In this episode, your host Lorie Jones sits down with trailblazer Kathleen Godfrey, founder of Godfrey Financial Associates, whose career journey is a masterclass in grit and ambition.
From being widowed and downsized to building her own independent firm in finance that is a traditionally a male-dominated field, Kathleen reveals how she shattered industry barriers and found strength in adversity. Hear what happens when she’s told over and over again that working with women won’t succeed, and how she proves the doubters wrong with decades of growth and impact.
Kathleen shares powerful lessons about investing in yourself, standing your ground, and building a support network that actually gets you. For all growth-minded women determined to take charge of their future, Kathleen offers fresh perspective and encouragement. Get ready for wisdom, wit, and the inspiration to show up fiercely in business and life!
Show Highlights:
- Four influential non-fiction books to inform your journey. [03:40]
- How has your curiosity about money converted into choices? [06:12]
- Discover the powerful Dale Carnegie Training “SW-SW-SW-SW” tactic. [10:22]
- Benefits of independent financial planners vs. large firms. [16:34]
- Rising above sexism and figurative and financial overrides. [18:19]
- Why do widows and divorced women fire financial advisors? [21:42]
- The importance of hiring help early. [25:30]
- Hiring and firing advice and life’s underpinning of dignity. [30:31]
- Is finance overtly resistant to women with no spouses? [38:32]
- Where successful women can direct their philanthropy. [41:59]
- Key steps for young women to build successful careers. [47:42]
Connect with Kathleen Godfrey on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleengodfrey/.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.46
Lorie Jones
Good morning, fearless females. So I have Kathleen Godfrey with us today. She is the founder of Godfrey Financial Associates. And I have to let you know that I’ve actually quietly been stalking Kathleen for like months now. I i look at all her posts. She’s just so empowering towards women. And she she has such good messages. I’m really excited to get to talk to you about ah about what you…
00:29.37
Lorie Jones
your journey and how you came to to be where you are Kathleen and just like some of the the more empowering things that you see in finances for women so thank you so much for taking the time
00:43.56
Kathleen Godfrey
It’s my pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.
00:47.35
Lorie Jones
so my first question is always the same I’m a reader i love any and all suggestions what is your favorite book
00:55.83
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, that’s a good question. I have four books listed that I have read multiple times. They’re all nonfiction. So the first is called The Power Code by Katie Kay and Claire Shipman.
01:11.93
Kathleen Godfrey
Just a great read. um Years ago, maybe 10, 15 years ago, I met Kathleen Burns Kingsbury for the first time and she had just written a book, How to Give Financial Advice to Women.
01:27.39
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
01:27.67
Kathleen Godfrey
And I remember reading it thinking, she wrote this about me. It was great. And I have since given copies of it away to male colleagues of mine.
01:38.90
Kathleen Godfrey
um Another book that I’ve read multiple times Steven Pressfield, The War of Art, not to be confused with The Art of War.
01:50.23
Kathleen Godfrey
The War of Art. It’s a quick read. it’ll It’s a life-changing book. And then Simon Sinek, Start With Why. Excuse me. um The whole thesis of the book. People don’t care what you do. They care why you do it.
02:09.85
Kathleen Godfrey
So…
02:10.17
Lorie Jones
And why it matters to them. I love that. And I i love Kathleen Burns Kingsbury. She was awesome and is a neat lady.
02:17.49
Kathleen Godfrey
She is awesome.
02:18.81
Lorie Jones
Yeah, just really cool things to say.
02:20.34
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah.
02:21.92
Lorie Jones
Simon Sinek is one of my favorites. I just love, he’s got such a way of of helping you see the human in everyone around you. You know, not just a lot of times you get so focused on, you know, growing your business and making things better and stuff like that.
02:39.10
Lorie Jones
You forget there are actual people involved in helping you get where you’re going and and taking the time to really focus on those people and and help grow them as well, I think is super important.
02:44.25
Kathleen Godfrey
Exactly.
02:51.14
Lorie Jones
And especially to those of us
02:51.64
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah, and I think when you when you lose your why, I think you’ve really lost your way.
02:58.97
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. And especially to those of us that that are interested in in empowering and helping women, a lot of times we surround ourselves with women in our work too.
03:01.02
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah.
03:10.33
Lorie Jones
and And remembering that we need to we need to put conscious effort into growing them, right?
03:16.54
Kathleen Godfrey
Exactly.
03:17.88
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I love those suggestions. I’ve read some of them, but some of them are on my list now. Yeah.
03:23.42
Kathleen Godfrey
Okay.
03:25.22
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about your journey. How did you get where you are today? What do you do? Did you know you wanted to be a financial advisor when you were two? Like, I always am curious as to how people came into this.
03:33.94
Kathleen Godfrey
No, no, no. But I will say at a very young age, i was intrigued by money and what it could do and what it meant.
03:44.78
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
03:46.55
Kathleen Godfrey
And, um, So yeah, I’ve worked with money my whole professional life. I was a senior budget analyst for the state of New York. um which sounds It sounds more impressive than it was.
04:02.53
Kathleen Godfrey
I was i loved what I did.
04:02.94
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
04:05.99
Kathleen Godfrey
and I worked in the education department. So when a school district wanted to issue a bond, I was on the team that went down to Wall Street and we met with bond underwriters and i was fascinated by the whole municipal finance angle and and how things are financed in the public sector.
04:31.03
Kathleen Godfrey
using private money.
04:31.00
Lorie Jones
hu
04:33.24
Kathleen Godfrey
Very interesting. Anyway, I did that for a while. And then I got downsized. I had been recently widowed. I had was a single mom.
