over the Atlantic Ocean where I looked out the window I was like, what am I doing? it’s something I had to do.
39:47.60
Lauren Cockerell
I didn’t want to, I wasn’t ready for the next phase of life until I had to, had to you know, check that off my list.
39:52.21
Lorie Jones
And a little adventure.
39:53.66
Lauren Cockerell
who Had to do it.
39:53.78
Lorie Jones
Yeah, that’s great.
39:55.61
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
39:55.77
Lorie Jones
And I bet you talk about it all the time now, too. Like that that’s part of your experience, built who you are.
39:59.77
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, it is. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s um it’s one of those things where it’s like you just you just gotta you just gotta like life is for the living. You know, I mean, I I said no to some trips early on in my career because i was like, no, they need me here.
40:09.14
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
40:16.02
Lauren Cockerell
They need me. And was like, no, that you, you can go on, you can go on the family vacation and, and still be a good, good team member. And, and I encourage my team all the time.
40:24.65
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
40:26.56
Lauren Cockerell
Like you’ve got to, you’ve got to go. If you’ve got a great opportunity like this, we we are more than work where we have many dimensions. We have, families and passions and lives and you know we’re this we’re were’re lucky to get to do work that I would you know we were put on this earth to do like that’s that’s really a huge gift but it’s not the only thing that we’re doing
40:47.61
Lorie Jones
yeah yeah I like the way you think of that too because I do like I love finance so to 10 but I do there are more pieces of me you know as the mom and as the yeah i do I do crazy things like spreadsheet organization which is super fun for me and not fun for anyone else but there are all those pieces of me too so
40:55.97
Lauren Cockerell
mm-hmm
41:06.22
Lauren Cockerell
yeah Yes, exactly.
41:12.38
Lorie Jones
Any advice for a young lady who’s kind of just starting down this path that you’re already so successful at that would help her get where you’re at one day?
41:20.62
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, you know, and it’s, I feel so much for our Gen Zers who are coming into the workplace right now with entry-level jobs kind of going by the wayside with this AI revolution because i had the opportunity to do everything at my first, you know when I was an intern in 2003, I just, i I did every aspect of the PR firm. I mean, I wouldn’t even sit next to the designer for hours and just watch them design to and better understand the elements and, you know, i’m sort of a like hobby artist, but to really understand branding and design.
41:55.77
Lauren Cockerell
And, and so if I had written a resume at that time, it would have been 10 pages long because I got to try everything.
41:56.13
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
42:02.06
Lauren Cockerell
And I think if you have the opportunity, raise your hand and ask to try everything, even if just sitting and watching or just, you know, like find a place where it’s safe to, to fail at something where it’s like, you know, when we have our interns, um, like, yeah, I mean, if nothing’s going out without the client or Westy, like nothing’s going to climb without us looking at it. Nothing’s hitting the wire without us, you know, like just, just try it. Just, just,
42:27.22
Lauren Cockerell
put put your whole butt into it and try it. I i think that’s that’s how you learn what you love and what you hate. And knowing what you hate is really important. you know It helps you, like, as you go further and further of your career, it’s like, what are your non-negotiables?
42:41.38
Lauren Cockerell
What don’t you want to do anymore? Kind of start, when you’re starting out, you’re like, oh, I don’t want to do that. Like, well, how do you know? Like, you really got to try. ah Yeah, exactly.
42:47.47
Lorie Jones
it yet? You might find it fun.
42:50.58
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah, um and so so try as much as you can to really figure out like what’s that unique combination of of what you’re really bringing to the marketplace. um and And that’s how you really become competitive and how you can really start to negotiate as you, you know And as you go to these job interviews or if you’re starting your company and you’re talking to clients, it’s like, what is the value you’re offering? It’s not just the thing you’re going to do, but like what problem are you really going to solve? What is the solution going to look like? How are you going to transform your employer or your client’s life? And you you get to know that by by doing by trying so many things. um And then my final piece of advice is just take that PTO.
43:31.13
Lorie Jones
Yes, use it every year. Yeah, for sure.
43:33.41
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
43:35.06
Lorie Jones
ah yeah Because it… Actually, my um my team used to hate it when I’d go on vacation because it would be the only time I’d have time to like sit and think.
43:45.11
Lorie Jones
And I came up with such great ideas.
43:45.43
Lauren Cockerell
ah yeah yeah Yes, I know. I told my team, i was like, i my goal is for you to um be excited for me to leave town.
