In this empowering episode, host Lorie Jones welcomes the magnetic Neen James, a celebrated client experience expert and author with an unbreakable spirit. You will be captivated as Neen recounts her remarkable leap from the boardrooms of Australia’s toughest industries to building her own thriving business.
Neen reveals the strategic mindset that propelled her rapid career growth and shares why being your own publicist is a must for women determined to make their mark. She challenges the traditional wisdom on whose advice to value and highlights the power of both authenticity and preparation in male-dominated spaces. Her stories of embracing resilience, seeking out stellar mentors, and turning challenges into assets offer the inspiration every ambitious woman craves.
Thoughtful, actionable, and packed with energy, this episode is a must-listen if you’re ready to shape your destiny with confidence and clarity.
Show Highlights:
- Authors Neen James recommends having “brain crushes” on. [04:29]
- Learn a pro tip for career evolution in 90-day cycles. [05:55]
- The power of confidence, communication, and competence. [09:51]
- Why women should become their own publicists. [13:10]
- Is investing in coaching a nonnegotiable for growth? [16:28]
- How to select which advice to take with self-awareness. [18:06]
- The role of self-assurance and equality in fearlessness. [31:02]
- Lessons on bending stereotypes with grace and expertise. [34:04]
- Capturing recognition beyond credentials and trophies. [37:38]
- Encouragement and advice for early-career women. [43:03]
To connect with Neen James, go to her website https://neenjames.com/, or find her on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/neenjames/.
To get Exceptional Experiences by Neen James on Amazon, go to https://www.amazon.com/Exceptional-Experiences-Luxury-Elevate-Business/dp/1774586258/ref=sr_1_1.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
If you enjoyed this episode, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review!
For more information about Lorie Jones, go to https://fearlessfinancialadvisors.com/fearless-females.
00:01.17
Lorie Jones
Good morning, fearless females. Today, i have got a real treat for you. We’re talking with Neen James. She’s a client experience expert, and she just comes with so much energy.
00:13.02
Lorie Jones
And I love what she’s doing. i love her her ethos and philosophy that she’s putting out there in the world. It’s just so uplifting. I think we’re going to have a great discussion. Thank you so much, Neen, for joining us today.
00:25.85
Neen
Are you kidding? It’s my privilege to serve what you’re doing in the world for young women is phenomenal and I’m so honored to be here.
00:34.88
Lorie Jones
Well, my first question is my favorite and maybe yours too as an author. What is, I’m a reader and what is your favorite book?
00:43.80
Neen
You know, I think that’s like asking a parent what’s their favorite child. The challenge I have with this question, Laurie, is that there are so many books, but maybe I could give you my two favorite authors.
00:47.55
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
00:53.85
Neen
Would that be okay?
00:54.98
Lorie Jones
yeah
00:55.48
Neen
So I know that Brene Brown has come up several times when you’ve asked your guests. And so it doesn’t really matter what she writes. I’m a fangirl. She’s my girl crush. Like, I love her brain.
01:07.92
Neen
i think i just finished, at the time of recording, ah Strong Ground. It’s her latest book and hands down my favorite of all of the ones she’s written.
01:18.64
Neen
The second author that I would highlight for people is anything that Adam Grant writes. I love his brain as well. I definitely have a crush on his brain. And I think my favorite of all of his books would be Think Again. So for people listening, if you read anything by Brene Brown or anything by Adam Grant, you’re absolutely in good company.
01:37.81
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. I’ve got an Adam Grant one open right now. I think it’s Give and Take is what I’m reading.
01:42.42
Neen
Oh, that’s a good one too. o that’s a good one.
01:44.02
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
01:45.18
Neen
Yeah.
01:45.28
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And I like Brene Brown too. So i I didn’t know she had something new out. So now
01:49.83
Neen
Brand new, literally just last week.
01:53.94
Lorie Jones
you’ve ah you’ve increased my reading list by like four books right now.
01:58.03
Neen
Apologies in advance.
02:01.84
Lorie Jones
So tell me a little bit about your journey. mean, tell me how you decided to be what you are how you got where you’re at, kind of what you do now. Just tell me a little bit about you.
02:11.65
Neen
I grew up in corporate business in Australia. If you’re listening to this, it’s definitely not an American accent and I Understand I sound like I’m five. To anyone who is listening, you need to add another 50 years and you’ll be closer to where I’m at.
02:24.26
Neen
But I grew up in corporate business and I worked in retail, banking, telecommunications, and the oil industry. And Laurie, there were not a lot of chicks in oil when I was there. um As a client experience expert, I’m obsessed with this whole idea of how do you create more significant moments for people so they feel seen, heard, and valued. And if you track my career, look at all the positions I’ve had,
02:48.00
Neen
my career, I moved really quickly. So I had this corporate strategy. i used to say, okay it’s going to take me three months to learn a job, six months to master it, nine months to find and train my successor. And then within 12 months, I’ll be promoted.
03:03.77
Neen
And if you track my career, my corporate career, especially, I moved on average every 10 months. And I share that because I’ve always been someone who is looking to see Who can I learn from? How can I teach others?