04:44.17
Kathleen Godfrey
I had two kids and I got downsized.
04:48.02
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
04:48.31
Kathleen Godfrey
And it was jarring to say the least. And I thought, holy crap, you know I got a mortgage and kids to feed and I’ve got to figure out what ah my next act is. And it occurred to me that having been widowed, it’s it’s a pretty scary journey and I could help other women make better decisions.
05:18.26
Kathleen Godfrey
And what I learned was nobody teaches us about money. I mean, whatever you know about money, you learn probably from your parents. They learned from their parents and they learned from their parents and they learned from their parents. And if we go all the way back to when we were trading, you know, goats and camels and wampum and shells and beads, it’s a means to an end.
05:42.94
Kathleen Godfrey
But most people don’t really understand how money works. And I had a good grasp of how money works. And I thought, If I never try this, I’ll always regret regret that I didn’t try. So I literally hung out a shingle in 1996. This is my 30th anniversary in business. And I thought um if I don’t try, like I said, I’ll i’ll regret it forever. So very humble beginnings.
06:14.68
Kathleen Godfrey
um Very humble beginnings.
06:18.47
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
06:19.10
Kathleen Godfrey
But here we are 30 later. They’ll go in small.
06:24.10
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. That’s a really scary place to be with two mouths to feed and a mortgage and saying, did you know what you wanted?
06:30.17
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah.
06:33.33
Lorie Jones
Like, did you take the test? it still the series? Mm-hmm. was it theella the series
06:37.59
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, I found out that I needed to be licensed and i you know, I got all my licensing under, under my belt and I had a choice to make.
06:40.95
Lorie Jones
i mean
06:47.66
Kathleen Godfrey
I could either join an insurance company or an existing firm. or I could do it myself.
06:56.33
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
06:56.38
Kathleen Godfrey
And I interviewed at a bunch of firms and they were as bureaucratic as the state of New York was in terms of, you know, and i thought, you know what, I’m going to try it on my own because, you know, I have an MBA, I’ve studied business. I’ve, I, I,
07:21.94
Kathleen Godfrey
How hard could it be? i thought.
07:26.46
Kathleen Godfrey
How hard can this be? Surely I’m going to have clients and prospective clients lining up down the street to get in my doors. And yeah, that didn’t quite work out the way I envisioned. It it occurred to me very early on.
07:44.82
Kathleen Godfrey
I have to go find some clients.
07:46.89
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
07:47.26
Kathleen Godfrey
How the hell am I going to do that? Oh my God, I have to pitch myself. I have to sell myself. I have to, I don’t know how to do that. And so, one of the very best decisions I did, i made in the very beginning was i enrolled in the Dale Carnegie training.
08:08.38
Kathleen Godfrey
And, uh, because really my sales experience up until that point was Earl Scout cookies. And, you know, I was pretty good at it, but this was a whole different situation. So I every Friday morning from 8 to 10 a.m., I was at the Dale Carnegie training for I think it was a whole year.
08:33.72
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
08:34.36
Kathleen Godfrey
And we had, a you know, group left group um exercises and then a one on one coach. And I learned how to stand up in front of total strangers and describe my vision and what I did and how I could help them. And, you know, as time went on, I got better at it.
08:55.64
Kathleen Godfrey
And I remember my sales coach, really nice guy. His name was Neil. And he said, i want you to take a post-it note.
09:08.44
Kathleen Godfrey
And on a post-it note, I want you to write exactly this. S W S W S W S W next.
09:24.95
Kathleen Godfrey
I said, okay, what the hell does that mean?
09:26.84
Lorie Jones
And
09:29.78
Kathleen Godfrey
he said, you really need to get this. Some will, some won’t. So what? Someone’s waiting next.
09:40.73
Kathleen Godfrey
He said, because you’re going to meet a lot of people. And some will want to work with you and some won’t. And so what? Someone’s waiting to meet you. And it never, ever occurred to me that someone was actually waiting to meet me.
09:55.31
Kathleen Godfrey
But it helped me kind of weed through people who, and i’m I’m sure you know that, the people who can’t say no and they string you along.
10:07.02
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
10:07.86
Kathleen Godfrey
Oh yeah, I do want to meet with you.
10:10.14
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
10:10.55
Kathleen Godfrey
ah Maybe next month or Let me talk to my spouse or, you know, and and they string me along because they can’t say no. And I got better at getting people to say no.
10:22.65
Kathleen Godfrey
And I would say, you know, if this isn’t a good fit, just say so.
10:22.68
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
10:26.83
Kathleen Godfrey
It’s all right.
10:27.96
Lorie Jones
yeah
10:28.05
Kathleen Godfrey
There’s someone waiting. And in the back of my mind, I kept that thought, someone’s waiting to meet me. And anyway, I went through this training and I became more a lot a lot more confident And, you know, presenting myself to people and meeting with prospective clients and, you know, I had very humble beginnings.
10:52.65
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Did you find, i found that sometimes the sales tactics they use, there’s a lot of a people that look very similar in our industry.
11:04.28
Kathleen Godfrey
Oh yeah.
11:04.40
Lorie Jones
They’re usually not us. They’re usually older white male men and they,
11:09.88
Kathleen Godfrey
They’re male. They’re male, pale and stale.
11:11.16
Lorie Jones
Yeah. ah I’ve heard that one before. And, and I’ve, I find that a lot of the sales tactics that they use don’t work for me because I’m not salesy.
11:23.10
Lorie Jones
I’m, I’m more educational.