43:56.66
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
43:57.11
Lauren Cockerell
And I’m finally at a place where I can i can leave my laptop behind. and The team is ready, you know it’s which is really exciting. you know like the The clients love working with them. and and sos But the thing is, it expires and you know you can’t you can’t pour from an empty cup.
44:13.83
Lauren Cockerell
You have to have to take care of yourself.
44:14.33
Lorie Jones
li
44:16.22
Lauren Cockerell
You You need to rest and rejuvenate and refresh. and if you just want to sit in your house, that’s fine. I don’t care. But you need to you need to not come to work for a couple of days.
44:24.44
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. And, and it, it is important to, it was just so clear to me when I moved from my last position that, that I put like vacation time, like time that I couldn’t get back.
44:39.32
Lorie Jones
you know, into a job.
44:39.83
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm.
44:42.49
Lorie Jones
um And even if it was something that i love doing, i you still need to have that break.
44:43.43
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm.
44:50.66
Lorie Jones
I think that, I think that doesn’t get said enough, Lauren.
44:51.02
Lauren Cockerell
Right.
44:53.54
Lorie Jones
So I’m really glad you brought that up.
44:56.47
Lauren Cockerell
You’re welcome. Yeah, no, it’s, I alluded to it ah when I was in my early 20s. I’m working at this PR firm. I’m having the best time. and I love work so much. I’m working late, late, late.
45:07.58
Lauren Cockerell
I’m just, you know, I’ve got nothing else going on. i just want to work and learn, and this this feels good. And my my family invited me to go to Australia, and I was like, oh, I don’t know. Some other people are taking vacations. i don’t I don’t think I can go.
45:18.89
Lauren Cockerell
And I didn’t go to Australia. And have we been Australia since? No. You know, it was this unique opportunity, and I declined it out of,
45:23.32
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
45:26.04
Lauren Cockerell
out of, you know, from a good place, like loyalty and diligence and and honor. But guess what? While my family was in Australia and a couple other people were out at this agency, everything was fine. they I was not operating on any hearts. Like it would have been okay. um and so you know i i appreciate those who work hard for me and our clients um but yeah you you deserve rest it’s not it’s not something that you have to earn it it is something that that you it’s part of your employment contract and and you know it the a couple it was like last year or the year before where a woman died at her bank job and she just like sat they didn’t even notice she was gone for like
46:06.37
Lauren Cockerell
couple days yeah yeah it was it was in the news think it was wells fargo sorry wells fargo but um and that’s just like ladies take your pto ah so you know they’re like they’re sad that was a bummer they you know they wheeled her out and then you know they filled the position again so um you know we just gotta we gotta balance we gotta balance it um you know there’s there’s seasons of
46:06.44
Lorie Jones
Oh my gosh, serious?
46:31.81
Lauren Cockerell
hard work, but then we got to make sure that we’re we’re pouring into ourselves because life is short. Retirement’s not guaranteed. the The veil from here to there is gossamer thin. So we just got to make sure that we’re living our life the best we can.
46:48.31
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. And, and it’s something that I bring into what I do as well. You know, when I’m always talking about like retirement and blah, blah, blah.
46:55.20
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm.
46:55.43
Lorie Jones
And i have to remind people I’m like, like, live, live while you’re living life to don’t just
46:59.70
Lauren Cockerell
Mm-hmm.
47:01.14
Lorie Jones
save for tomorrow, like, and which is, you know, what I’m, I’m supposed to be saying, do nothing but save.
47:02.87
Lauren Cockerell
Yeah.
47:07.01
Lauren Cockerell
Thank you.
47:07.76
Lorie Jones
So, so the fact is, we we talk a lot about that. And I think that’s really an important um thing to bring up is that you have to have a life today that you are enjoying and that you’re building and that you’re pouring into yourself and you’re really growing.
47:22.39
Lorie Jones
Thank you so, so much, Lauren, for your time today and for your advice and for sharing your journey with us.
47:25.60
Lauren Cockerell
like you
47:28.79
Lorie Jones
If I have a young lady who wants to get in touch with you and ask some questions, how does she do that?
47:34.39
Lauren Cockerell
Yep. So LinkedIn is great. I’m very active over there. You can definitely send me a DM or you can email me at hello at Kwee.co and I’m happy to chat. Many wonderful women hung a lantern for me on this path. And so I i love to hang mine and help help the next generation.
47:51.64
Lorie Jones
Well, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.
47:55.06
Lauren Cockerell
My pleasure. Thank you.