03:16.10
Neen
And then replicate that so that I could move on to the next thing. When I became an entrepreneur and left my corporate career, I have pretty much applied a very similar strategy in that I think in 90 day cycles. So my journey, if you look at product development, if all the things that I do, i tend to think in projects. So I have a very project mentality But goodness me, I’ve had my own company for over 20 years now. And what I do now is i really run my practice so that I have a profit center that is focused on the keynote speaking where I love either speaking in a ballroom to the top 100 performers or 1,000 all hands meeting.
03:55.30
Neen
But I love a boardroom. And so I do a lot of executive strategy as well. So tent you know I tend to work with the CEO and their team. And what I love about that work is having the opportunity to see the ripple effect across the organization. So if I’m not standing on a ballroom stage, I’m standing at the end of a board table and working with people.
04:15.29
Neen
And so those two places are the profit centers that I run in my practice. And then in my spare time, I love to write books. um And so as you know, Exceptional Experiences is my latest project that I’m really proud of. So my journey has always had this through line, Laurie. I was always the girl.
04:33.61
Neen
I noticed this when I was young. I noticed the people who got promoted got things done. So what I understood in my corporate life was if you could be productive, if you could get something done, and if you could talk about that, you would move ahead. So when I talk about that accelerated career that I had, especially in my younger days, it was because I noticed really quickly, okay, be the person who can get things done, talk about it.
04:58.89
Neen
and then teach others to do it. And so that’s, if you look at my career, I’ve published, I speak and I train and do workshops and I do executive coaching. So that through line of my career is still what I’m doing today. It’s just, i applied it in a corporate sense. And so my body’s, the body of work was my first book was secrets of super productivity. And then I wrote folding time where I said, you can’t you can’t manage time. You can manage your attention.
05:23.82
Neen
Then I wrote attention pays because I realized Well, attention, it’s really in intention that makes attention valuable. So attention is about connection. And then I wrote Exceptional Experiences.
05:34.66
Neen
And then it was like, well, it’s really luxury is really about human connection. So when when you’re listening to this and you look back on what you’ve already achieved in your career, regardless of where you are, you’ll probably see a through line of your own.
05:49.32
Lorie Jones
Oh, that’s really insightful too, to kind of think about how has how, because the things that you told me, you worked in oil, you worked in you know all these different areas, but you did the same thing in all of them.
06:04.70
Lorie Jones
You had that that same theme kind of running through each experience and there’s such diverse experiences. So how in the heck did you get from that to to where you are now? Like, how did you How did you realize that it wasn’t about the industry that you were working in? It was about the work that you were doing.
06:24.28
Neen
You know, i I was the kid who would, I would do the reading at Sunday school. I would volunteer to teach someone how to do something. I would learn something and then train others. So I learned very quickly that if you could stand and speak, if you could share with people, you could upskill them, you could inspire them, you could motivate them. I learned that very young in my career.
06:47.13
Neen
And so what I realized young in my career too was I was often the only female. I was often the youngest person at the table. And so I would always put my hand up. And what I noticed is if you could share with others, if you could articulate something and help them be better at their job or better as a leader, and I was really young and so young and naive really.
07:09.75
Neen
to know any different. And I’ve always walked into every room and assumed everyone wants to play with me. I’ve had this confidence that I’ve been able to bring, Laurie. So combine the competence, the confidence, the confidence, and this ah this willingness to communicate publicly, that served me really early. And so I always was doing the all-hands meeting or training or doing an update. And I remember ah one of my bosses, he would tap me and say, can you go do an update for the board? And I’d say, sure. And he’d say, in 10 minutes.
07:38.15
Neen
Like, So I was someone who could just think on her feet, who could prepare and who could articulate really well. Then someone in my corporate life said to me, you know, you should be a speaker.
07:50.18
Neen
And I remember looking at them like dumbfounded, like, can you make any money doing that? Like, that’s a thing. Like, that’s a career. So he invited me to the National Speakers Association of Australia.
08:01.95
Neen
And I remember walking into this room, Laurie, and seeing all these people and hearing this music. And I was like, oh my gosh, these people are just like me. And so what I had entered is this space I didn’t even know existed.
08:13.90
Neen
So as you’re listening to this, you may not even be in the career yet that you’re going to eventually be in. And so that started my love affair with the speaking industry. where people could be paid to speak at conferences, events, associations.
08:28.46
Neen
I didn’t even know that was a thing. I was speaking internally. i was training. I was doing board updates. I was always volunteering to lead a project. And so that level of confidence, competence, and that communication that I had had my co whole career, I just got that magnified.
08:43.68
Neen
So now it can be a room of 10 people or a thousand people. doesn’t really matter to me because I just kind of think, hey, we’re just having this chat. We’re just having this conversation. Sometimes there’s a lot of people in an arena. Sometimes as’s people are around a board table, but I love it to this day. I still love it. And so sometimes those things that you’re loving early in your career,
09:03.00
Neen
you don’t realize they could actually be incredible revenue sources for you later in your career too.
09:08.41
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. That’s a really good point. And i I just want to go back and touch on something that you said that I think is so important for young listeners especially, and that is um you were you were doing all those things, but you were talking about them.
09:22.50
Lorie Jones
You were putting emphasis. you were You were drawing attention to the fact that you’re doing them.
09:23.94
Neen
Yes.
09:27.35
Lorie Jones
And I know a lot of times as women, and we just are the silent support behind the behind the power or something like that. But, but you deliberate, tell me how you deliberately used your voice and and brought attention because I think it’s so important that you do.