11:23.70
Kathleen Godfrey
Right. Neither am i Neither am i
11:25.56
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Did, did, did you find any, um, yeah I don’t know, just inconsistencies in the sales training you were getting given, or did you find that it worked?
11:34.71
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, I didn’t get any sales training because I was completely independent.
11:35.50
Lorie Jones
You’d oh
11:40.70
Kathleen Godfrey
And so i didn’t have, um, I don’t really know what sales training looks like outside of this Dale Carnegie thing that I did.
11:53.32
Kathleen Godfrey
Um, it was, mean, it’s really pretty generic.
11:53.57
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
11:59.90
Kathleen Godfrey
There were people from all different industries that took this course. Um, but I do remember the sales coach saying to me, one of the problems with financial services professionals is you give it away.
12:15.10
Kathleen Godfrey
You give it away all the time. You go through a whole presentation with a prospective client. You do a whole proposal, an asset allocation and and a financial plan. And then just as you’re halfway through presenting it, the prospective client says, oh, did did I mention my brother-in-law just started at Merrill?
12:37.91
Kathleen Godfrey
So this is great, but I kind of promised him I would give him the business. And, you know, and and you’re left kind of like, oh, okay.
12:51.58
Kathleen Godfrey
Gee, that was a waste of time. And so this this trainer said to me, you should charge for your time. Your time is valuable.
12:59.55
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
13:00.34
Kathleen Godfrey
And if people want the benefit of your expertise, you should have them pay for it. And so from the beginning I did that. And so if someone decided they weren’t going to follow through and implement their financial plan using me or my services, at least I knew i got paid and it did a lot to kind of boost my, my self-confidence and how much I valued what I did.
13:32.06
Kathleen Godfrey
um, I, and we’re still, we still charge. of consulting fees.
13:37.98
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. And be because you’re right, it is a lot of work and, and putting together a financial plan and having them go, yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m not really interested in using our DIY.
13:53.34
Lorie Jones
That’s what I love. I could do this myself.
13:54.46
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah, yeah, I could do it myself, but thanks for giving me the the template.
13:55.46
Lorie Jones
im like ah
14:01.82
Lorie Jones
So um Kathleen, tell me we talked a little bit about the investment that you made in the in the training. Was that the best investment that you’ve made in yourself?
14:12.62
Lorie Jones
Or is there something else you can think of that was like, oh my gosh.
14:14.52
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, that’s one of the best. The other one is bought after renting commercial space, I bought a building and that was a really smart move.
14:22.89
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
14:26.93
Kathleen Godfrey
Um, and I’ve spent 30 years investing in myself.
14:32.87
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
14:33.62
Kathleen Godfrey
And so when there’s a seminar or a training opportunity, I made sure to to take advantage of that.
14:44.06
Kathleen Godfrey
And i got a lot of different perspectives, not the MetLife perspective or the New York Life perspective or the Merrill Lynch perspective or the UBS perspective. I got ah a good, I think, more rounded perspective.
15:02.33
Kathleen Godfrey
Because i did I didn’t have a big corporate um company behind me.
15:12.31
Kathleen Godfrey
And that, I think, has served me well.
15:12.50
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
15:15.06
Lorie Jones
Yeah, it’s more independent. So you’re able to take the best ideas from the industry.
15:22.58
Kathleen Godfrey
Yes. Yes. So…
15:25.37
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah, that’s, I like that. ah You know, obviously, that’s where I come from to that independent space. But I like the idea of not having to meet a quota that interferes with what your clients really need.
15:34.20
Kathleen Godfrey
who
15:41.53
Kathleen Godfrey
Right. And not being beholden to any big corporate entity. You know, that, that to me, because I know a lot of, um, a lot of these companies, every January 1st, you’ve got your quotas.
15:48.01
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
15:58.20
Kathleen Godfrey
If you want to keep your desk and your phone and your assistant, this is how much you need to produce.
15:58.36
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
16:04.41
Kathleen Godfrey
And that’s a little daunting in the beginning of every year.
16:10.46
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
16:10.65
Kathleen Godfrey
So,
16:11.48
Lorie Jones
Yeah. um What about the worst advice someone ever gave you? Have you ever gotten some really bad advice?
16:17.11
Kathleen Godfrey
oh my goodness. Oh yeah. So, ah I joined the Financial Planning Association of Northeastern New York early on.
16:29.08
Kathleen Godfrey
And, you know, I was, would go to their monthly meetings and there was one gentleman there. His name is Frank. And every month he would say to me, you’re never going to make it Godfrey.
16:43.83
Kathleen Godfrey
You don’t know what you’re doing. You should come and work in my organization. I’ll show you how it’s done month.
16:50.18
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
16:51.10
Kathleen Godfrey
after months, after months, after months. This is what I heard. You’re working with women. They don’t have any money. You’re never going to make it.
17:01.85
Kathleen Godfrey
And I just remember thinking, you’re a jerk. You’re such a jerk. And, um, You know, i somebody said to me he wants to ride on your coattails. He sees that you’re a rising star and he wants to work.
17:23.67
Kathleen Godfrey
He wants you to work for him so that he can take a big override. And I said, what what the hell is an override? I didn’t even know the
17:32.55
Lorie Jones
yeah
17:33.62
Kathleen Godfrey
And they said, oh, well, you’re going to bring in a dollar of revenue and he’s going to take about 40 or 50 cents of that and you’re going to get the rest. And I thought, huh, why would I do that?
17:48.22
Kathleen Godfrey
yeah so That doesn’t. But then I learned that’s the the the industry. That’s very typical. You know, you join a firm and for every dollar you bring in, they take.
18:01.60
Kathleen Godfrey
20, 30, 50 cents, and they give you what’s left. And then from what’s left, you’re expected to pay your assistant.
18:04.95
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
18:09.96
Kathleen Godfrey
You’re expected to pay your overhead. And so you’re making someone else wealthy. i don’t know. I thought I’m going to take a chance on me and see how wealthy I can make me.
18:25.40
Kathleen Godfrey
And it did take a while. Like I said, I didn’t have any company training or, you know, at a training department. My learning curve was longer and steeper than it probably would have been.
18:41.85
Kathleen Godfrey
But at the end of the day, i knew that what I had created was all mine. And there’s nothing quite as um rewarding and gratifying as, as knowing that.
18:59.19
Kathleen Godfrey
So, but yeah, I heard if I had a dollar for every time a man said to me, you’ll never make it, uh, I’d be very, very wealthy.
19:00.25
Lorie Jones
Yeah. and
19:11.02
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I find it interesting that they’re like, well, women don’t have money.
19:16.22
Kathleen Godfrey
Right. Right, except now they all got the memo. You know, they all got the memo from, ah you know, all the studies that have been done and the McKinsey study that came out.
19:20.70
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
19:28.01
Kathleen Godfrey
Like, dudes, women have money.
19:31.38
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
19:31.74
Kathleen Godfrey
You really need to start paying attention.
19:31.99
Lorie Jones
And yeah, maybe.
19:34.34
Kathleen Godfrey
And how long have they been shouting this? Like, decades.
19:40.28
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
19:40.66
Kathleen Godfrey
Decades.
19:41.11
Lorie Jones
Talking over, talking around, not not paying attention to her voice.
19:41.22
Kathleen Godfrey
And, right, right.
19:49.11
Kathleen Godfrey
Exactly. i did a presentation to a group of advisors a couple of years ago about how to communicate with women so they won’t leave you.
19:50.88
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
20:02.17
Kathleen Godfrey
And ah seriously, the men in the audience were dumbfounded when I told them, yeah, within a year of becoming widowed or divorced, about 80% of women are going to fire their advisor.
20:19.99
Kathleen Godfrey
And where do you think they’re going? They’re coming to people like me, you know, and I’ve got an all female team and I’ve been widowed.
20:24.87
Lorie Jones
Right. Mm-hmm.
20:30.07
Kathleen Godfrey
I’ve been divorced. I’ve got a certified divorce financial analyst. I’ve, you know, we’ve been on these journeys and there’s a different kind of empathy that you bring to the table that a lot of men don’t get.
20:49.30
Kathleen Godfrey
And some of them to their credit have changed their approach, but most of them have not.
20:59.16
Lorie Jones
Yeah, it’s really hard to discuss finance with people that don’t make you feel comfortable.
20:59.26
Kathleen Godfrey
So.
21:04.76
Lorie Jones
It’s a really hard subject to to talk about.
21:05.46
Kathleen Godfrey
Right. Right.
21:09.02
Lorie Jones
And if you’re talking about it with someone who’s spouting numbers and statistics at you rather than than trying to understand what you really need, it’s it’s a really difficult place to be in and uncomfortable as a woman.
21:17.26
Kathleen Godfrey
Mm-hmm.
21:22.42
Kathleen Godfrey
It is. And frankly, if and this kind of circles back to the Simon Sinek, your why. if you’re going to explain something to me with an 18 page report full with graphs and charts and technical data, how about you just look me in the eye and say, gee, you’re not going to make it.
21:36.83
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
21:45.43
Kathleen Godfrey
Or yes, you are going to make it. But if I’m not going to make it, if if I’m not on track Tell me how to get on track in plain English.
21:56.42
Kathleen Godfrey
I’m not, I’m a pretty well-educated woman, but when you start using all the jargon and the the industry speak, it makes it difficult to connect as a human being.
21:56.54
Lorie Jones
yeah
22:09.72
Kathleen Godfrey
And, uh, I think that’s what women are looking for, a human being.
22:10.01
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
22:14.10
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yes. Someone that cares about them and understands where they’re coming from and understands we as women, truly, we haven’t been given a whole lot of um information in the financial space. I mean, like we weren’t even allowed to own credit under our name until, you know, 50 years ago. So it just,
22:37.30
Lorie Jones
there The system wasn’t set up to help us. and and And now we’re opting out of that system into, you know, I want to talk with someone who looks like me, acts like me, has been through what I’ve been through.
22:53.53
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, the whole financial world was built by men and it was built for men.
23:00.31
Kathleen Godfrey
And now that women are players, it it’s very slow to evolve.
23:06.61
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Yeah. What about a do-over? Kathleen, if you can kind of think back to something like a situation along your path or along your career that you would like 100% go back and do again differently if you had the knowledge that you have today. Obviously, if we went back and did it you know, with the same knowledge, we do it the same way. But is there somewhere that that would help our listeners kind of think, oh, you know, that didn’t work for her, but this might.
23:43.54
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, I would do, ah yeah yeah, a few things differently. If I could go back, I would hire an assistant much earlier than I did.
23:51.99
Lorie Jones
Oh.
23:53.75
Kathleen Godfrey
Um, you know, money was tight and I was nervous about cashflow and I took me a while to hire somebody.
23:53.75
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
24:05.12
Kathleen Godfrey
Um, And I learned that, you know, you really do need to take some risks if you’re going to be in business and there’s nothing guaranteed. Um, I, I would have hired somebody earlier.
24:20.95
Kathleen Godfrey
I had the w the way to do it. I did have a line of credit open and available to me, but I guess I was always afraid of going into debt.