09:35.91
Neen
Mm-hmm.
09:44.93
Neen
I think what women are guilty of, regardless of age, is they make an assumption that someone will notice the work they do. And they think if they do a good job, they’ll get promoted, they’ll get a pay rise, they’ll get the recognition. And I don’t believe that to be true because why I think that happens is people are so busy in their own head. They’re not necessarily looking at the contribution you make. Therefore, I’ve always believed you need to be your own publicist.
10:09.24
Neen
You need to be out in the world sharing what you’re good at. So for example, Every Friday in my corporate life, I would send my boss five bullet points of five great things the team and I achieved that week.
10:21.52
Neen
So I was proactively communicating my value. Now, I didn’t care if my boss read them. I didn’t care if they did anything with them. But when my performance review became due, I would confidently walk into that performance review with 52 weeks of fabulous saying, here’s all the things I’ve told you that I’m really good at.
10:39.05
Neen
Here’s the testimonials from clients. Here’s the nice emails that people have written about me. And believe me, I was always creating a warm and fuzzies file. Meaning anytime someone said something great, anytime someone wrote a nice thing, I put it in my warm and fuzzies file so that I could pull that out of my performance review. So I learned this system very young. I created the system.
10:57.44
Neen
I had this incredible boss. Her name was Barbara. I remember interviewing for a job with Barbara and it was five levels above where I was now. And Lord knows why she even gave me the interview. I was so young and stupid and didn’t know differently.
11:10.71
Neen
But I remember walking into her office like, oh my gosh, so full of myself. Like, I got this, I can do this. And I remember Barbara looking at me and she said this, Neen, tell me three things you’re good at.
11:24.23
Neen
Don’t blink, don’t look away.
11:28.08
Neen
And it stuck with me. Now, I didn’t get the job she was recruiting for, but she ended up giving me a job, bless her, because under her mentorship, I grew exponentially. But that has stuck with me. And as women, we need to know three things we’re good at. Don’t blink. Don’t look away.
11:44.30
Neen
In the same way you want to ask for a pay rise, know what you’re worth.
11:44.41
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
11:47.93
Neen
Don’t blink. Don’t look away. And I have stuck with that advice and I’ve given that advice to so many young leaders. And we need to know three things we’re good at. So if you run into your boss in the hallway, you can tell them in the elevator, in a presentation, in an email.
12:03.75
Neen
And it’s not about boasting. It’s about truly being your own publicist so you can articulate your value in the world.
12:13.68
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that you said that we’re probably all kind of thinking of ourselves most of the time. And so you don’t pay attention.
12:24.70
Lorie Jones
um You do have to raise your voice a little bit. You do have to be out there a little bit. You do have to be your own publicist or else no one’s going to notice.
12:31.10
Neen
You do.
12:32.96
Lorie Jones
And I love that.
12:33.34
Neen
Especially now where the world is so distracted by all of the messaging, the news, social media, AI, there are so many distractions, so many people competing for our attention. We have to get really, really laser focused on how we can cut through that clutter, not just grab someone’s attention, but keep
12:53.88
Lorie Jones
So tell what is the best investment you’ve made over ah in yourself over this career and this journey that you’ve had? Is there something that you can say, oh my gosh, I’m so glad I did that?
13:05.79
Neen
Yeah, it would be 100% coaching. And I have always had a coach in my life, whether it is a personal trainer for my health, whether it is a business coach for the work that I do, whether it is a mentor who can teach me something in particular.
13:21.36
Neen
But coaching will be one of the best investments you ever make in yourself. Because if you look at high performance athletes, there’s no way they’d achieve the things that they do without a coach. And yet leaders don’t always see the need for them to have a coach.
13:34.70
Neen
So when I was young in my career, I would hire a stylist to help me put my wardrobe together, a speech coach to make sure of my delivery on stage. And to this day, I have a keynote director, Mike Ganino, who directs all my keynotes.
13:47.89
Neen
I have a business coach, Pam Slim, who I would never be able to achieve the results I do without her. have a fitness coach in Jennifer Jacobs who meets with me virtually twice a week. I am constantly surrounding myself by people who are great at what they do.
14:02.96
Neen
And I think that’s a good investment. When you invest in yourself, the returns are phenomenal.
14:08.61
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I love that. um You do You have to find people that can find those things in you that you maybe don’t see in yourself or you don’t know are are going to you know grow into something that’s really good.
14:21.61
Lorie Jones
And cheerleader, a little bit of a cheerleader too, right?
14:26.58
Neen
Yeah, for sure. We all need that.
14:29.03
Lorie Jones
yeah So tell me, um what is the worst advice someone gave you? Nina, have you ever gotten really bad advice? and And what was it? And did you take it? I am always so curious as to whether you’ve taken it or not and what you learned.
14:47.14
Neen
When I decided to leave, when I was deciding about my career, we both know I was a corporate girl and I moved into speaking full time. Every single person told me I would need voice coaching.
15:00.15
Neen
Every single person, including the head of the National Speakers Association said, you’ll never make money out of that voice. You’re going to need to change your voice. You’re going to need to drop your voice. No one will take you seriously with that voice.
15:11.72
Neen
Every person. They said, if you want to make money, you’re going to have to get voice coaching.