24:32.02
Kathleen Godfrey
Um, But I had the leverage and I didn’t use it. So, you know, if I could go back, I would have i would have done something earlier.
24:45.11
Lorie Jones
probably would have helped your trajectory you’re thinking like it would have helped you grow faster
24:48.73
Kathleen Godfrey
oh yeah. And and i I think I had all those, you know, that you’ll never make it voices in my head that, you know, I just, I mean, there is a… a a fun outcome to that whole thing. So so after many years, like 10 years, I was, i won a big award.
25:13.72
Kathleen Godfrey
um
25:14.99
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
25:15.03
Kathleen Godfrey
My local chamber of commerce has this woman of excellence awards luncheon every year and i won and i it was really exhilarating and very affirming.
25:31.80
Kathleen Godfrey
And I flew by 80, my mother was 85 at the time. I flew her in my my kids were there and I’m up on stage and I’m giving my acceptance speech.
25:44.41
Kathleen Godfrey
And I look out into the crowd, 650 people were at this event. And I look out into the crowd and honest to God, there’s Frank. There’s Frank in the audience.
25:57.43
Kathleen Godfrey
And we locked eyes for, don’t know, two or three seconds. And I got to tell you, it was a delicious moment. The guy who told me for years that I would never make it.
26:10.58
Kathleen Godfrey
And I thought, huh, this feels really good.
26:17.18
Lorie Jones
did I did. did it. Yeah, that’s it. It’s really hard to drown out those voices because because you’re feeding them to yourself as well. Not only are you getting them from outside people, but you’re like, what if I don’t make it? What if I’m not good enough? What if, you know, blah, blah, blah. So how did you how did you find ways to.
26:36.60
Lorie Jones
m Drown out those the naysayers.
26:40.33
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, I started just, I don’t know, how did I stop the voices? i just, yeah I found a couple of mentors who were trustworthy people and they were not in the financial world.
26:54.32
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
26:58.84
Lorie Jones
him
26:59.16
Kathleen Godfrey
Um, but they, they gave me some good advice about how to tune out that negative, that negativity. Um, I, I started, um, hanging out with more women in the financial world.
27:16.24
Kathleen Godfrey
I joined WIFS, Women in Financial Services. I got very involved in that organization. And it was it was very validating to to be with other women who were experiencing exactly what I was experiencing.
27:24.73
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
27:33.78
Kathleen Godfrey
um You know, that the the sexism and the misogyny that is so prevalent in the financial services world.
27:45.18
Kathleen Godfrey
You know, but in the beginning, I didn’t have any sponsors or mentors and no one to show me the ropes. I didn’t understand a lot of how it worked. And I’ve just, over the years, I’ve just learned that the financial services world is really run by a lot of mostly mediocre white men and they don’t have a clue.
28:10.49
Kathleen Godfrey
And I just said, I’m going to forge my own way. I, I know what the compliance rules are. I know, you know, the, the, um, the, um, guardrails that I have to stay inside. And if I don’t try it, I’m always going to regret that I didn’t, you know, I might crash and burn, but like I said, if I never tried, i would always regret not trying.
28:37.14
Kathleen Godfrey
So.
28:39.70
Lorie Jones
And now what you said 30 years later?
28:42.77
Kathleen Godfrey
30 years later.
28:44.31
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
28:45.18
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah. And we, we actually have a waiting list of, of potential clients. So that’s, that’s very gratifying.
28:56.32
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. So I like asking this question to non-financial people, but I’m very interested in what your answer is. If you could high-five yourself for a really great past financial decision, what would it be?
29:11.53
Kathleen Godfrey
Hmm. Um, well, I alluded to this already buying a commercial building that that was a good financial move, but hiring a team of rock stars. I literally have a team of rock stars.
29:27.99
Kathleen Godfrey
I learned how to hire slow and fire fast. And that took some doing.
29:33.47
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
29:35.38
Kathleen Godfrey
Um, but when it’s not a good fit, it’s not a good fit. And trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, you’re frustrating yourself and you’re frustrating the employee. So learning how to, um, bring people on slowly, take my time.
29:54.14
Kathleen Godfrey
And if it’s not a good fit, end it quickly.
29:59.99
Lorie Jones
okay Yeah, that’s that is a really, you something that people don’t tell you about going into an entrepreneurial type business, you know, going into business for yourself is that is that you can do the work really, really well.
30:14.00
Lorie Jones
But part of it is you have to know how to manage the business, how to hire people, how to manage people, how to work well with others, how to inspire and grow a team.
30:21.17
Kathleen Godfrey
Right.
30:27.49
Lorie Jones
Like that’s part of what you do.
30:28.31
Kathleen Godfrey
hmm.
30:29.33
Lorie Jones
And it’s a big part.
30:31.74
Kathleen Godfrey
It is. And you you also have to stand for something. You really do. You got to stand for something. And i I try to ask that of people. You know what do you stand for?
30:46.90
Kathleen Godfrey
and for me personally and professionally i stand for dignity and freedom and there’s no dignity when you’re not financially stable in your life and there’s no freedom in that so if you want dignity and freedom you got to have your financial ducks in a row if you will you’ve got to know where you’re going and
31:01.88
Lorie Jones
yeah
31:12.15
Kathleen Godfrey
That dovetails so beautifully with what I do every day is to bring people to have the sense of dignity and freedom in their lives.
31:25.17
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, exactly. that the i always say that the your financial life underpins all of everything that you do. It underpins how you how you raise your family, how you show up at work, how you, you know, any of those things.
31:41.82
Kathleen Godfrey
who
31:41.88
Lorie Jones
So what scared you the most when you started it out And I’m anxious about having you pick just one thing because you started out with like in a scary place.
31:56.50
Kathleen Godfrey
so
31:57.25
Lorie Jones
Like everything would scare me if I started where you did. But but does it still scare you?
32:00.79
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah, well, I, I, a lot of stuff scared me. Um, I remember the very first day on the job. It was little hokey, but, you know, i put my key in the door.
32:14.47
Kathleen Godfrey
I had rented a small office and I put my key in the door and I said this little prayer.
32:17.84
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
32:21.78
Kathleen Godfrey
said, dear God, please, please make sure there’s a safety net and please make sure someone’s holding it. and And with that, i you know, came into my office And for me, what, what scared me was, um, after three years of working very hard, um, I took all of my financial stuff to my CPA and she looked at it and she said to me, Kathleen, I just have one question.
32:46.15
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
33:01.14
Kathleen Godfrey
Is this a hobby or a business? And I said, what? She said, how many years are we gonna go into the IRS with negative numbers?
33:14.04
Kathleen Godfrey
And it was jarring. It was it it really shook me.
33:19.40
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
33:20.70
Kathleen Godfrey
And I thought, I have been working so hard. You have no idea. She said, it doesn’t show.
33:30.26
Kathleen Godfrey
And i I got in my car, I cried all the way home. And I thought there were just three words. I’ll show her.
33:42.04
Kathleen Godfrey
I’ll show her. This is no effing hobby. I’ll show her. And i something switched, something really switched in me. And I don’t even remember Lori, if I, if I had to remember exactly one thing I did, but I just started,
34:02.04
Kathleen Godfrey
thinking I’m going to show her, I’ll show her. yes
34:05.80
Lorie Jones
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
34:06.17
Kathleen Godfrey
And I went to see her after the fourth year. And she said, let me call you in a couple of weeks. And she called me and she said, what happened?
34:21.91
Kathleen Godfrey
I said, what do you mean what happened? I said, you made me so angry and so upset. i All I could think about was I’ll show her. And she kind of laughed a little and she said, well, you did show me.
34:35.93
Kathleen Godfrey
Wow, what a year. She said, now you better sit down because I have some news.
34:38.13
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
34:42.28
Kathleen Godfrey
She said, you owe the IRS money. You finished in the black. Now you got to pay taxes. And I went, wow, I was so excited. And I remember standing in line at the post office. This is way before e-filing.
34:59.73
Kathleen Godfrey
And the post office was open late on April 15th. And I stood in line and I had my envelope with my check and I was so proud of myself. And about a week later, she said, you know, you should really think about incorporating because there are some distinct things.
35:18.14
Kathleen Godfrey
tax advantages, but I’ll never forget standing in line at the post office with my tax return and feeling very, very proud of myself.
35:26.43
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
35:27.93
Kathleen Godfrey
And I never looked back from there. You know, but it took me like i when I told you my learning curve was long and steep. It took me three years. If I had worked for a major company or I had, you know, any of that kind of corporate backing,
35:45.78
Kathleen Godfrey
That would have never happened. I would have maybe my first year would have been difficult, but it it did take me a longer time.
35:55.77
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s, I think it’s it’s interesting because it does take some of us a longer time to kind of get to where we’re meant to be.
36:07.53
Lorie Jones
But we do tend to end up where we’re meant to be if we stay on the path and believe in ourselves and and follow some of the the things that, you know, you find mentors, you find coaching, you you you try and gain as much knowledge as you can around what you want to do.
36:13.41
Kathleen Godfrey
Mm-hmm.
36:25.59
Lorie Jones
We do tend to find ourself where we’re meant to be, but but sometimes it takes us a little bit longer.
36:26.14
Kathleen Godfrey
Right.
36:34.58
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah.
36:34.76
Lorie Jones
I’m not sure that’s all bad.
36:35.38
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah.
36:38.62
Kathleen Godfrey
I mean, I burned through a lot of savings. It’s, you know, but, you know, once I figured out how to get to the other side, there was no turning back.
36:48.34
Lorie Jones
love that you’re like, I’ll show her.
36:51.64
Kathleen Godfrey
I’m telling you, it was like she lit a fire under me. And I was insulted and and she did apologize. She said, i I probably shouldn’t have been so harsh. I said, no, if you had sugarcoated it, I might not have heard it.
37:07.90
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah, that’s so interesting.
37:09.50
Kathleen Godfrey
So.
37:11.64
Lorie Jones
What about unique challenges because you were a woman? I’m sure you faced some. Tell us a little bit about that.
37:18.50
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, there’s a lot of. sexism that’s baked right into the financial industry. Um, I think the,
37:25.98
Lorie Jones
Mm hmm. Give me an example. Like what, like, I know where I see it sometimes. But what are you
37:34.62
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, I mentioned that I got very involved with WIFS in the beginning and we decided there was ah a core group of us, like five or six of us, women who worked in different for different companies and we wanted to get a local sponsor and you know to help us with overhead and you know recruiting members. and And we went to a general agency, a brokerage general agency and the second in command, the executive vice president said, well, why don’t you just have a bake sale?
38:20.09
Kathleen Godfrey
And I thought, wow. Wow. I mean, I was, it took a lot of, um it took a lot for me to not say what I was thinking.
38:23.51
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
38:33.61
Kathleen Godfrey
um But yeah, um there, like for instance, um when you open a joint account, the default is that the man’s name comes first.