15:17.03
Lorie Jones
Thank
15:17.19
Neen
I had one mentor. His name is Matt Church. He became my dear friend and my business partner eventually. And he said, no, no. No voice coaching for you.
15:27.57
Neen
That is authentic. That is you. You don’t want to act a certain way. You want to be someone and that is yourself. So he was the person I eventually listened to. And it’s heart-wrenching for people to really criticize your identity. Like your voice, it’s not like, um,
15:48.06
Neen
I had to work really hard because I also have an accent. Okay. So it’s even more challenging when I move from Australia to America. But because of Matt, I was like, you know what? He’s right. It would be harder work for me to show up as someone I’m not and focus on my voice.
16:04.75
Neen
So what I do, Laurie, here’s how I bridge the gap.
16:08.38
Lorie Jones
Thank you.
16:08.73
Neen
I am someone who doesn’t have filler words in my language. I’m very deliberate about my thoughts. I am very well read. i try to be well researched. I try to be the most prepared person in the room. I always think about the 10 questions any audience could ask me, any leader could ever ask me in a coaching session, in a presentation.
16:27.77
Neen
So I’ve always prided myself on being well prepared. And… I learned that your voice is extension of who you are.
16:37.91
Neen
can change the vocal, um, the variety, the the speed at which i I am going to deliver a message. But my voice is my voice and it is unique. And so what I do is within the first two minutes of every speech, every engagement, I make fun of my voice, my height, my accent. I do it quickly. We get it off the table and then people forget about it. And as people are listening to this, now you’re thinking, oh yeah, haven’t, I’ve got used to her voice, right?
17:04.67
Neen
Every book that I’ve written, I’ve narrated it myself. It’s been a request from my publisher. So Sometimes there are things you get criticized for, you get advice on, and people think that they mean well. They really, their intentions, I believe, truly are well-meaning, but you have to trust yourself.
17:20.74
Neen
And my internal voice said, no, no, this is the voice that you have been gifted. This is the voice in the world. And believe me, it is unique. And you know so funny? i get paid for this voice. So go figure.
17:33.82
Neen
Yeah.
17:34.89
Lorie Jones
I like that. that’s so That’s something that’s come up kind of often in my podcast is just this idea of authenticity.
17:42.30
Neen
a
17:42.57
Lorie Jones
And i’ve I’ve kind of taken a deep dive into it and sort of thought about, well, how do you How do you become your authentic self? How do you how do you stand up for the fact that you’re different in a world that is telling you you need to be the same as everybody else? You need to do the things that everyone else has done and they are successful. So like you said, that well-meaning kind of they’re they’re successful. So they’re trying to help you be successful or, you know, but they but they’re not you.
18:16.14
Neen
Yeah, I have a unique approach to feedback, which I’ve used my whole career. And so, you know, when someone comes up to you, Laurie, and they say, can I give you some feedback, right?
18:26.74
Neen
And then they just start vomiting up whatever they’re thinking, right? As soon as someone says that to me, I say, no, not today.
18:34.73
Neen
And I just stop them, even if they start talking, because people are mortified that you said no, number one. But here’s what I learned very early in my career. It is a privilege to speak into my life. I am going to only solicit feedback from people who are qualified to give it, which means if I want to know how I am on my microphone, I’m going to ask the AV crew.
18:56.27
Neen
If I want to know how I am as a speaker, I’m going to ask another professional speaker. If I want to know how I am as a client, I’m going to ask the client who booked me, the meeting planner, the speakers bureau.
19:06.85
Neen
But what I’m not going to do is take some random piece of feedback from someone who might’ve got out of bed on the wrong side that day or didn’t like my outfit or doesn’t like my voice or doesn’t like my accent who feels like they want to give me feedback. So what I would suggest to people who are listening to this is when people say, hey, can I give you some feedback?
19:24.36
Neen
Unless they have permission to speak into your life and you value their opinion, you simply kindly say, no, not today. That’s it. I cut it off because I think what happens, Ori, is once again, people are well-meaning.
19:38.52
Neen
And when you’re young in your career, everyone has an opinion. And so, you know, I noticed this when someone’s pregnant, everyone feels like they need to tell the story of pregnancy. Or if someone has a disease or an illness, everyone feels the need to tell the story.
19:52.10
Neen
No, shut up. Stop talking. Just allow people to go through that experience. So if someone asks me, they say, hey, can you give me feedback, Neen? My question is always this. Laurie, do you want my feedback?
20:04.95
Neen
And they’re like, yeah, I just asked for it. And i I will follow up with this question. How would you like me to deliver my feedback? Because sometimes when people ask for feedback, they’re asking for praise and we need to be really careful in our careers of what they’re really asking for.
20:19.08
Neen
And sometimes because I’m a professional speaker, people will come up to me and they’ll say, Hey, how was my speech? And I say, well, I didn’t take any notes. I didn’t know you wanted me to give you feedback.
20:28.57
Lorie Jones
I love that.
20:28.83
Neen
So we need to just be careful about advice.
20:29.79
Lorie Jones
That is, yeah, I think that’s a really wise way of looking at it. Like um I had one woman put it like, I wouldn’t take advice from someone whose life I didn’t want to live.
20:43.62
Neen
Mmm, that’s good advice.