38:50.97
Kathleen Godfrey
If you use a lot of financial planning software, the default is it’s the husband is the primary breadwinner. um And so a lot of things are set up that way. and And when you do it differently, sometimes, ah even on a tax return, it’s assumed that the husband’s name is going to come first. It’s just little things that are…
39:21.82
Kathleen Godfrey
insidious in in the world we live in And I’m hoping in my lifetime that I’ll see that flipped. It is starting to change a little bit, but yeah, they the the idea of a woman ah being successful, wealthy,
39:45.94
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
39:46.52
Kathleen Godfrey
um you know, who’s intelligent. And oh my God, she doesn’t have a man in her life. She doesn’t have a spouse. I mean, it it’s not something that a lot of men can relate to.
40:01.72
Kathleen Godfrey
And those are my clients. successful women who may or may not have a spouse. Most of them are the primary breadwinners.
40:13.53
Kathleen Godfrey
And they know about money and they make good decisions and they have agency.
40:19.83
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
40:20.50
Kathleen Godfrey
in their lives and that’s what you know they have dignity and freedom because they have money and they understand how it works and they’re making good decisions for themselves and their families.
40:36.40
Lorie Jones
Yeah. I love that because I love the way that you you phrased and looked at that is like they’re able to make good decisions for themselves and their families because they’ve got good information. um i feel like like the past has been a series of whether by design, whether by choice or by design, we’ve kind of been kept as women have kind of been kept out of um financial education.
41:03.96
Lorie Jones
You know, I’ve
41:05.06
Kathleen Godfrey
Oh, absolutely. Listen, and in my lifetime, when I was much younger, um women, a lot of women, when they went to college, it was to meet their future husbands.
41:18.00
Kathleen Godfrey
You know, it was just expected that you would get married and start a family.
41:18.11
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
41:22.16
Kathleen Godfrey
And, you know, look at how far we’ve come. Look at how, you know, and then you could also on the on the other side of that, you could say, look at how far we still have to go.
41:36.09
Kathleen Godfrey
um You know, when you look at, you know, what’s going on in the headlines now, um what happens when men accumulate a lot of wealth and how they protect themselves and protect each other from, you know, terrible things they are involved in.
41:53.74
Lorie Jones
you
41:58.39
Kathleen Godfrey
i don’t know, like one of the proudest things that 25 years ago, once I crossed over to being profitable, I decided to donate at least 10% of my annual profit that my company has at the end of the year to nonprofit organizations that are serving women and children. And 25 years have gone by and we’ve donated over $2 million dollars
42:30.68
Lorie Jones
Wow.
42:31.42
Kathleen Godfrey
My little company, my little company with, you know, you know it that’s mind blowing to me.
42:33.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
42:38.95
Kathleen Godfrey
And I’m really proud of that. And i tell people all the time, there is absolutely positively no downside to generosity.
42:49.28
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
42:49.39
Kathleen Godfrey
There’s none. And if I can do it, why aren’t bigger companies doing it?
42:56.39
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Well, and it also shows kind of like you give what you give a woman a successful business, don’t give, but she earns a successful business with um discretionary funds to spend and you spend them in ways that improve and society, you know, women and children throughout society. Like, like imagine if more women became successful where they might spend their money
43:30.79
Kathleen Godfrey
Mm-hmm.
43:31.58
Lorie Jones
And the good they might do.
43:31.96
Kathleen Godfrey
Exactly.
43:33.55
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
43:34.68
Kathleen Godfrey
Exactly. um i know they wouldn’t be.
43:40.73
Kathleen Godfrey
i don’t want to go down that road. um You know, but it it is tricky when you’re a woman. You know, one of the things that I found difficult it was, you know, not having a spouse at home and not having support at home.
43:58.14
Kathleen Godfrey
You know, I was doing it all. And You know, it it, child care. I mean, I would bring my daughters to the office frequently and, uh, you know, they kind of grew up in the business.
44:07.82
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
44:13.09
Kathleen Godfrey
Um, and both of them are successful entrepreneurs in their own right.
44:17.37
Lorie Jones
yeah What an example too. Yeah, that that’s something else that I found through research on women and and business and entrepreneurship and finance and all that sort of stuff that I love to delve into is that is that you need an example of someone being successful. So what an example you’ve provided for your own daughters and for those who are in the financial services industry. ah you know When I started out, I I had no direct
44:49.40
Lorie Jones
um examples of women who were being successful financial advisors. I thought that women worked in the office and the men were the financial advisors.
44:58.04
Kathleen Godfrey
Right, right.
45:01.14
Lorie Jones
I thought that’s what happened.
45:01.30
Kathleen Godfrey
Right. Mm-hmm.
45:02.34
Lorie Jones
And and so i love that there there are all these examples now of women doing these things that I think are so important.
45:12.06
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah, yeah, it’s very encouraging. And I really hope that instead of 15 to 20% of financial advisors being women, that we’re going to be closer to 50%. It’s a great career.
45:31.79
Kathleen Godfrey
it’s It’s just an amazing career and gratifying on so many levels.
45:38.58
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. It makes you feel good about yourself and your contribution to the world and the contribution to women who then take those, you know, that freedom and dignity that they found in in taking charge of their finances and share it with those around them.
45:43.08
Kathleen Godfrey
Oh, absolutely.
45:57.66
Lorie Jones
through, you know, different charitable organizations, so on and so forth. Yeah, I think it’s a ah great big circle, which is is really rewarding. i i’ve i feel you, Kathleen, that is exactly the way I feel.
46:13.26
Lorie Jones
but
46:14.04
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah, yeah.
46:15.51
Lorie Jones
What is the thing you are most proud of, Kathleen?
46:20.06
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, I’m still here. ah i defied the odds and I’m still here. i think, you know, the that our philanthropy is what I’m most proud of, though.
46:33.85
Kathleen Godfrey
And, you know, it again,
46:39.03
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
46:39.51
Kathleen Godfrey
When I see my logo on all of these not-for-profits websites and the the kudos that I get, it it it feels good. And it’s opened doors for me.
46:54.62
Kathleen Godfrey
i a lot of people know who I am. um and’m Not that I’m famous or anything, but you know i I call it making deposits to the bank of good karma.
47:07.80
Kathleen Godfrey
And I’ve got a ah nice hefty bank account in the bank of good karma. Yeah.
47:16.05
Lorie Jones
I love that. I love that. Any advice for a young lady who’s just kind of starting down this path that you’re successful at that can help her be successful like you? Is there something you would tell her?
47:27.42
Kathleen Godfrey
Oh, absolutely. First of all, get as much training as you can. Learn as much as you can. Network with other women.
47:40.12
Kathleen Godfrey
in the financial industry and outside of the financial industry. um You know, build yourself a little village, you know, that saying it takes a village, make a village for yourself. Seek out a mentor, learn the rules of the game, okay?
47:58.81
Kathleen Godfrey
And just remember that the company that you work for, if you work for a ah company, isn’t always gonna have your best interest.
48:09.62
Kathleen Godfrey
You’re working for them. um You’re bringing in revenue for them.
48:17.37
Kathleen Godfrey
If you’ve got the gumption, strike out on your own. You know, there’s nothing like knowing that it’s it’s yours. Everything is yours.
48:28.57
Kathleen Godfrey
You know, the good and the bad. Okay.
48:30.69
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
48:30.81
Kathleen Godfrey
i um um But, you know, learn the rules of the game. network and you know find your tribe find your village and reciprocate okay reciprocate give before you expect to get um you know be there for other women and it because it does go you know that saying what goes around comes around is really true it you know
48:46.58
Lorie Jones
well
49:06.10
Kathleen Godfrey
Some of the, some of the best people I know, I met through um, through other organizations. Um, you just, you gotta give, and I promise that you will receive.
49:24.23
Kathleen Godfrey
Cause that’s the way the world works.
49:26.71
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. And i I love the idea of women helping women to, you know, just kind of helping them grow, helping them move forward.
49:34.27
Kathleen Godfrey
Mm-hmm.
49:35.11
Lorie Jones
Obviously, i love it. That’s what my whole podcast is about. So…
49:39.17
Kathleen Godfrey
fade That’s right. right. And, you know, just trust your gut, trust in yourself. You know a lot more than you think you do. And with a lot of women, there’s there’s a hesitation to take action. Well, I got to wait until I’m ready. got to wait until I know more. I have to wait until whatever. And, you know, sometimes you just got to take that leap of faith and the net will appear.
50:08.22
Kathleen Godfrey
It did for me.
50:11.29
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And it was a, that was a scary step to take, but so glad that you were able to take it.
50:15.16
Kathleen Godfrey
oh my goodness. Thank you. Yeah, me too. Me too. I know those early days. know. I got through them.
50:27.90
Kathleen Godfrey
But what’s what’s that saying?
50:27.93
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
50:29.10
Kathleen Godfrey
What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. so
50:32.09
Lorie Jones
yeah Yeah, there are days where I’m like, well, it hasn’t killed me yet, so
50:37.72
Kathleen Godfrey
Yeah, absolutely.
50:40.28
Lorie Jones
Well, thank you.
50:40.54
Kathleen Godfrey
And you never you never know who you’re inspiring.
50:44.41
Lorie Jones
Oh, that’s really true.
50:44.82
Kathleen Godfrey
No.
50:46.36
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
50:46.46
Kathleen Godfrey
You just never know. And I actually had so ah a younger woman approach me maybe a year or two ago, and i was at a conference and she knew who I was.
51:00.09
Kathleen Godfrey
And she said, you know, you’re you’re really inspired me to get into this business.
51:00.07
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
51:05.58
Kathleen Godfrey
And i was like, wow. Thank you.
51:08.22
Lorie Jones
yeah
51:08.32
Kathleen Godfrey
That, it was so, it was heartfelt and it, it was, it really made my day.
51:15.19
Lorie Jones
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that that. And you don’t know how far or wide your voice goes and who’s going to hear it.
51:24.18
Kathleen Godfrey
who
51:26.04
Lorie Jones
um
51:26.39
Kathleen Godfrey
Right.
51:27.38
Lorie Jones
So I do think it’s important to to live what you believe and kind of let your voice be heard. um
51:35.67
Kathleen Godfrey
Yes.
51:36.34
Lorie Jones
You just never know what’s going to happen just from that one small act.
51:39.01
Kathleen Godfrey
Yes. That’s right. Exactly.
51:44.25
Lorie Jones
So if I have a young woman who wants to ask questions or um ask, you know, find out, talk with you a little bit more about how you did this, how does she get in touch with you?
51:57.05
Kathleen Godfrey
Well, she should connect with me on LinkedIn and send me a message. And I would be very thrilled to work, to reach out to, to that person.
52:02.30
Lorie Jones
Perfect.
52:08.62
Lorie Jones
Oh, thank you.
52:09.02
Kathleen Godfrey
and kind of give them some direction.
52:09.16
Lorie Jones
Thank you, Kathy.
52:11.34
Kathleen Godfrey
You’re welcome.
52:13.30
Lorie Jones
Thank you so much for your time today. i really appreciate it.
52:17.10
Kathleen Godfrey
It’s been a pleasure. i really enjoyed this.