20:44.23
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And so I like the way that you put that, like you don’t take advice from people who aren’t expert in that arena in, in where they’re giving advice on because right, everybody has an opinion.
20:57.33
Neen
Yeah.
20:59.87
Neen
They do. And here’s the thing. Like, I have group, a very, very, very tiny group of besties, people I trust implicitly. If they told me I was acting like a lunatic, I would listen. If they told me I was wrong, I would listen, right? Because they have earned the right to speak into my life and they have a permission at any point. And I remember reaching out to my bestie today about something I was super concerned about.
21:21.50
Neen
And I said to him, am I insane? Is this way too vulnerable? Should I even be talking about this? Am I a lunatic? And him talking me off the ledge, because we all need those people as well, to say, no, no, you’re on track. This is right.
21:35.08
Neen
But him asking deeper questions. Why did you go there? Why did you think that? Why is this concerning you? And that’s the thing we need in our career. I wish I’d had that younger to have that level of trust with people. But people need to earn the right to give you advice. So please be careful who you take advice from.
21:53.77
Lorie Jones
Neen, what about a situation? i have these in my life where I’m like, oh my gosh, I’ve learned so much. If I could just go back and redo that situation, i think i I would do it so much better now. Is there something like that?
22:08.27
Neen
there’s about a million. And so for the sake of time, i will remember one thing that I was very young in my career. i was sitting in my boss’s office. We were on a teleconference with someone else. His name was Robin.
22:20.58
Neen
And I thought Robin was being a lunatic, but he was in another office and he was on a teleconference. So we were all sitting around my boss’s phone.
22:31.26
Neen
And i was young in my career and I was stupid. So let’s put that on the table. So I thought I’d hung up And then I said, what the hell is his problem?
22:42.80
Lorie Jones
Oops.
22:44.14
Neen
But I hadn’t hung up. And he said, Neen, I’m still here. And in that moment, I remember thinking to myself, that was number one, that was unkind to say something so out loud.
22:58.12
Neen
Two, it was stupid not to have checked whether someone had hung up again. And number three, who was I to even ask a question like that? And when he said, Nina, I’m still here, I said to him, Robin, I am so deeply sorry.
23:11.82
Neen
But seriously, like, tell me, like, what is the problem here?
23:13.09
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
23:15.36
Neen
We both laughed about it. I was young in my career. He was forgiving because he knew I was a young leader and I was being immature. But to this day, I will never, ever say something so awful out loud and I will always make sure the phone is hung up.
23:30.44
Neen
Right. So, but it what a, what a gift that he was so gracious to me. But what I’ve also done as a leader is I always say to myself, extend grace, extend grace. We should always extend grace.
23:41.88
Neen
Because he extended grace to me young in my career and I’ve always done the same thing. So if someone says something stupid to me or they react emotionally, I always think about Rama and I think, you know what, he gave you the second chance and he allowed you. And so thank goodness it was an early career mistake, but I, oh my gosh, I revisit that often.
24:01.21
Lorie Jones
Hmm. It’s, it’s such a gift when people are willing to give that grace, um, because we’re all human and we do all need it. Like ah I’ve made mistakes like that. And, and I, I, I love that the message you took away from that is, is turn around and pay it forward.
24:19.92
Neen
Isn’t
24:19.98
Lorie Jones
Right. Yeah. I like that. I think that’s really neat that, um, and I was just reading on LinkedIn the other day, And they had something about someone who had given them some grace, who had who had forgiven, who had shown them compassion.
24:35.06
Lorie Jones
And what an impactful event that was in their life and how it changed the trajectory of their career.
24:42.16
Neen
amazing?
24:42.27
Lorie Jones
So kindness, right? Kindness.
24:44.44
Neen
Yeah.
24:44.84
Lorie Jones
We’ll sit on.
24:45.26
Neen
Yes. Not random acts of kindness, deliberate, thoughtful acts of kindness. That’s what we need more. Systemized thoughtfulness in the world.
24:52.34
Lorie Jones
systemized thoughtfulness. I love that.
24:53.44
Neen
Yeah. I talk about that in the new book.
24:53.98
Lorie Jones
I’m going to write that down.
24:55.12
Neen
Systemized thoughtfulness is something I believe in to my core.
24:56.27
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
24:59.40
Lorie Jones
Yes. If you could high five yourself, if you could go back and go, oh, my gosh, I’m going to give my my past self a big high five for a financial decision that you made.
25:11.09
Lorie Jones
What would that be?
25:15.75
Neen
Really, really good question. i would say it was committing to my MBA. I was really young and probably had no right to do an MBA, ah but my ah my company was so generous and they were willing to fund I was selected to do it without an undergraduate degree as well. And so they were willing to fund the majority of it if I could also supplement that. And I am so grateful for that.
25:43.81
Neen
I think anytime you can invest in your own education, whether it’s a conference, a networking event, a book that you’re going to read, you are the best investment in yourself, but it would definitely be my MBA.
25:55.94
Lorie Jones
I like that. Education it such an important part, learning and growth and learning. who do i mean do you even think you can become who you’re meant to be without that kind of learning opportunity?
26:10.40
Neen
I am a massive reader. You and I have both talked about our love of books, but I think too, like even the people who are listening to this podcast, you’re investing your time. Sometimes we have time, sometimes we have money.
26:22.35
Neen
We don’t always have them both at the same time. So when you’re new in your career, you may not have the resources financially that you are looking for. So I would be soliciting and and educating yourself on free resources, you know, but get your books from the library, download the podcast, like do whatever you can to accelerate your development, leverage those opportunities, get mentoring where there’s not an exchange of finances until you’re in a financial position where you can also then be investing at a different level, but never forget where you came from.
26:52.34
Neen
So I’m constantly mentoring. I’m always giving away books. If a, if a friend authors a book, I’ll buy 25 copies and then I’ll send them out into the world. So I think what will happen is as you go through your career, you can never invest enough in education, time or money.
27:07.25
Neen
Sometimes you have more of one than the other. So leverage what you have. If you don’t have the money, but you have the time on your hands, listen to the podcast, volunteer, serve on committees, serve on boards so that you can be exposed to people who you can learn from.
27:22.10
Neen
And then when you are in a more established position, give that back as much as you generously can.
27:27.44
Lorie Jones
Hmm. Yes. A hundred percent. I am behind that. Give back what you have been given because as you look through your journey, there are so many people that have helped you along your way.
27:38.18
Lorie Jones
There just always are every journey.
27:38.28
Neen
Yeah. For sure.
27:41.06
Lorie Jones
Yeah. And paying that back is an act of service and kindness again. yeah
27:46.46
Neen
Just my thoughtfulness.
27:49.10
Lorie Jones
um what’s, mean, did anything scare you when you started on this journey? You are so bright and just out there and brave and bold. i Did anything scare you? And if it did, does it still scare you?
28:03.91
Neen
I think, and I don’t know if it’s being Australian, but I’m fearless. Like there’s not an animal that scares me. There’s not a situation that scares me. Like i and that’s not an arrogant thing. I just am quite fearless and I’m fiercely independent. I’m the oldest of five.
28:17.59
Neen
And so I think that Australian spirit combined with that confidence that I have, but you know, what is really interesting is I was just talking to my dear friend about this on the weekend. I am in the process of launching my book, Exceptional Experiences at the time of recording.
28:31.72
Neen
And there’s this one event that is being hosted. And my fear, Laurie, as an adult, 55 years old, is what if nobody shows up?
28:40.13
Lorie Jones
Oh, yeah.
28:40.64
Neen
right? So like, okay, because it’s a ticketed event. So people have to like pay money because they’re going to get the book and some champagne, of course, because I talk about champagne moments in the book. And you know, what she and I were joking about eventually was, okay, so it’ll be my bestie and me sitting at the bar and it’ll be great. Like, it’ll be fun.
28:58.18
Neen
But I think so our fears are rooted in the weirdest things and it’s possibly something for a therapist to unpack. But I think fears show up in weird places. And so I’ve been the person who can always act as the hostess at any event. I will get people talking.
29:14.84
Neen
i will make them feel welcome. I love to host events. And so then I think this this fear that I have is like, oh, what if like, what if nobody decides to show up? And then I realize, well, my value is not attached to how many people are in the room.
29:28.50
Neen
Like even if it is just my best friend and I having champagne celebrating my new book. Yeah, great. But yeah, that’s like a legit, it was, is it a fear? I don’t know. Is it an insecurity? I don’t know. But I think wherever you are in your journey, pay attention to those fears because they’re rooted in something, right?
29:44.79
Neen
ah But when I look at my career, I really was so bold and so confident and ridiculously so. And I still am to this day. I’m never impressed by anyone or anything that’s also Australian.
29:56.68
Neen
So I will walk up to anyone. I will introduce myself to anyone. I don’t care what their title is. I don’t they’re celebrity or not. Obviously, I have the privilege of working in an industry where I get to meet some insanely cool people in the world.
30:07.83
Neen
But I figure here’s the thing. They put their trash out at night just like I do. Same, same. So I’m very much about equality. That’s where I think the confidence comes from as well.
30:18.67
Lorie Jones
Yeah, I like that. it it You do tend to exude this confidence. and I was really interested in whether or not you were ever scared. but But I think it’s something that’s really interesting that you said there is like you thought about the worst case.
30:32.53
Lorie Jones
Like, what’s the worst case? Me and my bestie sitting at the bar, right?
30:35.49
Neen
and but
30:35.75
Lorie Jones
Yeah,
30:36.24
Neen
but Not a bad way to spend a night if that’s what happens, right?
30:38.97
Lorie Jones
yeah, yeah. yeah And I have had to to come to terms with some of that. Like, what if I throw an event and no one comes and I’m like, okay, well, the worst that happens is maybe, you know, two or three people show up and then they get a very curated, um you know, very individualized sort of event.
30:46.16
Neen
Yeah.
30:57.65
Neen
Let’s call it customized and personalized. Let’s split it for the positive.
30:59.75
Lorie Jones
Yes. Yeah.
31:00.82
Neen
I love it. yeah
31:02.97
Lorie Jones
so So what about through your career? Did you face any unique challenges because you were a woman?
31:10.53
Neen
Oh my gosh. Well, let’s just add a couple of things to being a woman. I’m four, 10 and a half. I have a high pitched voice and I have very big assets.
31:20.63
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
31:20.74
Neen
So when I think about the packaging and a blonde hair, so let’s just put all that packaging together. So the moment you look at me, I don’t look like someone who’s coaching fortune 500 CEOs.
31:33.32
Neen
And so when I think about the fact that I sound young, I looked young my whole career, um and I’m little, that packaging definitely did not help advance my career.
31:46.81
Neen
If anything, they were the things I had to overcome and I had to be able to address. So maybe that extra confidence is what allowed me to have the confidence to command a room, to command a board table,
31:59.03
Neen
I will never forget, i remember I was very young in a career and I was, it was a new project, was a new initiative. It was massive in this bank. I was the youngest bank manager and 33,000 employees. So I was leading this initiative.
32:12.91
Neen
And I remember walking into the room of these really old white men, and that was the industry that I had chosen to be in. And I remember one of them saying to me, oh honey, can you get me a coffee? absolutely.
32:24.21
Neen
It was a different time. So I went out and then they, then I walked back in and I did that and I smiled sweetly. And then they said, Oh, are you here to take the minutes? And my boss at the time, the most senior exec at the bank said, I’d like you all to meet Neen James. Neen is actually spearheading this initiative. And I just watched this room of people like gulp because I’d been underestimated I, you know,
32:49.72
Neen
But i I was kind to this person who asked for their coffee.
32:49.90
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
32:52.08
Neen
i was kind to the person who asked about the minutes because there were assumptions made because of my look and my youth that I was not going to be the person commanding that room. And so what I think we need to do in these situations as women is be very gracious, extend grace, but never be walked over, you know, never feel a need to appease everyone. But I think in making that person’s coffee, I was also making a point.
33:16.97
Neen
And so I think what we need to do is, look, it was a long time ago. and you know, even to this day, like i always think to myself, underestimate me because that’ll be so fun for you.
33:27.75
Neen
you know what I mean? Like, just try me.
33:30.53
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
33:30.59
Neen
And that is not an arrogant thing. Please don’t misunderstand my comment. It’s just I get great satisfaction in when people look at the way that I am and sound and then they see the deliverable within the first few minutes and they’re like, huh.
33:45.32
Neen
She knows what she’s talking about. She’s got more experience in this. She’s a thought leader in this area. She’s well-researched at the only research study of its kind in the world, intellectualism mindset. So what I would say to young leaders is do what you need to do to be able to understand your own value and evidence and have support around that so that when you are put in the position where you can articulate your opinion or your advice,
34:10.89
Neen
that you’re doing it from a place of research and evidence and support, not just opinion.
34:16.07
Lorie Jones
Hmm. So you, so you get all of the learning, all of the research, all of the credentials, and you get, i am worth, um, uh, you know, I’m, I’m up here.
34:32.30
Lorie Jones
I’m worth this much. I, and you’re like, go ahead and underestimate me. You will see very quickly that, that I am the, I’ve got the confidence and the,
34:39.58
Neen
Yeah.
34:43.65
Lorie Jones
and the learning to back up the fact that that’s not who I am.
34:47.90
Neen
Yeah, I think too though, Laurie, one of the mistakes that I made was i would chase credentials. If there were letters of the alphabet you could collect, because I come from a very academic father and he had like seven or eight degrees or something. So he valued academia.
35:03.08
Neen
And so I would chase whatever the credentials were. If there was an industry, it gave away some letters, I’d want to collect them. And I, i I think that that’s a mistake. I think it’s important to have the credentials of the career that you’re in. If there’s a certification you can gather, by all means do it.
35:18.14
Neen
But I was looking for external validation, I think, throughout my career, even as an as an older person in my career too, by the way. so And I remember aspiring for this one accreditation and then looking at it and going,
35:30.51
Neen
that’s silly. You know, and I remember my bestie said to me, he was like, do you want the plastic trophy? Or do you want the fact that you’ve CEOs on speed dial who have you on speed dial in your cell phone, you literally have their contact, you know, cell phone numbers of these CEOs that we see on television. He was like, what recognition do you want? do you want the plastic trophy?
35:51.70
Neen
Or do you want the axis? And I was like, okay, you’re right. And so sometimes the world has these visions of things that show your success and we aspire to them. And believe me, everyone listening, I’ve aspired to them all.
36:05.25
Neen
And then sometimes you have to take a step back and go, huh, recognition will come to us in different ways.
36:10.28
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It may not be a credential or a diploma or something like that.
36:16.97
Neen
May not be.
36:18.22
Lorie Jones
Yeah.
36:18.63
Neen
Yeah.
36:19.34
Lorie Jones
Yeah. That’s interesting. I do. i i have like a lot of letters behind my name, and I do like the alphabet behind my name, but I i have seen myself be…
36:30.78
Lorie Jones
more confident in what I’m bringing to the table because I’m like, I’ve seen this, I’ve done this, I am good at this, and I don’t need a bunch of alphabet letters to tell you that I’m good at this.
36:37.25
Neen
huh Yeah.
36:42.67
Lorie Jones
I just am. Thank you.
36:43.93
Neen
But sometimes when you’re young in your career, that’s what people pay attention to. And so gather the alphabet, collect them, get whatever you need. But then there comes a point in your career where you’re like, huh,
36:54.70
Neen
I’ve got my version of, you know, 10,000 hours in this, you know, like I’ve been learning this lesson my whole life. So therefore, it does give me a bit of an advanced perspective in it, right?
37:01.28
Lorie Jones
yeah
37:05.94
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
37:06.08
Neen
And when someone starts to call you a thought leader, I remember when I was starting to be called a thought leader, i was like, oh, wow, that’s like, that’s a huge compliment in my line of work, right? And so also just pay attention to what labels people are giving to your knowledge, what evidence you’re showing up as. And so I think because I was little, because I sound like i was five, because I had blonde hair, like all of those things, I think I probably worked harder to prove to myself that I deserve to sit at the table.
37:35.22
Neen
And I had to prove a little bit harder to the people around me that I was worth paying attention to and listening to. And so regardless of where this finds you on your journey, it never hurts to be the most prepared person in the room. It never hurts to be the best dressed person in the room.
37:49.65
Neen
It never hurts to be the best rehearsed pro present presenter in the room. None of that ever hurts your career.
37:56.05
Lorie Jones
Yeah, yeah.
37:59.01
Lorie Jones
What, Neen, what is the thing you are most proud of?
38:07.58
Neen
It’s not work related. But the thing that I’m most proud of is when I ran my first marathon and what listeners need to understand is I had never run before in my life.
38:18.46
Neen
I didn’t run in school. I didn’t play team sports. If anything, I avoided sports. I volunteered to read to kids rather than actually do a sport. Like I am not, a my body is not athletic. I have assets other people don’t have.
38:29.95
Neen
And itis I got challenged to run and ah by a friend and I started running. I’d signed up for 5K within two weeks and I ran my first marathon within five months.
38:42.53
Lorie Jones
Oh, wow.
38:42.58
Neen
I do not recommend this strategy.
38:43.94
Lorie Jones
Mm-hmm.
38:44.56
Neen
It is insane. i had a running coach from day one. I like just about broke my body. But when I ran over that finish line, I remember my friend saying to me, for the rest of your life, you will compare everything to this marathon.
39:01.82
Neen
And he was right. Because now I say to myself, I ran a marathon for goodness sake, how hard can this possibly be? So I think that’s why I say it is probably what I am most proud of. I think my latest book, Exceptional Experiences, is my favorite book. It is the work I am most proud of. It is what I want in the world to help people feel seen, heard and valued.
39:22.08
Neen
So, but it was like running my own marathon, that book. Yeah.
39:28.34
Lorie Jones
they were They were congruent. to i yeah um I’ve actually run a marathon, one one marathon.
39:32.04
Neen
So much.
39:37.03
Lorie Jones
and I tried for, I think I trained for like a year and a half. and order to yeah Well, I ran some half.
39:44.95
Neen
Congratulations. It’s such a major accomplishment. And, you know, for anyone who is training or has attempted a marathon, the very fact that you even said to the world, I’m going to do that, you need to be proud of that because there is nothing like it in the world, the physical, mental.
40:01.81
Neen
I actually think a marathon is more mental than physical. That was my reality. That’s what I realized about myself. And yet I found it to be so therapeutic and I’m so proud of that. So, yeah, that’s what I’m most proud of.
40:12.17
Lorie Jones
I think that’s so great. Any advice for a young lady who’s just kind of starting down this path that you’re already so successful at? Is there any advice you’d give her to help her be successful like you?
40:26.19
Neen
I think success is defined by each of us really differently. So please don’t look for my success for you. that’s not That’s not going to translate. And don’t compare yourself to others.
40:37.35
Neen
What I would say, though, is I had said earlier to walk into every room and assume everyone wants to play with you. If you can take my level of confidence with you, even if sometimes you’re not feeling the most confident,
40:50.45
Neen
I would take that advice in. So just assume you deserve to sit at the table, lead the project, give the presentation, be the mentor, but in every situation, assume that you belong and assume that you are in the right place.
41:05.44
Lorie Jones
Oh, I love that idea. Because that idea of being, assuming that you belong there, that takes half the half the battle out of it. If you come into it with a viewpoint of, hey, this is this is what I was meant to do.
41:20.15
Lorie Jones
This is where I was meant to be.
41:20.74
Neen
Yes. Yes.
41:22.09
Lorie Jones
you could show up differently, can’t you?
41:24.53
Neen
Absolutely. Yes.
41:27.63
Lorie Jones
Neen, thank you so much for your time today. And thanks for just sharing your story and your journey and all the different things you’ve really given me a lot to think about. If I have a young lady who wants to get in touch with you and pick your brain, ask some questions, how does she do that?
41:42.27
Neen
The easiest way to track me down is always neanjames.com, my website. I am Facebook. Instagram every day so you can e follow my adventures on Instagram or reach out to me on LinkedIn. And if you do reach out on LinkedIn, please tell me it’s because of this podcast that we got to connect.
41:59.36
Lorie Jones
Perfect. Well, thank you so much for being on Fearless Females. And um I really appreciate your book. i actually am about, I’m a part of the way through it, but I have like five going at this time.
42:12.28
Lorie Jones
So
42:12.85
Neen
of Me too. i understand what you’re talking about there.
42:15.57
Lorie Jones
I will definitely finish it before the podcast comes out because I just love what you’ve said about these experiences and creating these special times. So thank you so much.
42:25.17
Neen
Thank you. Thank you for all the work you do in the world.